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I'm probably going to start putting more time into GGPO VSav so I don't plan on changing for a while. Skullgirls could provide some nice avy material, but that could be a ways off.Karsticles said:
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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT3| Self-Control Support Group
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This is ironic.SolarPowered said:
But what if the characters you are loyal to are top tier?
Real answer is yes and no. He lost his double jump which while regretful is not THAT huge of a nerf that it completely changes his overall game plan. The real major nerf is one to his tri-dash/air dash which just looks... bad. It's much slower and at a certain height he can't use normals.
Everything else about him is buffed though. He can dash cancel his air normals like Magneto and combined with his even faster flight cancel he can do much more practical fly/dash combos. His cr.H is special cancellable which allows him to cover a lot of spaces on the screen with projectiles (Cr.H -> Repulsor or Unibeam... or just in general utility in combos). Repulsor Blast/Spread are both probably faster but Repulsor spread causes hard knockdown. Unibeam is just faster all around even as an assist. His ground dash is also better in distance covered and cancellability.
He needs more time in the lab to figure out where he stands. There might be something we are missing on his tri-dash.
I tend to have more trouble with bad characters than I do with good characters. It's one of those 'I should be winning this based on the matchup', and then I don't.smurfx said:
Honestly, Taskmaster is my go to for Tron since Shield Skills just destroys her jump in options, and arrows just out zone her. Usually, though, I try to play Spencer and grapple her out of it(which is a hit and miss), or Dante where I try to just use anti-air standing M on her way down. That gets me blown up a fair amount because I miss more often than not. It's more my own stupidity than anything.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I play online curiously often for someone who bitches about it so much.smurfx said:we should get to choose solar's new avatar for betraying hsien ko. added 20 wins to my ranked bar. inching closer to master lord status. gotta get some separation from sixfortyfive since he's catching up!
For some reason I am just compelled to get 1st Lord rank. The OCD achievement whore mentality in me is still strong, I guess.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You are bad. I'll tell you right now why straight up tier whoring is unhealthy and bad. OMG SUCH AND SUCH IS TOP TIER EVERYONE SHOULD JUST USE THEM BLAH BLAH *5 other characters no one uses end up being 20x better but hey no one ever found out or in worst case scenarios get BUFFED in the next version*Grecco said:
As for me I just use who I have fun with. I felt like messing with captain america the other day. OCVing with him vs cosmic lords for shits and giggles when he is one of the "worst" characters just made my day
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Haggar was my main point character for the first few weeks. Then I picked up Zero because his moves look cool. I learned some shit with Zero, and Hulk/Zero/Haggar was my team for a while. Then I succumbed to tier whoring and switched to Wolverine/Zero/Akuma.
It's probably been at least 2 months since I played an actual match. I just watch streams and dick around in training mode on occasion.
It's probably been at least 2 months since I played an actual match. I just watch streams and dick around in training mode on occasion.
QisTopTier said:You are bad. I'll tell you right now why straight up tier whoring is unhealthy and bad. OMG SUCH AND SUCH IS TOP TIER EVERYONE SHOULD JUST USE THEM BLAH BLAH *5 other characters no one uses end up being 20x better but hey no one ever found out or in worst case scenarios get BUFFED in the next version*
As for me I just use who I have fun with. I felt like messing with captain america the other day. OCVing with him vs cosmic lords for shits and giggles when he is one of the "worst" characters just made my day
This is silly. Tiers come out months into a games life, so other characters are still explored. Its not like X chracter wasnt used day one but he secretly was the best character in the game. People could play Vanilla for 1000 years, Arthur is still gonna get blown up.
In the end of the day, why put yourself at a disadvantage, and play lesser characters, like if you like those characters thats fine. I respect that. I dont understand the whole. "I refuse to play top tier, im a low tier user only types. Go ahead do that, then get blown up.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeahhhhh, I'm getting baddie vibes from you now. Let me tell you a little secret, people that genuinely ENJOY who they use and play typically do a better job at winning matches and winning overall. Some characters ARE PURE SHIT not gonna argue against that, and I never said otherwise. It might take a bit more work to match up to a top tier character, but one you get the advantage of using an underused. Two you are honestly enjoying yourself. Three the character has a chance of being severely underrated cause of the underused nature of the character. I'm obviously not talking about Hsienko or arthur here.Grecco said:
P.S tier list shift around all the time.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I blame Max and his friend, they saw the videos and were like WE HAVE TO MAKE DOOM GODLY NOW!Frantic said:
You don't have to become 1st Lord to unlock that trophy/achievement. When you play ranked matches, just change the ranks from "same" to "any." Once you get to face anyone ranked 1st Lord or above, it won't matter if you win or lose the match, the trophy shall be unlocked at the end. At least that's how I unlocked it.Sixfortyfive said:
sixteen-bit
Member
Capcom obviously want more Max videosFrantic said:
edit: beaten to the joke :/
Capcom: fanboys of Max's videos?QisTopTier said:
If they're going to buff all the hidden top tier, I hope they make Spencer's command grab a little more useful. As is, it's only really good for resets and getting an easy untechable combo off on someone who decides to turtle. It doesn't help that there doesn't seem to be ANY difference between the Light version and the Medium version other than the Medium version allowing a wallbounce followup. Give my a range increase on the light version or something!
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Isn't there a tournament going on this weekend?
taskmaster and zero are upper tiers but i never chose them because they were higher tier characters. i was going to use haggar no matter what when i got the game. good thing he ended up having one of the best assists in the game. i chose zero/task because they just clicked with me and i could have fun with them. i could understand not wanting to get destroyed because you chose some bottom tier characters but just choosing whatever characters are deemed top tier doesn't seem right to me.Grecco said:
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Thanks, found it.Grecco said:
I hate Sentinel with the burning intensity of a thousand desert suns. Wished that robot turd was never in the game. :/
Then, there's Ulti-moo moo's Tron. One hit with her and I might as well take a tea break while I wait for her to finish.
Although, I suppose I am feeling more confident against them now after having faced them so much.
Then, there's Ulti-moo moo's Tron. One hit with her and I might as well take a tea break while I wait for her to finish.
Although, I suppose I am feeling more confident against them now after having faced them so much.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Old but funny.Sayah said:
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Dahbomb said:
The great thing is that saying character loyalty is dumb in relation to a Vs game is hilarious - the series that is predicated on pure fan service, and evokes mad rage when people don't get a specific storied character like Mega Man.
Though I always shake my head at arguments like these with tiers because the majority of people who play (and post in online threads) are not going to be playing elite tier games where a weak character is mechanically incapable of doing anything against an S rank that is also a bad matchup for them.
SolarPowered
Member
You guys really took the tier stuff and ran away with it, huh?
I don't think many people complain about Viper, Spencer, Trish, Modok, Amateratsu(outside of option select and small hitbox), and She Hulk even those guys are squarely high tiers. Winning the match with them at the lowest levels still requires some level of effort from the player beyond day 1 gimmicks and that is what most people see everyday.
That shit is hilarious lol.Frantic said:
The thing about this game(and something like SFIV with Yun for example) is that the top tier here do not require a great deal of skill to become good with. It is why people rage at Wesker ABC combos, Magneto disruptor spam, Phoenix... everything spam, Dante sword normals, Zero j.H spam/level 3 buster and Wolvie dive kick/berserker spam. None of those things has any drawbacks in MvC3 at all compared to the harder to play characters.Kaijima said:
I don't think many people complain about Viper, Spencer, Trish, Modok, Amateratsu(outside of option select and small hitbox), and She Hulk even those guys are squarely high tiers. Winning the match with them at the lowest levels still requires some level of effort from the player beyond day 1 gimmicks and that is what most people see everyday.
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We're probably going to drown in a massive wave of salt if RR turns out to be any good. Everyone is gonna get over Trish real soon if Dormmamu stays as good as he is right now haha.Dahbomb said:
Also, everyone is gonna be too busy raging at Dr.Doom, Firebrand and Vergil to even notice her lol.
Karsticles
Member
While I like the new Dormammu, I'm skeptical about him being as monstrous as people think he will be just because none of his changes deal with the problems most Dormammu players have:
1) Universal hit confirmation.
2) Space creation (and with the Flame Carpet nerf, this has gotten worse).
To the characters that Dormammu could keep space against, he was already nigh undefeatable. Dormammu's problem has always been strong rushdown and his lack of options to deal with it, since all of his attacks are super slow, he has no reversals, and he can't wavedash to create distance. You know a character is slow when their fastest attack costs 3 bars of meter!
Don't get me wrong, I really like Dormammu's changes so far (except giving him a normal magic series - bleh), and am even fine with the nerfs. I'm just not confident that these changes really help with any of the problems he had in vanilla.
1) Universal hit confirmation.
2) Space creation (and with the Flame Carpet nerf, this has gotten worse).
To the characters that Dormammu could keep space against, he was already nigh undefeatable. Dormammu's problem has always been strong rushdown and his lack of options to deal with it, since all of his attacks are super slow, he has no reversals, and he can't wavedash to create distance. You know a character is slow when their fastest attack costs 3 bars of meter!
Don't get me wrong, I really like Dormammu's changes so far (except giving him a normal magic series - bleh), and am even fine with the nerfs. I'm just not confident that these changes really help with any of the problems he had in vanilla.
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The strongest rushdown characters in MvC3 have been nerfed to hell and back. Invincible assists are gone and meter stealing/building has been buffed. Dormammu's harder rushdown matchups like Ammy (with Ammy going from 6-4 in her favor at best to 7-3 in Dormammu's favor), Wolverine(Berserk losing invul and slowing down), and Magneto(Much slower and zoning focused) are gone with the wind.
Characters like Doom/Magneto have made wonderful use of the tri dash in order to get around. Dorms was capable of tri dashes the last time I checked. Dormammu looks to be more mobile with his teleports than before and he certainly gets around in the air. Seems to me like you are seriously underestimating how good Dormmamu is looking now that rushers have been toned down and zoners have been buffed.
heh
Edit: This conversation should really shift back to the Ultimate thread
Characters like Doom/Magneto have made wonderful use of the tri dash in order to get around. Dorms was capable of tri dashes the last time I checked. Dormammu looks to be more mobile with his teleports than before and he certainly gets around in the air. Seems to me like you are seriously underestimating how good Dormmamu is looking now that rushers have been toned down and zoners have been buffed.
heh
Edit: This conversation should really shift back to the Ultimate thread
Karsticles
Member
Right, but all of those are ways of getting in. Keeping people out with Dormammu is less difficult than getting them out. Again, his ability to maintain space is definitely much improved within his character and as a result of general roster changes, but he still has no way to create space, and thus his problem remains.
Also, Amaterasu still has a huge advantage over Dormammu if c.M whiffs against her - every time Dormammu wants to combo he has to guess whether he hit, and if he guesses wrong he dies.
Absolutely he has improved in these ways. Yet, again, it has nothing to do with Dormammu's major problems.
Edit: Meh, I don't care where we talk - I just enjoy the conversation.
Wait a minute... which characters in the game CAN create space without expending meter? Taskmaster can't create it, Chris can't create it, Deadpool can at the expense of his 1/3 teleport, Phoenix can't now (she had Salty Balls and now they aren't as good), Amaterasu can't, Arthur definitely can't. Only Magneto really can because he's so fast + has repulsion and maybe new Doom.
Right now the ONLY change I want from Dormammu is the hit box change on cr.M so that it hits crouching opponents. It's one of two biggest problems that I have with Dorm (no cr.L into cr.H is another one). I can deal with no cr.L into cr.H if cr.M has a better hit box because then I can just do magic series for hit confirm. He would be pretty much perfect and if they gave Dormammu some retarded shit like a high priority dive kick, Magneto level tri-dash or Repulsion/Gravitation he would be too good.
Even if they keep him the way he is right now... his usage is going to be upped tremendously. Dark Matter into Teleport is no fucking joke.
Right now the ONLY change I want from Dormammu is the hit box change on cr.M so that it hits crouching opponents. It's one of two biggest problems that I have with Dorm (no cr.L into cr.H is another one). I can deal with no cr.L into cr.H if cr.M has a better hit box because then I can just do magic series for hit confirm. He would be pretty much perfect and if they gave Dormammu some retarded shit like a high priority dive kick, Magneto level tri-dash or Repulsion/Gravitation he would be too good.
Even if they keep him the way he is right now... his usage is going to be upped tremendously. Dark Matter into Teleport is no fucking joke.
Have you played with Dormammu? The whole cr.M hitbox/no cr.L into cr.H is a game ender sometimes.
Not saying he isn't going to be beastly in UMVC3 but there is still a massive fundamental problem with his hit confirming that needs addressing. Capcom sort of tried this with cr.M into cr.H change but it's sort of pointless when cr.M misses on over half the cast when they are crouching.
It's as bad as Ryu not being able to combo after his overhead in vanilla MVC3 (that's fixed in UMVC3 btw). Karst and I had a discussion about this a long time ago about who had it worse.
Not saying he isn't going to be beastly in UMVC3 but there is still a massive fundamental problem with his hit confirming that needs addressing. Capcom sort of tried this with cr.M into cr.H change but it's sort of pointless when cr.M misses on over half the cast when they are crouching.
It's as bad as Ryu not being able to combo after his overhead in vanilla MVC3 (that's fixed in UMVC3 btw). Karst and I had a discussion about this a long time ago about who had it worse.
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A couple of small things like that being missing for a character is like a godsend. I wish I could be in the same situation with my team.
If Dorms could shine with all that shit flying about I don't want to imagine what a buffed Dorm will look like in Ultimate now that it has been stripped of the glitches, and easy stuff. Shit, meter building/stealing alone is something that will lead to Dormination come November...
He really doesn't need much else after tweaking his cr.M anyway. The guy was great in MvC3 with the crazy rushdown, XF bonuses, beefier characters(health), TAC glitch, DHC glitch, etc.Ultimoo said:
If Dorms could shine with all that shit flying about I don't want to imagine what a buffed Dorm will look like in Ultimate now that it has been stripped of the glitches, and easy stuff. Shit, meter building/stealing alone is something that will lead to Dormination come November...
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I should obtain a patent just for this..Dahbomb said:
Get paid every time someone utters the word "Dormination".
C.ViperUltimoo said:
Spencer
Dormammu
Modok
Trish
Storm
Spider Man
Zero
She Hulk
Just a small list of characters that didn't get much play at EVO since the game came out almost seven months ago and people are making great use of them in tournaments left and right these days. Are you going to argue that all of these guys are not great just because they weren't in the top eight(Some of these guys barely appeared in top 32, but they are definitely chocked full of potential) constantly?
It's like people who argue that Yun isn't top in SFIV just because he didn't win EVO. It is a silly argument.
Karsticles
Member
Creating space doesn't mean having a full screen between you. It means being in a position where your opponent has to respect the area in front of you once he's in. Characters like Amaterasu have this because she has 3-frame moves. Those characters also have cancelable ground dashes and fast movement in general, so they can maneuver around their opponent.
Dormammu is the slowest character in the game, and his very shitty c.L has seven frames of startup. So, while people have to be careful against the likes of Amaterasu and her 3-frame attacks, against Dormammu you need to be really careless to get hit up-close. So Dormammu can't run effectively once you're close due to his speed, and he has no fast startup attacks to make you want to respect his immediate space. That's what I'm talking about.
All of the characters you listed either have fast c.L mashes and/or move significantly faster than Dormammu.
I really think his c.L needs to have faster startup, or something like that, so players have to respect his space. As it is, when Dormammu is face-to-face with Wolverine, he's just fucked, no way about it, if Wolverine knows what he is doing. Dormammu simply has nothing that makes you say "respect my space".
Heck, even if 0D0C had something like a 5 frame startup and a nice hitbox, and then could be canceled into Chaotic Flame for a quick space creator, that wouldn't be too bad. But Chaotic Flame is still something like -27 on block - it's very punishable.
You're a Haggar player. Your opinion on zoning is jaded.
"Great" is an overstatement. How many Dormammus were top 32 in Evo? One, and he happened to be on a Phoenix team, and get completely bodies so hard every match he got subbed out for fucking Sentinel.
Dormammu only sees any play at all because of the laws of teleporters in MvC3. And like Sentinel, his play usage went way down since release. Almost every Dormammu player outside of those who anchor him for XF3+Stalking Flare bullshit dropped him after a while because he gets obliterated by the top tiers without any effort.
If the game had another year, I doubt you'd see Dormammu at all at high level competitive play, because the only thing he can do is rush, and he's not even good at it.
As someone who uses Dark Harmonizer, TACs piss me off more than anything else.
Chart their usage, though. C. Viper, Storm, etc. usage has gone up. Dormammu's has gone down. And the reason for some of those not getting use is obvious (MODOK execution); Dormammu has no excuses. He has been figured out.
Karsticles
Member
FYI, Marvel Team Finals is up on Sp00ky's stream for the Canada tournament (forgot the name):
http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky
http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky
Face it Tiger..
Banned
TFGC XII, lol
Karsticles
Member
Oh man, that Trish OCV. She's so underused.
Also, this stream quality is amazing. Better than Evo.
Haha, and then Trish goes on to defeat Combofiend!
Also, this stream quality is amazing. Better than Evo.
Haha, and then Trish goes on to defeat Combofiend!
Just so you guys know, there's pretty much always a thread for major events:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=446173
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=446173