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[Frantic]

Dorm is good, but I feel he's one of the more technical characters to play. You pretty much have to know EXACTLY what the other person is going to be doing at all times, simply because if he misses something he's easily punishable. A lot of characters can stuff things out on his start up frames, too. Spencer's main method of movement stuffs Dorm's stuff out.

Dormammu is the slowest character in the game, and his very shitty c.L has seven frames of startup. So, while people have to be careful against the likes of Amaterasu and her 3-frame attacks, against Dormammu you need to be really careless to get hit up-close. So Dormammu can't run effectively once you're close due to his speed, and he has no fast startup attacks to make you want to respect his immediate space. That's what I'm talking about.

Oh wow, seven frames? I never realized it was THAT bad. I figured it was like five or six. I always thought Dante's was kind of ass being 8 frames, but at least he can chain it multiple times. And his medium won't miss on half the cast.

 

[Karsticles]

Just so you guys know, there's pretty much always a thread for major events:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=446173

Yeah, but I hate having to check so many threads. And that one moves too fast for me. I just want to chat with the Marvel-heads.

Dorm is good, but I feel he's one of the more technical characters to play. You pretty much have to know EXACTLY what the other person is going to be doing at all times, simply because if he misses something he's easily punishable. A lot of characters can stuff things out on his start up frames, too. Spencer's main method of movement stuffs Dorm's stuff out.

I don't think technical is the word - Dormammu requires a lot of yomi and matchup knowledge. And meter. Haha.

Oh wow, seven frames? I never realized it was THAT bad. I figured it was like five or six. I always thought Dante's was kind of ass being 8 frames, but at least he can chain it multiple times. And his medium won't miss on half the cast.

And Dante's normals reach like half-screen, haha. Let's see...some frame data for Dormammu:
c.L startup: 7 frames.
Launcher is -9 on block (seriously)
Dark Hole startup: 26 frames
Purification startup: 32 frames (so whenever someone complains, remember that Dormammu players have to guess where you'll be a whole HALF SECOND before the move goes out)
Chaotic Flame: -21 on block
Stalking Flare: 35 frames startup, 62 frames recovery (-18 block at point blank range)
Flame Carpet startup: 15 frames (31 recovery!)

He's definitely not a friend to frame advantage. Everything he does is so slow.

 

[Neki]

I should obtain a patent just for this..

Get paid every time someone utters the word "Dormination".

C.Viper
Spencer
Dormammu
Modok
Trish
Storm
Spider Man
Zero
She Hulk

Just a small list of characters that didn't get much play at EVO since the game came out almost seven months ago and people are making great use of them in tournaments left and right these days. Are you going to argue that all of these guys are not great just because they weren't in the top eight(Some of these guys barely appeared in top 32, but they are definitely chocked full of potential) constantly?

It's like people who argue that Yun isn't top in SFIV just because he didn't win EVO. It is a silly argument.

No, I'm just saying, Dorm has a low execution barrier compared to most characters, yet he isn't a popular pick. This either means people think he's crap, or people don't want to try him out.

 

[Frantic]

I don't think technical is the word - Dormammu requires a lot of yomi and matchup knowledge. And meter. Haha.

That sort of stuff is more technical to me than anything mechanics based.

And Dante's normals reach like half-screen, haha.

His crouching light probably has less than half the range of his standing light which has the same amount of start up frames. It does have better range than a lot of other character's crouching light, but it will be stuffed out by pretty much every character's light attack. But, like I said, he CAN chain it unlike Dorm's, so it's ultimately better overall.

c.L startup: 7 frames.
Launcher is -9 on block (seriously)
Dark Hole startup: 26 frames
Purification startup: 32 frames (so whenever someone complains, remember that Dormammu players have to guess where you'll be a whole HALF SECOND before the move goes out)
Chaotic Flame: -21 on block
Stalking Flare: 35 frames startup, 62 frames recovery (-18 block at point blank range)
Flame Carpet startup: 15 frames (31 recovery!)

He's definitely not a friend to frame advantage. Everything he does is so slow.

I can't believe some characters launcher's are so punishable on block, but others aren't. It's really stupid.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

I can't believe some characters launcher's are so punishable on block, but others aren't. It's really stupid.

It just depends on the character. Wolverine's should be -20 since he can chain A's so he has no reason to ever go to launcher while Captain America can't chain attacks so he should be -4 or less. Wesker shouldn't be -1 and have a huge ass hitbox; that's just dumb.

 

[SolarPowered]

That sort of stuff is more technical to me than anything mechanics based.

He is the weirdest guy I've met on these forums when it comes to fighters. Somehow he finds Dormammu's crazy ass distance dependent spells easier to handle while dd.attack for Ammy's weapon change stops him dead in his tracks.

Karsticles gonna Karsticles I guess.

I can't believe some characters launcher's are so punishable on block, but others aren't. It's really stupid.

I got the guide early on when the game came out, but I didn't bother reading it too much until a month or so after the game came out. The thing that made me crack open the book was Wesker's constant s.S spam and how completely safe he was. I couldn't understand what was going on and I honestly thought they had shipped a broken game or something lol.

I finally figured out how shitty Capcom really is when it comes to favoritism after I cracked open that book. Comparing the shitty characters with the constant Akuma/Magneto/Dante/Wesker/Phoenix players made me realize how fucking shitty my team really was.

No way I buy brand new non-Mahvel/Darkstalkers fighters from them day one anymore lol.

It just depends on the character. Wolverine's should be -20 since he can chain A's so he has no reason to ever go to launcher while Captain America can't chain attacks so he should be -4 or less. Wesker shouldn't be -1 and have a huge ass hitbox; that's just dumb.

"Why the hell is Wesker's s.S so amazingly safe when he can shoot me with a tiny bullet and start a full combo?"
"How the fuck did Wolverine get behind me so quickly and how the hell can he hit hit like a ford truck when he moves like a fuckin' Ferrari?"
"Okay, it's only XF3 I can... holy shit wtf five hits and I'm dead?"
"Wait... how in the world can Magneto move so fast? It's okay lemme just make some distance so I can think up a strategy... holy shit those beams are RETARDED!"
"Phoenix was pretty tough... but now she's dead-OH GREAT BALLS OF FIRE!"

Lot's of things that I first asked after I saw them. I'll never understand how such crazy good characters can exist in the same game as the bottom 5-10 in this game haha.

 

[Karsticles]

That sort of stuff is more technical to me than anything mechanics based.

Hah. I guess I consider technical to mean more about knowing the maximum limitations of your character. So, I would say Magneto and C. Viper are technical, because you have to know how to abuse their combos for hitstun deterioration and such, whereas Dormammu is pretty much launcher into magic series.

How are you defining technical?

Also, Dormammu vs. Dormammu is one of the most annoying mirror matches in the game.

His crouching light probably has less than half the range of his standing light which has the same amount of start up frames. It does have better range than a lot of other character's crouching light, but it will be stuffed out by pretty much every character's light attack. But, like I said, he CAN chain it unlike Dorm's, so it's ultimately better overall.

His c.L still has huge range. I find it odd that I don't like Dante, because in him is everything that I find appealing in a character. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way though.

I can't believe some characters launcher's are so punishable on block, but others aren't. It's really stupid.

Yeah. :-( Or at least let me cancel launcher into Flame Carpet or something.

He is the weirdest guy I've met on these forums when it comes to fighters. Somehow he finds Dormammu's crazy ass distance dependent spells easier to handle while dd.attack for Ammy's weapon change stops him dead in his tracks.

Karsticles gonna Karsticles I guess.

It's that d,d motion. I just can't double tap for crap. It's part of why I don't play BlazBlue seriously - I can't dash. :-(

I have a very spacing-oriented mindset by default though. Everything and how I handle it is very mechanical and based on positioning by nature. Believe it or not, my worst matchups, as a player, are against Dante, Sentinel, Hulk, Haggar, etc. - characters with huge range on their attacks. I find it difficult to handle characters that outrange me on their normals.

That's part of why I run the team I do now - Dormammu never needs to fight them head-on. I'm embarrassingly guilty of losing to Haggar players regularly. Now I just place Flame Carpet, call meter assist, and charge Dark Spells for 1D2C spam whenever I can.

I got the guide early on when the game came out, but I didn't bother reading it too much until a month or so after the game came out. The thing that made me crack open the book was Wesker's constant s.S spam and how completely safe he was. I couldn't understand what was going on and I honestly thought they had shipped a broken game or something lol.

Hahaha, good stuff. I still read that book regularly. I recently re-read the Morrigan and Dormammu sections, and a month ago I read Phoenix again. That's how I have my endless Dark Phoenix blockstring now...

Lot's of things that I first asked after I saw them. I'll never understand how such crazy good characters can exist in the same game as the bottom 5-10 in this game haha.

Psh, Hsien-ko has hyper armor! ;-)

We should play again sometime. Any chance you're available tonight?

Edit: What just happened there, when Dormammu was grabbed 3 times in a row by Taskmaster? That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Frantic]

Hah. I guess I consider technical to mean more about knowing the maximum limitations of your character. So, I would say Magneto and C. Viper are technical, because you have to know how to abuse their combos for hitstun deterioration and such, whereas Dormammu is pretty much launcher into magic series.

How are you defining technical?

Well, I'd probably define it similar to what you have of Magneto and C. Viper, but I would say Dormammu requires a lot of match up knowledge and knowing the all the aspects of how to deal with the character - hence I view him as a technical character. Characters like Wesker, Wolverine, She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Akuma - they're more simple characters that you really only need to know the fundamentals of the game to play well. Then there are characters like Spencer where you need a mixture. You don't need to know all the technicalities to do well with him, but knowing them will definitely help you a LOT.

Usually when I see people saying characters are 'technical' characters, they usually say it related to their complexity which I don't agree with. Dormammu isn't something you'd call a 'technical' character based on complexity, but he's a technical character on the spacing, the match ups, and the yomi. At least, that's how I see it. I mean, I can play She-Hulk really well despite having probably less than a couple hours in the lab with her because she's a fundamentals based character. Trying to play Dormammu? Can't do it because I don't know all the technicalities of his moves completely. Dante was the same for me at the beginning, but I just kept at it until I started getting the hang of it.

Also, Dormammu vs. Dormammu is one of the most annoying mirror matches in the game.

Spencer vs Spencer is my most hated mirror match. Both missing Wire Grapple, clashing Zip Lines, Bionic Lancer stupidity, etc. Dante vs Dante is most fun to me because it's very much a 'feel out' match. I find it easier to beat Dantes with Spencer, though.

His c.L still has huge range. I find it odd that I don't like Dante, because in him is everything that I find appealing in a character. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way though.

He's an acquired taste, and definitely a douchebag. It's no surprise people don't really like him, especially since he embodies the typical 'badass' appearance with the trenchcoat, big swords, guns, and white hair. I will say I'm not a big fan of DMC3 Dante.

I have a very spacing-oriented mindset by default though. Everything and how I handle it is very mechanical and based on positioning by nature. Believe it or not, my worst matchups, as a player, are against Dante, Sentinel, Hulk, Haggar, etc. - characters with huge range on their attacks. I find it difficult to handle characters that outrange me on their normals.

I get blown up by Haggar a lot. I don't respect the pipe enough. Sentinel and Hulk used to be really dangerous for me since the super armor threw me off, and their hitboxes were so big. Then I discovered the trick of Wire Grapple beating out super armor, and that was when I started realizing how useful Wire Grapple was. Haggar's pipe beats out Wire Grapple most of the time, so I usually have to time a Bionic Lancer. If I need it, anyways. Usually I encounter Haggar on anchor. Haggar on point is the worst thing ever, since I can't lame him out with assists backing him up.

 

[SolarPowered]

I already made a lobby on the PS3. I'll be back in less than ten minutes and ready to play.

 

[QisTopTier]

LOL my game just froze

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Forgot about this thread. I have this game on both systems. Just recently found my PS3 copy too.

xbl gt: drubski
psn id: viewtifuldru

send me a message or whatever if you're gonna add me.

 

[Karsticles]

Sorry about missing you Solar - wife called and we got to talking. I didn't even notice that you were getting on until about half an hour after you posted.

 

[Mr.Fresh]

I have the PS3 version of this game so Add Ace_235 if you wanna do some matches.

Im not that good tho. I would like to get better so shoot me a message on PSN.

 

[smurfx]

Dormammu is the slowest character in the game, and his very shitty c.L has seven frames of startup. So, while people have to be careful against the likes of Amaterasu and her 3-frame attacks, against Dormammu you need to be really careless to get hit up-close. So Dormammu can't run effectively once you're close due to his speed, and he has no fast startup attacks to make you want to respect his immediate space. That's what I'm talking about.

slower than slow ass haggar? you can hit haggar five times before he can finish one of his moves.

 

[Karsticles]

slower than slow ass haggar? you can hit haggar five times before he can finish one of his moves.

By slow, I meant walking/dashing speed. And yes, Dormammu is slower than Haggar in terms of ground dashes. In terms of attacks, Haggar's c.L takes 8 frames to come out, one more than Dormammu. That's not quite as bad as it seems though, since Haggar tends to approach through a jump, and all of his aerial attacks give him heavy frame advantage.

Dormammu and Haggar are tied for walking speed:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2011/feb/19/walk-speed-comparison-marvel-vs-capcom-3/

In terms of ground dashing, Haggar is superior by miles in a variety of fashions (2:27 for Haggar, but the entire video is enjoyable):
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/feb/20/turbo-dashing-fun-marvel-vs-capcom-3/

 

[Zissou]

I finally took the time to figure out TAC glitch-free She-Hulk relaunch combos in preparation for ultimate! I still hope they don't nerf her too bad

Oh well, I'll always have Doom to save the day

Spoiler

ultimate doom looks godlike

 

[Neki]

I love when She-Hulk tries to do a TAC glitch combo on me, gives me a 50/50 chance of breaking it and saving my life


feels good man.

 

[smurfx]

just added another cosmic lord to the list. this time its some guy called dsgb greatness. he had a 19 game winning streak too. beat another cosmic before him called strider something but i've already beaten him.

 

[Zissou]

I love when She-Hulk tries to do a TAC glitch combo on me, gives me a 50/50 chance of breaking it and saving my life


feels good man.

I thought you didn't really have a 50/50 shot of breaking the TAC glitch- hardly anyone manages it online (lol, online), but you don't see it happen in tournaments either, even when players like nerdjosh use it constantly.

 

[smurfx]

i think i'm 35 or 40 games away from master lord status. catch me if you can sixfortyfive.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I played my first match in like 2 months this evening. Did 20 or so games with the same guy off my friends list I usually play. I stuck with Wolverine/Zero/Akuma. Just earlier today I learned to combo into Wolverine's level 3, and I hit that a couple times online to good effect. My Akuma also isn't a complete dipshit now, at least getting combos off overheads and demon flip relaunch.

It kind of makes me want to drop Zero though. Wolverine does more damage for way less effort. Maybe Wesker would be good in that spot.

 

[Dahbomb]

LOL @ ground dashing with Dormammu. Just tri-jump for mobility or teleport.

Creating space doesn't mean having a full screen between you. It means being in a position where your opponent has to respect the area in front of you once he's in. Characters like Amaterasu have this because she has 3-frame moves. Those characters also have cancelable ground dashes and fast movement in general, so they can maneuver around their opponent.

Dormammu is the slowest character in the game, and his very shitty c.L has seven frames of startup. So, while people have to be careful against the likes of Amaterasu and her 3-frame attacks, against Dormammu you need to be really careless to get hit up-close. So Dormammu can't run effectively once you're close due to his speed, and he has no fast startup attacks to make you want to respect his immediate space. That's what I'm talking about.

All of the characters you listed either have fast c.L mashes and/or move significantly faster than Dormammu.

When you put it like that... that's an issue of spacing and priorities with normals. Chris has slow normals too but the rest of the characters to have fast/good normals to use in clutch situations (Chris has cr.M his best normal and that's it).

So basically all your problems of Dormammu stem from his normals. Which I respect his normals are WTF bad sometimes sort of like Iron Man (who is on paper supposed to have great normals because that's the type of character he is).

As it is, when Dormammu is face-to-face with Wolverine, he's just fucked, no way about it, if Wolverine knows what he is doing. Dormammu simply has nothing that makes you say "respect my space".

By design Wolverine at close range is supposed to dominate Dormammu in the normal departments. If Dormammu is able to out space Wolverine just on the basis of normals then either Wolverine is ass or Dormammu is too good. Especially now, even with the nerfed Flame Carpet Wolverine is going to have a headache getting in on Dorm.

Also even Dante has slow start up normals (7 frames) at close range. That's really the only range he is weak at and once someone is he has a hard time getting off them. It's why the popular team composition of Haggar + Dante was created. Maybe you should look into that for Dorm (the Haggar assist... abuse it while it's hot!).

 

[SmokeMaxX]

By slow, I meant walking/dashing speed. And yes, Dormammu is slower than Haggar in terms of ground dashes. In terms of attacks, Haggar's c.L takes 8 frames to come out, one more than Dormammu. That's not quite as bad as it seems though, since Haggar tends to approach through a jump, and all of his aerial attacks give him heavy frame advantage.

Dormammu and Haggar are tied for walking speed:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2011/feb/19/walk-speed-comparison-marvel-vs-capcom-3/

In terms of ground dashing, Haggar is superior by miles in a variety of fashions (2:27 for Haggar, but the entire video is enjoyable):
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/feb/20/turbo-dashing-fun-marvel-vs-capcom-3/

If you make it that specific, then yeah Dorm is slower than Haggar... but then Dorm has a teleport. He can also reach full screen to punish in like 10 frames or so with his hyper. He's also meant to be more of a keep out character than a get in character so for Haggar to be tied in speed with him.... that's just sad. That's like if Sagat or Dhalsim walked normal speed.

 

[Dahbomb]

Also Dorm has a tri-dash which is where his actual mobility lies and that's where he is getting buffed too. Dorm has the luxury of "playing the match ups" because he has some versatility in his play style... Haggar is 1 dimensional in his play style and can be zoned out by anyone with a fireball or above.

 

[LakeEarth]

I thought you didn't really have a 50/50 shot of breaking the TAC glitch- hardly anyone manages it online (lol, online), but you don't see it happen in tournaments either, even when players like nerdjosh use it constantly.

Yeah, breaking the TAC glitch seems to be glitched too. I've seen people break it, but it's way less than 50% of the time.

 

[Dahbomb]

Just coming in to say you guys missed the Grand Finals of that Toronto MVC3 tournament. More confirmation of "HYPEST GAME EVER" especially when it was a dream battle between 2 of the hypest players on earth.

Grand Finalists:

Spoiler

Combofiend vs MarlinePie

http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/295991725 <-- Grand Finals at around 1:38:00

 

[Neki]

I thought you didn't really have a 50/50 shot of breaking the TAC glitch- hardly anyone manages it online (lol, online), but you don't see it happen in tournaments either, even when players like nerdjosh use it constantly.

most people don't know honestly.

 

[Karsticles]

LOL @ ground dashing with Dormammu. Just tri-jump for mobility or teleport.

Teleporting isn't safe, and Dormammu is 100% vulnerable while tri-jumping back-down because he can't attack or block out of it until he touches the ground, and it's not even fast enough to beat out the normal dashes of most characters.

When you put it like that... that's an issue of spacing and priorities with normals. Chris has slow normals too but the rest of the characters to have fast/good normals to use in clutch situations (Chris has cr.M his best normal and that's it).

Not just normals. I mean, Ryu can Shinkuu Hadoken opponents away, but I can't use Chaotic Flame like that. Most characters can wavedash, have a reversal, or something. And for most characters, being close to your opponent isn't inherently bad - lol!

So basically all your problems of Dormammu stem from his normals. Which I respect his normals are WTF bad sometimes sort of like Iron Man (who is on paper supposed to have great normals because that's the type of character he is).

I just do c.LMS with Iron Man - screw the H!

By design Wolverine at close range is supposed to dominate Dormammu in the normal departments. If Dormammu is able to out space Wolverine just on the basis of normals then either Wolverine is ass or Dormammu is too good. Especially now, even with the nerfed Flame Carpet Wolverine is going to have a headache getting in on Dorm.

I understand the situation should not be to Dormammu's advantage, but Dormammu is NOT keepaway, and he CANT keep anyone out. None of his moves aside from Dark Matter, which is lolz, cause any pushback on block. He's not like Deadpool, who can jump back and do guns and then teleport to the opposite side of the screen. Dormammu is stationary, and his teleport keeps him near his opponent.

I don't think making Dormammu's c.L 3 frames would make him suddenly godlike against Wolverine, it just means that it wouldn't be a crazy idea to sit there and block against Wolverine until he throws me for free.

Also even Dante has slow start up normals (7 frames) at close range. That's really the only range he is weak at and once someone is he has a hard time getting off them. It's why the popular team composition of Haggar + Dante was created. Maybe you should look into that for Dorm (the Haggar assist... abuse it while it's hot!).

I don't like the Haggar assist - I have my team set for ultimate. Dante has slow startup normals, but he also has ridiculous range on all of his normals and endless pressure. Believe me, if Dormammu could actually space opponents out with his slow normals, I wouldn't care. I have ~3000 matches with Sentinel - I understand this concept well.

But Dormammu's normals generally suck for their speed, with the only good normal being c.M as an anti-air, which is doubtlessly godlike and among the best in the game. I would KILL for his normals to reach as far as their startup time suggests they should.

If you make it that specific, then yeah Dorm is slower than Haggar... but then Dorm has a teleport. He can also reach full screen to punish in like 10 frames or so with his hyper. He's also meant to be more of a keep out character than a get in character so for Haggar to be tied in speed with him.... that's just sad. That's like if Sagat or Dhalsim walked normal speed.

No doubt Dormammu has other strengths; don't misread me. Also, Dormammu can't keep anyone out without assists babysitting him. Seriously, go into some player matches and try to play "keepaway" with Dormammu. It just doesn't work.

Also Dorm has a tri-dash which is where his actual mobility lies and that's where he is getting buffed too. Dorm has the luxury of "playing the match ups" because he has some versatility in his play style... Haggar is 1 dimensional in his play style and can be zoned out by anyone with a fireball or above.

I love Dormammu - I'm not sure why people are talking about some of his other strengths, because it's not relevant to the serious issues he has against some of the cast, and the Flame Carpet nerf will make this worse (when will I EVER get to lay a Flame Carpet against Wesker now?).

Just coming in to say you guys missed the Grand Finals of that Toronto MVC3 tournament. More confirmation of "HYPEST GAME EVER" especially when it was a dream battle between 2 of the hypest players on earth.

I didn't miss them - great fights.

I thought you didn't really have a 50/50 shot of breaking the TAC glitch- hardly anyone manages it online (lol, online), but you don't see it happen in tournaments either, even when players like nerdjosh use it constantly.

It's definitely not 50/50, because IIRC She-Hulk always has to downward TAC when she does the glitch. The game just decides to acknowledge your input about 10% of the time for some reason.

 

[Kimosabae]

Just coming in to say you guys missed the Grand Finals of that Toronto MVC3 tournament. More confirmation of "HYPEST GAME EVER" especially when it was a dream battle between 2 of the hypest players on earth.

Grand Finalists:

Spoiler

Combofiend vs MarlinePie

http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/295991725 <-- Grand Finals at around 1:38:00

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=446173&page=11

 

[Neki]

It's definitely not 50/50, because IIRC She-Hulk always has to downward TAC when she does the glitch. The game just decides to acknowledge your input about 10% of the time for some reason.

Are you sure? I swear I've countered a she-hulk TAC using up exchange. I'll check it when I get home I guess. People say it doesn't register that often, but I've gotten alot of aerial counters.

 

[Dahbomb]

I just do c.LMS with Iron Man - screw the H!

You can't do that on reaction or as hit confirmation in my experience because the S is hella unsafe (more than Dorm's). Also at near the max range of cr.M... S misses.
Although it's the best option for Iron Man because having to deal with H in general is just a game ender.

I understand the situation should not be to Dormammu's advantage, but Dormammu is NOT keepaway, and he CANT keep anyone out. None of his moves aside from Dark Matter, which is lolz, cause any pushback on block. He's not like Deadpool, who can jump back and do guns and then teleport to the opposite side of the screen. Dormammu is stationary, and his teleport keeps him near his opponent.

I realize that too but Dorm was originally conceived as a space controller (hence all his specials that control a particular space on the screen). Over time Capcom realized that the character was more effective for rushdown than zoning due to the meta of the game so in UMVC3 they are just strengthening his rushdown. Probably for the best, keep the zoning for zoning specialists like Strange and Hawkeye.

I'm not sure why people are talking about some of his other strengths, because it's not relevant to the serious issues he has against some of the cast, and the Flame Carpet nerf will make this worse (when will I EVER get to lay a Flame Carpet against Wesker now?).

The argument sort of shifted mid way when Haggar and Dormammu were compared. That's when the talk about tri-dash/teleports came in and how Dorm has the luxury of such tools while other characters don't. The fact that he has some strengths to him outside of his fundamentals is decent enough where as Haggar is just ass. So it's just non-nonsensical to compare those character's walk speeds when one is so much better than the other in general.


And apparently I missed the gigantic tournament thread about it. LULZ

 

[Kimosabae]

Hit confirming cr. LMS is definitely hard with Iron Man - but it can be done consistently. I do well with it - for the most part - but I largely attribute any sketchiness to the fact that I don't get to play people that often, so there's tons of beyond-training-mode shit that isn't hardwired into muscle memory.

If you're in range, you can also do cr. L x 2, M, S. You gotta be fast with the M tough.

I think being able to hitconfirm without H is essential for Iron Man, because H limits IM's launch potential since it pushes them out. You can take better advantage of the insane range of his cr. M -> S Launcher if you learn to ignore H.

 

[Chavelo]

Holy shit at the Combofiend and MarlinPie Grand Finals. I love Combo's team synergy and his insane Spencer comebacks, but then you have MarlinPie's execution and pretty C.Viper tech.

Good stuff!

 

[Dahbomb]

Hit confirming cr. LMS is definitely hard with Iron Man - but it can be done consistently. I do well with it - for the most part - but I largely attribute any sketchiness to the fact that I don't get to play people that often, so there's tons of beyond-training-mode shit that isn't hardwired into muscle memory.

If you're in range, you can also do cr. L x 2, M, S. You gotta be fast with the M tough.

I think being able to hitconfirm with H is essential for Iron Man, because H limits IM's launch potential since it pushes them out. You can take better advantage of the insane range of his cr. M -> S Launcher if you learn to ignore H.

Yeah I can agree with all of this.

Thing about the hit confirming with Iron man is that going into UMVC3 you are going to need to learn how to do cr.LM St.H into Fly cancel because that's going to be the basis of his bread n butter. The similar combo he has now is inconsistent because at a certain range it whiffs on characters but that seems to be fixed in UMVC3 (people said that this particular combo was generally much easier to execute thanks to the faster flight cancel). I have been practicing this particular hit confirm with Iron Man for quite some time now and I think I almost have it but in actual matches I revert to my usual "tri-jump in get the hit, cr.LMS into double jump easy mode combo".

Of course none of this might matter if you can't open up people with Iron Man with his supposed "non-existent" tri-dash. We'll see how that pans out. Point is that you have to try much harder with Iron Man on simple fundamental stuff than with other characters and I can sympathize with players of other characters who run into similar stuff.

Another interesting think about Iron Man is that when going for air throws you may not always want to go for a forward air throw because if you push them towards the corner you may not be able to follow up with air Smart Bombs L air dash M d+H. Instead you have to go for a back throw option select instead.

 

[Kimosabae]

Actually, when in the corner, unless they're just really high up, you can just land, Smart Bomb L, to Hyper ^_^.

Gets people hella salty because it seems like IM has forever to OTG in this situation. You can also get this midscreen if you catch them low enough to the ground where you can't Airdash - but it's difficult.

And yeah, playing Iron Man (also Dante and Mags) has made me realize how lol easy this game can be to play at times. I've recently started playing a lot more characters - Wesker in particular feels like some sort of epiphany - "Yo, you mean if I just press BBCD a few times and go for a reset I can kill a character?! Holy shit!". Playing Iron Man has given me confidence to play any character, regardless of whether its deserved or not - I'll take it.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Does Wesker counter Zero? It kind of seems like he does. Fucker's legs are too long.

 

[Dahbomb]

Actually, when in the corner, unless they're just really high up, you can just land, Smart Bomb L, to Hyper ^_^.

In the corner you can do ground Smart Bomb L, st.L (it's a link and the timing is tight) into magic series launcher. If you are really good you can do a flight cancel combo off of the corner throw as well. There should be videos of this. Hard to do of course... I mean lol it's Iron Man.

Combo is corner air throw or corner ground throw -> Smart Bomb L, L, M, H into either flight cancel or launcher.

And yeah, playing Iron Man (also Dante and Mags) has made me realize how lol easy this game can be to play at times. I've recently started playing a lot more characters - Wesker in particular feels like some sort of epiphany - "Yo, you mean if I just press BBCD a few times and go for a reset I can kill a character?! Holy shit!". Playing Iron Man has given me confidence to play any character, regardless of whether its deserved or not - I'll take it.

Really depends on the character. Some characters are hard to play others are really easy. Even if I can play with Iron Man, I still can't touch MODOK, C Viper, Felicia and X-23. Where as Wolverine, Wesker, Akuma I can do these characters supposed HARD combos in my sleep.

Does Wesker counter Zero? It kind of seems like he does. Fucker's legs are too long.

In my experience as a Wesker player, none of Wesker's normals beat out Zero's. St.L misses on Zero when he is crouching. Wesker can't do anything about Zero's cr.M or anything about st.H or Shippuga. He can push block Zero and then try to out gun him. Air to air Zero has him beat too in terms of normals.

But Wesker still has the edge in the match up because of the counter. Zero has to be SUPER careful about waving that j.H around because it leads into him dead. I usually just make one good read against Zero and kill him off, no sweat.

 

[Kimosabae]

I dunno, is Viper hard to play? I'm just not seeing it, yet (just started playing her, really). Outside the infinite and Siesmo chains, what is there? Her combos without assists are damaging as hell and relatively conventional.

 

[QisTopTier]

I dunno, is Viper hard to play? I'm just not seeing it, yet (just started playing her, really). Outside the infinite and Siesmo chains, what is there? Her combos without assists are damaging as hell and relatively conventional.

Her cancels and siesmo chain stuff IS WHAT makes her strong, thus she is hard She can be overwhelmingly strong, it just takes a lot of technical skill to be able to use her consistently.

 

[Frantic]

You know, I'd really like to play Iron Man more, but I have trouble playing tri-dashers in general. I always manage to land before the attack comes out, or the attacks sail over everyone's heads. I know I'm just doing it wrong, but I can't ever seem to get it right.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

In my experience as a Wesker player, none of Wesker's normals beat out Zero's. St.L misses on Zero when he is crouching. Wesker can't do anything about Zero's cr.M or anything about st.H or Shippuga. He can push block Zero and then try to out gun him. Air to air Zero has him beat too in terms of normals.

But Wesker still has the edge in the match up because of the counter. Zero has to be SUPER careful about waving that j.H around because it leads into him dead. I usually just make one good read against Zero and kill him off, no sweat.

Well I pretty much just play against this one Wesker player, but he often seems to tag me with Wesker's main poke (crouching B?) as I'm landing from a j.H. And of course Wesker can easily kill Zero with one combo, whereas Zero's gonna need 2 or 3 to kill Wesker unless you use a ton of meter and x-factor.

Zero combos look flashy and are fun to do, but they're so much work for so little damage. I can kill a guy so much faster just using flowchart wolverine. ;_;

 

[Neki]

Well I pretty much just play against this one Wesker player, but he often seems to tag me with Wesker's main poke (crouching B?) as I'm landing from a j.H. And of course Wesker can easily kill Zero with one combo, whereas Zero's gonna need 2 or 3 to kill Wesker unless you use a ton of meter and x-factor.

Zero combos look flashy and are fun to do, but they're so much work for so little damage. I can kill a guy so much faster just using flowchart wolverine. ;_;

unacceptable!

 

[Dahbomb]

Her combos aren't hard but stuff like her EX TK cancel (a 1 frame link), Seismo chain cancels and FADC stuff is super hard. The amount of inputs that you have to do within a few frames with that character is just beyond me. Not to mention her numerous other techs like that Viper ball.

Supposedly her TK cancel has been made much more lenient in UMVC3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7vk3GmzHiM <-- FADC tutorial

Well I pretty much just play against this one Wesker player, but he often seems to tag me with Wesker's main poke (crouching B?) as I'm landing from a j.H. And of course Wesker can easily kill Zero with one combo, whereas Zero's gonna need 2 or 3 to kill Wesker unless you use a ton of meter and x-factor

Cr.B is Wesker's best poke but it's also Zero's best poke. Zero's cr.B beats out Wesker's cr.B. Of course if you are being predictable with j.H he can position himself underneath the arc of the sword and just launcher you which has huge priority as well as being safe on block.

 

[Kimosabae]

Her cancels and siesmo chain stuff IS WHAT makes her strong, thus she is hard She can be overwhelmingly strong, it just takes a lot of technical skill to be able to use her consistently.

Which cancel in particular? Marlinpie is the standard right now, and I see haven't recognized any outside the infinite and Seismo Chains don't seem very difficult, though admittedly I haven't dedicated myself to mastering them yet.

 

[Dahbomb]

Seismo chains aren't THAT hard but doing them with THAT speed to make an almost inescapable block string like MarlinPie can... THAT IS HARD. Not to mention that it's not just Seismo chain you have to know when you get a hit so you can do EX Seismo into box loop or something. You can probably get 2 off but after that it becomes hard.The FADC and TK cancels are legitimately hard no matter what.

If I was god tier in execution and had swagger... I would be playing C Viper/Dante (Jam Session)/Iron Man because I have lots of technology in my head and in training mode with this team (IMO it's a god tier team but I will never prove it so I never talk about it). But I don't play it and even Iron Man alone is a handful.

 

[QisTopTier]

Which cancel in particular? Marlinpie is the standard right now, and I see haven't recognized any outside the infinite and Seismo Chains don't seem very difficult, though admittedly I haven't dedicated myself to mastering them yet.

Dahbomb pretty much covered it. But who knows, maybe the character just clicks with you

 

[Neki]

I hope one of the new character gets a nice beam assist. I love Sent drones, but it takes way too much time to get out, and he gets punished hard. D:

 

[Kimosabae]

Seismo chains aren't THAT hard but doing them with THAT speed to make an almost inescapable block string like MarlinPie can... THAT IS HARD. Not to mention that it's not just Seismo chain you have to know when you get a hit so you can do EX Seismo into box loop or something. You can probably get 2 off but after that it becomes hard.The FADC and TK cancels are legitimately hard no matter what.

If I was god tier in execution and had swagger... I would be playing C Viper/Dante (Jam Session)/Iron Man because I have lots of technology in my head and in training mode with this team (IMO it's a god tier team but I will never prove it so I never talk about it). But I don't play it and even Iron Man alone is a handful.

What are some of your ideas for that team? I play those characters, and that team has crossed my mind.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Cr.B is Wesker's best poke but it's also Zero's best poke. Zero's cr.B beats out Wesker's cr.B. Of course if you are being predictable with j.H he can position himself underneath the arc of the sword and just launcher you which has huge priority as well as being safe on block.

I seem to get blown up a lot when I do Zero's qcb+H and then H as I'm coming down. If I land next to Wesker it seems like I always get tagged just as I'm landing. Maybe I just need different tools to get in.

 

[SolarPowered]

Sorry about missing you Solar - wife called and we got to talking. I didn't even notice that you were getting on until about half an hour after you posted.

No biggie