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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT3| Self-Control Support Group
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
sixteen-bit
Member
Nice. I hate when they preemptively upload these and make them public days later because they always fail to appear on my subscription feed.Grecco said:
Face it Tiger..
Banned
Fuckin' Taskmaster costume on the marvel live stream, rofl.
SolarKnight
Member
Ugh, today at the tourney I got freaking blown up by Wolvie/Storm/Task (it worked REALLY well) and then just as bad if not worse by a Skrull/Wesker/forgot the third (Skrull did all the work anyways). Holy fuck I have no idea how to deal with Skrull. I got crossed up, reset, and almost touch of death'd. Does anyone have some anti-Skrull technnology you could share? x___x
Karsticles
Member
Treat Skrull kind of like Dormammu. He's very slow and loves space. Nothing he does is fast.
Edit: Or safe!
Edit: Or safe!
SolarKnight
Member
That doesn't really matter after I got hit by Tron and then after almost killing me (although that's more of a problem with Tron assist than Skrull tbh) and then either crossing me up or resetting for another combo into the kill...He had this one reset in which I ended up in the air after being carried to the corner and then he did his command grab and I couldn't do anything at all to escape, couldn't even teleport with Dorm.
My problem is after he gets a hit in one way or another. I was kinda learning how to block him during the casuals after that, but that god damn reset...
My problem is after he gets a hit in one way or another. I was kinda learning how to block him during the casuals after that, but that god damn reset...
crimsonspider89
Banned
Unfortunately(or fortunately if you use Skrull), most people have no anti Skrull tech due to him not being used often. But remember do your best to block hypers. The inferno one is unsafe.
So best look and have fun with your new Skrull overlords.
So best look and have fun with your new Skrull overlords.
Professor Beef
Banned
It was made of wood, Magneto!Ultimoo said:
sixteen-bit
Member
It's a fake gun made out of woodUltimoo said:
edit: fuck.
Killa Sasa
Member
El Sloth said:
Debating between this and white t-shirt with COSTUME written on it.
Some minimalist MvC3 icons I saw that looked pretty cool.
Bigger versions of each in his gallery. Really cool stuff. prime avatar material inspired by the SDCC shirts. Tasky and Doom ones are my fave.
Bigger versions of each in his gallery. Really cool stuff. prime avatar material inspired by the SDCC shirts. Tasky and Doom ones are my fave.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
haha taskmaster one is silly looking I love it.enzo_gt said:
Professor Beef
Banned
Either it never came up before with him, or he got caught up in the hype and forgot. Either way, it was a real nail-biter.Rynge said:
sixteen-bit
Member
Pretty funny edit of the recent Marn Running Sets moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G43QiLcaINc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G43QiLcaINc
scytheavatar
Member
Rynge said:
Duh, because he plays Phoenix and rarely uses his hypers? Why else did you think J Wong said that Phoenix players are smart players but not necessarily good player?
J Wong also said his own Wesker is above average and Viscant's Wesker which is the best in MvC3 was not. Salt was flowing. And Viscant does use hypers in the case of threats like Wolverine, etc, he just never burns more than one bar unlike Tokido and F. Champ and the lot.scytheavatar said:
Regardless, one drop from Viscant in the the entirety of the sets is no big knock against his play, dude is probably the most consistent MvC3 player IMO.
lol @ Marneto. I haven't had time to watch any of the recent Runnin Sets
shaowebb
Member
enzo_gt said:J Wong also said his own Wesker is above average and Viscant's Wesker which is the best in MvC3 was not. Salt was flowing. And Viscant does use hypers in the case of threats like Wolverine, etc, he just never burns more than one bar unlike Tokido and F. Champ and the lot.
Regardless, one drop from Viscant in the the entirety of the sets is no big knock against his play, dude is probably the most consistent MvC3 player IMO.
lol @ Marneto. I haven't had time to watch any of the recent Runnin Sets
The Marn vs Combofiend set was pretty hype. Marn was getting scary in some of those rounds and both were using touch of death combos on each other. It got pretty wild.
Best quote was Marn"...Man fuck this game..."
Karsticles
Member
Whooo, ComboFiend getting perfected by Felicia/Skrull/Taskmaster. :-O
Topic of discussion:
S Tier of MVC3 be expanded to 8 characters instead of 5.
Zero and Viper are legitimate S Tier characters. Agree or disagree?
And please do not say stuff like "OH you saw so and so win now you saying this character is good". If you guys ever followed my discussion you will know that I have been clamoring for these 2 characters since MVC3 came out but it's only now that the results are up for everyone to see.
Current S Tier:
Phoenix
Wolverine
Dante
Wesker
Magneto
Proposed S Tier:
Phoenix
Wolverine
Dante
Wesker
Magneto
Zero
Viper
(Insert character of choice here)
I still think #8 spot belongs to Amaterasu on strength of match ups with S tier.
S Tier of MVC3 be expanded to 8 characters instead of 5.
Zero and Viper are legitimate S Tier characters. Agree or disagree?
And please do not say stuff like "OH you saw so and so win now you saying this character is good". If you guys ever followed my discussion you will know that I have been clamoring for these 2 characters since MVC3 came out but it's only now that the results are up for everyone to see.
Current S Tier:
Phoenix
Wolverine
Dante
Wesker
Magneto
Proposed S Tier:
Phoenix
Wolverine
Dante
Wesker
Magneto
Zero
Viper
(Insert character of choice here)
I still think #8 spot belongs to Amaterasu on strength of match ups with S tier.
Karsticles
Member
I don't see why we should limit tiers to a number at all, personally. If you have 10 amazing characters of equal strength, why not have a 10-character S tier? Etc.
Edit: I really think Amaterasu is High, not Top. Akuma seems like a better choice to me, or Spencer.
Edit: I really think Amaterasu is High, not Top. Akuma seems like a better choice to me, or Spencer.
Zero & Viper were already the king and queen of A tier, I would support it either way if they were bumped into S Class on a GAF Tier List. At the same time though, execution on Viper's part and stamina on Zero's makes me hesitant to back it 100% (Maybe 90% right now.)
Without those barriers though, they'd definitely have been there even in my casual observations. (Oh wow, I called Zero being high a long fucking time ago too.)
Edit: Ooooh, Spencer as S tier... It's interesting and has some great results to back it. Right now, I wouldn't object to placing him as the new tops of A tier though.
Edit 2: I think Mags goes in between Dante & Wesker, he's just too hyper offensive and gets in almost for free most times.
Without those barriers though, they'd definitely have been there even in my casual observations. (Oh wow, I called Zero being high a long fucking time ago too.)
Edit: Ooooh, Spencer as S tier... It's interesting and has some great results to back it. Right now, I wouldn't object to placing him as the new tops of A tier though.
Edit 2: I think Mags goes in between Dante & Wesker, he's just too hyper offensive and gets in almost for free most times.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Why the fuck are we talking about how good characters are NOW it doesn't matter at this point xD
Cause firebrand is gonna tear assholes apart in a month :3
Firebrand plus what ever low hit assist plus what ever = god tier
actually you know what, Ghost rider jump S and Phoenix Wright Missile assist.... full screen unblockable set up?
Cause firebrand is gonna tear assholes apart in a month :3
Firebrand plus what ever low hit assist plus what ever = god tier
actually you know what, Ghost rider jump S and Phoenix Wright Missile assist.... full screen unblockable set up?
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
I dunno how I feel about Spencer being S tier. He has Bionic arm and nothing else really cheap, like the others that sit in the category do.
Viper and Zero should have been inducted into S a long time ago...
Viper and Zero should have been inducted into S a long time ago...
I wouldn't object much to Ammy being top 8. Very good matchups against the other top characters, and a lot of options overall. The only thing I'd say she lacks in is overall damage, but she makes up for it with having the most annoying hitbox in the game.
However, I have to agree with Karst in a way. Spencer would definitely fit top 8 really well. He has good matchups against most of the characters on that list(the only ones who I'd say give him trouble are Zero and Magneto, maybe Phoenix too), and a lot of really good options. His damage output is also really good - about on par with Wesker even, and he doesn't need assists to get there. He's also not that hard to use, either.
However, I have to agree with Karst in a way. Spencer would definitely fit top 8 really well. He has good matchups against most of the characters on that list(the only ones who I'd say give him trouble are Zero and Magneto, maybe Phoenix too), and a lot of really good options. His damage output is also really good - about on par with Wesker even, and he doesn't need assists to get there. He's also not that hard to use, either.
We don't have to limit it to a number but I feel after 8 slots the difference is noticeable.Karsticles said:
Akuma, Spencer and Amaterasu are all debatable and it's good that you brought it up. That's why I left the 8 slot blank even though there are candidates for it.
Akuma - Has great damage even on regular BnBs, top tier assist and solid anchor role. I do think he is not overall solid in point play in that there is no real versatility to his play. Most losses to Akuma are the same "get 2 characters tagged by Beam". Akuma is probably S tier if you combine strength of assists + anchor role because IMO no other character in the game has the combination as strong as that. Akuma's fight against a top tier is almost always a coin toss. Also people don't punish Tatsu spam as well as they should.
Spencer - Loses out to priority against some of the top tiers and thus has some not so great match ups. I really feel that many players are not familiar enough with the Spencer match up and continuously get hit by an obvious overhead or obvious cross up all day long. Although if the list stretched to 10 I would put him at 10. Strengths include stamina, high damage, excellent air throw game, linkable Bionic Arms, rushdown/mixups/cross ups and some legitimately "broke" technology.
Amaterasu - Depending on how you rate particular aspects, Ammy can be either S or A. She has priority and range on her normals plus small hit box and great air throw game means she can hang with the S tiers in terms of match ups. She has great utility on a team, ranging from an excellent assist, lockdown THC option, slow down hyper, DHC glitch. I also feel that Ammy isn't explored much outside of a single stance and it was only near the end of EVO that people actually expanded on another facet of her play (the Glaive Ammy essentially which I feel is more powerful than Reflector in some cases). There are only a couple Ammy specialists and I feel that they can go even further with the character. Also results are in favor of Ammy, she ends up on a winning team some how.
Other candidates for 8th spot: She Hulk and Trish. I feel that Trish is really coming in to her own and it's not just her point capabilities that should be considered it's her overall utility. Lockdown on Round Harvest and Peekaboo have crippled matches. She Hulk does not have the match up advantage but no one can question her consistency in matches won and overall general strength.
Execution simply can't be a factor in judging a character's placement on a tier list. Just like the argument I made regarding Iron Man - all Viper needed was time - and I don't even think competitive Viper (as in, the minimum execution requirement for her to be competitive) is as hard to play as Iron Man. If you know the character's potential and how well it fits into a competitive framework, you can place them.
If you only want Time to tell this story then the discussion is pointless - just point to the results and make your list.
I'm sure everyone else disagrees.
If you only want Time to tell this story then the discussion is pointless - just point to the results and make your list.
I'm sure everyone else disagrees.
Karsticles
Member
I think he has good point play, but his assist is just so good no one bothers. Akuma has good fireballs, good hypers to make him safe, mobility, really strong mixups, and teleport/invincible command dash. Tatsu spam is hard to punish because you never know what strength your opponent used.
He also has a command throw!
I think She-Hulk does well in this meta, but once I have space against her with Dormammu, I tend to keep it. F. Champ pretty much chipped her out from full to nothing tonight on an occassion (Floe, was it?).
Trish doesn't get combos off of air throws. I think that's too huge of a weakness in this game to put a character in S Tier for.
SolarPowered
Member
It's Ammy or Spencer for that spot and Ammy eeks out the win imo.
Ammy:
-fastest jab in the game
-smallest hitbox as far as I can tell
-can dash fullscreen and block no problemo
-almost full screen super that fills the screen with projectiles(fantastic setup for mixups/unblockables after XF)
-slow hyper that is useful for DHC glitch or Switch glitch with characters like Dante
-reflector mode allows easy OS throws into full combos or Okami Shuffle
-paper game allows for a great rushdown nullifying game
-reflector mode has ToD combos with XF on nearly every character
-glaive gives her sick sick normals range
-glaive allows her to have OTG combos and relaunch combos with j.DH and qcf.S
-tons of combo extension options in glaive mode using assist and slow hyper
-she can substitute air dashes with fake j.DH thanks qcf.L that cancels her diagonal sword divekick into a safe move
-Beads give her possibly better range than glaive at the cost of lower damage
-access to bead projectiles that are a decent chip tool and work very well with keepaway. You can hitconfirm into Okami Shuffle from nearly full screen without a teleport
-TAC Glitch
-DHC Glitch
-Two useful assists with cold star being one of the most used in the game
Yup, that is an S tier. The only thing that hurts her is lack of health and the fact that you can only get so far with a single weapon out of the three. She'd be TERRIFYING with an extra 150k health.
Ammy:
-fastest jab in the game
-smallest hitbox as far as I can tell
-can dash fullscreen and block no problemo
-almost full screen super that fills the screen with projectiles(fantastic setup for mixups/unblockables after XF)
-slow hyper that is useful for DHC glitch or Switch glitch with characters like Dante
-reflector mode allows easy OS throws into full combos or Okami Shuffle
-paper game allows for a great rushdown nullifying game
-reflector mode has ToD combos with XF on nearly every character
-glaive gives her sick sick normals range
-glaive allows her to have OTG combos and relaunch combos with j.DH and qcf.S
-tons of combo extension options in glaive mode using assist and slow hyper
-she can substitute air dashes with fake j.DH thanks qcf.L that cancels her diagonal sword divekick into a safe move
-Beads give her possibly better range than glaive at the cost of lower damage
-access to bead projectiles that are a decent chip tool and work very well with keepaway. You can hitconfirm into Okami Shuffle from nearly full screen without a teleport
-TAC Glitch
-DHC Glitch
-Two useful assists with cold star being one of the most used in the game
Yup, that is an S tier. The only thing that hurts her is lack of health and the fact that you can only get so far with a single weapon out of the three. She'd be TERRIFYING with an extra 150k health.
Now is probably the best time to come up with a tier list for vanilla... I don't think we will have a tournament gathering like this for vanilla again ever (where so many high profile players are at).
Also Spencer does more damage than Wesker. Wesker tops out pretty fast and Spencer can keep tagging on those Grapples for more unscaled damage. He definitely ranges in the higher damage category in the game.
Also Spencer does more damage than Wesker. Wesker tops out pretty fast and Spencer can keep tagging on those Grapples for more unscaled damage. He definitely ranges in the higher damage category in the game.
SolarKnight
Member
QisTopTier said:
Ooh, now I need to try that setup. If it works then I know what I'll be using for the week 1 UMVC3 "new chars only" tourney here :3
Karsticles
Member
Dahbomb, of interest to you:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...seasons-beatings.129045/page-101#post-6002859
I know you love those sorts of breakdowns. Is Wolverine our Yun, and pros are just getting tired of using him?
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...seasons-beatings.129045/page-101#post-6002859
I know you love those sorts of breakdowns. Is Wolverine our Yun, and pros are just getting tired of using him?
Solar's list is pretty much on the money. While Spencer has a LOT of options and crazy stuff, he doesn't have quite the amount of good tools Ammy has - though he does have a number of them. I would put him at 9th spot, though. And yeah, his damage output is better than Wesker's. I would argue that Spencer even has the advantage over Wesker in most cases.
Also, for kicks. Seven bionic arms in one combo.
Also, for kicks. Seven bionic arms in one combo.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Wright's assist has a fair amount of start-up to it, doesn't it? I would imagine someone would just use j.up/back and block the chain from GR, when missile makes it across the screen. How that's going to work with Wright in turnabout mode though, I have no idea. I don't think I saw a single one used as an assist while in it, this entire weekend.
i think you should play zero on point like offensive then dhc into task and start your defensive game, seriously ive never seen you do an extended zero combo. + the snapping but hey umvc3 is coming so its not that bad. your fine you will not have to relearn the game instead solar and i or pretty much anyone playing an offensive game needs to changesmurfx said:
A tier list must be actually useful in tournaments. And thus execution must be considered. So either you have a tier list that's useful that accounts for real distinguishing factors such as ease to play (which matters in a fast pace, mixup-based game like Marvel) or you have a theorycraft tier list that is useless and issued from God's Beards high court.Kimosabae said:
Agreed with this sentiment and nice breakdown of all of Amaterasu's tools (or close to it she has more stuff). That's pretty much why she was top 5 or top 6 but the 2 characters above her edge out in damage dished out on hit confirm.SolarPowered said:
That's not entirely true. Knowing a potential of a character is very useful and it's why people believed in characters like Viper, Trish and Zero despite unfavorable match results. The idea is that someone out there is going to surpass that execution barrier and if that happens where do these characters end up? We knew before that Viper had TODs, that she can sit on a FADC into Seismo on reaction against a B Slash or that she had inescapable unblockable set ups on incoming characters. Now the results are being displayed and "theory fighter" Viper is becoming more and more a reality.
Basically where Viper was day 1 of MVC3... Jill is right now. She is considered Mid but a lot of people swear by her that she has legit broke tech. Maybe if MVC3 was allowed to play out we would've seen the rise of Jill.
Bottom line is that for most intent and purposes... execution is weighed in but not heavily. It's one of the MANY factors in establishing a tier list and for something like MVC3 it matters a bit less because it's not too execution heavy.
Interesting breakdown and this is probably one of the first times Felicia has made it in top 8. I remember last time Felicia was in top 32 and before Josh Wong used her in top 3 of ECT3. Definitely more credence to her being in the range of High tier for the game.
First time for Super Skrull as well.
The real shocker is 1 Wolverine. WTF... haven't seen a 1 Wolverine top 8 since the days of Sentinel SSS tier. I don't know how to explain this other than most players who currently play Wolverine (like JWong) are temporarily not using him in preparation for UMVC3.
Been saying he's the Yun of MVC3 since the game came out. Although just like Yun, Wolverine isn't the best Phoenix is. Wolverine just allows you to wing it with solid fundamentals and dive kick plus superior mix ups tool like Yun. So Yun play has been dropping in AE? That's definitely a very interesting correlation.
What mix up? He has an overhead... that's about as much "mix up" as Ryu which is average to below average. He has the usual Tatsu cross ups and air j.H + Tatsu + throw OS. His mix ups should be better in UMVC3 (along with mobility) with the air Demon flip moves.
I don't really know about the frames of the Akuma teleport but I think it's only invincible in the middle portion. Probably wrong but it's not that cracked up to be because everyone sees it coming a mile away. I am a self-admitted Akuma assist whore although I can still do decent combos with him.
This is the first tournament that has not been dominated with Wolverine. The reason why everyone dropped Wolverine is because of his nerfs in UMvC3 and trying to adjust to new teams before the game drops in a month.
Wolverine is by far the best character because of his free pressure and ability to kill you in a touch without a hitch. There is no strategy for beating wolverine other than hope to god you can hit him first. With Phoenix you can always snap her in, hit her with a grab super, or throw out one of the many near full screen supers in the game to wipe out her non-existent health. Also keep in mind that the majority of top Phoenix players also have an amazing point character to push the pace. Viscant has a fantastic Wesker, Flocker has an amazing Zero, and FChamp has a really solid Dorm (although FChamp follows the meter battery strategy a lot more than the previous two).
When you look at Wolverine players like Noel Brown, once Wolverine's dead they usually break down into trying to pull random supers or other unsafe strategies to win (no, wakeup demon is not a solid strategy at all). There's almost no attempt to do anything solid with a Wolverine team. Just divekick or Beserker Slash for a 50/50 from half screen then do the day 1 ABC launch BBCS relaunch combo. Once Wolverine's gone, the crutch is gone and the majority of Wolverine players can't figure out what to do beyond that.
Wolverine is by far the best character because of his free pressure and ability to kill you in a touch without a hitch. There is no strategy for beating wolverine other than hope to god you can hit him first. With Phoenix you can always snap her in, hit her with a grab super, or throw out one of the many near full screen supers in the game to wipe out her non-existent health. Also keep in mind that the majority of top Phoenix players also have an amazing point character to push the pace. Viscant has a fantastic Wesker, Flocker has an amazing Zero, and FChamp has a really solid Dorm (although FChamp follows the meter battery strategy a lot more than the previous two).
When you look at Wolverine players like Noel Brown, once Wolverine's dead they usually break down into trying to pull random supers or other unsafe strategies to win (no, wakeup demon is not a solid strategy at all). There's almost no attempt to do anything solid with a Wolverine team. Just divekick or Beserker Slash for a 50/50 from half screen then do the day 1 ABC launch BBCS relaunch combo. Once Wolverine's gone, the crutch is gone and the majority of Wolverine players can't figure out what to do beyond that.
Wolverine isn't the best character (he's #2 though) because some character combinations give him trouble. His options are EXTREMELY limited in front of a Haggar assist. Plus once Phoenix has 5 bars, Wolverine is just another character on the roster. Zero also has Wolverine beat in terms of priority as well as Dante.
And it's been a while since Wolverine won anything. Phoenix teams have just simply been more successful as of late. The game changing aspect of having a Phoenix character on the opposite team is too difficult to ignore.
Yeah all that stuff is true. People are trying out other teams in prep for UMVC3, Wolverine does have legitimately cheap stuff but Phoenix is still the supreme bitch of the game and "the" character to beat. That's why Good vs Evil featured every character vs Phoenix... not every character vs Wolverine.
And it's been a while since Wolverine won anything. Phoenix teams have just simply been more successful as of late. The game changing aspect of having a Phoenix character on the opposite team is too difficult to ignore.
Yeah all that stuff is true. People are trying out other teams in prep for UMVC3, Wolverine does have legitimately cheap stuff but Phoenix is still the supreme bitch of the game and "the" character to beat. That's why Good vs Evil featured every character vs Phoenix... not every character vs Wolverine.
SolarPowered
Member
She Hulk is a fantastic character, but she is not as solid when she is alone. The thing about all S tier characters(even potentials we are discussing) is that they are completely self sufficient on their own. She Hulk doesn't have nearly as large a body of solo Anchor comeback history compared to Ammy and she is the more or less low S tier.
Spencer has seen a lot more solo action which makes it easier to discuss his strength on all fronts. She Hulk needs some more solo comebacks and fights before a final judgement can be made though.
Spencer has seen a lot more solo action which makes it easier to discuss his strength on all fronts. She Hulk needs some more solo comebacks and fights before a final judgement can be made though.
Did you watch the FChamp vs X-Ray FT50? X-ray was pulling off some great stuff with Ammy and his zoning with beads was legit strong. She'd be the best character in the game full stop if teleports weren't so good in this game.Dahbomb said:
SolarKnight
Member
SolarPowered said:
Do you have a link for that? X-ray's Ammy was amazing during EVO and I'd love to watch more of it. Also, I'm curious about what you're saying about his zoning with the beads.