ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Chindogg said:
Ask Marn why he always threatens to retire. Is he looking for attention? Is he emo and gets sad when he loses and wants to quit everything?
Serious questions, not trolling.
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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT3| Self-Control Support Group
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
Ask Marn why he always threatens to retire. Is he looking for attention? Is he emo and gets sad when he loses and wants to quit everything?
Serious questions, not trolling.
Who in the blue fuck can honestly look at Felicia and say low tier? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that your definition of low tier is different from mine, because if Felicia is within the bracket Chun-Li/Hsien-Ko/Haggar/Arthur reside in, there's some serious issues there. :lol
Dahbomb said:
The thing with tiers in MvC3 is unlike previous games, the gap between top/middle/low tier is very small. There are some very obvious top tier characters, then a massive middle tier, and a small obvious low tier that does still shine even against the top tier from time to time (Arthur vs Phoenix). Technically, once you get Wolverine, Phoenix, and Wesker out of the way the path is pretty wide for who follows and how closely.
scytheavatar
Member
AzureJericho said:
Haggar is mid tier and better than people give him credit for, even on point. Chun-Li/Hsien-Ko/Arthur are bottom tier and far below low tier.
My low tier is something like Iron Man/Chris/Felicia/Capt/Thor/Morrigan. These guys have their saving points unlike the bottom tier.
I think the main problem is people are looking at individual characters and not taking into account teams when they're figuring tiers. That's why I'd have to agree with Chindogg on this one.
That, plus X-factor
.
Even "super low tier" Arthur can turn into a monster as an anchor with gold armor and x-factor.
That, plus X-factor
.Even "super low tier" Arthur can turn into a monster as an anchor with gold armor and x-factor.
scytheavatar
Member
Grecco said:
I am someone who believes that execution requirement should play some part in determining a tier list, since no player is a robot that doesn't drop combos and a higher chance of dropping combos is a con that can't be ignored. And it's not possible to get a more pathetic effort/reward ratio than Chun Li.
shaowebb
Member
scytheavatar said:
This. I tried rocking her on point with Sent drone coverage and by God I could get a ton of freaking openings and combos started that would likely have killed characters if she had scaling or damage akin to half of the cast's output. You'll simply work yourself to death trying to kill someone off with her, and without an OTG its a LOT of effort to put in on her combos. Head stomp infinite was literally the most doable kill combo for her.
Chun needs less damage scaling IMO if they don't give her some kind of OTG.
Oh so you have a Bottom tier as well... that probably makes more sense.
I would say that both Felicia and X-23 are upper mid.
I will post mine for posterity.
S TIER (aka TOP tier)
Phoenix, Wolverine, Dante, Wesker, Magneto, Zero, Viper, Amaterasu
A TIER (aka HIGH/NEAR TOP tier)
Spencer, She Hulk, Taskmaster, Trish, Akuma, Dormammu, Doom
B TIER ( aka UPPER MID tier)
Storm, Sentinel, Tron, Iron Man, X-23, Felicia, Spider Man, Deadpool
C TIER (aka MID tier)
Ryu, Chris, Thor, Super Skrull, Jill, MODOK, Hulk, Haggar
D TIER (aka LOWER MID tier)
Viewtiful Joe, Morrigan, Captain America, Shuma Gorath
E/F TIER (aka Worst tier)
Hsien Ko, Arthur, Chun Li
I will even give explanation as to what a tier entails for me.
S tier is obvious... best of the best. In order to be S tier the bare minimum qualification is that the character has to be at an equal competitive level with those other characters without the use of assists. These characters excel at tools at their disposal, mix ups, damage, priority etc.
A tier are characters who basically scratch at the heels of the S tier in that they will defeat them no sweat on a given day but they will probably require an assist or two to come up at their level. A few of the A tiers are there on the strength of their assist being absurdly good like Akuma.
B tier are characters who require considerable work to be at the level of A tier. They have the tools and damage but execution requirement and just being outperformed by S tier in similar categories put them here but they have superior match ups against the latter half of the game. Tron and Sentinel are there because their assists are top and some of these characters are there due to DHC glitch.
C tier characters are the average joes. Basically if they touch you they will make it hurt and you can't sleep on them and some of them have the tools but they are also held back by genuine weaknesses or some execution requirement. They basically have something not everything... they will either have lots of damage/health but low mobility mix ups or they will have mobility/mix ups but will either lack damage or have high execution requirement just to be at A/B level.
D tier characters even if you get past their execution barrier they don't deliver the same punch as even some of the C tiers not to mention bad normals, bad throw game and bad mobility. These characters also struggle to pick up opponents after a hard knockdown even with the help of assists which over time has proven to be a helpful attribute in dishing out quick and easy damage.
E/F tier or whatever you want to call it are the worst of the worst and they suck at pretty much everything outside of a couple gimmicks that allow them to win a match or two. These 3 characters at the bare minimum have good assists and thus can be put in a team to win a match but once they are on point... you better start praying. Even if you are a robot with these characters, you can't make it hurt without X Factor/ton of meter.
I know that but even with the basic definition of a Mid/Low character... someone who is Low would have to be at least worse than half of the characters in the game or more. Someone like X-23 is better than at least 15-20 characters in the game and thus should not be considered LOW tier AT ALL.
I would say that both Felicia and X-23 are upper mid.
Iron Man is NOT low tier and neither is Chris... wtf. I wanna see your entire tier list because I think we are at a disparity as to what we both consider a "mid" character in the game.
I will post mine for posterity.
S TIER (aka TOP tier)
Phoenix, Wolverine, Dante, Wesker, Magneto, Zero, Viper, Amaterasu
A TIER (aka HIGH/NEAR TOP tier)
Spencer, She Hulk, Taskmaster, Trish, Akuma, Dormammu, Doom
B TIER ( aka UPPER MID tier)
Storm, Sentinel, Tron, Iron Man, X-23, Felicia, Spider Man, Deadpool
C TIER (aka MID tier)
Ryu, Chris, Thor, Super Skrull, Jill, MODOK, Hulk, Haggar
D TIER (aka LOWER MID tier)
Viewtiful Joe, Morrigan, Captain America, Shuma Gorath
E/F TIER (aka Worst tier)
Hsien Ko, Arthur, Chun Li
I will even give explanation as to what a tier entails for me.
S tier is obvious... best of the best. In order to be S tier the bare minimum qualification is that the character has to be at an equal competitive level with those other characters without the use of assists. These characters excel at tools at their disposal, mix ups, damage, priority etc.
A tier are characters who basically scratch at the heels of the S tier in that they will defeat them no sweat on a given day but they will probably require an assist or two to come up at their level. A few of the A tiers are there on the strength of their assist being absurdly good like Akuma.
B tier are characters who require considerable work to be at the level of A tier. They have the tools and damage but execution requirement and just being outperformed by S tier in similar categories put them here but they have superior match ups against the latter half of the game. Tron and Sentinel are there because their assists are top and some of these characters are there due to DHC glitch.
C tier characters are the average joes. Basically if they touch you they will make it hurt and you can't sleep on them and some of them have the tools but they are also held back by genuine weaknesses or some execution requirement. They basically have something not everything... they will either have lots of damage/health but low mobility mix ups or they will have mobility/mix ups but will either lack damage or have high execution requirement just to be at A/B level.
D tier characters even if you get past their execution barrier they don't deliver the same punch as even some of the C tiers not to mention bad normals, bad throw game and bad mobility. These characters also struggle to pick up opponents after a hard knockdown even with the help of assists which over time has proven to be a helpful attribute in dishing out quick and easy damage.
E/F tier or whatever you want to call it are the worst of the worst and they suck at pretty much everything outside of a couple gimmicks that allow them to win a match or two. These 3 characters at the bare minimum have good assists and thus can be put in a team to win a match but once they are on point... you better start praying. Even if you are a robot with these characters, you can't make it hurt without X Factor/ton of meter.
Ah, I see what you did there.
I always interpreted S tier as borderline broken / broken, superior to all others.
Your definition is just top tier.
I was like, man, that seems like way too many in S, I'd put Phoenix and then everyone else in A....
But, with your definition, I can see why you'd split it like that.
I always interpreted S tier as borderline broken / broken, superior to all others.
Your definition is just top tier.
I was like, man, that seems like way too many in S, I'd put Phoenix and then everyone else in A....
But, with your definition, I can see why you'd split it like that.
S TIERDahbomb said:
Dante, Wolverine, Phoenix, Wesker
A TIER
Magneto, Taskmaster, Zero, Viper, Amaterasu, Spencer, She Hulk, Akuma, Doom, Dormammu
B TIER
Spider Man, Storm, Trish, X-23, Iron Man, Tron, Sentinel
other character are really hard to put in tier well except hsienko
i just want to point out that i really mean dante is the best character in the game, i think that if the game had more time to develop dante would eventually take over the crown over logan or jean
In the right hands, Dante can already give those two characters a run for their money. Dante is one of the few who has multiple tricks to defeat Phoenix in a one-on-one, and he has tools to at least slow Wolverine down and make his approach more cautious. His main 'problems' are that he doesn't have the free get in tools that Wolverine has, and his zoning is average at best.Tobe1 said:
But I do agree with you somewhat. People are still finding out a lot of new stuff about Dante, and I personally think Dante is more or less the hard counter against Phoenix in this game. The problem is, he requires work and execution to reach that level. Execution that Wolverine/Phoenix don't require. Once you've put that work into him, though, he's good. Really good. Top 3 for certain, and I still think he's going to be at least top 10 in Ultimate.
Overall, I'd agree with most of Dahbomb's list. There would probably be a few changes I'd make here or there, but they'd mostly just be my own personal opinion rather than any hard evidence.
It's really weird... when the game first came out I knew Dante was top tier. But back then I had him at top tier for different reasons than what I have him as top tier now. Back then I valued his tracking teleport a bit too highly as well as his rushdown and combo capabilities. I realize now that what keeps him top tier is his mid space control and his versatility in match ups although having a teleport and TOD combos definitely help a lot. That's why he is still going to be good in UMVC3.
P.S. Just for shits and giggles I checked out SRK's tier list on the first page. That shit must've been a day 1 tier list... SO FUCKING WRONG!!! Why don't they update it... I think a good portion of the tier list is generally agreed upon there.
Tier list has Dante at like Low Mid... and Phoenix at bottom tier.
Ok I just read some of the last few pages and it seemed the discussion was focused more towards on X-23 (with recent results as talking points). Agreed with most of the assessment there, X-23's BOGO is too good to ignore and thus makes her way better than Mid tier.
Found this little gem in the thread.... HAHA:
P.S. Just for shits and giggles I checked out SRK's tier list on the first page. That shit must've been a day 1 tier list... SO FUCKING WRONG!!! Why don't they update it... I think a good portion of the tier list is generally agreed upon there.
Tier list has Dante at like Low Mid... and Phoenix at bottom tier.
Ok I just read some of the last few pages and it seemed the discussion was focused more towards on X-23 (with recent results as talking points). Agreed with most of the assessment there, X-23's BOGO is too good to ignore and thus makes her way better than Mid tier.
Found this little gem in the thread.... HAHA:
Swiss Army Knife Dante is what I've been calling him since launch. Dude has everything.Dahbomb said:
So... I've been trying to learn how to do Viper's Seismo Spam recently, and I'm thinking it might be impossible on pad. I can do two in a row at a fast pace, and about four at half speed... anything beyond that and my thumb simply cannot keep up and I either get a jump, or I get a Thunder Knuckle. I'll probably keep at it, though, just to improve my accuracy and my execution in general.
Frantic said:Swiss Army Knife Dante is what I've been calling him since launch. Dude has everything.
So... I've been trying to learn how to do Viper's Seismo Spam recently, and I'm thinking it might be impossible on pad. I can do two in a row at a fast pace, and about four at half speed... anything beyond that and my thumb simply cannot keep up and I either get a jump, or I get a Thunder Knuckle. I'll probably keep at it, though, just to improve my accuracy and my execution in general.
Practice makes perfect. Pad just requires more precision.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Mixups? Yes.
Keepaway? Yes.
Self OTGs? Yes
Dante can do everything in the game minus flight. Which he gains in DT if I recall.
Dante's weaknesses are unsafe normals which BMC gets rid of, low damage which BMC again gets rid of, and low health which really does not effect him so much.
Dante is a char who can do everything. Forget Jack of all Trades, he is an Ace of all Trades. Which is what the best chars outside of derperine can do. Hell, even Phoenix is an Ace of all trade plus some.
Keepaway? Yes.
Self OTGs? Yes
Dante can do everything in the game minus flight. Which he gains in DT if I recall.
Dante's weaknesses are unsafe normals which BMC gets rid of, low damage which BMC again gets rid of, and low health which really does not effect him so much.
Dante is a char who can do everything. Forget Jack of all Trades, he is an Ace of all Trades. Which is what the best chars outside of derperine can do. Hell, even Phoenix is an Ace of all trade plus some.
Professor Beef
Banned
Don't forget that Dante can start and end the DHC Glitch.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Dante, aka Ace Hardware, aka Home Depot, has damn near every tool you'd need/want. It's almost like Batman's prep time manifested itself into the form of a fighting game character.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Wait what? A g-note on Catherine? That box shit is serious.
SolarPowered
Member
That poster is hilarious. I have no idea what Dacid has gotten himself into, but I'll watch it if they stream it lol.
Mofo wouldn't know low tier if he beat them over 9,000 times.Dahbomb said:
Infinite Justice
Member
Gegz said:
Shit just got real
For Catherine?
God Damn.
Karsticles
Member
NerdJosh on release day.
Yeah, and look at PR Balrog...oh wait.
*heavy nod*
rofl
That's the best tier list I have seen so far for this game, but I think you are underestimating Hulk, MODOK, and Viewtiful Joe.
Capcom's internal list had Dante at mid tier. -_-
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Joe , x-23, jill, and Felicia have the problem of being so fucking technical to pull off their shit consistantly that they are placed lower than they should be. Viper is kinda in the same spot, but thankfully we have someone that actually uses her. Although he cant block.Karsticles said:
A great joe can literally manhandle you.
Yeah I heard about that too lol. They probably have Zero, Doom and Viper mid too that's why they are giving them buffs.
Joe and MODOK are some of the characters who can "break" out of their tier given more time and play along with Jill. Hulk is pretty much there in "solid" Mid tier. Joe is automatically in B tier for UMVC3 like I explained a page back.
Tiers are never set in stone, they are more a reflection of current tech/knowledge/skill level of players as well as tournament results + theory fighter. Even with MVC3, I have seen tiers change a lot even on a per tournament basis. If you go look at SRK now... they have basically divided S tier into like 3 categories.
GOD tier: Phoenix
S tier: Dante, Viper, Zero
Top Tier: Wesker, Magneto, Wolverine, Amaterasu
When pre-EVO everyone declared Wolverine #1 and Viper was no where close to top tier. This happens and it's a natural progression of any decent fighter. Should be very interesting for UMVC3. Also, at least for MVC3 everyone from some of C tier to above is competitively viable or has a tournament belt under them. So like people have said there isn't a HUGE difference in between tiers especially when taking out S and E tiers.
well i managed to zone the hell out of his wesker for the most part. he was using iron man too so i zoned him out easily as well. what made this frustrating was that i managed to hit confirm on dark phoenix a couple of times and dropped it. i even had a joke message written in my head if i had beaten him.Dahbomb said:
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but he is a fraud.smurfx said:
You forget the little guys like me now that you play against the big fish, eh?
MODOK and Joe each need to move up a spot. I'd say Hulk is fine where he is.Karsticles said:
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Fuck Capcom's internal tier lists. Those fuckers couldn't make a proper tier list with three years of EVO tournaments and online statistics.Karsticles said:
Probably explains why he doesn't toss an invite my way.Ultimoo said:
I get bored and lonely on Mahvel sometimes. :'(
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Did they post up the 5v5 yet, from season's beatings?
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I ask if you want to play every once in a while. I don't see you on as much these days. Work must be a bitch and a half I guess.smurfx said:
such is life
Karsticles
Member
*points to the seat next to him, which is labeled "UMvC3 PS3"*
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Getting tossed around like a ragdoll is not my idea of fun. We'll see what happens when Markman's MLG Pro circuit controller drops.Karsticles said: