The game inherently has to have more characters due to it being 2v2. SFV achieved much more with its launch roster. Balance between returning characters from the previous entry, returning characters not in the previous entry, and brand new characters. Also took time to reinvent the characters returning from the previous entry. SFV achieved this with 16 but MVC:I can't achieve this 30? That's bullshit.
Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite Characters and Stages Roster |DT2| oh dear...
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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christiankid7
Member
Yeah, its what the cover is implying. Though I'd love to see an ACTUAL Venom variant with you know, Venom fighting a Capcom character?
*codec sound*
...Wait, which Snake are you anyway?
There's also the fact that every SFV character, veterans & newcomers alike, were made from scratch.
It's not even that bad. Sure it's odd that Venom himself isn't on it, but how does that one thing suddenly negate the rest of the covers?
I mean, the spiderman/deadpool variant didnt have either of those characters on it either, it has firebrand and dormammu.
People have just begun to fly off the handle at this game over stupid shit. And that itself is stupid.
Jawmuncher
Member
A SFV character at least would mean a new newcomer
Turbanator
Member
What if the reason the Venom cover looks like shit is because it's a placeholder?
Actually, looking at Tom Raney's (the cover artist for Venom) art, his work typically looks nothing like the Venom cover. Granted, most of his online drawings are in B&W, but it seems odd how shitty the cover looks compared to his usual art. There also seem to be pebbles in the air, implying something happened to the ground, but we wouldn't know thanks to the blank background.
What if the cover is actually just unfinished to hide reveal spoilers?
Actually, looking at Tom Raney's (the cover artist for Venom) art, his work typically looks nothing like the Venom cover. Granted, most of his online drawings are in B&W, but it seems odd how shitty the cover looks compared to his usual art. There also seem to be pebbles in the air, implying something happened to the ground, but we wouldn't know thanks to the blank background.
What if the cover is actually just unfinished to hide reveal spoilers?
DaytimeWhiskey
Banned
I don't disagree with this per se, but the list of characters i would rather see before a 3rd SF rep is kinda long. He'd never replace Ryu and he shouldn't and couldn't replace Chun given her legacy and the fact that she is one of 4.
I'm just saying I'm not sad they didn't add a SFV rep
I'm right there's with you as far as all that goes, that's not the argument I'm trying to make. I'm saying SF's launch roster was a contributing factor to that game's infamously weak launch and that I don't think this game is going to suffer the same way. Fans of the series obviously have a lot to be upset about but as a package, having twice as many characters to experiment with (not to say anything of team composition or the gems, creating even more variables) along with the same steady DLC plan SFV has means the game has more content in that department and will probably look more appealing to people who might be on-the-fence and just want to have a lot of characters to play around with.
We play and see a lot of fighting games so we know that SFV had a lot more effort put into creating the roster, but having a cast twice as big as that game means it's probably more likely to bring more people in.
Neutron-Degenerate Snake.
The Spider-Man/Deadpool comic kinda featured Dormammu, back in issue 1?
Spider-Man hasn't featured in Venom since this run started.
The newcomers for the series are:
Ultron
Captain Marvel
Sigma
Black Phanter
Hunter
Jedah
X
Gamora
Umvc3 newcomers for the series where:
Hawkeye
Thor
Ghost Rider
Sir Arthur
Rocket Raccon
Albert Wesker
Amaterasu
Crimson Viper
Dante
Deadpool
Doctor Strange
Dormammu
Hsien Ko
Iron Fist
Spencer
Nemesis
Nova
Phoenix
Phoenix Wright
She-Hulk
SuperSkrull
Taskmaster
Trish
Vergil
Yes yes, of course they had to re-use assets, im not complaining. But...its feels weird to have so little new faces.
Ultron
Captain Marvel
Sigma
Black Phanter
Hunter
Jedah
X
Gamora
Umvc3 newcomers for the series where:
Hawkeye
Thor
Ghost Rider
Sir Arthur
Rocket Raccon
Albert Wesker
Amaterasu
Crimson Viper
Dante
Deadpool
Doctor Strange
Dormammu
Hsien Ko
Iron Fist
Spencer
Nemesis
Nova
Phoenix
Phoenix Wright
She-Hulk
SuperSkrull
Taskmaster
Trish
Vergil
Yes yes, of course they had to re-use assets, im not complaining. But...its feels weird to have so little new faces.
Jawmuncher
Member
That definitely is the weakest part of the game in my eyes.
To be fair (I'm saying that a lot recently) Marvel 3 and Ultimate should probably be counted separately. Still more than Infinite, tho.
Wouldn't a more fair comparison be to vanilla marvel 3, and not UMVC3 which added 12 new characters?
Like, compare infinite to ultimate once 9 months of dlc have come out.
Of course the gap between MVC2 and MCV3 pushed a lot of new faces because the times that had passed, and characters once popular where not popular anymore. But c'mon man...If Capcom is re-using assets, doesn't that mean we should get new characters? brand-new or all-new different (lol) characters? but instead we are getting 8 new faces...again, i'm not saying the newcomers are bad, in fact im excited for almost all of them...but they are too little in my eyes.
TheDinoman
Member
You forgot Haggar and Firebrand lol
Doctrine Dark
Member
Thinking about this game outside of gameplay makes my head hurt.
I feel like I defend this game a lot but iust to be clear I agree the roster is pretty shit and the number of newcomers is inexcusable. Before the game launched I was thinking "man, I really hope they reuse assets so the roster can be huge", the same way Smash 4 did. I love every character in 3 and I think they all deserve to come back. But to bring back half the characters and add only 6 or 7 characters that weren't in 3 is definitely not what I wanted.
That said it's been obvious since they announced their season pass that their approach is going to be putting out the bare minimum at first and rounding everything out with DLC later. I guess I just made my peace with that a while ago since it's pretty similar to what they did with SFV (which, a year and a half later, has a great number of newcomers and the only fan favorites left are Sagat and Sakura). I'm willing to play the game and have fun with it while we wait to see how it grows.
That said it's been obvious since they announced their season pass that their approach is going to be putting out the bare minimum at first and rounding everything out with DLC later. I guess I just made my peace with that a while ago since it's pretty similar to what they did with SFV (which, a year and a half later, has a great number of newcomers and the only fan favorites left are Sagat and Sakura). I'm willing to play the game and have fun with it while we wait to see how it grows.
What? No.
New in MvC3:FoTW
Wesker
Amaterasu
Arthur
Chris
C. Viper
Dante
Deadpool
Dormammu
Hsien-Ko
Haggar
M.O.D.O.K.
Spencer
Phoenix
She-Hulk
Super Skrull
Taskmaster
Thor
Trish
Viewtiful Joe
X-23
Zero
New in UMvC3
Doctor Strange
Firebrand
Frank West
Ghost Rider
Hawkeye
Iron Fist
Nemesis
Nova
Phoenix Wright
Rocket Raccoon
Vergil
New in MvCI
Captain Marvel
Gamora
Hunter (Maybe)
Jedah
Ultron
X
Black Panther (DLC)
Sigma (DLC)
DLC
DLC
DLC
DLC
It just doesn't compare.
Yes. I quickly went off of his list, thinking he had all of them, and then subtracted 12 (you left out strider) which is what we got in ultimate. then i realized he was missing people so i removed that edit.
Jawmuncher
Member
It's fair. I don't think (in this thread anyway) that anyone is against said defense. We just all have our own thresholds. For some so long as that gameplay is ace they're good to go. More casual players just need a story mode and the last bit just want to play their fav or new characters.
I'm in the latter. The game having so little newcomers is a real pity. But with Mon Hun and Venom (I'm just counting him since he's never been in 3D) that's enough for me to cut the game some slack.
If they don't make the base roster though. I can wait. I'll still play it at some point.
I see that now, sorry. I'd already quoted you.
The problem with SFV is that if I wanted to buy the game today, I'd have to pay ~$80 to get all of the characters in a bundle, 'cause lord knows that if you want to jump in today the grind to get all of the characters would be waaay too much.
That being said, Sagat and Sakura are coming with S3 and that's A-OK in my book.
Doctrine Dark
Member
I understand your stance, Saikyo. I'm excited to play MVCI.
I just sit back sometimes and wonder why Capcom insists on making things so hard for themselves. I know so many people who talk mad shit about this game, but deep down...they really wanna love it because they can see the potential of the system. Capcom just seems adamant on doing anything humanly possible to piss people off. It's unbelievable to me.
I just sit back sometimes and wonder why Capcom insists on making things so hard for themselves. I know so many people who talk mad shit about this game, but deep down...they really wanna love it because they can see the potential of the system. Capcom just seems adamant on doing anything humanly possible to piss people off. It's unbelievable to me.
Doctrine Dark
Member
Define "better game".
If the game is already good, wouldn't further characters just add to that?
If the game is already good, wouldn't further characters just add to that?
Absolutely a salient point. Comparing those together is unfair. But even apart, there's a stark contrast between base 3 and Infinite, I think.
Jawmuncher
Member
Yep. I I Wouldn't be in this thread if I didn't see the redeeming qualities.
But the game doesn't need to get better? The gameplay is already good, and quite fun, according to pretty much damn near everyone that has played it. Expanding the roster only makes it better.
Unless the graphics matter to you to the point that you cant enjoy the gameplay or something.
Yeah I definitely agree that that's a problem, jumping into these games later on is really difficult when you're missing upward of half the cast. Unfortunately it's become the expectation at this point (NRS games are all getting season passes at this point, Smash 4 + all of its character DLC would be close to $100, etc.). SFV is a little bit better about this than a lot of games because of the FM system but it seems like no one else is really interested in that model at the moment.
It's not really an excuse for Capcom but it's pretty hard to avoid when they're also expected to give the game a long lifespan. At least there will probably be a price drop by Christmas, lol
Jawmuncher
Member
Nah that probably is the venom cover. It's not uncommon for variants to be really out of left field.
Not gonna lie, I'm digging that old man Zero cover.
Female Thor alt would be awesome. That's the kind of stuff I want to see, but I have a hard time seeing how it would work when it comes to hurtboxes since the proportions are different from male Thor.
Also, lol @ that Venom cover. jeez.
Female Thor alt would be awesome. That's the kind of stuff I want to see, but I have a hard time seeing how it would work when it comes to hurtboxes since the proportions are different from male Thor.
Also, lol @ that Venom cover. jeez.
It's also entirely possible that Marvel & Capcom actually wised up for once & kept Venom as a surprise, but that remains to be seen.
Female Thor does fight somewhat differently compared to Thor, so her being her own character is entirely possible. Same for Miles, especially when he was one of the cut characters for UMvC3.
I really do wonder if things would have been better had they not put so much effort into the story and just put out a base game with a massive roster.
They looked at NRS' success and thought it was the story mode they needed to take them over the edge, but they had to make sacrifices along the way due to budget, inexperience, or what have you. But I feel like this game would have also gotten shit for doing MvC3 all over again, and even if they did that we probably wouldn't have gotten X-Men base and that's probably the biggest complaint for the game. Not only that, but Marvel Games keeps reiterating that story story story is at the core of everything they do. That bit was inevitable.
We've all written lengthy lists of the causes of why the state of MvC:I is what it is pre-release because of things Marvel and Capcom won't budge on, but man, I'm not sure what they could have done if they only had an AA budget to work with. Things would be more or less preferable to people, and PR could have definitely avoided some terrible mistakes, but I don't know if this game could have ever been the game to bring Capcom back or reach the expectations of MvC3. That probably drove the decision not to make it MvC4 in the first place.
I guess I'm excited just to have it, and would rather have it than not have it. Where Marvel and Capcom are as companies at this moment is not conducive to a proper MvC4, so I can rationalize the existence of a relatively budget B title like this, and enjoy it for what it is. This is like, one of my favourite franchises of all time so I was basically in no matter what (but the game also looks super fun to me), but despite that personal investment, I get many of the gripes and frustrations here, especially for a fully priced title. I just hope if/when the game gets to a point where people are satisfied with it, they do jump in, and stay in. But I have my doubts about that. I don't have faith in any GaaS title recovering from a commercial launch failure. This game needs that community to begin with.
They looked at NRS' success and thought it was the story mode they needed to take them over the edge, but they had to make sacrifices along the way due to budget, inexperience, or what have you. But I feel like this game would have also gotten shit for doing MvC3 all over again, and even if they did that we probably wouldn't have gotten X-Men base and that's probably the biggest complaint for the game. Not only that, but Marvel Games keeps reiterating that story story story is at the core of everything they do. That bit was inevitable.
We've all written lengthy lists of the causes of why the state of MvC:I is what it is pre-release because of things Marvel and Capcom won't budge on, but man, I'm not sure what they could have done if they only had an AA budget to work with. Things would be more or less preferable to people, and PR could have definitely avoided some terrible mistakes, but I don't know if this game could have ever been the game to bring Capcom back or reach the expectations of MvC3. That probably drove the decision not to make it MvC4 in the first place.
I guess I'm excited just to have it, and would rather have it than not have it. Where Marvel and Capcom are as companies at this moment is not conducive to a proper MvC4, so I can rationalize the existence of a relatively budget B title like this, and enjoy it for what it is. This is like, one of my favourite franchises of all time so I was basically in no matter what (but the game also looks super fun to me), but despite that personal investment, I get many of the gripes and frustrations here, especially for a fully priced title. I just hope if/when the game gets to a point where people are satisfied with it, they do jump in, and stay in. But I have my doubts about that. I don't have faith in any GaaS title recovering from a commercial launch failure. This game needs that community to begin with.
christiankid7
Member
It would make sense to leave Venom as a surprise and it would also explain why Black Panther is on variants and DLC, but he is not.
But....that's being hopeful
But....that's being hopeful
Doctrine Dark
Member
I really hope Venom and Monster Hunter don't end up being DLC. I feel like that would be the most disastrous development for this game.
Same, mostly.
This game looks like a ton of fun, and I love this series so much that I want it to succeed. And I'm critical (probably a bit annoyingly so) but I'd like to think I'm not negative for no reason. And I hope it gets to a state that I can justify to myself spending money on.
If the art is this bad no wonder people haven't been paying attention.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Only reason why Marvel Vs Capcom 3 got so many newcomers because they literally had no choice to start from scratch with their assets so it allowed them to start all over again with the roster. Once they did that for MVC3, and I just knew that they are going to reuse the data they had for MVC3 for MVC4. It's predictable.
Yet, people still remember bad arts so easily, like Cap America Chest picture.
Yet, people still remember bad arts so easily, like Cap America Chest picture.
Turbanator
Member
But it's out of left field even for the artist himself. There are iffy details, and the drawing itself doesn't match the artist's style.
Spinosaurus
Member
Zero and Joe aren't really newcomers.
Frank West as well, though with the changes he got he might as well be.
We are never going to have a Marvel 3 type situation again where we had so many newcomers.
Marvel 2's roster was never that great to begin with, too many missing holes and franchises. Going forward you aren't going to be missing out on the franchises.
Like Marvel 2 not having Thor in the game was a big deal even back in the day so Marvel 3 was obviously going to have Thor in it, same for Marvel Infinite.
With Marvel Infinite out, we have consolidated to the must have veterans of both sides. Like there is no way Capcom is ever going to put out a VS game without Dante in it. The same applies to other veterans, they are just too big and known to cut so they have to be in the game.
That leaves less room for newcomers. It was inevitable for a future Marvel game after 4.
They still could have done better with the newcomer to veterans ratio but remember... every time they remove a veteran for a newcomer, someone will get upset. Look at how many people started getting mad at the thought of no Zero in this game.
Marvel 2's roster was never that great to begin with, too many missing holes and franchises. Going forward you aren't going to be missing out on the franchises.
Like Marvel 2 not having Thor in the game was a big deal even back in the day so Marvel 3 was obviously going to have Thor in it, same for Marvel Infinite.
With Marvel Infinite out, we have consolidated to the must have veterans of both sides. Like there is no way Capcom is ever going to put out a VS game without Dante in it. The same applies to other veterans, they are just too big and known to cut so they have to be in the game.
That leaves less room for newcomers. It was inevitable for a future Marvel game after 4.
They still could have done better with the newcomer to veterans ratio but remember... every time they remove a veteran for a newcomer, someone will get upset. Look at how many people started getting mad at the thought of no Zero in this game.
I wasn't exactly counting "new" as in "made from scratch" otherwise I'd also be counting Jill. I was counting "new to the series as playable" period.
Either way, the comparison still mostly stands.
Well, yeah, Marvel comics is kind of spinning its wheels right now. DC is killing them.
TheDinoman
Member
Said this before, but I did think that outside of no Mega Man, the Capcom side of UMVC3 was perfect. I wouldn't been that upset of them reusing so many veterans and assets had they basically just brought back everyone lol (except for obviously X-Men/FF of course).
christiankid7
Member
updated
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=243459870&postcount=2322
I think that's all. Should I convert them to imgur files now?
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=243459870&postcount=2322
I think that's all. Should I convert them to imgur files now?
Jawmuncher
Member
All I can say is, I'd never thought this would be Bengus Art. Sometimes artist's get rushed or payed too little.
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