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[brotkasten]

Spoiler

The scene where Kilgrave gets injected with his 'power up' left on a sort of cliffhanger and had me thinking "uh-oh, shit's about to get real. Are they going to turn his skin purple like in the comics?" It wouldn't have made much sense, but it would have made for a nice bit of fan service and it would have made his appearance become more monsterous and inhuman to match his personality. Yeah, it turned out to be a bunch of nothing. Ah well.

First of all, could you please quote my post again? I just realized that it actually contains an kinda big spoiler, so I edited the post accordingly.

As for that part in episode 10 or 11

Spoiler

That was pretty much the same reaction I had. He was getting injected with it and the neck was glowing purple, so I really thought they'd go there. Like you said, even if it was just for the fan service. Considering it's in the MCU, it wouldn't even be that weird to see. But it really turned out to be nothing and I was definitely disappointed that there were no obvious changes.

They definitely fucked up using Killgrave so early as they had to artificially stretch the plot so many times.

The fact that they had him so many times in captivity and he got off every single time was just bad. They should've dropped the first time and the plot surrounding it entirely.

 

[DeathyBoy]

They definitely fucked up using Killgrave so early as they had to artificially stretch the plot so many times.

Spoiler

They didn't fuck up at all.

Kilgrave wasn't the real villain, he was just a means to an end. The real enemy was Jessica's self-loathing, anxiety and depression. Kilgrave may have broke her, but she was already damaged by what happened to her family. She had guilt over that, and a crappy time with Mrs Walker, and rushed into the superhero thing because of Trish. She did it half-assed to escape her shitty life and hatred of authority, and Kilgrave took advantage of that. Yes, he has mind control, but the flashback scene on the rooftop suggests Jessica could hope for rescue but didn't believe she'd ever be free - even if she had a moment where it was possible. I don't think she even broke free because of guilt, so much as realising she CHOSE to kill after being given am ambiguous command.

I mean, she spends the rest of the show fighting being a killer. It's not about saving Hope so much as her not wanting to admit that she is a murderer. She realised that at the end, that she kills Kilgrave with ease and then... nothing has changed. She doesn't feel closure or relief because he was never really the problem, just a pathetic and weak man. With him gone, she has no purpose or excuse. Now she's just an alcoholic murderer who everyone calls a hero, even though she did a bunch of fucked up shit that boiled down to anti climatically (on purpose by the writers to convey how pointless it was) take down a git in a purple suit.

And as someone with anxiety and self-loathing, I'd say the show does a brilliant job of pointing out that you can control it, but curing it? That's a different story.

 

[Mix Master]

im on the Final Episode

Can we get a Kilgrave TV Show? Tennant is too god damn good to be wasted on this stunted cast. Barring Luke and Trish

Barring Tennant and Mayyybe the chick who plays trish the acting was spotty. Ritter was Intimidating and boring at the same time.

Cut the God Damn Episodes Down, DD Lost Steam at the End, and JJ Lost steam at the end, The Marvel/Netflix People are clearly having diffuculty with the episode count so just whittle it down a bit.

The Flash, AoS, ETc can have filler episodes as they air weekly and have 22 episodes but when you have 13 and all episodes are day 1 you have to do better.

Would Love to See Osborn Recuit Kilgrave for the Thunderbolts if he comes back.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Whole season spoilers...

Spoiler

They didn't fuck up at all.

Kilgrave wasn't the real villain, he was just a means to an end. The real enemy was Jessica's self-loathing, anxiety and depression. Kilgrave may have broke her, but she was already damaged by what happened to her family. She had guilt over that, and a crappy time with Mrs Walker, and rushed into the superhero thing because of Trish. She did it half-assed to escape her shitty life and hatred of authority, and Kilgrave took advantage of that. Yes, he has mind control, but the flashback scene on the rooftop suggests Jessica could hope for rescue but didn't believe she'd ever be free - even if she had a moment where it was possible. I don't think she even broke free because of guilt, so much as realising she CHOSE to kill after being given am ambiguous command.

I mean, she spends the rest of the show fighting being a killer. It's not about saving Hope so much as her not wanting to admit that she is a murderer. She realised that at the end, that she kills Kilgrave with ease and then... nothing has changed. She doesn't feel closure or relief because he was never really the problem, just a pathetic and weak man. With him gone, she has no purpose or excuse. Now she's just an alcoholic murderer who everyone calls a hero, even though she did a bunch of fucked up shit that boiled down to anti climatically (on purpose by the writers to convey how pointless it was) take down a git in a purple suit.

And as someone with anxiety and self-loathing, I'd say the show does a brilliant job of pointing out that you can control it, but curing it? That's a different story.

I agree with all of this except

Spoiler

I don't think the ambiguous kill command was necessarily ambiguous. Kilgrave seemed to be able to get specific behavior elsewhere with ambiguous commands, and when he brings this up I think he's just fucking with her. See also his repeated assertions that he never killed anyone.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Whole season spoilers...




I agree with all of this except

Spoiler

I don't think the ambiguous kill command was necessarily ambiguous. Kilgrave seemed to be able to get specific behavior elsewhere with ambiguous commands, and when he brings this up I think he's just fucking with her. See also his repeated assertions that he never killed anyone.

Part of the ambiguity genius. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth, either way he's relishing the control he has over Jessica.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Part of the ambiguity genius. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth, either way he's relishing the control he has over Jessica.

Agreed 100%, and are you calling me genius sarcastically or is there a word missing?

 

[HeySeuss]

Only have 2 episodes left after binge watching it the last 2 days. I put it a notch below daredevil, but still enjoyable.

I thought Luke was a more interesting character than Jessica. I wished they would have had Jessica do more PI stiff as filler to tie things in better. Like the support group never really got fleshed out, they were just kinda there for the one episode where they

Spoiler

tried to hang themselves

.

Kilgrave is cool so far but he could do way more cool stuff like the police department scene to really showcase his power more on a wider scale. But all in all its pretty good, no real complaints.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Agreed 100%, and are you calling me genius sarcastically or is there a word missing?

It came out wrong, I was trying to convey that the show nailed ambiguity. Good as Daredevil was, they had Foggy as a genuinely good guy. Jessica Jones just had degrees of fucked up-ness from Kilgrave down to Trish. No one escaped that looking heroic.

 

[Vermillion]

After reading comments about this show, I realize exactly how many of it's "sillier" plot points are because it's trying to hit a particular theme. This includes

Spoiler

the vagueness of Jessica's escape from Kilgrave's control.

I guess it's less "come in from the comic reader" perspective and more "come in looking at everything as a metaphor for abuse." From the latter perspective, most everything makes sense

Spoiler

(including why Kilgrave never turns purple, I've seen).

 

[The Artisan]

Spoiler

they didn't really explain how jessica gained immunity to his mind control. unless i missed something.

 

[Jarmel]

Spoiler

They didn't fuck up at all.

Kilgrave wasn't the real villain, he was just a means to an end. The real enemy was Jessica's self-loathing, anxiety and depression. Kilgrave may have broke her, but she was already damaged by what happened to her family. She had guilt over that, and a crappy time with Mrs Walker, and rushed into the superhero thing because of Trish. She did it half-assed to escape her shitty life and hatred of authority, and Kilgrave took advantage of that. Yes, he has mind control, but the flashback scene on the rooftop suggests Jessica could hope for rescue but didn't believe she'd ever be free - even if she had a moment where it was possible. I don't think she even broke free because of guilt, so much as realising she CHOSE to kill after being given am ambiguous command.

I mean, she spends the rest of the show fighting being a killer. It's not about saving Hope so much as her not wanting to admit that she is a murderer. She realised that at the end, that she kills Kilgrave with ease and then... nothing has changed. She doesn't feel closure or relief because he was never really the problem, just a pathetic and weak man. With him gone, she has no purpose or excuse. Now she's just an alcoholic murderer who everyone calls a hero, even though she did a bunch of fucked up shit that boiled down to anti climatically (on purpose by the writers to convey how pointless it was) take down a git in a purple suit.

And as someone with anxiety and self-loathing, I'd say the show does a brilliant job of pointing out that you can control it, but curing it? That's a different story.

Much of that could have been done without him then.

Spoiler

they didn't really explain how jessica gained immunity to his mind control. unless i missed something.

Comic book magic.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Much of that could have been done without him then.

Not really. He's still a key part of the story, but he's the equivalent of Sylar/Linderman in Heroes S1... manifestations of the themes inherent in the show. In Heroes case it was how power corrupts people, portrayed by a guy obsessed with gaining power and a guy who considered himself God. In Jessica Jones case, Kilgrave is a manifestation of how dangerous it is controlling people.

That and there'll never be a superhero adaptation without a villain the 'hero' can punch. Audiences wouldn't accept it for a second. Shit, look how many people here on Gaf bitched about the fight scenes on this show, comparing them to Daredevil despite the fact that Jessica Jones is a detective show, and Daredevil is a show about ninjas.

 

[FiggyCal]

I don't know how people in this show are having so much sex when people's lives are at risk.

 

[Jarmel]

Not really. He's still a key part of the story, but he's the equivalent of Sylar/Linderman in Heroes S1... manifestations of the themes inherent in the show. In Heroes case it was how power corrupts people, portrayed by a guy obsessed with gaining power and a guy who considered himself God. In Jessica Jones case, Kilgrave is a manifestation of how dangerous it is controlling people.

That and there'll never be a superhero adaptation without a villain the 'hero' can punch. Audiences wouldn't accept it for a second. Shit, look how many people here on Gaf bitched about the fight scenes on this show, comparing them to Daredevil despite the fact that Jessica Jones is a detective show, and Daredevil is a show about ninjas.

I don't accept that argument as that would imply superheroes shows are doomed to be a certain way or have to take a particular approach. Killgrave is vastly overexposed in the show causing multiple scenarios that are super contrived just so the show runs 13 episodes. They could have used him indirectly thus touching on many of the themes without having him be in person for many of the scenarios. Much of what you stated could have just as easily been done through intermediaries.

Also being a type of show doesn't excuse away weak elements in the work.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

After reading comments about this show, I realize exactly how many of it's "sillier" plot points are because it's trying to hit a particular theme. This includes

Spoiler

the vagueness of Jessica's escape from Kilgrave's control.

I guess it's less "come in from the comic reader" perspective and more "come in looking at everything as a metaphor for abuse." From the latter perspective, most everything makes sense

Spoiler

(including why Kilgrave never turns purple, I've seen).

I got this from the onset, and it's the main reason I like it more than Daredevil. It's more ambitious, even if it's not quite as solid on the plot aspects. That, and as mentioned, about controlling people and the ramifications of that.

 

[FiggyCal]

I got this from the onset, and it's the main reason I like it more than Daredevil. It's more ambitious, even if it's not quite as solid on the plot aspects. That, and as mentioned, about controlling people and the ramifications of that.

More ambitious in what way?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

More ambitious in what way?

Thematically. Daredevil is good that way too, but this takes it to another level.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I don't accept that argument as that would imply superheroes shows are doomed to be a certain way or have to take a particular approach. Killgrave is vastly overexposed in the show causing multiple scenarios that are super contrived just so the show runs 13 episodes. They could have used him indirectly thus touching on many of the themes without having him be in person for many of the scenarios. Much of what you stated could have just as easily been done through intermediaries.

Also being a type of show doesn't excuse away weak elements in the work.

Except the complaint is 'Daredevil did it better.' Like no shit Daredevil did it better, the point of the character Daredevil is that he's had ninja training. He's naturally going to be a better, more expressive fighter than Jessica, who's never had to train because punching people suffices. And the choreography reflects that.

 

[DeathyBoy]

More ambitious in what way?

Maturity.

Daredevil, good as it is, is still rooted in the idea that the hero is better than the villain. Shit happens, but S1 ends on a kinda happy note. Jessica Jones ends on a 'we won... kinda' note.

But that's the difference between the characters. Matt defends people in court, so he has to believe people are genuinely good; Jessica's a detective, so she believes people are inherently bad. As bad as things get for Matthew, he has Foggy as a genuinely good man; as bad as things get for Jessica, she has...

Spoiler

Malcolm, a good man in theory who in actuality helped Jessica cover up one of Kilgrave's murders then lied to the dead guys sister that he was still alive.

 

[Jarmel]

Except the complaint is 'Daredevil did it better.' Like no shit Daredevil did it better, the point of the character Daredevil is that he's had ninja training. He's naturally going to be a better, more expressive fighter than Jessica, who's never had to train because punching people suffices. And the choreography reflects that.

Considering I don't see people complaining about the bar brawl and instead the bad choreography in episode 5, that's less people expecting JJ to do kung-fu but rather them expecting the fight choreographers to be semi-competent.

 

[The Artisan]

Comic book magic.

:\

 

[Evil's Bane]

Ironically I feel like Jessica Jones being more ambitious is what undid it in a lot of ways. It tried to tackle too many subplots and themes and it makes the whole thing feel...bloated, I guess. I still think it's good, but it doesn't touch Daredevil.

 

[The Artisan]

Ironically I feel like Jessica Jones being more ambitious is what undid it in a lot of ways. It tried to tackle too many subplots and themes and it makes the whole thing feel...bloated, I guess. I still think it's good, but it doesn't touch Daredevil.

I agree, I think. It does not touch the bar that daredevil set, but it is still a good show. the pacing wasn't so great and I don't like how they handled the minor characters.

in fact, malcolm was probably my favorite character.

 

[Mix Master]

Medical Question

Spoiler

Can Kilgrave survive a snapped neck? Tennant is too good for the MCU to lose

 

[DeathyBoy]

Considering I don't see people complaining about the bar brawl and instead the bad choreography in episode 5, that's less people expecting JJ to do kung-fu but rather them expecting the fight choreographers to be semi-competent.

After Heroes S3 and the 'battle to end all battles taking place behind a closed door', I redefined truly bad choreography.

 

[The Artisan]

Medical Question

Spoiler

Can Kilgrave survive a snapped neck? Tennant is too good for the MCU to lose

Spoiler

No. Unless, again, they do "comic book magic". His superpowers don't grant him any physical powers, I don't think.

 

[Vermillion]

I got this from the onset, and it's the main reason I like it more than Daredevil. It's more ambitious, even if it's not quite as solid on the plot aspects. That, and as mentioned, about controlling people and the ramifications of that.

I guess it makes it weird commenting from the comic reading perspective. 'Cause you're looking for some cool nods and stuff, but then it turns out that entire perception is incorrect from the outset. Like... I got the obvious metaphors, but the more I see various nitpicks and criticisms explained by metaphor, the more I realize that.

Still a great show.

 

[Evil's Bane]

I agree, I think. It does not touch the bar that daredevil set, but it is still a good show. the pacing wasn't so great and I don't like how they handled the minor characters.

in fact, malcolm was probably my favorite character.

I liked watching Malcom's arc play out but at the same time he kind of doesn't have a personality. It's like they remembered to put in everything about the character except that.

 

[The Artisan]

I liked watching Malcom's arc play out but at the same time he kind of doesn't have a personality. It's like they remembered to put in everything about the character except that.

Yeah I can understand that as well, they made him sort of bland. Maybe that's not the actor's fault though - perhaps his full potential is yet to be seen in some other role.

 

[Luigi87]

Just watched episode 12..

Spoiler

The delivery of "Heard it? I wrote it!... Surprise!" was so absolutely perfect and hilarious. In spite of some issues the series has had such as dragging it the plot, David Tennant's performance has been absolutely stellar.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Yeah I can understand that as well, they made him sort of bland. Maybe that's not the actor's fault though - perhaps his full potential is yet to be seen in some other role.

To be fair to the actor...

Spoiler

The character went from drug addict to support group to Jessica's reluctant confidant in what... maybe a month? Dude's probably going to get a slight rework in S2.

 

[Mix Master]

Whoever did the Purple Man's Wardrobe needs a Raise
Whomever did the fight scenes and choreography needs a demotion.

 

[The Artisan]

To be fair to the actor...

Spoiler

The character went from drug addict to support group to Jessica's reluctant confidant in what... maybe a month? Dude's probably going to get a slight rework in S2.

I think he's gonna continue being what he was by the end of the show.

Spoiler

They were kind of showing how both he and claire share a perspective so maybe they'll have similar roles in their respective shows.

Key difference though being that malcolm is an original character, I think. He wasn't in the comics nor is he really replacing a role in the comics either.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I think he's gonna continue being what he was by the end of the show.

Spoiler

They were kind of showing how both he and claire share a perspective so maybe they'll have similar roles in their respective shows.

Key difference though being that malcolm is an original character, I think. He wasn't in the comics nor is he really replacing a role in the comics either.

He's based on the guy in the Alias comics who tries to hit on Jess/yells at Jarvis on her phone. But it's a name-only thing. I'm guessing him/Claire will be the Coulson/Maria Hill for The Defenders.

 

[eastx]

Key difference though being that malcolm is an original character, I think. He wasn't in the comics nor is he really replacing a role in the comics either.

To add to DeathyBoy's response, here's the Wiki page on Malcolm from the comics. http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Malcolm_Powder_(Earth-616)

 

[FiggyCal]

I liked watching Malcom's arc play out but at the same time he kind of doesn't have a personality. It's like they remembered to put in everything about the character except that.

I like his look. I just don't understand why Jessica was so open to him sleeping in her apartment. "I was high" is not an excuse and she seemed so intolerant of everyone else's bullshit.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I like his look. I just don't understand why Jessica was so open to him sleeping in her apartment. "I was high" is not an excuse and she seemed so intolerant of everyone else's bullshit.

Spoiler

They imply Trish had a drug problem too, so Jessica's probably just sensitive to it. Which Kilgrave would know.

 

[The Artisan]

He's based on the guy in the Alias comics who tries to hit on Jess/yells at Jarvis on her phone. But it's a name-only thing. I'm guessing him/Claire will be the Coulson/Maria Hill for The Defenders.

To add to DeathyBoy's response, here's the Wiki page on Malcolm from the comics. http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Malcolm_Powder_(Earth-616)

oh cool, I did not know this. this changes things a bit.

Spoiler

but as far as claire and malcolm being the "gatherers" for a lack of a better term, there's still luke cage and maybe iron fist. unless claire & malcolm have big roles in either of those shows, there'll likely be a character like them featured.

EDIT: malcolm's last name on the show is different from the comic book character, but that probably doesn't mean much.

 

[Pachimari]

I forgot who Malcolm is on the show?

 

[Shaanyboi]

I forgot who Malcolm is on the show?

Junkie neighbor

 

[The Artisan]

you know when I first saw him I immediately thought of the weeknd

how funny would it be if the weeknd had a supporting role in a superhero show. lol

hell that could be one reason why he's my favorite

 

[Pachimari]

Junkie neighbor

Oh yeah that guy. Hope to see more of him.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The episode where the

Spoiler

support group decides to beat up Jessica nearly had me in tears with how awful it was. I had to pause the episode and walk around the house ranting for a minute or two to try to make sense of it. What were they thinking? Dumb.

Otherwise, a decent show with some very solid moments but also some very idiotic ones as well. I'd place it well below Daredevil.

Spoiler

like a hurt the ones who are trying to help the most kind of thing? I can see that. I guess I didn't like the way it was handled. I also didn't care for the scene (in a later episode?) where Malcom suddenly turns on Jessica and tells her he needs to get away from her. Felt like I missed something. I genuinely started thinking that everyone was still under Kilgrave's control after his powers became greater. Turns out that wasn't the case. Just confusing overall.

Yeah I see what you're saying, but those moments are ultra-real for people who have suffered abuse and tried to get support for it. All of the distrust really does just come out of nowhere like that. People don't know who's bullshitting who when the stakes get that high.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Yeah I see what you're saying, but those moments are ultra-real for people who have suffered abuse and tried to get support for it. All of the distrust really does just come out of nowhere like that. People don't know who's bullshitting who when the stakes get that high.

The problem is that the show didn't earn it. To me, it truly doesn't matter if people would really be like this or that, or say this or that, or whatever. All that matters is the show makes me believe it is something that would've happened. And it didn't. I was of the same opinion as many others and assumed Kilgrave must have them under control still. When it clicked that they weren't, I was utterly stunned at the stupidity of it all.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The problem is that the show didn't earn it. To me, it truly doesn't matter if people would really be like this or that, or say this or that, or whatever. All that matters is the show makes me believe it is something that would've happened. And it didn't. I was of the same opinion as many others and assumed Kilgrave must have them under control still. When it clicked that they weren't, I was utterly stunned at the stupidity of it all.

Yeah, I can understand how people think the show didn't earn it. It really was just out of nowhere, and it felt like all these characters just existed to be plot devices for this one moment.

Spoiler

I thought it was realistic though how one outsider comes in and says "have any of you considered she might actually be the problem here" and everyone believes. It was a very literal recreation of victim blaming in abuse situations and how the rapist gaslights everyone into not being sure of anything anymore.

 

[Peru]

Finally getting started on this, first episode only. What the show does really well so far, which is basically THE thing to get right for a show, is making me interested in the world - in the streetcorners, the people out at night, the neighbours, the circle of life in the city.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

We watched the first couple of episodes, enjoyed them both, and am now bracing for the downward spiral.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I thought it was decent overall, better than Daredevil in pretty much every area except for the action scenes and cinematography. Krysten Ritter proved to be a solid lead and David Tennant as Kilgrave was a compelling and believably threatening villain, much better than any of the other MCU villains barring Loki. Mike Colter did a good job as Luke Cage as well. I liked that it didn't feel like a superhero show, but instead like a crime show involving people with powers.

(full season)

Spoiler

A lot of the side stuff wasn't very well executed though (Robyn, the lesbian love triangle, random cop who is secretly a super soldier) and quite a few the storylines felt like filler.

I think that, like Daredevil, Jessica Jones would have greatly benefited from having about 4 fewer episodes and/or by delaying the introduction of the Hope Schlottman case and Kilgrave by a few episodes: start the season with a couple case of the week type episodes to let us get a better feel for the characters and the world and then bring in Kilgrave at the end of maybe episode 4, which would play out the same way as the pilot. It would have made for a much tighter season long arc and most likely would have discouraged the story from veering towards the frustrating

Spoiler

"Kilgrave has been captured! And then he escaped! Kilgrave has been captured again! And he escaped again!"

nonsense that bogged down the second half of the season.

 

[BeforeU]

I just saw the first episode, did she wipe her ass or not? is all I was thinking about the entire time. Jesus. I will not be okay until they show her take a shower now.

 

[likedamaster]

I'm afraid I'm gonna need a couple more episodes *scratch scratch*. Seriously, when's the next season I can't wait.