Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins

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Palette Swap said:
Seeing that pleased me, and cemented my belief that Bendis had never read the other Secret Wars books when he wrote that Ultimate End pile of shit. The last issue was incredibly off in its characterization of
Doom, who's just the usual tyrant who robbed everyone of their freedom and thoughts
.
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It's not super surprising, honestly.
Hickman's Victor has always been more of an arrogant, but still generally thoughtful and not ill intentioned, Victor von Doom; whereas it seems like many (most?) other writers in recent times have treated him more as an explicitly malevolent and power hungry Doctor Doom.
That said, this is Bendis so it's at least even odds that he didn't actually care about what was happening elsewhere.
 
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Gotta say, the thing that shocked me the most about this crossover is, it's the biggest crossover in Marvel History. Look at who was unimportant.

Spider-Man (Peter), Hulk, Most of the Avengers and X-Men.


That rarely if ever happens. Nevermind Black Panther being the first black hero to be a main character in a DC/Marvel company crossover.


Speaking of the Avengers, they straight up failed. And never got redemption for it. A total shocker. The Illuminati turned out to be the biggest winners.
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I think it's more that
Reed and T'Chala both realized illuminati should have never even been invoked. It took help from people they would've never considered on that level to fix everything. A handful of Avengers, Maximus, Maker, Doom, Reece. Reed had to work with his family, whom he should've gone to in the first place and T'Chala had to set aside his rivalry with Namor.

Illuminati didn't save a damn thing, really. The two guys at the top just finally stopped thinking their shit doesn't stink.
 
Lashley said:
Can someone explain that bit at the end with T'Challa? I didn't understand what was happening
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Same here-I'm not sure it made sense to me.

He did use the Time Gem and traveled back to the start of the Avengers run where he first witnessed the Incursion with Black Swan. Only this time it didn't happen, and he spoke with the students and demonstrated Wakanda's space division.

As to what he actually DID with the gem, I have no idea.
 
Inorigo said:
I think it's more that
Reed and T'Chala both realized illuminati should have never even been invoked. It took help from people they would've never considered on that level to fix everything. A handful of Avengers, Maximus, Maker, Doom, Reece. Reed had to work with his family, whom he should've gone to in the first place and T'Chala had to set aside his rivalry with Namor.

Illuminati didn't save a damn thing, really. The two guys at the top just finally stopped thinking their shit doesn't stink.
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True,
the illuminati themselves didn't do shit, really it was Doom in that juncture. And the two leaders afterwards

But more to the point
What happened to the Avengers was super dark. Especially after the climactic Infinity fight, that's a team collapse the likes we have never seen.
 
Gentlemen, it was a fun ride reading with you.

As for the final issue...

- Namor getting his one douchey oneliner. Never change you smug little bastard.
- Okay, who else kind of cheered when Maker got sliced up like a pizza? Pretty epic.
- Doom vs. Reed, very cool.
- Reed giving the thumbs up for Vic's qualities was a cool moment.
- "Thanks for the burger!" Man, that was all it took for Owen to place Miles in the main universe. And Owen was so nice in giving his mom back! Molecule Man is a pretty nice guy.
- So Reed, Franklin, Malcom and the Future Foundation are recreating the universe? That makes sense. Not bad Reed. Not bad.
- Everything lives! Awww even Doom got a happy ending.

Loved the event overall.
 
Sadist said:
Gentlemen, it was a fun ride reading with you.

As for the final issue...

- Okay, who else kind of cheered when Maker got sliced up like a pizza? Pretty epic.

Loved the event overall.
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I wondered if this was a call back to the original Secret Wars where
Doom slices up Klaw into little sections

(spoilered not b/c the OG Secret Wars needs it, but knowing it might spoil what happens now)
 
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
True,
the illuminati themselves didn't do shit, really it was Doom in that juncture. And the two leaders afterwards

But more to the point
What happened to the Avengers was super dark. Especially after the climactic Infinity fight, that's a team collapse the likes we have never seen.
Click to expand...

Yeah.
That's why it's probably a good thing both the team and the concept of what the Avengers are and should be is splintered in ANAD.
 
So is Panther now the only person on earth who still remembers battleworld and all that? Well Doom could still remember maybe.

From Squadron Supreme it seems the incursions still happen, wonder how that got sorted out.
 
The Silver said:
So is Panther now the only person on earth who still remembers battleworld and all that? Well Doom could still remember maybe.

From Squadron Supreme it seems the incursions still happen, wonder how that got sorted out.
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I think it might be that
only a handful remember the events of Battleworld, like only those that managed to survive it
.
 
B-Dubs said:
I think it might be that
only a handful remember the events of Battleworld, like only those that managed to survive it
.
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That would make a lot of sense. There's a handful of characters all across the ANAD books that CLEARLY remember the events of TRO, Battleworld, or both.

Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Interview about the last issue with Tom and Jonathan

Damn it, now they added a new question to the mix.

What Gem did T'Challa use?

I'm thinking reality.
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I like this particular bit:

Brevoort: It's effectively a new multiverse. The biggest and most important thing here that nobody in the world will like, and that I'm the only one that keeps poking at, is the fact that the Marvel Universe is no longer the 616. I don't know if by the end of "Secret Wars" #9 there are 616 universes yet. There will be an infinite number of them. Realities that we've known and new ones that we've never visited before are being constantly created, and then mapped and explored by Reed and his family.
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doing away with the "616" bit was one of the few big things everyone agreed marvel was going to do re: the housecleaning.
 
What a great conclusion. I love that Miles
got his mom back because of a cheesburger. I had a cheesburger today in his honor

Eh... I'll just spoiler tag everything

Black Panther with the infinity gauntlet was epic. And I loved his final contingency of going back in time.

The one interesting thing is how this sets the stage for ANAD.

Not sure if this is the right way to think about this but here goes nothing:

Original 8 Month Gap: The moment of the first incursion happens to the moment that everything dies.

8 Years of Battleworld: Duration of Doom’s singular omniverse before everything lives.

All New All Different 8 Month Gap: Reed and the Future Foundation begin creating the multiverse that begins when the first incursion should have happened.

Marvel Universe Prime (ANAD): The 8th iteration of the marvel universe created in the image of 616 with some notable changes including key battleworld players like Old Man Logan, Miles and Maker.
 
Manmademan said:
That would make a lot of sense. There's a handful of characters all across the ANAD books that CLEARLY remember the events of TRO, Battleworld, or both.



I like this particular bit:



doing away with the "616" bit was one of the few big things everyone agreed marvel was going to do re: the housecleaning.
Click to expand...

What I hope they decide to do at some point is
a series with Reed, Sue and all the kids exploring the new multiverse
. I'd read the shit out of it.
 
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Interview about the last issue with Tom and Jonathan

Damn it, now they added a new question to the mix.

What Gem did T'Challa use?

I'm thinking reality.
Click to expand...

Hickman: Yeah, I have to turn in those script passes. I'll probably do those in the next couple of weeks, now that all of this is locked down. I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing next. I'll figure something out. Tom and I have talked about some stuff -- it's definitely not "Secret Wars II."

Brevoort: [Laughs] I might have an idea for something. We'll talk later. I might or I might not, because you may hear this and go, "Oh, no! I don't want to do that!" [Laughs]

So as far as definite projects for you in the immediate future, it's just creator-owned books?

Hickman: Yeah, I have a bunch of stuff that I'm doing at Image. The biggest thing is that I'm going to write and draw a book again, which I've really missed doing. All of that will get announced pretty shortly, here.

Marvel has been really good to me, and I've had a good time working with them. If I can manage my work schedule, I would absolutely love to continue to do more books with them. And I'm happy, which is nice.
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Hnnnngh I forgot about SHIELD and look at that, hope for the future!

Manmademan said:
I suppose, but it would be a weird series with no torch or thing along with them
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I wouldn't say so especially if the point is about
Reed being Dad and not Mr. Fantastic for awhile.
 
Well regarding the 616 stuff,
everyone saw that the Marvel Universe was now called "The Prime Universe" near the end of the issue
.
 
Manmademan said:
eh? where did you get that idea
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I've just gone back to that final T'Challa segment and realised I read it wrong.
I thought it mean that there now 12 planets in our system, when in fact they were looking at a different galaxy. It didn't help the next segment got entitled 'The Prime Earth' as though there were now more of them. ;)
 
So a couple questions for Marvel going forward:

Is Reed now effectively God in the MU, or does he lose that power gradually as the multiverse is created?

Is Owen Reece now canonically the source of all power in the MU?
 
Jack Remington said:
So a couple questions for Marvel going forward:

Is Reed now effectively God in the MU, or does he lose that power gradually as the multiverse is created?

Is Owen Reece now canonically the source of all power in the MU?
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Owen is the source of the power Reed's using at the end. That power might be gone, split between all the different Owens and everything's back to normal now.

No idea where you got that second idea.
 
Talking about people remembering battleworld...

Ms. Marvel remembers that the world was ending; She referenced it when she talks about Bruno and her having a moment in volume 1. I guess most heroes will remember just that and not Battleworld itself

Regarding the ending...

I don't consider Reed a god, but more of an historian working with Molecule Man to bring back the universe. He might be... "free" to sculpt some worlds but overall he and Malcolm try to restore balance.
 
Hickman has to come back. honestly I don't want another writer on the FFs for a while.

Also he is the only one to to write about future Franklin and Valeria, and they still have immense potential
 
The way Secret Wars ended was just fantastic (no pun intended). The explanation for Miles being brought over was also amazing (again, no pun intended).
He got his mother back thanks to a cheeseburger, that's just awesome.
 
Sadist said:
Talking about people remembering battleworld...

Ms. Marvel remembers that the world was ending; She referenced it when she talks about Bruno and her having a moment in volume 1. I guess most heroes will remember just that and not Battleworld itself

Regarding the ending...

I don't consider Reed a god, but more of an historian working with Molecule Man to bring back the universe. He might be... "free" to sculpt some worlds but overall he and Malcolm try to restore balance.
Click to expand...

It's shown in other books that the most of the MU saw the incursions coming and then they just suddenly stopped for them.
 
Absolutely fantastic ending. Definitely a very Hickman ending too.

Well hey, now that the event is finally over I guess they can finally move this thread to community! Oh... right.
 
Sinatar said:
Absolutely fantastic ending. Definitely a very Hickman ending too.

Well hey, now that the event is finally over I guess they can finally move this thread to community! Oh... right.
Click to expand...
I'm still salty that this got moved within two months and the ANAD thread is still going.
 
Damn, that ending shows that Hickman totally understands the nature of the Fantastic Four and the relationship between Reed and Doom better than any other Marvel writer today.

I feel vindicated.

The extra touch that maybe Reed could only have done what he did and be better at it than Doom in the end because Doom did it -first- and Reed learned from his mistakes is so fucking good. They've always been competitors, often seeking the same thing by different means, and the fact that they complete each other and push the other to be better is what makes the entire story amazing.

Edit: I'm moving the thread back to OT for at least 2 weeks. Since the event is FINALLY over, it's valid to get more eyeballs if people are looking for a place to discuss the event itself.
 
duckroll said:
Edit: I'm moving the thread back to OT for at least 2 weeks. Since the event is FINALLY over, it's valid to get more eyeballs if people are looking for a place to discuss the event itself.
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Awesome.
 
I think I'm going to do a re-read of the entire run soon.

I wish we could have gotten one with no interference from really stupid outside events. No AXIS. No Steve suddenly being old. No Thor suddenly being unworthy (though Hickman admirably managed to work through this one).

It is really, really jarring to be reading a series about the team dealing with incursions and a parallel series about Avengers worlds and whatnot and then suddenly, hey, Tony Stark is evil, and hey, Steve is old and Falcon is Cap now, and no one even mentions any of this shit.

Just wish we could see what it would have been like if Hickman had been the only person doing universe-wide events during those two years.

Edit: Based duckroll! GOAT mod.
 
Jack Remington said:
I think I'm going to do a re-read of the entire run soon.

I wish we could have gotten one with no interference from really stupid outside events. No AXIS. No Steve suddenly being old. No Thor suddenly being unworthy (though Hickman admirably managed to work through this one).

It is really, really jarring to be reading a series about the team dealing with incursions and a parallel series about Avengers worlds and whatnot and then suddenly, hey, Tony Stark is evil, and hey, Steve is old and Falcon is Cap now, and no one even mentions any of this shit.

Just wish we could see what it would have been like if Hickman had been the only person doing universe-wide events during those two years.

Edit: Based duckroll! GOAT mod.
Click to expand...

AXIS proved not everyone can work within these constraints. I think he did a great job to pull some meaningful character moments from those things even if they weren't ideal.
 
Haven't read #9 yet, but I have it, and I'm so ready for it.

The unfortunate side effect of living in the Japanese time zone.
 
Jack Remington said:
I think I'm going to do a re-read of the entire run soon.

I wish we could have gotten one with no interference from really stupid outside events. No AXIS. No Steve suddenly being old. No Thor suddenly being unworthy (though Hickman admirably managed to work through this one).

It is really, really jarring to be reading a series about the team dealing with incursions and a parallel series about Avengers worlds and whatnot and then suddenly, hey, Tony Stark is evil, and hey, Steve is old and Falcon is Cap now, and no one even mentions any of this shit.

Just wish we could see what it would have been like if Hickman had been the only person doing universe-wide events during those two years.

Edit: Based duckroll! GOAT mod.
Click to expand...
So how bout that phoenix egg?
 
I don't think it's really fair to look at it from a "what could Hickman have done if no one else were writing Marvel comics" perspective, because for better or for worse, it is a collective world. Hickman would not be able to tell this story if there wasn't a collective universe to begin with, and no one wrote all that alone. That's the nature of comic crossovers and events. Hickman has handled this better than probably anyone else in the past few decades, but without a playground created by so many others to begin with, it wouldn't be the same.

Even the ending itself hints at that concept.
Hickman happily accepts that he is Reed and that while he is a planner and a mastermind, he can't build universes alone or they lose all meaning. Some of you just want him to be Doom instead. :P
 
The Silver said:
So how bout that phoenix egg?
Click to expand...

Hickman gave the dude an 8 month time skip and dealt with the inversions and Odinson stuff and Bendis still couldn't help out with the Nation X/Phoenix Egg.

duckroll said:
I don't think it's really fair to look at it from a "what could Hickman have done if no one else were writing Marvel comics" perspective, because for better or for worse, it is a collective world. Hickman would not be able to tell this story if there wasn't a collective universe to begin with, and no one wrote all that alone. That's the nature of comic crossovers and events. Hickman has handled this better than probably anyone else in the past few decades, but without a playground created by so many others to begin with, it wouldn't be the same.

Even the ending itself hints at that concept.
Hickman happily accepts that he is Reed and that while he is a planner and a mastermind, he can't build universes alone or they lose all meaning. Some of you just want him to be Doom instead. :P
Click to expand...

These are fair points and really if you read the interview Kid Kamikaze posted above, along with the others from CBR, it gives pretty good insight into the various summits they had while planning things out.
 
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