And he's gonna write the next event.
Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins
- Thread starter Mudcrab
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And he's gonna write the next event.
The Silver
Member
For such a massive ambitious story, Hickman did the best job anyone could have done with the constraints he had and with only 9 issues.
Still I can't help but wonder about the alternate world where Secret Wars was a long form comic, so many things happened off panel that I wish we could've seen more of. Usually tie ins help alleviate some of this but funnily enough SW was the rare event where the nearly all of them had little to do with the main stuff.
Still I can't help but wonder about the alternate world where Secret Wars was a long form comic, so many things happened off panel that I wish we could've seen more of. Usually tie ins help alleviate some of this but funnily enough SW was the rare event where the nearly all of them had little to do with the main stuff.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
It was jarring as fuck in USM as well. He basically dedicated a single page to the Secret Wars stuff . "Oh boy, what a crazy adventure that was. Huh, why is there a planet in the sky?"
I never looked at it this way. And now that I see it, it's a thousand times better.I don't think it's really fair to look at it from a "what could Hickman have done if no one else were writing Marvel comics" perspective, because for better or for worse, it is a collective world. Hickman would not be able to tell this story if there wasn't a collective universe to begin with, and no one wrote all that alone. That's the nature of comic crossovers and events. Hickman has handled this better than probably anyone else in the past few decades, but without a playground created by so many others to begin with, it wouldn't be the same.
Even the ending itself hints at that concept.Hickman happily accepts that he is Reed and that while he is a planner and a mastermind, he can't build universes alone or they lose all meaning. Some of you just want him to be Doom instead.
Remembrance
Member
He was restrained from the start with not getting to have Xavier in the Illuminati. Bringing in Beast sort of worked out (especially when he managed to tie All-New X-Men in too), but to this day I want to see the version of the Great Society fight with Xavier.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Xavier probably would have done the Cap mind wipe. He had the potential to do some fucked up stuff power wise during the Incursions I think. Like mindfucking the people witnessing an Incursion into thinking everything is perfectly fine while they do whatever it takes to make sure that earth is the one that gets destroyed.
BrokenFiction
Member
That was such a wonderful book and wonderful run. I was legit emotional by the end. Had to read it two more times, then go back and read the whole thing all over. Best Marvel event ever? Might be, really up there in the top 5 for sure.
I'm gonna miss this book.
I'm gonna miss this book.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
The Maker stuff could have been more satisfying if his Ultimates run hadn't ended prematurely but now I'm just digging up very old regrets.
Great to hear. I had high hopes for this event since Secret Wars 1 was so fun.
I'm waiting for the hardcover. What tie-ins do you think are worth buying?
Sad there's no omnibus for this event.
Manmademan
Member
1.) it's possible there is still something "above" or "outside" of creation- Ultimates mentions this in the latest issue, and this is after all where the beyonders were from in the first place- outside the confines of the marvel multiverse. The beyonders eliminated the entire abstract tier in Time Runs Out (though we saw eternity revived in silver surfer) but The One Above All or the creator entity didn't make an appearance there- that thing doesn't get into fistfights and doesn't really seem to. So here I would say, "no, reed is not god, and neither is owen reece."
But to the extent that we talk about other all powerful entities that we know to exist other than TOAA (which has always been kind of a question mark) and the Beyonders (which are now all dead) owen has been shown to be several levels above all of them, including the infinity gauntlet which is no small feat- he's pretty much top dog unless someone inexplicably digs up the O.G. Beyonder.
2.) To this...yes, actually. if we take the events of secret wars as canon, battleworld and everything in it was created from the same stuff Doom was- that is, the channeled energy of the molecule man- with the exception of Dr. Strange, who survived the obliteration of the previous universe and was NOT altered/created/salvaged by Doom. All of the "new" universes including the Prime one should similarly be made from the same stuff that Owen Reece is.
But to the extent that we talk about other all powerful entities that we know to exist other than TOAA (which has always been kind of a question mark) and the Beyonders (which are now all dead) owen has been shown to be several levels above all of them, including the infinity gauntlet which is no small feat- he's pretty much top dog unless someone inexplicably digs up the O.G. Beyonder.
2.) To this...yes, actually. if we take the events of secret wars as canon, battleworld and everything in it was created from the same stuff Doom was- that is, the channeled energy of the molecule man- with the exception of Dr. Strange, who survived the obliteration of the previous universe and was NOT altered/created/salvaged by Doom. All of the "new" universes including the Prime one should similarly be made from the same stuff that Owen Reece is.
Remembrance
Member
What a missed opportunity during the last round of What If books.
...Secret Wars is almost certainly up for the What If treatment next, but how do you explain away having more than one version of Secret Wars?
Siege and Thors are quality and also the only ones that directly tie into the event itself.
I also enjoyed Shang Chi, Weirdworld(!), Infinity Gauntlet, 1872 and Where Monsters Dwell all for wonderfully various reasons. Incredible event.
Manmademan
Member
just explain it away as a "could have happened" and ditch the concept of "its an alternate universe" entirely. This IS the "all new, all different" marvel, after all.
i really didn't like this one. I kept feeling like there was a giant in joke I was missing out on with this, and the whole thing fell flat.
MHWilliams
Member
It's the Marvel version of the Holy Trinity, so to speak.
The Father, the son, and the Molecule Man.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly, I think the tie-ins ended up being fairly disappointing for the most part. They barely connect to the overarching plot, which is not really a negative but more of a neutral. Most of them give you glimpes at another world that has some promise, but everything is wrapped up before it gets the chance to become interesting. A lot of them are sort of based on previous events, but with some twists. Most of these didn't do much for me.
Weirdworld's been one of the crowd favorites, mostly for the art I think. Secret Wars 2099 is okay and is one of the ones referenced in a certain ANAD book now. MODOK's dumb fun. Ms. Marvel had some genuine emotional moments, as did Captain America and the Mighty Avengers.
Renew Your Vows again...okay. Get it if you want to see a married Spider-Man. Thors was decent. My favorite one was probably Infinity Gauntlet, which has a strong start but fizzles out a bit towards the end. Hank Johnson: Agent of Hydra is only one issue but was really fun.
Most of them are readable if a bit middling, the only one I'd straight up avoid is Ultimate End.
I feel that's kinda how it is with most Ennis books, luckily I get the joke more often than not.
Ultimate End
I blocked that one out so hard. Yeah, fuck this tie-in.
The Silver
Member
Ultimate End was impressively bad.
Manmademan
Member
This is the ONLY one I regret investing time in. Even though I didn't "get" whatever "where monsters dwell" was going for, its wasn't flat out awful
The swerve was amazing.
So what does the ending of Secret Wars say about the future of Marvel?
I'm waiting for ANAD to hit Marvel Unlimited so its possible that by now it's clear if ANAD is an actual change or just a rebranding of Eart-616 with a couple Ultimate character thrown in.
Does the Reed-created multiverse imply that Marvel is going to embrace more Elseworlds tales and potentially have series that take place in their own universes, or will nothing change beyond the name of the main Marvel universe? It's not like there wasn't a multiverse before, and the ending could just be an explanation for how the multiverse was recreated, but the last few pages, the new renaming of 616 to Prime Earth, and the intent to usher in ANAD after this issue implies an editorial shift in my opinion.
Manmademan
Member
I get the feeling the tie ins are ideas that are going to be explored further in ANAD, assuming they're ideas that stick.
We've already seen the villains from the guardians title and "renew your vows" cross over, 2099's connection is blatant, Red Wolf has his own title now, Weirdworld spun off not one but TWO titles etc etc.
I'm fine with battleworld being a sandbox for what works going forward where no one had to worry about restrictions or continuity.
Plus xmen 92 is getting its own ongoing.
On that note, xmen 92 was a good tie in too. Try it, especially the comixology version. They do some interesting stuff with the digital format, much better than the regular paper part t.
I still feel he kinda dropped the ball on Avengers though. All the Steve and Tony stuff went nowhere, and while some have said that -that- is the point, I don't think that makes it a particularly compelling or satisfying story arc. Yes, the point might be that they were both wrong and either of them had any solution in the end, but all the build up at the start of Avengers and all of the journey about Avenger Worlds and whatever... it just felt like a huge waste of time for nothing. In the end Secret Wars tied up with Hickman's Fantastic Four run, his Ultimates run, and the New Avengers run. But the Avengers run feels like a bastard child in the middle of all that. That's the one flaw in his otherwise really well crafted master plan.
Manmademan
Member
yeah, I forgot about that one. It's erroneous to say the tie ins don't matter- to a certain extent they matter more than the main storyline. you'll likely see the effects of those across the main MU titles for a few years, at least.
MHWilliams
Member
This is what I was saying before Secret Wars started. New Avengers was the book Hickman wanted to write. Those were the characters and events he cared about. Avengers was pure scene setting. There were cool moments, but you could tell he wasn't really focused on the characters; Avengers was where he moved things around on the chess board.
Manmademan
Member
No. No one can. don't think too hard about it.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, Avengers was all about the systems, more than the characters with some parts that didn't really add much to the story like the arc with alt Avengers. Some of the setup was cool, but I only really started liking it during the TRO stuff.
I feel that without Avengers to compliment New Avengers, NA wouldn't have had the same impact.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Just finished reading #9. WHAT A FUCKING ENDING.
God damn, I didn't expect to, but I actually got choked up at the end.
This is, by far, the best Marvel event I've read in years...maybe ever!
Wow...just so much to think about.
God damn, I didn't expect to, but I actually got choked up at the end.
This is, by far, the best Marvel event I've read in years...maybe ever!
Wow...just so much to think about.
MHWilliams
Member
T'Challa activated the Time or Reality gem
I say
Time or Reality
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Thanks, that gives me a better understanding of it. So, was he there to prevent the incursions in the first place?
MHWilliams
Member
No, they never happened in this new universe.
Basically, they've restarted the multiverse with the Prime Universe, based on 616, with all that resulting backstory. No incursions because there were no other universes to incur, everything is being created now by the Reed/Franklin/Molecule trinity. Prime was first and then they moved on from there.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
I sort of wonder if Hickman took Avengers as a way of getting to tell his larger story. His FF run sort of climaxed 6 months before he left. He used his last months to tell one off stories, wrap up a few loose character arc ends, and set up Black Panther. However, I remember thinking at the time that it sort of felt like Hickman was killing time (even if the stories were still good) as opposed to wrapping up his 3 year run (which was more or less done the previous April or May). Then post AVX, he takes over Bendis' Avengers titles. New Avengers was clearly the continuation of his Fantastic Four stuff. Avengers was sort of just there for awhile. Things improved some during infinity, and got a lot better post-time skip, but it did feel like Hickman did Avengers so that he could write New Avengers (and ultimately Secret Wars). We got some character progression out of Sunspot, and a new take on AIM, but that run was definitely weaker than FF, New Avengers, or Secret Wars.
BrokenFiction
Member
When you look at the long arc of what Hickman has accomplished, I doubt that Marvel will have something this deep in a decade or more. Simply amazing.
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