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[Parallax]

Huh... This sort of confirms what I was speculating a few pages back... Seems like these Battleworlds made up of various past events (ie Age of Apocalypse, Civil War, House of M, Spider-Island, etc.) could be used to make revisions to those events and be incorporated into the new Marvel U's timeline going forward?

i dont think so. based on the covers weve seen for some of these worlds, they share the name of events, but are altered in some way. like the planet hulk cover seems to be steve on a planet of hulks and civil war seems to be cap and iron man using spidey in a tug of war

 

[darkhunger]

i dont think so. based on the covers weve seen for some of these worlds, they share the name of events, but are altered in some way. like the planet hulk cover seems to be steve on a planet of hulks and civil war seems to be cap and iron man using spidey in a tug of war

Yes, I am aware, that's kind of what I was referring to. These events have been changed up a bit, and these "Warzone" minis are supposed to tell what was different about these events. That's pretty much stated on that article.

My thinking is once the "final merger" takes place, these warzones/events basically merged with 616 to become the backstory for the new Marvel Universe. Sort of a way for Marvel to rewrite history on the fly. Seems to be what the article is implying.

 

[KimiNewt]

All I was hoping to get from Marvel is the Ultimate Spider-man line continuing and repeating the greatness of its original run (which it seemed about to do).

I guess we'll never see it now, now that Miles will have to contend with all-new-old villains, all-cheese Avengers, crossovers and editors notes and awful retcons.

 

[Parallax]

Yes, I am aware, that's kind of what I was referring to. These events have been changed up a bit, and these "Warzone" minis are supposed to tell what was different about these events. That's pretty much stated on that article.

My thinking is once the "final merger" takes place, these warzones/events basically merged with 616 to become the backstory for the new Marvel Universe. Sort of a way for Marvel to rewrite history on the fly. Seems to be what the article is implying.

that seems more convoluted and unnecessary than a reboot. especially since quite a few of those worlds have literally no connection to 616. and retconning history in such a grand fashion would alienate everyone

 

[Mudcrab]

All I was hoping to get from Marvel is the Ultimate Spider-man line continuing and repeating the greatness of its original run (which it seemed about to do).

I guess we'll never see it now, now that Miles will have to contend with all-new-old villains, all-cheese Avengers, crossovers and editors notes and awful retcons.

The horror.

Let's not pretend getting rid of the ultimate line isn't a good idea. You'll still have Miles and Bendis will probably write him like he was always going too.

 

[Coriolanus]

Just trying to decipher what Alonso and Gabriel are saying with those quotes from the article.

Not sure how what you're saying can be applied to those quotes.

My understanding of the battleworld so far is that realms that failed to act in the incursion get thrown there. This concept is reinforced by ultimate earth and 616 clashing, and both ending up on the battleworld. Thus, the rest.

As for what marvel editors say, they in hype mode, and that translates into they in lying mode.

 

[Afrodium]

i dont think so. based on the covers weve seen for some of these worlds, they share the name of events, but are altered in some way. like the planet hulk cover seems to be steve on a planet of hulks and civil war seems to be cap and iron man using spidey in a tug of war

The nations are made up of the events. Battleworld will be made up of different times from different multiverses, which just so happen to be big events/series from the past 50 years. However, since they're different times, things can change. For example, if the Civil War nation was dragged to Battleworld right at the beginning of Civil War, then Civil War as we know it won't actually happen and whatever happens during Secret Wars will. Steve can be on Planet Hulk because "Planet Hulk" in Battleworld will just be a chunk of Planet Hulk (that conveniently has all the major players on it) that's been hurtled through time and space and ended up on Battleworld. So, Planet Hulk is no longer a planet but a territory which Steve can go to because he can just walk there from Civil War land or House of M world.

 

[Sandfox]

Unlikely, given that, in the way the battleworld is being (supposedly) structured, those places would come from universes that were destroyed while their versions of the events were running. Alllows for differences from universe to universe, but 616 continuity stays.

Well it says in the release that the Warzone books are going to be the building blocks and foundation for what comes next so its kinda implying that the changes shown in these books will stick.

 

[Mudcrab]

The nations are made up of the events. Battleworld will be made up of different times from different multiverses, which just so happen to be big events/series from the past 50 years. However, since they're different times, things can change. For example, if the Civil War nation was dragged to Battleworld right at the beginning of Civil War, then Civil War as we know it won't actually happen and whatever happens during Secret Wars will. Steve can be on Planet Hulk because "Planet Hulk" in Battleworld will just be a chunk of Planet Hulk (that conveniently has all the major players on it) that's been hurtled through time and space and ended up on Battleworld. So, Planet Hulk is no longer a planet but a territory which Steve can go to because he can just walk there from Civil War land or House of M world.

Have you seen the teaser for that Planet Hulk? It's Rogers and Devil Dinosaur fighting on a literal planet full of different Hulks.

 

[Afrodium]

Have you seen the teaser for that Planet Hulk? It's Rogers and Devil Dinosaur fighting on a literal planet full of different Hulks.

I never said things would transpire just like they did in Planet Hulk, just that an area from Planet Hulk will be on Battleworld. A bunch of crazy shit is gonna happen when you've got like 50 versions of different superheroes from across time and the multiverse on one planet. Sometimes Hulks just want to team up and kill dinosaurs.

I highly doubt that each event's "nation" is going to stay within its borders to that Marvel can rewrite it how they see fit. Everyone's just gonna start fighting each other immediately.

 

[darkhunger]

Latest Axel-in-Charge further hints/reaffirms at some big changes but adds more questions...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=58726

 

[Coriolanus]

Well it says in the release that the Warzone books are going to be the building blocks and foundation for what comes next so its kinda implying that the changes shown in these books will stick.

Y'see, my problem with a quote like that is that... so is everything else. Every issue (usually) builds on the previous one, so that is nothing new.

Plus, y'know, they'd never announce a huge event with "nah, dont worry guys, this is all just a huge What If event".

 

[Gambit 1138]

If by "going forward," you mean "during SW," then yes. They've been anything but clear about what comes after it, though their language has admittedly been confusing.

Remember, while Battleworld isn't quite the same thing, they swore up and down that HoM and AoU were set in the "real" Marvel U and not alternate reality stories. Yeah, about that...

Building blocks of a NEW Marvel Universe. Meaning after Secret Wars is over. They're just not going to use the word reboot just like DC and Lucasfilm didn't because they don't want a backlash and a sales boycott from pissed off fans and angry nerds embarrassing them at commiccon.

edit: Alonso has kind of touched on what we were discussing yesterday:

I guess by nature of the story, this sounds like more tie-ins than we've seen from an event series at Marvel, at least in recent years.

Alonso: "Secret Wars" is an all-in event that transforms the Marvel Universe and requires all books to acknowledge it. Our creators had plenty of time -- years in some cases -- to prepare for it. By the same token, we're taking great pains to make sure that people who are invested in current series stay invested.

By the time "Secret Wars" debuts, there will be comics like "Howard the Duck," "Silk" and "All-New Hawkeye" that will still be quite early into their runs. Will those books be affected just as profoundly?

Alonso: Wait and see as our announcements move forward.

 

[Slayven]

Don't know what to tell you brah, we will just have to wait and see. I will have the crow fresh and tasty for you

 

[Sandfox]

Y'see, my problem with a quote like that is that... so is everything else. Every issue (usually) builds on the previous one, so that is nothing new.

Plus, y'know, they'd never announce a huge event with "nah, dont worry guys, this is all just a huge What If event".

Marvel is not even hiding the fact that we're getting a new Marvel universe and that past events are going to have changes through the Warzone branding. In the newest Axel-In-Charge he outright says this is the case.

 

[Slayven]

Marvel is not even hiding the fact that we're getting a new Marvel universe and that past events are going to have changes through the Warzone branding. In the newest Axel-In-Charge he outright says this is the case.

Retcons happen everyday.

 

[Sandfox]

Retcons happen everyday.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but Coriolanus is saying that he thinks the 616 continuity is going to stay the same when that's clearly not the case.

 

[Coriolanus]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but Coriolanus is saying that he thinks the 616 continuity is going to stay the same when that's clearly not the case.

I am saying that 616 continuity will, by and large, remain the basis of everything. Sure, they'll take one thing or another from other universes, but overall? Wouldn't expect major changes.

Don't know what to tell you brah, we will just have to wait and see. I will have the crow fresh and tasty for you

Pretty much. Editors hype stuff. World moves on.

 

[Manmademan]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but Coriolanus is saying that he thinks the 616 continuity is going to stay the same when that's clearly not the case.

no one is arguing it's going to "stay the same" because it's obvious it won't. but Slayven is correct when he says retcons happen all the time, if for no other reason than "marvel time" makes certain origins and motivations completely nonsensical. The FF were trying to get to the moon to beat the soviets when they got irradiated in the 60s. how much sense would that origin make now?

as for axel, he says a lot of things, but...

Alonso: Well, on one side, there are fans saying, "Oh my God, it's a reboot!" On the other, there are fans saying, "Thank God it isn't a reboot!" All I'll say is that, like our teaser suggests, "When everything ends, there is only Secret Wars," but that doesn't mean we think our continuity or history as broken and needing to be fixed. Far from it.

"we don't think our continuity or history is broken, and needs to be fixed."

But that doesn't mean that we're not willing to take chances and bend some stuff. Come May, "Secret Wars" is the Marvel Universe and all of its stories lay down the building blocks for the Marvel Universe moving forward: the characters, artifacts, territories and other stuff that will be the Marvel Universe when the event is over. "Secret Wars" is not an intermission from our regularly scheduled program; it is our regularly scheduled program. If you are reading "Amazing Spider-Man," it's going to be abundantly clear which series you need to be read, during the event and beyond. Ditto for non-flagship series like "All-New Ghost Rider." We have plans for Robbie Reyes.

"Secret wars" and all of its stories (drawn from existing continuity) lay down the building blocks. the characters, artifacts, territories will be the marvel universe going forward."

Alonso: Yes, our history provides the building blocks -- from "Future Imperfect" to "Civil War" to "Marvel Zombies" to "Old Man Logan." These stories are the building blocks.

"our history is providing the building blocks."

Alonso: "Secret Wars" is an all-in event that transforms the Marvel Universe and requires all books to acknowledge it. Our creators had plenty of time -- years in some cases -- to prepare for it. By the same token, we're taking great pains to make sure that people who are invested in current series stay invested.

"we're taking great pains to make sure that people who are invested, stay invested."

It's obvious from this interview that marvel is NOT doing what DC did, that is, scrapping everything prior to the event and creating something new. Marvel will be picking and choosing what they like from existing continuity, streamlining it into something that makes sense, and ditching the "millions of parallel worlds" concept of which the prime universe is only #616 out of trillions.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Like I said before, they likely are going to soft reboot certain characters and storylines using this, but not actually a full reboot. There was a little of this in Secret Invasion when they used it as a way to do several retcons, this time though can see them using this event as a way to insert in big changes/retcons/reboots without doing a complete wipe.

 

[Coriolanus]

It's obvious from this interview that marvel is NOT doing what DC did, that is, scrapping everything prior to the event and creating something new. Marvel will be picking and choosing what they like from existing continuity, streamlining it into something that makes sense, and ditching the "millions of parallel worlds" concept of which the prime universe is only #616 out of trillions.

Kinda hoping that they don't do that, tbh. Confirmed?

 

[Sandfox]

If the Infinity Gauntlet teaser we got is supposed to be part of Warzone than I'm really curious to see what's going on there because it looks like it might be completely different.

no one is arguing it's going to "stay the same" because it's obvious it won't. but Slayven is correct when he says retcons happen all the time, if for no other reason than "marvel time" makes certain origins and motivations completely nonsensical. The FF were trying to get to the moon to beat the soviets when they got irradiated in the 60s. how much sense would that origin make now?

as for axel, he says a lot of things, but...



"we don't think our continuity or history is broken, and needs to be fixed."



"Secret wars" and all of its stories (drawn from existing continuity) lay down the building blocks. the characters, artifacts, territories will be the marvel universe going forward."



"our history is providing the building blocks."



"we're taking great pains to make sure that people who are invested, stay invested."

It's obvious from this interview that marvel is NOT doing what DC did, that is, scrapping everything prior to the event and creating something new. Marvel will be picking and choosing what they like from existing continuity, streamlining it into something that makes sense, and ditching the "millions of parallel worlds" concept of which the prime universe is only #616 out of trillions.

They obviously aren't going to pull a DC reboot and the events he just so happened to mention are the ones already confirmed to have books so they're just going to make tweaks and/or introduce new elements. I just interpreted Coriolanus' post the wrong way.

 

[Mudcrab]

Kinda hoping that they don't do that, tbh. Confirmed?

Not entirely at least. I'm hoping some of the weird ones stick around and something we can call a multiverse remains or else we'll never get another Exiles.

 

[Manmademan]

Kinda hoping that they don't do that, tbh. Confirmed?

just speculation on my part, but everything seems to be pointing to it.

The tribunal is dead, the watcher is dead, both of those were heavily integrated into the "parallel world" mythos.

"spider verse" is just running roughshod over the multiverse concept (as it relates to spider man) and killing off spider men by the dozen, and inventing random joke tier spider-men (spider horse, peter parked-car, aunt may the spider maam) because...why not? might as well get some use out of the multiverse while it's still around.

the incursions have eliminated the "infinite" multiverse down to a few hundred thousand, and that total is dropping by the minute. "Secret Wars" implies that the few dozen territories will be all that remains.

there's also anecdotal quotes here and there about writers and editors not being fond of the whole #616 thing tagged onto the prime multiverse.

I wouldn't lay any money on the current structure still being around after secret wars.

 

[Sandfox]

just speculation on my part, but everything seems to be pointing to it.

The tribunal is dead, the watcher is dead, both of those were heavily integrated into the "parallel world" mythos.

"spider verse" is just running roughshod over the multiverse concept (as it relates to spider man) and killing off spider men by the dozen, and inventing random joke tier spider-men (spider horse, peter parked-car, aunt may the spider maam) because...why not? might as well get some use out of the multiverse while it's still around.

the incursions have eliminated the "infinite" multiverse down to a few hundred thousand, and that total is dropping by the minute. "Secret Wars" implies that the few dozen territories will be all that remains.

there's also anecdotal quotes here and there about writers and editors not being fond of the whole #616 thing tagged onto the prime multiverse.

I wouldn't lay any money on the current structure still being around after secret wars.

We're getting a lot of crossovers with other universes now and I'm guessing its either to build relationships for SW or to get some last use out of the characters before they're gone.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I'm gonna guess they're not getting rid of the multiverse entirely but will severely limit the number of worlds out there to something actually countable. It's possible though.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Look at the Battleworld map. Infinity Gauntlet relaity is at the bottom with Zombies and Age of Ultron.

Behind a wall.

 

[Manmademan]

I'm gonna guess they're not getting rid of the multiverse entirely but will severely limit the number of worlds out there to something actually countable. It's possible though.

also possible. but then again that would draw a lot of "new 52" parallels.

honestly though, marvel doesn't really need a lot of alternate universes to do what they do. 616 is more than big enough to tell every story they want to tell, without leaning on "its an alt-universe" as a crutch.

future worlds (like 2099) I actually expect to stick around though. no way they're giving up that trope. 2099 has behaved more like an ACTUAL future (with present events changing it on the fly) rather than an alt-world lately, and it looks like they're merging it with the maestro's future somehow?

 

[Sandfox]

Look at the Battleworld map. Infinity Gauntlet relaity is at the bottom with Zombies and Age of Ultron.

Behind a wall.

Thanos vs Ultron lol.

 

[Coriolanus]

My main concern is with the storytelling device they used to justify non Doomtech time-travelling. Having new universes for all the changes is a terrific way to avoid common time-travelling problems which most writers are certainly not equipped to handle.

Toss that out and see how quickly the paradoxes pile up.

 

[Gambit 1138]

Don't know what to tell you brah, we will just have to wait and see. I will have the crow fresh and tasty for you

All I'm saying is the 616 world is done. It will be a new universe. Wether its a full on reboot from #0 starting at the origin or a new 52/post crisis style just pick up where they left off but with different backstories in a different world is anyones guess.

It's not going to just be the 616 continues just with a few Ultimate and Elseworlds refugees.

 

[Manmademan]

Thanos vs Ultron lol.

I'm actually not sure who I would go with there.

 

[J10]

I'm still a couple years behind. Why are some of the different realities named after event titles? Are these going to be retellings of old stories?

 

[Manmademan]

I'm still a couple years behind. Why are some of the different realities named after event titles? Are these going to be retellings of old stories?

inspired by, but not retellings of.

the way the marvel multiverse works, most of those are alternate universes that exist alongside the normal one.

 

[Coriolanus]

Are these going to be retellings of old stories?

Pilfering, most likely. Will be fun. Seriously, no sarcasm.

 

[Slayven]

My main concern is with the storytelling device they used to justify non Doomtech time-travelling. Having new universes for all the changes is a terrific way to avoid common time-travelling problems which most writers are certainly not equipped to handle.

Toss that out and see how quickly the paradoxes pile up.

See that is why I like you. I too was wondering about the time platform. It is the only thing in the MU I would consider OP

All I'm saying is the 616 world is done. It will be a new universe. Wether its a full on reboot from #0 starting at the origin or a new 52/post crisis style just pick up where they left off but with different backstories in a different world is anyones guess.

It's not going to just be the 616 continues just with a few Ultimate and Elseworlds refugees.

Why not? AIn't nobody got time for origin stories we hard a bazillion times before.


You reminded me, whatever happened to Sugarman and The Dark Beast?

 

[J10]

inspired by, but not retellings of.

the way the marvel multiverse works, most of those are alternate universes that exist alongside the normal one.

Are the alternate universes of the 'What If' variety? Like the realities are formed by different outcomes of the original stories as they happened in the 616?

 

[Parallax]

See that is why I like you. I too was wondering about the time platform. It is the only thing in the MU I would consider OP


Why not? AIn't nobody got time for origin stories we hard a bazillion times before.


You reminded me, whatever happened to Sugarman and The Dark Beast?

dark beast is either dead or back in the AoA timeline

 

[Manmademan]

Are the alternate universes of the 'What If' variety? Like the realities are formed by different outcomes of the original stories as they happened in the 616?

seems that way, but we'll have to wait until secret wars starts to get the full explanation.

dark beast is either dead or back in the AoA timeline

they killed Dark Beast for good in the current uncanny xmen run.

 

[Slayven]

Last time I saw Battleworld, Captain America fucked Rogue.

 

[Manmademan]

Last time I saw Battleworld, Captain America fucked Rogue.

I'm ashamed to admit I have no idea what that is

 

[J10]

seems that way, but we'll have to wait until secret wars starts to get the full explanation.

OK. I'm almost done with AvX and Infinity. Of Original Sin, DoW, AXIS, Spider-Verse - what can I not skip?

 

[Scirrocco]

You reminded me, whatever happened to Sugarman and The Dark Beast?

Sugarman I don't know. Dark beast just recently died in uncanny xmen.

 

[Slayven]

I'm ashamed to admit I have no idea what that is

It's a whatif that exploers what if the people didn't go back to earth.

Thor and Enchantress had a kid

Wolverine and Storm had a kid

Johnny Storm and Wasp had a kid

She Hulk and Hawkeye had a kid

Doom and Enchantress had a kid

Absorbing Man and Titania had a kid

Molecule and Volcana had a kid

Lizard had a kid with somebody.

Captain America and Rogue with Carol's mind had a kid.

 

[Manmademan]

OK. I'm almost done with AvX and Infinity. Of Original Sin, DoW, AXIS, Spider-Verse - what can I not skip?

i'm blanking on what DoW is (I've been drinking today, so sue me) but everything else there isn't really essential. ESPECIALLY Axis. Spider Verse is a lot of fun though, but all indications are that not a lot of what happens is going to "matter" much in terms of secret wars.

 

[J10]

Death of Wolverine.

 

[Sandfox]

OK. I'm almost done with AvX and Infinity. Of Original Sin, DoW, AXIS, Spider-Verse - what can I not skip?

None of those events really matter when it comes to SW unless we get some last minute foreshadowing in Spider-Verse.

 

[Manmademan]

Death of Wolverine.

oh THAT. yeah, I skipped the hell out of that whole event

 

[Slayven]

I am sad the Shiver Man was not involved with Wolverine's death.

 

[Parallax]

oh THAT. yeah, I skipped the hell out of that whole event

the post stuff is much better than the series itself. well except for the lazy naming of a certain character