shadyspace
Banned
Do we really need yet another Superman analogue in the main Marvel universe?
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Marvel's Secret Wars Hype Thread - Where we argue about what "reboot" means
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
Do we really need yet another Superman analogue in the main Marvel universe?
Manmademan
Member
Gambit was on the team for 2 years before the animated series. He was introduced in August of 1990, and the animated series premiered in October of 1992. That said, I was off on when the decision to make Gambit not be a traitor was made. It was actually when Chris Claremont left the book and Jim Lee took over as writer in addition to his art duties. That would be between issues 3 and 4 of the 1991 X-Men series, with issue 4 hitting shelves in January of 92. Incidentally, that's also the issue where Wolverine hung up the Brown and Tan costume and went back to the tiger stripes.
Not exactly. That's when Claremont either left or was forced out, not necessarily when they abandoned the "Gambit is really mr. sinister" bit. Like other posters had said, Gambit was extremely popular almost immediately at a time when X-men comics were the best selling things on the shelves by a mile. Why do you think a character THAT new was a regular team member in the cartoon in the first place, over long running staples like Colossus, Iceman, Archangel, and Psylocke, who were also on the blue/gold team? (edit: Jubilee was ALMOST as new, but she was clearly there to fill the "teen sidekick" quota, which was pretty much a staple of saturday morning cartoons at that point.)
Claremont had a lot of clashes with (Then X-Men Editor) Bob Harras during his tenure there, and a lot of the things Claremont actually intended were reversed, dropped, or ignored.
In Uncanny X-Men #269 from 1990, it was revealed that the Shadow King was now in control of Legion and through him everyone else on Muir Island. Obviously, Lorna Dane's new powers came along before the Shadow King, but when Chris Claremont left the book, subsequent writer Fabian Nicieza attributed the powers to the Shadow King's influence, so that when Muir Island was freed from his influence in Uncanny X-Men #280 in 1991, Lorna lost her new powers and shrank to normal size.
In X-Factor #70 from 1991, written by Peter David, Lorna Dane was back to being Polaris, complete with magnetic powers and completely without explanation, ignoring Claremont's character development.
Another X-Man who was taken in a new direction was Psylocke. In Uncanny X-Men #255 from 1989, the Hand sent her to Spiral's Body Shoppe, where Mojo and Spiral transformed her body into that of an Asian woman, so she could better serve as The Hand's assassin in Hong Kong.
Although Psylocke had simply been through Spiral's Body Shoppe like Lady Deathstrike in Uncanny X-Men #205 in 1986, that didn't stop subsequent writer Fabian Nicieza from writing a complicated story in X-Men vol.2 #21-23 in 1993, where Psylocke had instead switched minds with an Asian woman, Kwannon (Revanche). In X-Men vol.2 #31-32 from 1994 he did add that Spiral had been involved with the body switching, though.
In Uncanny X-Men #260 from 1990, pilot Cylla Markham, a friend of Banshee's, was badly hurt and in Uncanny X-Men #261 that same year, she accepted an offer from Donald Pierce to become one of his cyborg Reavers. In Uncanny X-Men #269, also from 1990, he made her into his new Skullbuster, replacing the one who had died in Uncanny X-Men #255 in 1989. Claremont didn't get to introduce the finished result before leaving the series, but in Wolverine vol.2 #55-57 from 1992, writer Larry Hama introduced a cyborg created by Donald Pierce that went by the name Cylla. This cyborg bore no resemblance to the new Skullbuster and was killed off in Wolverine vol.2 #78 in 1994. Then, the original Skullbuster reappeared without explanation in the 1997 Domino mini-series written by Ben Raab.
When Claremont returned to Marvel, Cylla Markham finally debuted as the new Skullbuster in X-Treme X-Men Annual 2001, ignoring what had happened in between his stints as X-Men writer.
In Uncanny X-Men #262 in 1990, Donald Pierce sent his Reavers after his former Hellfire Club colleague Emma Frost, but they never caught up with her. Claremont was building up to a final confrontation between the Reavers and the X-Men, which never happened, because subsequent writer John Byrne had the Upstart Trevor Fitzroy's Sentinels kill off all the Reavers, except Lady Deathstrike and Cylla Markham, in Uncanny X-Men #281 in 1991. All of them were revived for the X-Treme X-Men 2001 annual, though.
In Uncanny X-Men #279 from 1991, Shadow King was in need of a new host body and had several candidates in mind. Who Claremont had intended for him to possess until the final battle with Professor Xavier in Uncanny X-Men #300 in 1993 remains unknown. Claremont left the X-Men with Uncanny X-Men #279, right in the middle of the Muir Island Saga, which featured Shadow King. All of Claremont's story-elements were dropped between page 12 and 13 of that issue, and new writer, Fabian Nicieza, cut the Shadow King storyline short by having Professor X defeat him in the very next issue.
"My Muir Island story was much different from the one that appeared," Claremont stated in a 1994 Internet interview.
And finally...
"What happened was that the editor of the book and I had for a long period of time leading up to that point increasingly disagreed on the direction the book should go in how the book should be handled," Claremont told Seriejournalen.dk.
"My feeling is that I was in a position where I was the defining force on X-Men for longer than any of the editorial staff had been in professionel comics, much less working for Marvel," Claremont explained in Wizard #22. "Yet a change in editor (to Bob Harras) created a situation where all of that credibility, history, and track record meant absolutely nothing. He was in charge. His decision was policy. My responsibility as an employee was to follow that policy or get the hell out of the way."
"The problem was that (artist) Jim (Lee) was just as strong-willed as I was," Claremont revealed in Comics Creators On X-Men. "Jim wanted to do stuff that reminded him of the things that made him get into comics in the first place. He wanted to bring back Magneto and do the Sentinels and all that sort of stuff. My problem was I'd already done those things at least twice. I wanted to try and find some new stuff to do. New stuff for the new millennium, you know! We couldn't find any sort of common ground that would allow us to compromise. Rob Liefeld had just forced Louise Simonson off New Mutants and that left a lot of frustration and negative resonance. Bob Harras was editing X-Men in those days and he was a lot more simpatico to Jim than he was to me. () Bob and Jim wanted to do what they wanted to do and the feeling was I could not or would not go along, and they were going to do it anyway."
"The editor (Bob Harras) at that point made the decision that I should no longer plot the book," Claremont told Seriejournalen.dk. "And when he made that decision I made my decision, which was that I wasn't going to stay on it if I wasn't plotting it and left. The transition occurred on page 12 of Uncanny X-Men #279 (in 1991). That's the last page I wrote."
lots more at http://www.uncannyxmen.net/secrets-behind-the-x-men/the-final-days-of-the-x-men
The evidence here is overwhelming. Harras and to a lesser extent Jim Lee (who was a MONSTER Celebrity artist at the time, it's impossible to overstate just how influential he was at the time) disagreed with the vision claremont had for the series, and had been undermining and reversing decisions for some time. THAT'S why claremont left, and even though he's credited as being the co-writer of the first three issue arc of the relaunched X-men (along with lee) he ACTUALLY left before that during Uncanny Xmen 279, and his ideas for the muir island saga went out the door with him.
There is absolutely NO chance that Lee and Harras were going along with Claremont's ideas for Gambit as late as Xmen #4. simply not possible. It's also worth noting that X-factor relaunched immediately after the muir island saga with a new team led by Havok, not Cyclops- with Mr Sinister as the primary antagonist and not concerned about Scott over in X-men at all. Harras clearly had ideas for that guy that didn't mesh with what Claremont wanted.
the prototype armor sparking a new age armor wars, and the real star brand showing up would be dope
Isn't the original Star Brand on one of the covers or am I thinking New Universal?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
It looks like Mighty Avengers, Magneto, and Loki have been announced to be under the "Last Days" branding.
Or they could simply have those titles tie-in with SW and have them continue on afterwards.
This 100%.
The way Marvel works, there's like a billion stories that can fit under this umbrella. While everybody's fighting over all whatever, Howard The Duck could spend a whole issue realizing there's now 15 versions of his favorite diner and he spends the whole thing seeing how many cheeseburgers he can eat and what the differences are.
There's no shortage of different ways Marvel books have ended up tying into events. Even though this one is changing the fabric of the universe, these books can still focus on the character at the heart of them. Ms. Marvel is still going to be Ms. Marvel when the whole world is smushing together in the background. And logic dictates that if they were strong enough characs to get their own book, that Ms. Marvel is going to make it to the other side relatively unscathed.
I think with bigger characs/properites, there will be more fundamental changes/replacements. Anyone in a movie is completely up in the air.
Actually, I should clarify that. Anyone in a movie that is significantly different than their MCU counterpart is completely up in the air.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Do we really need yet another Superman analogue in the main Marvel universe?
Presumably the other analogues wouldn't exist on the new Marvel earth
Isn't the original Star Brand on one of the covers or am I thinking New Universal?
Yep along with some other New Universe characters
Gambit 1138
Banned
Honestly Chris Claremont might have been good back in the late 70s/early 80s but every idea he wanted to implement in the X-Men books in the late 80s/early 90s sound fucking terrible and I'm glad he left when he did. Ideas like "gambit is really mr.sinister" sound terrible. Jim Lee knew what he was doing and an entire generation of children are better for it.
Do we really need yet another Superman analogue in the main Marvel universe?
despite being of similar power sets, they are distinctly different, so i say sure. there are a few in dc as well
the prototype armor sparking a new age armor wars, and the real star brand showing up would be dope
And it is always Prime time.
Manmademan
Member
Honestly Chris Claremont might have been good back in the late 70s/early 80s but every idea he wanted to implement in the X-Men books in the late 80s/early 90s sound fucking terrible and I'm glad he left when he did. Ideas like "gambit is really mr.sinister" sound terrible. Jim Lee knew what he was doing and an entire generation of children are better for it.
I'm inclined to agree.
And it is always Prime time.
prime in the 616 would be a freaky thing. he and the rest of the ultraverse would have to get toned down a bit
prime in the 616 would be a freaky thing. he and the rest of the ultraverse would have to get toned down a bit
It could happen one of those 'classified' labeled worlds on the SW map could be 'Malibu'
Manmademan
Member
It could happen one of those 'classified' labeled worlds on the SW map could be 'Malibu'
I'm thinking it's going to be something a bit more significant than that, though after spider verse I wouldn't rule out anything.
It could happen one of those 'classified' labeled worlds on the SW map could be 'Malibu'
I wonder if malibu would include the men in black too if it were to happen. Like a darker version of s.w.o.r.d and a.r.m.o.r
Manmademan
Member
I wonder if malibu would include the men in black too if it were to happen. Like a darker version of s.w.o.r.d and a.r.m.o.r
totally forgot about that. I guess they COULD...it would be weird though.
Oh god, what if one of those is Star Wars.
.
.
.
.
What am I saying, it totally is.
edit: secret 'wars' ugh. The more I think about it, the more obvious it all is. If you were going to integrate that giant star wars franchise you just bought into the marvel U, a massive year long crossover event would be how you would do it. Or to put it another way, what are the odds that marvel would NEVER cross over "star wars" which they own and print now with the mainstream marvel U? zero? I thought so. How would you arrange things so this would actually make any sense, given the state of the marvel multiverse right now?
totally forgot about that. I guess they COULD...it would be weird though.
Oh god, what if one of those is Star Wars.
.
.
.
.
What am I saying, it totally is.
You have a better chance of getting SuperPro back.
Manmademan
Member
All I want to know is what's going to happen to Nova because it looks like Marvel is going to change The Infinity Gauntlet into a cosmic event starring him and the Guardians.
Rich Ryder has been implied to be coming back for a few months now, and sam's book isn't really selling any numbers worth talking about.
Rich returns, and sam ends up as a nameless member of the nova corps we see less and less of as time rolls on.
You have a better chance of getting SuperPro back.
I would lay crazy money on star wars being established somewhere in the marvel U by the time secret wars is done. Though not the current cast- that story was supposedly ancient history, if episode IV is to be believed. The "Cyclops" mini series pretty much is a star wars type space opera, so it's not like there isn't room or precedent to go that route with established characters.
totally forgot about that. I guess they COULD...it would be weird though.
Oh god, what if one of those is Star Wars.
.
.
.
.
What am I saying, it totally is.
edit: secret 'wars' ugh. The more I think about it, the more obvious it all is. If you were going to integrate that giant star wars franchise you just bought into the marvel U, a massive year long crossover event would be how you would do it. Or to put it another way, what are the odds that marvel would NEVER cross over "star wars" which they own and print now with the mainstream marvel U? zero? I thought so. How would you arrange things so this would actually make any sense, given the state of the marvel multiverse right now?
star wars integrating into marvel would be hilarious. it would be a quick blow out
Rich Ryder has been implied to be coming back for a few months now, and sam's book isn't really selling any numbers worth talking about.
Rich returns, and sam ends up as a nameless member of the nova corps we see less and less of as time rolls on.
I'd rather have both of them together. I can't see them just dumping Sam.
Coriolanus
Banned
you know i just realized? what if this is an effort to not only merge the remainder of the ultimate world with 616, but also a chance to merge the 616 and marvelman worlds together?
Wait, what.
They gon use miracleman on battleworld?
Don't toy with my heart like that, man.
Manmademan
Member
Wait, what.
They gon use miracleman on battleworld?
Don't toy with my heart like that, man.
I can see it.
Manmademan
Member
star wars integrating into marvel would be hilarious. it would be a quick blow out
Gladiator would be throwing haymakers at Star Destroyers, punching death stars into bits like "I got this, everyone else take 5"
I'd rather have both of them together. I can't see them just dumping Sam.
eh, I can. outside of his own book Sam has been used as a punchline. No one really seems to have much affinity for him
Gambit 1138
Banned
GUYS they can't use Ultraverse because of some really complicated rights issue or so they claim. So as much as you and I want to see them brought back it ain't happening because Marvel refuses to pay people they hoodwinked in the Malibu buyout or something like that.
The classified worlds are probably more famous stuff like the MCU, Earth X, MC 2, and Squadron Supreme world.
The classified worlds are probably more famous stuff like the MCU, Earth X, MC 2, and Squadron Supreme world.
Gladiator would be throwing haymakers at Star Destroyers, punching death stars into bits like "I got this, everyone else take 5"
Nerds couldn't handle it when some fansite said Captain America would beat Master Chief in a fight imagine the reaction when Galactus starts stomping the Empire.
galactus is far too much. unless you literally mean stomp on the empire
I mean like hand waving entire fleets away and eating Coruscant in the process.
Wait, what.
They gon use miracleman on battleworld?
Don't toy with my heart like that, man.
its only speculation on my part that the marvelman universe is even involved, but i would like to think that the reason they havent done anything with the world outside of reprinting the old issues would be for this reason
Nerds couldn't handle it when some fansite said Captain America would beat Master Chief in a fight imagine the reaction when Galactus starts stomping the Empire.
galactus is far too much. unless you literally mean stomp on the empire
GUYS they can't use Ultraverse because of some really complicated rights issue or so they claim. So as much as you and I want to see them brought back it ain't happening because Marvel refuses to pay people they hoodwinked in the Malibu buyout or something like that.
The classified worlds are probably more famous stuff like the MCU, Earth X, MC 2, and Squadron Supreme world.
There's supposed to be new stuff in there too and the map apparently doesn't show everything. That combined with the fact that some of the territories are going to combine make me not like the guessing game lol.
Manmademan
Member
GUYS they can't use Ultraverse because of some really complicated rights issue or so they claim. So as much as you and I want to see them brought back it ain't happening because Marvel refuses to pay people they hoodwinked in the Malibu buyout or something like that.
The classified worlds are probably more famous stuff like the MCU, Earth X, MC 2, and Squadron Supreme world.
I don't think the MCU will show up. Keeping the film properties separate from the comic nonsense has been paying too many dividends for too long.
There's no reason to hide Earth X, MC2, or the Squadron Supreme's world. Earth X showed up in Uncanny Avengers, MC2 in Spiderverse right now, and Thanos ran roughshod over the Squadron Supreme and killed them all in New Avengers...or at least one version of the Squadron Supreme.
They wouldn't be the "???" they would just stick them there.
Nerds couldn't handle it when some fansite said Captain America would beat Master Chief in a fight imagine the reaction when Galactus starts stomping the Empire.
That "master chief vs. Captain America" thread was goddamned hilarious and some of my best work is hanging out in there. Those Xbox fans never knew what hit them.
Coriolanus
Banned
its only speculation on my part that the marvelman universe is even involved, but i would like to think that the reason they havent done anything with the world outside of reprinting the old issues would be for this reason
Thought that was because they were waiting for Gaiman to get around to writing the rest of the story.
Plus, who'd be mad enough to continue a book that was made famous by moore and gaiman? Even if you wrote the next League of Extraordinary Gentlemen the hate would flow strong.
I don't think the MCU will show up. Keeping the film properties separate from the comic nonsense has been paying too many dividends for too long.
There's no reason to hide Earth X, MC2, or the Squadron Supreme's world. Earth X showed up in Uncanny Avengers, MC2 in Spiderverse right now, and Thanos ran roughshod over the Squadron Supreme and killed them all in New Avengers...or at least one version of the Squadron Supreme.
They wouldn't be the "???" they would just stick them there.
id bet on that squadron supreme we saw being an alternate version. im kinda curious on what world those xmen were from though. and is anyone else wondering where the exiles are when all this is going down? alternate earths is their thing
Gladiator would be throwing haymakers at Star Destroyers, punching death stars into bits like "I got this, everyone else take 5"
eh, I can. outside of his own book Sam has been used as a punchline. No one really seems to have much affinity for him
It seems like a waste to get rid of what looks to be a fairly successful new character by just writing him out the way you say they should when there are so many things they could still do with the character, especially if they bring Rider back.
Manmademan
Member
id bet on that squadron supreme we saw being an alternate version. im kinda curious on what world those xmen were from though. and is anyone else wondering where the exiles are when all this is going down? alternate earths is their thing
The squadron supreme almost certainly is an alternate, but again- they've used that team a few times (didn't they show up in the ultimate universe a while back?) so hiding their existence would be sort of bizarre. the definition of "underwhelming reveal."
The exiles version of spiderman 2099 already showed up in spider verse, but other than that? I think they've forgotten about that team.
MarvelMan/Miracleman showing up is almost makes too much sense not to happen. Marvel didn't go through all that BS just to reprint some old issues.
It seems like a waste to get rid of what looks to be a fairly successful new character by just writing him out the way you say they should when there are so many things they could still do with the character, especially if they bring Rider back.
look again.
The squadron supreme almost certainly is an alternate, but again- they've used that team a few times (didn't they show up in the ultimate universe a while back?) so hiding their existence would be sort of bizarre. the definition of "underwhelming reveal."
The exiles version of spiderman 2099 already showed up in spider verse, but other than that? I think they've forgotten about that team.
MarvelMan/Miracleman showing up is almost makes too much sense not to happen. Marvel didn't go through all that BS just to reprint some old issues.
look again.
His book is putting up pretty consistent numbers 25 issues in excluding digital which we obviously can't track and preforming better than established characters at half the issue count. I would say that's fairly successful unless you expect him to put up Miles numbers
Manmademan
Member
His book is putting up pretty consistent numbers 25 issues in excluding digital which we obviously can't track and preforming better than established characters at half the issue count. I would say that's fairly successful unless you expect him to put up Miles numbers
October:
127 Nova 22 $3.99 Marvel 22,485
November:
105 Nova 23 $3.99 Marvel 21,706
106 Nova 24 $3.99 Marvel 21,575
December:
116 Nova 25 $4.99 Marvel 21,805
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html
This is "cancellation" levels of sales. New Warriors (who had him on the roster) was canned for throwing up numbers like this. Miles isn't really doing well either- Marvel Clearly sees value in the character, but he's not selling well.
Father_Brain
Banned
Or they could simply have those titles tie-in with SW and have them continue on afterwards.
I thought that was implicit in option C, but yes.
October:
127 Nova 22 $3.99 Marvel 22,485
November:
105 Nova 23 $3.99 Marvel 21,706
106 Nova 24 $3.99 Marvel 21,575
December:
116 Nova 25 $4.99 Marvel 21,805
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html
This is "cancellation" levels of sales. New Warriors (who had him on the roster) was canned for throwing up numbers like this. Miles isn't really doing well either- Marvel Clearly sees value in the character, but he's not selling well.
The issue with New Warriors was that it was already at 19k by the fourth issue and was continuing to fall. Nova is putting up numbers higher than that after being on the market for close to two years so I consider that fairly successful for a new character. They could cancel it like they did with Scarlet Spider(though he him being a part of the Spider family makes his numbers look worse I guess), but I wouldn't want them to just throw the character away because there a lot of things they could still do with the character even if he ends up sharing a book with somebody else.
Also, Nova was only a reserve member in New Warriors and basically was never on panel so I don't really consider him a part of that book.
Manmademan
Member
The issue with New Warriors was that it was already at 19k by the fourth issue and was continuing to fall. Nova is putting up numbers higher than that after being on the market for close to two years so I consider that fairly successful for a new character. I wouldn't want them to just throw the character away because there a lot of things they could still do with the character even if he ends up sharing a book with somebody else.
Also, Nova was only a reserve member in New Warriors and basically was never on panel so I don't really consider him a part of that book.
There are very, very few titles marvel is putting out that are selling worse than Nova is. 21K a month (and those months were Axis tie-ins which should have bumped sales) is abysmal. Ms. Marvel is also a new character, but Kamala Khan is selling about 10K issues more a month- not lighting the world on fire, but safe from cancellation. Miles is also in this boat and is the best selling "ultimate" title by a fair margin.
Nova on the other hand is in the company of "already canned" titles like All New X-Factor, Fantastic Four and All New Ghost Rider. He's done and won't be carrying his own book for long.
crimsonspider89
Banned
The issue with New Warriors was that it was already at 19k by the fourth issue and was continuing to fall. Nova is putting up numbers higher than that after being on the market for close to two years so I consider that fairly successful for a new character. They could cancel it like they did with Scarlet Spider(though he him being a part of the Spider family makes his numbers look worse I guess), but I wouldn't want them to just throw the character away because there a lot of things they could still do with the character even if he ends up sharing a book with somebody else.
Also, Nova was only a reserve member in New Warriors and basically was never on panel so I don't really consider him a part of that book.
A book with heavy PR and constant tie ins compared to a book that barely anyone knew existed. Also a character who the workhorse writers and 99% of architects hate.
Yeah. Not looking good for Sam.
There are very, very few titles marvel is putting out that are selling worse than Nova is. 21K a month (and those months were Axis tie-ins which should have bumped sales) is abysmal.
It's in the company of "already canned" titles like All New X-Factor, Fantastic Four and All New Ghost Rider. He's done and won't be carrying his own book for long.
I'm not questing whether his book will be canceled since it very well could, but I don't see them just writing the character out of the universe like you said.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Everyone keeps talking about this miles morales but honestly I just want Ultimate Peter Parker and his comics to be the main Spider-Man canon moving forward. I don't like the 616 peter he's become too powerful and at the same time has too much weird depressing baggage like Norman impregnating gwen then killing her, loosing MJ, Aunt May getting buried alive, Norman Osborne tormenting harry with the insinuation he slept and impregnated Harrys girlfriend, etc. If Secret Wars retcons/reboots the JMS and Dan Slott runs out of existence I would be happy.
They'll probably either give Richie the book or let the two share after Secret Wars. Though I'm guessing Secret Wars is why they let the book run for as long as it has despite sales.I'm not questing whether his book will be canceled since it very well could, but I don't see them just writing the character out of the universe like you said.
Manmademan
Member
I'm not questing whether his book will be canceled since it very well could, but I don't see them just writing the character out of the universe like you said.
Why would they keep a character around that the audience hates, and other writers hate? it's basically a vanity project at this point.
I don't think he'll be killed off, but better characters than sam have vanished into obscurity with no one giving a damn. When's the last time anyone saw "alpha?" or cared? exactly.
The depression is how you know its the Peter we all love lol.Everyone keeps talking about this miles morales but honestly I just want Ultimate Peter Parker and his comics to be the main Spider-Man canon moving forward. I don't like the 616 peter he's become too powerful and at the same time has too much weird depressing baggage like Norman impregnating gwen then killing her, loosing MJ, Aunt May getting buried alive, Norman Osborne tormenting harry with the insinuation he slept and impregnated Harrys girlfriend, etc. If Secret Wars retcons/reboots the JMS and Dan Slott runs out of existence I would be happy.
The book could very well be replaced after Secret Wars. I'm expecting some changes to the cosmic universe when you consider where it is located on the map and the teasers we've gotten.They'll probably either give Richie the book or let the two share after Secret Wars. Though I'm guessing Secret Wars is why they let the book run for as long as it has despite sales.
The Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon & Jeph Loeb are the only two reasons Kid Nova is still around. And even then, based on my cousin & her friends' reaction to Kid Nova, kids aren't responding to Kid Nova (hell, my cousin even explained that it was just the "lame Nova" & that the regular one is much more awesome).Why would they keep a character around that the audience hates, and other writers hate? it's basically a vanity project at this point.
I don't think he'll be killed off, but better characters than sam have vanished into obscurity with no one giving a damn. When's the last time anyone saw "alpha?" or cared? exactly.
Well Alpha's book opened to 22k sales despite being a budget title so a lot of things clearly went wrong there.Why would they keep a character around that the audience hates, and other writers hate? it's basically a vanity project at this point.
I don't think he'll be killed off, but better characters than sam have vanished into obscurity with no one giving a damn. When's the last time anyone saw "alpha?" or cared? exactly.
The Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon & Jeph Loeb are the only two reasons Kid Nova is still around. And even then, based on my cousin & her friends' reaction to Kid Nova, kids aren't responding to Kid Nova (hell, my cousin even explained that it was just the "lame Nova" & that the regular one is much more awesome).
I don't think Loeb has as much power as you seem to think.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Well Alpha's book opened to 22k sales despite being a budget title so a lot of things clearly went wrong there.
I don't think Loeb has as much power as you seem to think.
Yes he does. The editors still listen to him and Bendis still tries to make his ideas look good.
Yes he does. The editors still listen to him and Bendis still tries to make his ideas look good.
Bendis and the editors have issues of their own that they need to work out IMO.
Manmademan
Member
Bendis and the editors have issues of their own that they need to work out IMO.
I'm not sure what your end game is here- what are you arguing?
Nova is clearly not a success. The sales are bad despite marvel pushing him HARD. Every book in that sales range has been announced for cancellation or soon will be. Other writers hate the character and routinely write him into a punching bag (this happened in Axis, New Warriors, AND spider verse)
The blocks are in place for him to be replaced and Rich is all but confirmed to return, everyone is just waiting out for secret wars to do so.
I'm not sure what your end game is here- what are you arguing?
Nova is clearly not a success. The sales are bad despite marvel pushing him HARD. Every book in that sales range has been announced for cancellation or soon will be. Other writers hate the character and routinely write him into a punching bag (this happened in Axis, New Warriors, AND spider verse)
The blocks are in place for him to be replaced and Rich is all but confirmed to return, everyone is just waiting out for secret wars to do so.
The Bendis and editor talk is something separate.
Also, why do people think Rider is comic back? Was it hinted at in one of the cosmic ongoings?
crimsonspider89
Banned
I'm not sure what your end game is here- what are you arguing?
Nova is clearly not a success. The sales are bad despite marvel pushing him HARD. Every book in that sales range has been announced for cancellation or soon will be. Other writers hate the character and routinely write him into a punching bag (this happened in Axis, New Warriors, AND spider verse)
The blocks are in place for him to be replaced and Rich is all but confirmed to return, everyone is just waiting out for secret wars to do so.
It also happened in Infinity.
Yeah why I am expecting the Cancerverse to be one of the undisclosed universes.
Plus GoTG 3000 just showed something shocking.
Manmademan
Member
The Bendis and editor talk is something separate.
Also, why do people think Rider is comic back? Was it hinted at in one of the cosmic ongoings?
All but flat out stated in Guardians of the Galaxy. Star Lord went through the entire story of how he got out of the cancerverse, and it's clear at the end of it that Nova survived, though star lord doesn't know that.
It also happened in Infinity.
Yeah why I am expecting the Cancerverse to be one of the undisclosed universes.
Plus GoTG 3000 just showed something shocking.
should I be reading that? spoiler it for me