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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Karma Jawa

Member

SushiReese

Member
No, it’s the poor that eat this shit and they do it for religious reasons, not just as tonics. It’s not a modern invention. It’s been around for a long time and was probably accelerated because of poor communist farming policy.
Majority of Chinese population are atheist and DO NOT consume wildlifes or even pet animals. The meat of wildlife and pet animals are much more expensive(around $400-$5000 each meal) than normal farming animals. It was heavily promoted by the lobby and certain interest group as TCM and luxury food for a certain number of rich and powerful class. The practice has been heavily criticized and contemned by the public but lobby group's influence is much more powerful inside the NPC.(Chinese congress). And dog meat consumption were promoted by some of local governments from Guangxi a minority Autonomous Region, made it difficult to directly be regulated by the central government.
 
I mean, doesn’t this hurt China’s economy as much as anyone?

While the U.S has a cutting edge Financial industry. Our real economy is not as robust as China's.

China bounced back quickly because their real economy is just leagues better than anyone else's due to them being such a large producer of goods.

Economically this will be devastating in the U.S. We are entering uncharted territory here. This could trigger an economic societal collapse, massive unemployment, wages will plummet, homelessness will skyrocket.
 

DKehoe

Member
I think it’s generally agreed that these incredibly small numbers were highly likely to have been misdiagnosed.

It would have to be a different strand. You’re basically sick until your body learns how to fight it off. You wouldn’t be infected by the same virus twice. It would have to be a variation, and this virus doesn’t seem to be mutating yet.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!
 

cryptoadam

Banned
I've got to agree. I love that Trump told people to calm down. Everybody has stepped up even President Trump, but Pence has really really fucking stepped up. He is informative, calming, and concerned. I laughed when he was put in charge, but now I am really proud he is the Vice President and in charge of this pandemic.



No doubt, the numbers are going to increased with increased throughput, but I think we have to be looking at the death rate because that is the most important number.

Yes deaths are the most important number, and then if we could see hospitlization that would also be the next most important number. Actually I think that is more important than deaths because that tells you how strained your health care system will become which is the real fear with this thing.

Cases doesn't really say anything. More tests, more cases. Most places are only testing sick people at this point or people who travelled. Its like comparing a Libra to a Peso to a Dollar to a Pound.

And Pence has been kick ass. He seriously looks like he is going to leap and snap a fools neck when he is standing behind Trump, and he is probably shreded as shit under that suite. I like Facui and Dr. Burke too. Sometimes you can get the sense from people when they are trying to calm you down even though they know things are hitting the shit and thats the feeling I get from them. So at least they know that its bad, they want to flatten the curve and states have taken a lot of steps.

thats another thing in the US states have a lot of powers, so as much as is done federally you also have to look at each state individually because of this. So far it sounds like there is a lot of coordination and we can see all the steps that each state has taken. I do wonder if another President or team would of been able to pull the private sector into this so quickly though ?
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
There was more, but here were the highlights for me:

- Announcement that the feds changed the interest rate to 0.00 ~ 0.25%.
- Announced greatly expanded testing started next week with medical workers and elderly being given priority.
- Told the toilet papers to calm the fuck down and announced renewed commitment from grocer CEOs to remain open and stocked, so there's no need to buy more than a week's worth of supplies.

Currently COVID cases in USA are doubling every 3 days.

If that's the gist of it, I think it is lacking.
 

Airola

Member
First of all, downplaying the gravity of this using the "only old people" mantra is disgusting. Not only disgusting but wrong. Young people have already died. It is less likely, yes, but it has happened and it may happen many times, as the desease infects more people.

From an Economics point of view, it is the apocalypse. Many companies are going under and that will lead to unemployment at historical levels worldwide once the epidemic crisis is over.

Actually, what this crisis has shown us is that the world is not ready for this. If something deadlier ever comes up, we are all doomed. This event will amount zero "experience points" for the next time we face a crisis of this magnitude.


The media is not overblowing anyhing. On my side of the world what they have done is quite the opposite, with catastrophic results. I wish they had warned people over the true danger of this. Until last week all they were saying is that "it's just a flu, you just wash your hands and that's it"

It's not the end of the world, but expect major disruptions in common people's lives for the next few years.

You are correct with a lot of that, and that's part of my point. There is that actual sense of danger. It's currently not a Black Death or Spanish Fly kind of a thing, but it is dangerous. People die but the death will not be some extra torturous endeavor. The world around feels empty, but stores still get stuff and we are mostly free to go and buy stuff.

What I mean is that this is a catastrophy right on the threshold of being something where we still can live our lives relatively well compared to a possible situation of having a world where, say, if someone was ill in the bus, the disease would 100% surely spread into every one of the other passengers and would quarantee the eventual death of at least 90% of them in some painful and disgusting manner.

We are witnessing one sort of a collapse in economy and to some extent in society too, but it's not something like if, say, we couldn't use electricity anymore or couldn't go buy milk from a store.

That's not downplaying the current situation. That's just how it is. We are right there in the beginning of a catastrophy movie, but haven't (at least yet) passed the point of no return from having to go through the whole movie. I hope you didn't mean I was saying "only old people" type of claims. I surely know about young people and even infants getting the disease. I'm well aware of this being dangerous to even young people and that's part of my point. There is an actual sense of danger for all of us - but we still are relatively safe compared to how things could be if it was, say, a major ebola outbreak.

We can walk in the streets, feeling the sense of apocalyptic emptiness. We can feel that. And my point is that we can do that. There are scenarios where that would be a complete impossibility. We can smell that sense of dread in the air - and then get back to our homes and tell people about it - and go back to smell it again. It doesn't mean the danger isn't there. It just means that we are in a situation where people who for whatever reason want to experience a sense of apocalypse, but not actually go through an actual apocalypse, this is right there in the sweet spot bringing actual danger and real consequences and the breaking of status quo in society to our lives, like something our generation and the generation before that hasn't yet experienced in the 1st world, but still not destroying us in major scale where we would have to build the society nearly from scratch.

Where I think you are wrong is that I think the world will learn from this. The world wasn't completely not ready for this. This could be way worse right now and we can see the world having at least some ability to tackle something like this when we can control people moving around the globe even this much. Imagine if countries weren't ready for doing lockdowns and other drastic measures. It would be a lot worse right now. After this we can now actually see how much of an impact a global pandemic can have to the economy in a world with this many people relying on current style of way of basing a lot of everyday lives on how good global economy is. This situation brings a ton of more knowledge about pandemics and economy and how they are connected to each other. We can be glad our first major global pandemic in the era of urbanization and globalization was this instead of something worse.

Now that said, who knows if things will get even worse by, say, having this disease mutate into something worse, or just having some other disease turn up relatively quickly. But for the time being, we are able to get our feet into the side of an apocalyptic world, to have an actual taste of it, and get back in our homes to talk about it. And while we are back in that world, there have been real consequences. Real deaths, businesses collapsing, lots of unemployment, danger still right there lurking around, but it's not quite what it is there beyond that threshold.
 

Loki

Count of Concision
It sounds like NSAIDs are the ones that can worse COVID-19. She could use the components of those Sudafed blends (dextromethorphan/Robitussen, guaifenesin/Mucinex) but not acetominophen.

I know there are some medicines similar to aspirin that have a reduced anti-inflammatory response, but I'm not a doctor or pharmacist. You should ask your doctor what else to use for fever reduction and muscle pain.

How does the theory that part of what contributes to the severity of some/all of these cases is the strength of the body's immune response fit into all this? If that's the case, perhaps those with lowered immune responses (or at least those who were at some "sweet spot" immunologically-speaking - strong enough to fight but not strong enough to cause a runaway cytokine storm-like reaction) would fare better? I'm recalling the Sam Harris podcast where his guest said that one theory about why young children don't appear to be affected is because their immune systems aren't fully developed yet and thus don't muster the same response that adult immune systems do.
 

SushiReese

Member
Do you guys think would this public health crisis bring any positive reforms to the U.S medial care system? U.S has one of the most expensive healthcare system across the developed countries, the convoluted medical system is causing serious testing limitations at the beginning, and congress has to pass an emergency bill to fix it after 2 months to let everyone to have a free testing.
 
How does the theory that part of what contributes to the severity of some/all of these cases is the strength of the body's immune response fit into all this? If that's the case, perhaps those with lowered immune responses (or at least those who were at some "sweet spot" immunologically-speaking - strong enough to fight but not strong enough to cause a runaway cytokine storm-like reaction) would fare better? I'm recalling the Sam Harris podcast where his guest said that one theory about why young children don't appear to be affected is because their immune systems aren't fully developed yet and thus don't muster the same response that adult immune systems do.

There probably is some sort of immunological sweet spot - for some people with maybe overly sensitive immune systems (like allergy sufferers like me) dampening it to some extent might help prevent complications. For others with relatively weaker systems, dampening it might let the infection develop to where the body goes all out.

Again, not a doctor, but I see responses like that all the time in systems. The body is all about homeostasis - consistency is life. Too strong you die, too weak you die. Most systems have a happy LCL and UCL range, but who knows what those are person to person.
 
Vice President Pence says new guidelines on curfews and social distancing to come Monday
From Jason Hoffman and Nicky Robertson

Vice President Pence said there will be new guidelines released Monday morning regarding potential curfews or closures of such locations as restaurants.
Pence said those guidelines are being vetted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for now, the federal government is deferring to decisions made by state and local governments.
"What my health care team, some of the best people in the world, tell me very regularly is that it's very important that you follow the data, you make decisions based on the circumstances that are taking place in that community," Pence said.

 

Amory

Member
Governor of MA just confirmed what we've been suspecting for a while...we're not going to be having our wedding reception as planned. So now we're definitely scrambling to make a plan B. Been on hold with Chase for an hour already trying to cancel our France honeymoon.

I'm devastated for my wife-to-be. She's the kindest, most selfless person I've ever known, always doing for others before herself. And she lost her dad a few years back and it's been a long mourning period as well. She deserved to have her day.

All in all I know a lot of people have it way worse than us, but this sucks.
 

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."

autoduelist

Member
Do you guys think would this public health crisis bring any positive reforms to the U.S medial care system? U.S has one of the most expensive healthcare system across the developed countries, the convoluted medical system is causing serious testing limitations at the beginning, and congress has to pass an emergency bill to fix it after 2 months to let everyone to have a free testing.

It isn't expensive because of lack of government intervention as it is.

And this crisis illustrates the issue with 'free' healthcare. It isn't our healthcare system preventing lack of testing for all, it is lack of testing kits. And now we have our private industry working on union to solve that. All medical care is scarce - doctors, medicine, beds.

That said, this should have solid reprucussions.

1] funding, as well as cutting regulations and redtape, to enable tele-care. This could force us into a new age of medical care for day to day issues that don't necessarily require face to face visits. Removing geographic location as a deciding factor in this type of care will increase supply and reduce customer cost,

2] bringing home factories for medicine and emergency goods. Solid for the economy, better all around

3] test run for the next pandemic. It's sounding like this one is relatively tame - contagious as hell, but at least it's not 'no symptoms, death 30 days later'. We are lucky.

4] testing issues were not so much because of our current medical system, but lack of kits plus overly centralized pandemic response. Too much had to go through the cdc. We are streamlining this at the federal level, allowing local areas to deal with local problems. That is, the best solution isn't centralizing response, but localized response based on expert guidelines.
 

JordanN

Banned
One positive thing about this pandemic, now is the best time to eat from a restaurant. Just came back from two places and both where nearly empty.

On the other hand, when a group of people walked in and someone coughed behind me, I took my food and jetted out of there.
 
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autoduelist

Member
From an Economics point of view, it is the apocalypse. Many companies are going under and that will lead to unemployment at historical levels worldwide once the epidemic crisis is over.

Apocalypse? Eh. I think that's too strong. We're going to see some major crippling, sure. All sorts of places are closing down, can't pay rent, which means landlords can't pay mortgages, etc.

Except that's nearly universal, so it's likely we'll figure out some sort of solution. The second we are past this, those landlords want those businesses back. Banks want their loan payments to restart. Nobody wants to be evicting any renters during this, since it' not like another business will open there. People are going to go stir crazy, ready to work and play as soon as we feel safe again.

So while i think there will be a dip and 'pause', once we are past this i can see us rubberbanding back fairly well.

And then we have the rebuild. In the US, we've already seen the executive order to bring medicine and emergency equipment supply back home. This means buiding factories, new industry, jobs.

America bounces back. I'm sure the Great Depression felt like economic apocalypse.

Best case? This teaches us some strong lessons about globalization and we're stronger for it. Worst case? We let authoritarians use this to centralize power.
 

autoduelist

Member
One positive thing about this pandemic, now is the best time to eat from a restaurant. Just came back from two places and both where nearly empty.

On the other hand, when a group of people walked in and someone coughed behind me, I took my food and jetted out of there.

I am literally craving sushi. It's the worst. Part of me wants to throw caution to the wind for that lovely unagi.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Do you guys think would this public health crisis bring any positive reforms to the U.S medial care system? U.S has one of the most expensive healthcare system across the developed countries, the convoluted medical system is causing serious testing limitations at the beginning, and congress has to pass an emergency bill to fix it after 2 months to let everyone to have a free testing.

There really isn't a medical system in place thats handeling this. Look how out of hand its getting in Italy right now followed by the rest of the EU.

No one is prepared for this type of outbreak we are seeing it across the world.
 

Kenpachii

Member
were they? Didn’t see it and I was looking? But I believe you

Not sure tho, i saw this picture of what they had on wuhan or whatever its called market place and it featured a dog, i heard a few times the guy say cat with it so not sure on the cat part tho. Seems like they eat whatever has is alive tho.
 

Hulk_Smash

Banned
Not sure tho, i saw this picture of what they had on wuhan or whatever its called market place and it featured a dog, i heard a few times the guy say cat with it so not sure on the cat part tho. Seems like they eat whatever has is alive tho.
I was mainly focused on the charts.
 

autoduelist

Member
Here's a bit of an honest controversial take stemming from a selfish 1st world brain:

This is the dream epidemic situation.

We all in the 1st world who've played video games and watched movies have had these fantasies of what it would be if some horrible plague happened, a zombie invasion or just whatever other apocalypse situation there could be.
Now we're having one that's right on the threshold of being safe enough and way too dangerous.
We can now kinda larp living an apocalypse scenario.

It's not like stepping outside would instakill us or if we got the disease it would be a 100% torturous experience of vomiting shit and blood and having skin boiling and rotting. But it still is an actual real and dangerous deadly disease that we can't take too lightly.
It's not like everyone who gets out gets shot or that there are some vicious gangs forming in the streets and it's not a situation where everyone in the world needs to go to an underground bunker, but it's still dangerous enough to actually have real lockdowns, emptry streets, empty grocery stores, forced closings of public events, passenger flights and cruises cancelled, no sport events, people having to keep distance to each other. Like a real sense of the world turning around while not being unbearably too much of that sense.

It's kinda like a really well made training scenario for some absolutely devastating world shaking event. It's a real deal with our lives kinda really on stake and there is an actual real feel of real danger, but we don't really have to fear for our lives 24/7 and we still can communicate with each other with no problem whatsoever.

It's like getting to live a bit in a world of some apocalypse movie during its first 10 minutes with a sign of things to come here and there and a montage of warnings on tv and newspapers and things looking like they might crash any moment now, but not really having to stay in that movie too long past that point.
Kinda having a small taste of an apocalypse and still being able to be the fat lazy bastards we like to be.

Now, here's hoping it will stay this way and not escalate into a complete nightmare. But if it stays like this, it's catering to our brains that are hooked into going through morbid scenarios from safe distance, but as an actual good thing it's making countries train really hard for any upcoming hyper deadly plague scenarios.

Agreed. Assuming this doesn't mutate, and that we have a basic grasp on the numbers... we may get lucky, compared to many alternatives.

I was extremely, extremely worried following early reports - China welding people into homes, disappearing people, mass cremation, drones 'disinfecting' areas with mass sprayers, 'healthy' people collapsing.

Now, assuming all that was overkill... and what we actually have is relatively manageable? We are lucky. A highly contagious virus with few symptoms for a few weeks, then a high death toll could have done massive damage.

The virus, as currently reported, will still do a lot of damage but is about as close to best case scenario in terms of us having a wake up call to prepare for the next one in a technological world where travel is so prevalent.

Of course, this doesn't take away from the actual day to day stories. I fear every day for those families welded inside, and hope they have been released and aren't watching their children starve to death as we speak. And i fear for my grandmother's health, and every other grandmother and father out there.

But as a species? It's blatantly obvious at this point we needed a wake up call to prepare for a more decisively deadly pandemic.
 

Azzurri

Gold Member
Restaurants will probably need a lot of delivery drivers.

I know people are angry restaurants and bars are closed for a time being, but if it can help reduce the spread I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind getting an e-mail from are job sites halting construction for 2 weeks. That would give us a much needed stoppage, since this winter has been warm and we literally have not stopped and have billed for the highest in the last 3 month we have ever billed for the winter.
 
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Hulk_Smash

Banned
Not sure tho, i saw this picture of what they had on wuhan or whatever its called market place and it featured a dog, i heard a few times the guy say cat with it so not sure on the cat part tho. Seems like they eat whatever has is alive tho.
I was mainly focused on the charts.
 
Ontario Medical Association says all elective surgery to be put on hold
The Ontario Medical Association (OMA) said on Sunday all non-essential care and elective surgery will temporarily be put on hold as the province directs its efforts towards battling COVID-19.
In an email sent to Ontario medical staff, the OMA said the “difficult decision” was made “to protect all health-care providers, patients and the public, and most importantly, to manage what we expect may be tremendous demand on the system from spread of the virus. ”


As someone who needs a gallbladder removed this is depressing news, but i expected it. Maybe i'll make the cut...doubt it tho. I've been waiting two months and still haven't even booked me.

Same thing is being asked of hospitals in America.
 
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