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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Sakura

Member
It's nuts that there are like three orders of magnitude (or more) in terms of number of cases between China and the next most affected country (being Japan, and half of those cases are seemingly from that cruise ship).

Considering that - for example - Canada is refusing to take any steps to prevent spread and yet there are hardly any cases there despite a sizable demographic with travel ties to mainland China?
There are currently what, about 30,000 cases? China has 1.4 billion people. That would mean 0.002% of people in China have the illness. Majority of those people are probably in quarantined areas and thus not travelling overseas. Even if we assume the true number of cases is 10x that, only a handful of cases in Canada seems pretty normal. I think it is unlikely for the issue to get out of control in a developed country. The bigger worry would be if it starts spreading in the undeveloped world as they wouldn't have the medical facilities or anything to really contain it and help those who are sick.
 

demigod

Member
Uhhhh....back from the dead?


VJsoca8.jpg

What's the cheapest shotgun I can buy?
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Holy shit.



80+ million more on lock down, 2 more Chinese provinces.


You don't lock down 80 million people for 500 dead cases. Normal flu kills WAY more than that. Their number must be 100x higher
 
You don't lock down 80 million people for 500 dead cases. Normal flu kills WAY more than that. Their number must be 100x higher
I can understand people drawing conclusions based on the severity of China's response (i.e. "if the number of cases is relatively low, which their reports seem to indicate, why lock down the cities?")

However, it isn't the first time China (or other communist countries) make a show of their authority and ability to rapidly mobilize for the sake of outward appearance (i.e. "look at how quickly we can build hospitals and quarantine a city")

The worst outcome for the chinese gov't -- aside from a truly apocalyptic outbreak -- would be if they lost control over the populace.
 

MrRogers

Member
This virus is a fkin monster, that Dr. Li the whistle blower, got sick Jan 12th, more than 3 weeks ago and only dies now? The fact that this viral pneumonia it causes can knock otherwise healthy young people on their asses for that long is crazy, with the end result being possible death. There is not enough resources, beds, o2, meds, icu trained nurses/doctors in north america to look after 1000s of people sick for that long of a period, if this thing blows up stateside, everyone is screwed, not just the elderly and immunocompromised.
 
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Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
and seems like was receiving proper care with bed and all. Newer patients in overrun hospitals will likely have to sit in hallways without much assistance.

For someone so young and seemingly healthy to go down, seems worrisome unless you go by conspiracies that the illness wasn't the cause.

edit: regards possibility of smoking, do we know if younger generations haven't abandoned smoking in china as has happened elsewhere?
Air quality would be just as bad, smoking just means he would be double fucked.

People who live in Chinese cities are probably the equivalent of heavy US smokers who live out in the country.

You will see higher death rates in US cities due to pollution as well.

If you are a heavy smoker in the US that lives in a big city... well good luck.

If you live in a city that has regularly noticable smog... good luck.

Both air pollution and smoking apparently affect your lungs in ways that make you more susceptible to these types of viruses. I wouldn't be surprised if they where linked to a higher chance at developing pneumonia as well.

Would be an easy explanation for the virus' current behavior. Then again it's still to early to tell...
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Anyone know china well enough to draw an equivalent "quarantine" for America? I'm not sure how significant these cities are to china as a whole. Is this like NYC to Boston being shut down, the DC area, or more like a less critical metropolis like Dallas or something? Hard to translate numbers and such from 1.4 billion down to 350 million!
 
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

Fatality rate for acute patients is 4%-5%; 3 weeks determine life and death

Caixin: Based on your clinical experience, what’s the disease progression of the new coronavirus?

Peng: Lately I’ve been spending the daytime seeing patients in the ICU, then doing some research in the evenings. I just wrote a thesis. I drew on data from 138 cases that South Central Hospital had from Jan. 7-28 and attempted to summarize some patterns of the novel coronavirus.

A lot of viruses will die off on their own after a certain amount of time. We call these self-limited diseases. I’ve observed that the breakout period of the novel coronavirus tends to be three weeks, from the onset of symptoms to developing difficulties breathing. Basically going from mild to severe symptoms takes about a week. There are all sorts of mild symptoms: feebleness, shortness of breath, some people have fevers, some don’t. Based on studies of our 138 cases, the most common symptoms in the first stage are fever (98.6% of cases), feebleness (69.6%), cough (59.4%), muscle pains (34.8%), difficulties breathing (31.2%), while less common symptoms include headaches, dizziness, stomach pain, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting.

But some patients who enter the second week will suddenly get worse. At this stage, people should go to the hospital. Elderly with underlying conditions may develop complications; some may need machine-assisted respiration. When the body’s other organs start to fail, that’s when it becomes severe, while those with strong immune systems see their symptoms decrease in severity at this stage and gradually recover. So the second week is what determines whether the illness becomes critical.

The third week determines whether critical illness leads to death. Some in critical condition who receive treatment can raise their lymphocyte, a type of white blood cell, and see an improvement in their immune systems, and have been brought back, so to speak. But those whose lymphocyte numbers continue to decline, those whose immune systems are destroyed in the end, experience multiple organ failure and die.

For most, the illness is over in two weeks, whereas for those for whom the illness becomes severe, if they can survive three weeks they’re good. Those that can’t will die in three weeks.

Interesting. I've been basing my numbers off a 10-day lag time for death, but maybe it should be 21?

To base this off the China reported confirmed cases, I would guess the majority of them are not tested & confirmed on day 1. Lets give it 3 days between initial symptoms and confirmation. That would give it a 18-day lag time. I am not sure if this includes the asymptomatic time as well. I'm going to round this down to 16-day lead time,

Lets re-run the numbers based on a 16-day lead time, see full numbers below, I am going to copypasta this each day to try and keep it updated. I am sure there is a better way, but whatever.

So originally 27 people came down with this on 12/30/2019. First person died (officially) on 1/10/2020. That's a 11'ish day time period to die. The first 7 people were released as "recovered" on 1/15/2020. So it took 16 days for people to get over it enough to be declared recovered. The early days of this were all full of misinformation, misdiagnosis, etc, so these #s are taken with a BIG grain of salt, but it's all we have to work with right now.

Only a sprinkling of deaths here and there until 1/22/2020, when there were 8 deaths (17 total). If we use the 16-day death period on this, 16 days back would have had been 1/6/2020. We only know of 27 cases officially sick on 1/6/2020, so if by that date 17 had died. That's a whopping 65% mortality rate. WTF! I would guess there were MORE infected prior to this and not diagnosed properly, but it's a scary start. If you took the total # of confirmed cases on 1/22/2020 (131 and divided it by the number of dead, 17, you still get a 13% mortality rate.)

So moving along, we know they changed some things internally around 1/18/2020 which caused a spike in reported cases.

16-day lag time, picked a few days for sampling, everything in January doesn't make sense, because more people were dying than were brought in 16-days earlier.

2/3: 64 deaths, 59 reported cases (16-day lag, 1/28 (16DL) = 100%+ mortality), a 10-day lag (10DL) would have a 1/24 date, with 457 cases reported, 14% mortality. 5-day lag (5DL), 1/29, 1737 cases, 3.7% mortality.

TOTAL case mortality, as of 2/3, (425 deaths / 20438 cases = 2% mortality). So, either everyone is already dead, or maybe 2% die. That is unhelpful. If you go off their 3-week time table (21 days!) it gets even more unreliable.

Oh well, let's run some more dates

2/4: 65 deaths, 16DL=84%, 10DL=9.4%, 5DL=3.2%, TM=2%
2/5: 71 deaths, 16DL=76%, 10DL=9.2%, 5DL=3.3%, TM=1.9%

Predicted?

2/6: 16DL=104 Deaths (70%), 10DL=159 Deaths (9%), 5DL=77 Deaths (3%)
2/7: 16DL=91.7, 10DL=131, 5DL=85
2/8: 16DL=181, 10DL=156, 5DL=97
2/9: 16DL=319, 10DL=178, 5DL=114
2/10: 16DL=481, 10DL=188, 5DL=109

So.. yeah, no idea. Have to wait and see which model it starts to follow I guess. The 16-day lag model gets monstrous as the cases get larger. Could you imagine a total mortality of 70% over the course of the virus? Yeah, me either. The fact that we have just about double the # of recovered cases vs deaths, means we should at MAX be looking at a 50% death rate, and even that is on the "Crazy wacky conspiracy story"-level.

I full expect this to fall somewhere between 3%-10% mortality at the high end, at least for Hubei. The rest of China & the World SEEMS to be doing much better with this, though depending on the LAG time we may just not be seeing it yet.


Stats reported by China below for reference:

Total Cases (Worldwide through 2/5): 28,364
12/30: 27
No cases reported between 12/31 & 1/10
1/10: 14
No cases reported between 1/11 & 1/15
1/16: 4
1/17: 17
1/18: 59
1/19: 77
1/20: 93
1/21: 149
1/22: 131
1/23: 259
1/24: 457
1/25: 688
1/26: 769
1/27: 1771
1/28: 1459
1/29: 1737
1/30: 1981
1/31: 2099

2/1: 2589
2/2: 2825
2/3: 3235
2/4: 3831
2/5: 3647

Deaths, since the 1st (Worldwide through 2/5): 566
1/10: 1
1/15: 1
1/16: 0
1/17: 0
1/18: 0
1/19: 1
1/20: 3
1/21: 3
1/22: 8
1/23: 8
1/24: 16
1/25: 15
1/26: 24
1/27: 26
1/28: 26
1/29: 38
1/30: 43
1/31: 46

2/1: 45
2/2: 57
2/3: 64
2/4: 65
2/5: 71

Released total: 1,153
1/15: 7
1/16: 5
1/17: 3
1/18: 4
1/19: 6
1/20: 0
1/21: 0
1/22: 0
1/23: 9
1/24: 4
1/25: 11
1/26: 2
1/27: 9
1/28: 43
1/29: 21
1/30: 47
1/31: 72

2/1: 85
2/2: 232
2/3: 157
2/4: 183
2/5: 100
 

xrnzaaas

Member
I can understand people drawing conclusions based on the severity of China's response (i.e. "if the number of cases is relatively low, which their reports seem to indicate, why lock down the cities?")

However, it isn't the first time China (or other communist countries) make a show of their authority and ability to rapidly mobilize for the sake of outward appearance (i.e. "look at how quickly we can build hospitals and quarantine a city")

The worst outcome for the chinese gov't -- aside from a truly apocalyptic outbreak -- would be if they lost control over the populace.
This is a quite an expensive show for China, it's costing them billions.
 
26% of patients needing to be put in the ICU will be a massive strain on hospital infrastructure at scale.

Right now, in Hubei/Wuhan, there are roughly 3,000 (756 critical, 2325 serious) patients in critical or serious condition (out of 20,000) which is 15% of the total cases there.

If the numbers they gave hold (15% of critical die, 4% of serious die), then we'd be looking at a total death number at around 113 critical deaths, and 93 serious deaths, or 206 total. That seems really on the low side for what we've been seeing daily. Unless this is almost over, and we get 3 more days of 70'ish deaths and then no more.. I think it has to be far worse than they think.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Banned
Holy shit.



80+ million more on lock down, 2 more Chinese provinces.



I can understand Jiangxi being locked down, as it borders Hubei, but Liaoning is ~900 miles from Hubei, on the other side of Beijing.
 

Kadayi

Banned

The third person in the UK to be diagnosed with coronavirus caught it in Singapore, it is understood.

Dude wasn't even in China. :messenger_dizzy:

This shit is virulent. Dude came back from Singapore probably through one of the big London Airports before heading to Brighton and I dare say others will have picked it up from him.

On the Radio, on the way home there was a Government Advert about carrying Antibac and tissues and assuring everyone that the Government was fully prepared to deal with matters, but I'm not so convinced.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Holy shit.



80+ million more on lock down, 2 more Chinese provinces.



Crazy, that’s over three times of the entire population of Australia on lockdown.
 
Why does it seem that non asians are less likely to get sick and die from it?

Maybe because chinese bioweapons specialists designed the coronavirus to be especially lethal against asians to cull the aging population that looms ominously over the ill equipped health infrastructure and lack of young people willing to take care of all the olds so it was released to avoid all those shenanigans and allow a younger, stronger more Chad likely China to emerge as a top superpower

24325830.gif
 
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I guess it's safe to say that China is lying hard on the numbers. In mid/late December there were reports of many places closing down, supposedly for renovations and the like. I just saw a guy on TV saying that this was already because of the flu and that they knew about the virus several weeks before the 31st when news broke out. The guy also said the number of infected and dead could be anywhere from the official numbers up to 10 times higher.

This doctor who died is a fucking hero. I don't believe he died because the government did something to him, more like it shows how deadly this thing is and how bullshit the official reports have been. It absolutely can and will cause healthy people to die.
 
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MrRogers

Member
The most recent numbers out today from hubei province, basically same as yesterday, at this point china is straight up lying, or that they only have the ability to complete 2000-3000 test kits per day.

We will have to wait and see what the rates are in a country like japan or south korea that are more transparent and have better/higher ability to test large amounts of people.

In china it could be 2500 people a day getting infected or 50000, we just dont know anymore, i bet the true number is somewhere inbetween tho.

Also they just closed down 2 more provinces for a total of 130 million people under quarantine now...
 
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GAMETA

Banned
Maybe because chinese bioweapons specialists designed the coronavirus to be especially lethal against asians to cull the aging population that looms ominously over the I'll equipped health infrastructure and lack of young people willing to take care of all the olds so it was released to avoid all those shenanigans and allow a younger, stronger more Chad likely China to emerge as a top superpower

24325830.gif

You can joke about it, but it does seem like it... may not be the case, of course, but it does give the impression.

The Influenza A spread quite homogeneously if I remember correctly, and counter measures were also widespread.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Is everyone infected Asian?

And why did it spread so fast in China, yet we have some confirmed cases outside of China but the numbers aren't going into the thousands with hundreds of deaths.

And final point, China is lying its ass off. Insane that they are quartining 130 million people. This is sci-fi level shit.
 

Shift!

Member
Is everyone infected Asian?

And why did it spread so fast in China, yet we have some confirmed cases outside of China but the numbers aren't going into the thousands with hundreds of deaths.

And final point, China is lying its ass off. Insane that they are quartining 130 million people. This is sci-fi level shit.

No, some people who are infected are from neighboring countries too. There's like two dead in Japan, and I think some people from India are dead too.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
No, some people who are infected are from neighboring countries too. There's like two dead in Japan, and I think some people from India are dead too.

But those are Asians though.

I am talking are there any white/black people infected. I know there are cases in Cali, there was one in Ontario but it wasn't specified if they were of Asian background or not.

Not be racist but are any white people or black people getting infected? Like I said there was a case reported in Ontario yet all of Canada hasn't become infected. The way this thing is going in China it should of spread to other provinces but aside from that case a few weeks ago I haven't heard much about Canada.

Clearly our Westeren governments are more up front and have taken this with more precautions as opposed to the CCP who lied their asses off and tried to cover it up. But they aren't slowing it down that much while the Western world so far seems to have it under control.
 

GAMETA

Banned
But those are Asians though.

I am talking are there any white/black people infected. I know there are cases in Cali, there was one in Ontario but it wasn't specified if they were of Asian background or not.

Not be racist but are any white people or black people getting infected? Like I said there was a case reported in Ontario yet all of Canada hasn't become infected. The way this thing is going in China it should of spread to other provinces but aside from that case a few weeks ago I haven't heard much about Canada.

Clearly our Westeren governments are more up front and have taken this with more precautions as opposed to the CCP who lied their asses off and tried to cover it up. But they aren't slowing it down that much while the Western world so far seems to have it under control.

You're not being racist. You're asking the right question. But apparently, for some reason, no one wants to suggest or accept the possibility.
 

Cybrwzrd

Banned
But those are Asians though.

I am talking are there any white/black people infected. I know there are cases in Cali, there was one in Ontario but it wasn't specified if they were of Asian background or not.

Not be racist but are any white people or black people getting infected? Like I said there was a case reported in Ontario yet all of Canada hasn't become infected. The way this thing is going in China it should of spread to other provinces but aside from that case a few weeks ago I haven't heard much about Canada.

Clearly our Westeren governments are more up front and have taken this with more precautions as opposed to the CCP who lied their asses off and tried to cover it up. But they aren't slowing it down that much while the Western world so far seems to have it under control.


There were a few Germans who caught it. But they apparently just had mild symptoms.

What I've been reading is that the virus's pathway is the ACE2 receptors in the lungs, which Asians have more of or something like that.

Which is also like SARS, mind you.
 
Why does it seem that non asians are less likely to get sick and die from it?

A. It was genetically designed (by China or otherwise) to impact Asian/Chinese genes moreso than any other, to hit them harder and faster than anyone else.

B. Geography/location/Luck/Timing. Where it started, and where it has spread to was a combination of a lot of factors. Wuhan wasn't properly taken care of initially, which allowed it to spread out of control. Other provinces had a head start, so they could contain things better, other countries even more so.

C. Chinese people have compromised immune and/or lung issues due to the pervasive pollution in China. This is a perfect match for this virus's symptoms, and likely results in far more serious cases than in other countries (Or "The West") where people are generally healthy. Chinese people (men especially) are still known to smoke like chimneys, where it has gone out of style for the most part in the USA and other places.

Updates..





Based just on Wuhan/Hubei here..

2/4: 65 deaths, 16DL=84%, 10DL=9.4%, 5DL=3.2%, TM=2.0%
2/5: 71 deaths, 16DL=76%, 10DL=9.2%, 5DL=3.3%, TM=1.9%
2/6: 69 deaths, 16DL=46%, 10DL=3.8%, 5DL=2.6%, TM=2.0%

Note, 10 days ago the confirmed case count jumped from 769 reported to 1771 reported, overnight.

I don't know if we're hitting test kit limits, Chinese data obfuscation, or both, or something else, but the #'s don't seem quite right.

 

Mikado

Member


Video re-uploaded by Dr. Campbell albeit with a segment seemingly cut out around 19:24.
 
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Mikado

Member
What/why was something cut from the video?

According to him he just re-uploaded it to change the title, so maybe that edit was even in the original video? (like maybe he messed up a sentence or so and I didn't notice the edit earlier). Was able to watch the first one when it was up, but closed the tab so couldn't compare it to this one. Otherwise seems identical.

Edit: From the looks of the comments from people who did download the video are confirming it's the same and nothing was edited.
 
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So total for the day (2/6)

+3072 new cases
+73 new deaths
+184 people discharged

Numbers a little different according to Chinese mouthpiece..



+3143 new cases
+73 deaths
 
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