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[sinnergy]

Social distancing and good hygene is enough. Lockdowns do more harm then they do good.

I can't understand the absolute madness around COVID19. This is a virus completely harmless for a huge majority of the population. Corona is no death sentance for anyone not having multiple diseases or/and at a very advanced age, and among those groups most people survive just fine. The insanely strong reactions from governments towards corona has unnecessarily hurt the global economy and who knows how many people have died and will die due to that, not unlikely a fair bit more. It's not the black death people.

I also wonder why infection numbers are spouted as this sensational thing, so what? They're not terribly accurate either since most people who's gotten infected never took a test or visited a health facility.

If your hospital system is overrun you have no choice, To be honest , is it that hard to understand? The virus circulates to fast and needs to be stopped . Otherwise you have an endless stream going into health care ...
with deaths as a result , Covid and. None Covid .
That’s what happend here in March , we had 600 available IC spots but 1400 in the ICS for our whole country .

And those 1400 where Almost alone from 1 state , and we have 12.. so do the math .

It was always about overload more than dying from this virus.
Now they have much more understanding and grip and insights into the spread so you can handle accordingly.

The Scandinavian countries never had a full overload on their health care systems to begin with.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Yes a short list as fast example , you could add, Spain , France , Portugal , the UK . And if you know more add those .

But all those governments around the globe must be imbeciles, and all those scientists retards ! Right ? All of them !

Those places weren’t overrun. They had deaths. But they didn’t have broad hospital overloads. And yes, political health officials are often completely unqualified to make these decisions.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes a short list as fast example , you could add, Spain , France , Portugal , the UK . And if you know more add those .

But all those governments around the globe must be imbeciles, and all those scientists retards ! Right ? All of them !

Yes they are all retards. Or they are evil. Either way. They got scared from a piece of shit model by a known alarmist. It was never about sound and firm science. It was mass hysteria followed by CYA idiocy.

The guy who made the call in Sweden is smart sure but he’s not some super genius. He has the same training as all these people. He saw the same data and same models. It’s worth thinking about why he saw the same situation and made a completely different call, and why nobody else did.

The truth is - problems with the logic that led to lockdowns were obvious. I was talking about them in March and April. I knew the numbers they were throwing around were bogus. It was not a puzzle or some deep mystery. It was always a terrible idea but it was just herd mentality right off the cliff. That might be tough to think about especially if you grew up in q culture that always placed great trust in government and technocracy, but it’s important.

It’s worth it to stop thinking about this consensus like it had some roots in truth and wisdom, as you seem to do. It is just not the case. It wouldn’t be the first time some brain trust led us horribly astray.

 

[sinnergy]

So how should we have handled???

with our ics being overrun in March ? Cause that happend here ! Our ics where full and we needed military ones and that also wasn’t enough. And because of this people died !

And keep in mind we didn’t have a strict lockdown.

 

[WoJ]

Yes a short list as fast example , you could add, Spain , France , Portugal , the UK . And if you know more add those .

But all those governments around the globe must be imbeciles, and all those scientists retards ! Right ? All of them !

Groupthink is a thing. You've got a lot of narcissists and egomaniacs (which let's face it, if you're in a governmental leadership position you are both of these things) who probably didn't want to look bad so of course they doubled down on what they started with.

As for scientists, 50% of scientists finished in the bottom 50% of their class. Now in fairness, that doesn't mean they are all stupid. But so far we are only allowed to hear from the "approved" list of scientists and take their advice with Lord Fauci at the top of that list. Fauci has lost all credibility with me, doesn't speak with any real data or facts, but instead speaks in generalities. He lies to the public and then claims he did it for our own good and then tries to weasel his way out of it. He said lockdowns were necessary, then as things started to reopen claimed he didn't say we needed to lockdown as much as we did. He's a liar. He's more politician than doctor.

As for hospitals being overrun, that was never going to happen. The data on that is pretty clear at this point. Maybe some places, but not everywhere. I live in one of the most densely populated counties in Ohio. Compared to NYC our population density is nothing, but we are probably "average" for a good chunk of America. We were never close to our hospitals being overrun here. My wife works at the biggest hospital in the county and said they turned most of the hospital into COVID units in March.....lo and behold the hospital was at the lowest capacity ever in the 15 years she has worked there. Since then everything at the hospital is back to normal (in the sense that they are running surgeries, have lifted some visitor restrictions, but still require masks, etc) pre-COVID. Guess what? They still haven't been overrun. They have two units completely dedicated to COVID. The second one got patients in it for the first time in August and now they are back to having only one unit treating COVID. They turned our convention center here to a field hospital and never used it and are spending something like 60k per month to leave it operational.

In addition large gatherings have been banned since March. Restaurants were closed with indoor dining until June. Since then we saw some uptick in cases over the summer but it plateaued around July 4th. We are having cases, hospitalizations, ICU beds and deaths remain flat to down now for almost 3 months. People are going to restaurants, shopping, going outside to parks. I've seen enormous gatherings at parks where social distancing is not happening and neither are masks. Yet somehow our numbers remain flat to down.

Daycares opened back at full ratios in August and limited ratios in June. Yet for some reason schools aren't allowed to go back to normal capacity (even though daycares are). Explain that one to me. I'm sure "science" has an answer. All these moves back to normalcy but yet we haven't seen the case spikes or deaths or overran hospitals we were told we would have. But wait, let me guess, masks while going to get groceries and walking through a restaurant wearing one only to take it off at a table and cough freely everywhere is what is saving us all, right? It couldn't possible be that maybe COVID isn't as dangerous as we first thought. A couple pages back I posted our hospital capacity ratios in the state. Hospital beds are 20% empty and less than 5% of patients are COVID patients. Same ratios apply to ICU's. This is after months of our reopening.

I'd have more respect for some of these restrictions if they weren't a political game being played and if they weren't driven by fear mongering. If you want me to social distance and want to limit large gatherings for a while through flu season I can almost get behind that. But spare me the hospitals were/are getting overrun crap. The data doesn't support it. Maybe it does in some places, but not everywhere, and we shouldn't be applying the same standards to every single location. But yet that's what we've chosen to do. All in the name of "science" and "safety".

 

[sinnergy]

But how should we have handled it ?

I never said lock down was universal . And I am not I I politics ... I keep far away from left and right middle up down .

 

[cryptoadam]

But how should we have handled it ?

I never said lock down was universal . And I am not I I politics ... I keep fat away from left and right middle up down .

Promote mitigation methods. If you believe in masks instead of saying don't wear masks promote indoor mask wearing.
Protect old age homes at all costs, invest all protection there. PPE, lots of staff, testing, even quarantines. Since 50%+ of deaths came out of these homes that should of been the number 1 priority.

Basically what Sweden did is what the rest of the world should have done.

 

[WoJ]

But how should we have handled it ?

I never said lock down was universal . And I am not I I politics ... I keep far away from left and right middle up down .

Promote mitigation methods. If you believe in masks instead of saying don't wear masks promote indoor mask wearing.
Protect old age homes at all costs, invest all protection there. PPE, lots of staff, testing, even quarantines. Since 50%+ of deaths came out of these homes that should of been the number 1 priority.

Basically what Sweden did is what the rest of the world should have done.

Basically this. After lock downs we should have emulated Sweden. Instead we haven't and have this game of restrictions with governors threatening to take more shit away or impose more restrictions on us for being bad. Life should basically be back to normal in most places especially here in the states with some protective measures around the sick and elderly. And I'd say limits on large gatherings until we get through flu season. Everyone else should be allowed to move on with our lives like we always have.

 

[sinnergy]

Basically this. After lock downs we should have emulated Sweden. Instead we haven't and have this game of restrictions with governors threatening to take more shit away or impose more restrictions on us for being bad. Life should basically be back to normal in most places especially here in the states with some protective measures around the sick and elderly. And I'd say limits on large gatherings until we get through flu season. Everyone else should be allowed to move on with our lives like we always have.

We did that ! Not every thing is about the USA. What you guys primarily did wrong , was coming to soon out of lock down for economical gains . But the virus was still circulating to fast . But economics are about people .

And yet now our states that didn’t really got hit in March are next ...

In the end it’s about to accept for what it is and life as much as you can.

And obey the simple rules, wash your hands often, avoid crowds, sneeze in you elbows and wear masks when appropriate.

Deal with it animated

If not , new measures like for Amsterdam/Rotterdam / The Hague/ Utrecht .

 

[Joe T.]

Yes a short list as fast example , you could add, Spain , France , Portugal , the UK . And if you know more add those .

But all those governments around the globe must be imbeciles, and all those scientists retards ! Right ? All of them !

Governments and scientists that refuse to admit they might have been wrong and learn from their mistakes are much worse than imbeciles given the impact of these decisions. Mistakes are conducive to learning, but many of the officials we relied upon and the people that followed them blindly are now locked in denial.

What good is a scientist that refuses to admit they could be wrong and learn? Science has long been corrupted by the influence of money and politics, case in point:

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Dr. Zeke Emanuel has basically parroted Bill Gates in claiming this is a very serious virus that "will be with us for the next 18 months or more" and life "will not return to normalcy until we find a vaccine." He said that the first week of April and is now profiting from the lock downs by consulting businesses on how to reopen safely. He's also "coronavirus advisor" to the US president's election opponent. A shining example of how money, politics and conflicts of interest damage the credibility of science.

Always follow the money. It helps explain why New York practically murdered its most vulnerable in old age homes. It explains why Gilead had so much positive press while hydroxychloroquine was treated as some sort of dangerous unknown quantity despite its 60+ year history of safety (look up how it compares to Tylenol or Benadryl, for example). It explains why everyone in media is careful about how they approach Bill Gates, as Vox described it in 2015: "too big to scrutinize."

The field of science has been corrupted and there's no shortage of people that have been sounding the warning bells over the last decade or two. Quoted from the NIH website, "Skeptical of medical science reports?":

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as editor of The New England Journal of Medicine” (1).

More recently, Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, wrote that “The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness”

You're making a big mistake if you're giving these people blind trust.

 

[diffusionx]

We did that ! Not every thing is about the USA. What you guys primarily did wrong , was coming to soon out of lock down for economical gains . But the virus was still circulating to fast . But economics are about people .

And yet now our states that didn’t really got hit in March are next ...

In the end it’s about to accept for what it is and life as much as you can.

And obey the simple rules, wash your hands often, avoid crowds, sneeze in you elbows and wear masks when appropriate.

Deal with it animated

If not , new measures like for Amsterdam/Rotterdam / The Hague/ Utrecht .

Damn I thought we were close to breaking the conditioning.

Every country, city, state, town, etc. should have adopted Sweden's model as soon as it was feasible to do so. In New York, that would have been earlyt April when it became obvious that fuckface Ferguson's models were garbage and the place had the capacity to handle it. In places like Texas and California it should have been run like Sweden from day one. So that's what your municipality should have done. Lockdowns past 2 weeks were a destructive waste of time, and masks are a needless distraction from the reality.

If every place did that, every place would be Sweden now, very few cases, no deaths, no lockdown hysteria, no mask nonsense, a functioning economy.

I am not sure what garbage they told you about the US but places were reopening because there were no goddamn cases lol. And the reopenings were going fine until the protests. There is absolutely no reason to avoid crowds or wear masks.

 

[diffusionx]

Literally hours after this article came out:

Nashville moving to Phase 3 on Oct. 1; bars can increase capacity starting today

Nashville Mayor John Cooper says the city will move to its Phase Three of reopening beginning October 1. However, bars and restaurants can increase their capacity starting Friday.

www.newschannel5.com

 

[Cracklox]

Say that to countries or regions that got overrun .. Italy , New York for example ...

A lock down is necessary when shit isn’t controllable anymore , which happened in lots of places . You could argue that a national lockdown wasn’t necessary. But lock downs have their purpose.

It depends on your starting point , maybe the Swedes and Scandinavia has relative less positives...

For example the part I life in in The Netherlands and the north have relative less infections , that’s not to say we are out of it , as now our infections seem to rise.

You could argue that our part didn’t need lockdown back in March but with the knowledge they had they had to make decisions.

In one part of the country they had 10 times more infected people than they could test and signal. In total 120k infections, that’s why those parts had overrun hospitals and patients even needed to be moved from the ic to a German ic.

First the hammer and later the dance.
We are now in the dance part with less measures and when needed more measures. In the end our approach is not that different from the Swedes as we didn’t had a full lock down , could go shopping , working , not wearing masks etc .. smaller groups .

So where I am, Victoria Australia, we have now surpassed Wuhan for the longest lockdown in the world. And we're right up there with the strictest. We have a curfew, can only travel 5ks from home, only allowed out for exercise for 2hours a day (was 1 until a few days ago). Amongst other things. And its not set to end until the end of october, and thats on the proviso case numbers fall within a certain range.

Then you have more and more instances of heavy handed and unnecessary policing of some of these 'laws' like a pregnant lady handcuffed and whisked away in front of her kids, because she made a post on facebook wanting to organise a protest against some of the draconian crap going on here. Riot squads being deployed against people peacefully protesting this (and not the CNN definition. Actually peaceful), but not a finger lifted towards a far larger BLM protest a few months ago. Old ladies being harassed by police in a park because they're out getting fresh air. And thats just some of the examples that were actually caught on film. All that and more and we have had 832 deaths, with an average age of over 80, with around 75% of deaths in nursing homes. In a population of 25 million...

So the point I'm trying to make is slippery slopes are slippery. Our lockdown didn't start so bad. It was probably in line with what most other places in the world were doing. But then the dreaded second wave hit and before we knew it, masks were mandated, and then the absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary stage 4 was introduced. And then the ccp style policing against people who disagree with what the governments doing began. Now we are at a point with an economy destroyed, small businesses especially in ruins, record unemployment and a police force and government that has lost trust from many of the public. Not to mention the amount of debt this state is likely going to be in for years or decades even. And there's no real end in sight due to the ridiculous qualifiers of our state Dictators 'roadmap to nowhere recovery'.

And then I see places like New Zealand or other states here in Australia freak the fuck out when they get a few cases. I can only think if those places have a spike like we did here, then they'll have something similar implemented. Something similar being borderline communist governing of the people.

That was longer then intended. TLDR i suppose

Fuck Lockdowns

 

[Emedan]

If your hospital system is overrun you have no choice, To be honest , is it that hard to understand? The virus circulates to fast and needs to be stopped . Otherwise you have an endless stream going into health care ...
with deaths as a result , Covid and. None Covid .
That’s what happend here in March , we had 600 available IC spots but 1400 in the ICS for our whole country .

And those 1400 where Almost alone from 1 state , and we have 12.. so do the math .

It was always about overload more than dying from this virus.
Now they have much more understanding and grip and insights into the spread so you can handle accordingly.

The Scandinavian countries never had a full overload on their health care systems to begin with.

True, we didn't. Even though Sweden have like the second to last amount of IC beds in the EU and we never had any lockdown. Self regulating kept it in check. Though our elderly community were hit hard (and immigrants for some reason), though that kind of died down pretty quickly too - and I get it, old and sick peoples lives have value too of course but there has to be some reason to it. I could also kind of understand the argument that the whole workforce can't be home sick for 2 weeks, but in countries with full lockdown thats like a moot point, the lockdown killed the economy and jobs anyway. 80% of people never even get seriously ill - probably even higher percentage in the workforce honestly.

Recent studies also show that perhaps too many people were treated too aggressively with induced comas and respirators when it weren't necessary.

In the end, yeah a lockdown might hinder spread, but it's only effective as long as the lockdown is in place, the spread will start again as soon as you open up. Better to let the virus spread evenly throughout since it can't be stopped and you can't have a whole country in lockdown for years until a viable vaccine is in place - for two reasons really:

1. The country's economy will die
2. People will not accept it

 

[HellforLeather]

Literally hours after this article came out:

Nashville moving to Phase 3 on Oct. 1; bars can increase capacity starting today

Nashville Mayor John Cooper says the city will move to its Phase Three of reopening beginning October 1. However, bars and restaurants can increase their capacity starting Friday.

www.newschannel5.com

I certainly hope that all of these fucks are facing recalls after this.

 

[frostyxc]

Literally hours after this article came out:

Nashville moving to Phase 3 on Oct. 1; bars can increase capacity starting today

Nashville Mayor John Cooper says the city will move to its Phase Three of reopening beginning October 1. However, bars and restaurants can increase their capacity starting Friday.

www.newschannel5.com

Where are those artards with the guillotine when you need them?

 

[Joe T.]

These two stories printed on the same day for Montreal which is in a "yellow zone":

Quebec schools will stay mostly open in a second wave, even in 'red' zones: minister

Quebec's schools will largely stay open no matter how bad the next wave of the pandemic gets, the province's authorities said Thursday.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

Only certain schools would need to close their doors, and even then only "temporarily," in regions ultimately designated as "red" under Quebec's colour-coded COVID-19 alert system, said Minister of Education Jean-François Roberge.

A Montreal high school is closing for two weeks after a COVID-19 outbreak

Herzliah High School is closing for two weeks after a COVID-19 outbreak, the biggest in a school on the Island of Montreal to date.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

 

[Mistake]

Came across this, which surprisingly isn't banned off youtube yet (knock on wood)


I'm not familiar with this news source. Could Australians chime in?

 

[Breakage]

Just heard about this on the radio this evening. It's coming from the Financial Times (posted the whole thing since it seems to be behind a paywall):
Second national lockdown proposed by UK scientific advisers
Government’s advisory bodies look at restrictions to coincide with October school half-term
Leading scientists advising the UK government have proposed a two-week national lockdown in October to try to tackle the rising number of coronavirus cases.

The move highlights how Boris Johnson might come under increasing pressure to introduce a second national lockdown, even though he has said he is strongly against such a measure.

Experts on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) and the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (Spi-m) have suggested a national lockdown that could coincide with the October school half-term.

The government is keen to avoid the reclosure of schools, having shut them during the national lockdown in March and only fully reopening them this autumn.

That helps to explain why the government’s scientific advisers have looked at how a two-week national lockdown might coincide with the October half- term as part of efforts to bring Covid-19 under control.

“As schools will be closed for one week at half-term, adding an extra week to that will have limited impact on education,” said one scientist who is a member of Sage, confirming the body had considered the case for a national lockdown in October.

Another scientist who is a member of Spi-m said the body had also looked at a national lockdown that could take place next month.

The number of positive Covid-19 cases is doubling every seven to eight days in England, according to statistical analysis released last Friday by Imperial College London and Ipsos Mori.

The analysis estimated the reproduction rate of the virus, or the R, the average number of new cases generated by an infected person, stood at 1.7, meaning the disease is spreading exponentially.

The scientist who sits on Sage said if the R number continued at the same level as currently, it would “break the NHS”, adding that the test-and-trace system was “creaking at the seams”.

On Wednesday, the prime minister told MPs that a second national lockdown would be “disastrous” for the economy.

“I don’t want a second national lockdown — I think it would be completely wrong for this country and we are going to do everything in our power to prevent it,” Mr Johnson said.

But much is likely to hinge on whether the government’s new “rule of six” rule — restricting social gatherings to six people — serves to halt the rise in Covid-19 infections.

“If it doesn’t work, a whole range of unpalatable options come into view,” said a government official.
The official added that at the top of the government there was “a very strong reluctance to go anywhere near another national lockdown”, but said: “There’s a difference between not wanting to go back to another lockdown and having to go back.”
A government spokesperson said: “The government is continuing to closely monitor infection levels and taking decisive action to protect people such as introducing local lockdowns and banning gatherings of groups larger than six.
“Scientific and medical professionals have provided advice throughout the pandemic.”

On Thursday, the north-east of England became the latest area of the UK to have a local lockdown imposed on it because of rising Covid-19 infections.

Matt Hancock, the health secretary, held talks last week with Sadiq Khan, London’s mayor, and local council leaders to discuss contingency plans for new restrictions in the capital, but such an outcome is not seen as “inevitable”, according to government insiders.

Meanwhile Dido Harding, who heads the government's test-and-trace programme in England, “strongly refuted” suggestions that the scheme was failing.

Following widespread reports of people struggling to obtain tests, because of capacity limits at laboratories that process results, Baroness Harding defended herself against accusations that the government had failed to prepare for a predictable surge in demand when children returned to school.

She said lab capacity had doubled between the end of May and September and emphasised that this had been done in accordance with information supplied by Sage. “We built our testing capacity plans based on Sage modelling,” said Baroness Harding.
After Mr Hancock announced on Tuesday that for the time being certain groups would be prioritised for tests, Baroness Harding said hospital patients would have first call, followed by those in care homes, then NHS workers.

Second national lockdown proposed by UK scientific advisers

Government’s advisory bodies look at restrictions to coincide with October school half-term

www.ft.com

 

[cryptoadam]

2 week lock down and then what? Oh the virus will just be gone after 2 weeks? LOL.

You had all summer to gear up. There was like a 2 month lull, were they not getting extra staff and beds ready?

 

[diffusionx]

It's just magical thinking at this point, unbelievable. Has nothing to do with science or data, just fantasy.

We are probably headed in that direction too. You can tell Democratic governors are just waiting for a rise incases to keep things locked down through the first week in November.

 

[Joe T.]

Just heard about this on the radio this evening. It's coming from the Financial Times (posted the whole thing since it seems to be behind a paywall):

Leading scientists advising the UK government have proposed a two-week national lockdown in October to try to tackle the rising number of coronavirus cases.

Experts on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) and the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (Spi-m) have suggested a national lockdown that could coincide with the October school half-term.

“As schools will be closed for one week at half-term, adding an extra week to that will have limited impact on education,” said one scientist who is a member of Sage, confirming the body had considered the case for a national lockdown in October.

Another scientist who is a member of Spi-m said the body had also looked at a national lockdown that could take place next month.

The scientist who sits on Sage said if the R number continued at the same level as currently, it would “break the NHS”, adding that the test-and-trace system was “creaking at the seams”.

I love how they avoided attaching names to those remarks, there's a decent sized list of them at the official site. If the data/science was sound and they could use it to make a strong argument they would have nothing to fear.

 

[sinnergy]

True, we didn't. Even though Sweden have like the second to last amount of IC beds in the EU and we never had any lockdown. Self regulating kept it in check. Though our elderly community were hit hard (and immigrants for some reason), though that kind of died down pretty quickly too - and I get it, old and sick peoples lives have value too of course but there has to be some reason to it. I could also kind of understand the argument that the whole workforce can't be home sick for 2 weeks, but in countries with full lockdown thats like a moot point, the lockdown killed the economy and jobs anyway. 80% of people never even get seriously ill - probably even higher percentage in the workforce honestly.

Recent studies also show that perhaps too many people were treated too aggressively with induced comas and respirators when it weren't necessary.

In the end, yeah a lockdown might hinder spread, but it's only effective as long as the lockdown is in place, the spread will start again as soon as you open up. Better to let the virus spread evenly throughout since it can't be stopped and you can't have a whole country in lockdown for years until a viable vaccine is in place - for two reasons really:

1. The country's economy will die
2. People will not accept it

Again if that’s a option , so if your hospital system is not overrun with severe cases in age groups 50 and up , if it is in areas a lockdown is a viable option To get control over spread back .

How can you run an economy when lots of people are sick that they need to stay home for about 2 weeks like a heavy flu and your hospitals are being overrun ? Because that happened here in countries and regions . You have to slow the spread and quickly anything above a R of 1 results in to many infections .

Serious question ?

 

[Jezbollah]

2 week lock down and then what? Oh the virus will just be gone after 2 weeks? LOL.

You had all summer to gear up. There was like a 2 month lull, were they not getting extra staff and beds ready?

The big danger now is that dumb proposals like this will only see scientific advisors standings in the populace going down. A two week lockdown is futile. If they want their advice and expertise to lose credibility, they're doing a good job about it.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

 

[MisterFalcon]

That's very encouraging. But my weasel words detector went off with

We now know that up to 90% of people with a "positive" PCR test may not actually be infectious.

-Saying 'up to 90%' is a meaningless statement, even if it turns out to be one in a million that's still 'up to 90%'
-And then adding the 'may not' accounts for even zero cases
-Putting positive in quotes is not professional for a doctor. Or maybe 'doctor'.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

That's very encouraging. But my weasel words detector went off with



-Saying 'up to 90%' is a meaningless statement, even if it turns out to be one in a million that's still 'up to 90%'
-And then adding the 'may not' accounts for even zero cases
-Putting positive in quotes is not professional for a doctor. Or maybe 'doctor'.

Because of how sensitive the tests are putting positive in quotes makes sense, before COVID such sensitivity levels weren't used due to false positives.

 

[MisterFalcon]

If 90% is not infectious then those 10% are working very, very hard all over the world to keep up the new infections.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

If 90% is not infectious then those 10% are working very, very hard all over the world to keep up the new infections.

Did you miss the part about how the testing is too sensitive to be sure you're not getting false positives?

 

[Airbus Jr]

2 week lock down and then what? Oh the virus will just be gone after 2 weeks? LOL.

You had all summer to gear up. There was like a 2 month lull, were they not getting extra staff and beds ready?

According to dr Fauci prediction the virus wont dissapear until the end of 2021

So it will around for quite sometime

 

[Jezbollah]

We were told months ago that we'd be living with Corona for years to come.

And now we're looking at it disappearing a year from now?

I'd say that's pretty good news.

 

[Breakage]

2 week lock down and then what? Oh the virus will just be gone after 2 weeks? LOL.

You had all summer to gear up. There was like a 2 month lull, were they not getting extra staff and beds ready?

Our cowardly government sat back and allowed all those mass gatherings for BLM in the midst of a pandemic. Black people are supposedly more vulnerable to Covid, yet the government did nothing to discourage them. Apparently racism is a bigger killer than Covid-19.
The government then decided to encourage people to go out and eat by covering up to 50% of their meal costs. So people went out and packed the all bars and restaurants with no social distancing.
And now the cases are going back up again. There have been stricter lockdowns that have been recently brought in for millions of people in the north of England. Latest is that the Prime Minister is now considering a “circuit breaker “ short term national lockdown.

 

[hariseldon]

Our cowardly government sat back and allowed all those mass gatherings for BLM in the midst of a pandemic. Black people are supposedly more vulnerable to Covid, yet the government did nothing to discourage them. Apparently racism is a bigger killer than Covid-19.
The government then decided to encourage people to go out and eat by covering up to 50% of their meal costs. So people went out and packed the all bars and restaurants with no social distancing.
And now the cases are going back up again. There have been stricter lockdowns that have been recently brought in for millions of people in the north of England. Latest is that the Prime Minister is now considering a “circuit breaker “ short term national lockdown.

We're doing about 250000 tests per day and finding 3000-ish positive cases per day while the tests are known to have about a 1% false-positive rate. Meanwhile deaths are steady around 20 a day with even the government website admitting that some of those deaths might not be from COVID. It's just horse-shit at this point.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Our cowardly government sat back and allowed all those mass gatherings for BLM in the midst of a pandemic. Black people are supposedly more vulnerable to Covid, yet the government did nothing to discourage them. Apparently racism is a bigger killer than Covid-19.
The government then decided to encourage people to go out and eat by covering up to 50% of their meal costs. So people went out and packed the all bars and restaurants with no social distancing.
And now the cases are going back up again. There have been stricter lockdowns that have been recently brought in for millions of people in the north of England. Latest is that the Prime Minister is now considering a “circuit breaker “ short term national lockdown.

It’s just insane. The way this is being reported in Europe is fucking criminal. They’re talking about how the cases are higher now than they were in March. That’s complete bullshit. THERE WERE NO TESTS IN MARCH. The cases were 10x higher than the positives test results.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Did you miss the part about how the testing is too sensitive to be sure you're not getting false positives?

No, he is talking about 'positives' for cases where the virus is detected but he believes they are not contagious. Which is an interesting theory but throwing out the number of 90% is extremely misleading.

A true false positive is reporting the virus when there is none due to contagion in the testing process. The PCR test is extremely specific and will not report positive for anything other then the covid virus.

 

[diffusionx]

It’s just insane. The way this is being reported in Europe is fucking criminal. They’re talking about how the cases are higher now than they were in March. That’s complete bullshit. THERE WERE NO TESTS IN MARCH. The cases were 10x higher than the positives test results.

They did the same thing here, claiming Florida "broke New York's record" with a daily case count. Except Florida hit that number with seriously 100x more tests being done. At the height of the pandemic in NY they were telling sick people to stay home and not even bother with a test.

Nobody has any interest in actually tracking this virus (well I do, but I'm a nobody). It's all about just ginning up monster numbers to scare people.

 

[Breakage]

We're doing about 250000 tests per day and finding 3000-ish positive cases per day while the tests are known to have about a 1% false-positive rate. Meanwhile deaths are steady around 20 a day with even the government website admitting that some of those deaths might not be from COVID. It's just horse-shit at this point.

It’s just insane. The way this is being reported in Europe is fucking criminal. They’re talking about how the cases are higher now than they were in March. That’s complete bullshit. THERE WERE NO TESTS IN MARCH. The cases were 10x higher than the positives test results.

I don't think they even know what they are doing anymore. The government is planning to close pubs and restaurants again as part of this new proposed national lockdown. So it all closes for a couple of weeks and then reopens. What will that achieve? It's just bizarre.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

No, he is talking about 'positives' for cases where the virus is detected but he believes they are not contagious. Which is an interesting theory but throwing out the number of 90% is extremely misleading.

A true false positive is reporting the virus when there is none due to contagion in the testing process. The PCR test is extremely specific and will not report positive for anything other then the covid virus.

"Instead, new data underscore the need for more widespread use of rapid tests, even if they are less sensitive."

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)

The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.

www.nytimes.com

 

[diffusionx]

"Instead, new data underscore the need for more widespread use of rapid tests, even if they are less sensitive."

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)

The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.

www.nytimes.com

We need less tests. Everyone made fun of Trump way back when he said basically zero tests zero cases but the longer this goes on, the more true it has become. When there are 26,000 ”positive” tests for college kids, 0 hospitalizations, and a vast majority have no symptoms, what does it accomplish? These idiot administrators are using it to justify more lockdown. It is not helping anyone.

It is obvious by know that these tests are being criminally misused to justify insane counterproductive measures, authoritarian edicts, and endless fear mongering.

Unless you are actually sick with flu-like symptoms, just dont bother. The tests are a scam.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

We need less tests. Everyone made fun of Trump way back when he said basically zero tests zero cases but the longer this goes on, the more true it has become. When there are 26,000 ”positive” tests for college kids, 0 hospitalizations, and a vast majority have no symptoms, what does it accomplish? These idiot administrators are using it to justify more lockdown. It is not helping anyone.

It is obvious by know that these tests are being criminally misused to justify insane counterproductive measures, authoritarian edicts, and endless fear mongering.

Unless you are actually sick with flu-like symptoms, just dont bother. The tests are a scam.

I agree, I just think it's funny he's talking up PCR tests when even NYT is advocating rapid tests.

 

[ManaByte]

Want the vaccine? You better not live in a blue state, because ORANGE MAN BAD:

Exclusive: States plan to independently vet COVID-19 vaccine data - Roll Call

State officials are skeptical of federal reviews of potential COVID-19 vaccines, with some planning to independently analyze clinical trial data.

www.rollcall.com

 

[cryptoadam]

2 months ago if you said I ain't taking the Gates Vaccine you would be banned from twitter and called a crazy Qanon conspiracy theorist. Shunned from society, no health care, no restaurants, no air planes, no job NADA ZIP ZILCH NOTHING.

Now Orange Man, well fuck those vaccines my body my choice how dare you make me take a vaccine. Don't trust vaccines mark of the beast they will zombify you.

I am 100% sure I called this a few months ago that once Trump had a vaccine the left would become anti-vaxxers. 12D chess by Trump. He doesn't like vaccines so if he starts supporting them he knows the left will be against it. So now forced vaccinations won't be a thing, Gates/WHO plan is going to the dumps.

 

[Jezbollah]

We're doing about 250000 tests per day and finding 3000-ish positive cases per day while the tests are known to have about a 1% false-positive rate. Meanwhile deaths are steady around 20 a day with even the government website admitting that some of those deaths might not be from COVID. It's just horse-shit at this point.

And people are seeing through this. Normal people consider the big numbers that are good news. The bloodthirsty focus on the small numbers that aren't.

I'm surprised that people like Ed Conway at Sky havent been fired - he for one is not afraid to present the numbers in a balanced way. Cant have that there sir.

 

[Chittagong]

 

[Cracklox]

Came across this, which surprisingly isn't banned off youtube yet (knock on wood)


I'm not familiar with this news source. Could Australians chime in?

Sky News here would be considered much the same as Fox News in America. They're cable only so not sure if that classifies as 'msm', but they're the only major news source hear talking about the truth behind all this and calling out all the fear mongering. Like Fox News, they're despised by plenty too but that's mostly because they take a pretty hard right stance on most things.

All that said, its pretty much the only news I watch now if I want facts or people talking sense. I still watch some of the others sometimes but thats mostly for the lols, and to get an idea just how hard they're pushing narratives

 

[Joe T.]

That's very encouraging. But my weasel words detector went off with

How has that survived this pandemic? The language around tests alone uses wording even worse than what you took exception with here, never mind all the high profile officials.

We're living through another 9/11 and Iraq war scenario right now and January will make that clear to everyone in case the return to lock downs don't. Let's hope we aren't looking back 20 years from now with regret for not having paid more attention to the lies sold to us as truth and the facts quickly dismissed as conspiracy theories.

 

[Breakage]

From the PM himself:
Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM

The UK is "now seeing a second wave" of Covid-19, Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said, adding "it's been inevitable we'd see it in this country".

Mr Johnson also said he did not "want to go into bigger lockdown measures", but that tighter social distancing restrictions may be necessary.

It comes as new rules were confirmed for Lancashire, Merseyside, parts of the Midlands and West Yorkshire.

On Friday, the UK recorded a further 4,322 confirmed cases of coronavirus.

"Clearly when you look at what is happening, you've got wonder whether we need to go further than the rule of six that we brought in," the PM said during a trip to Oxford.

He added that "the British people have done an amazing job - they've brought that peak down by discipline" but that "people find it difficult to keep this up, it's difficult to maintain that discipline for a long time".

Covid: UK seeing second wave, says Boris Johnson

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want another lockdown - but national measures may need to be tightened.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mistake]

Sky News here would be considered much the same as Fox News in America. They're cable only so not sure if that classifies as 'msm', but they're the only major news source hear talking about the truth behind all this and calling out all the fear mongering. Like Fox News, they're despised by plenty too but that's mostly because they take a pretty hard right stance on most things.

All that said, its pretty much the only news I watch now if I want facts or people talking sense. I still watch some of the others sometimes but thats mostly for the lols, and to get an idea just how hard they're pushing narratives

I see, thanks. I watch fox occasionally, but only their night segments which are decent. Daytime makes me feel like I'm losing brain cells. I honestly can't make a decision with all the virus and medicine stuff, so I just protect myself until it blows over and we get overwhelming facts out

 

[Airbus Jr]

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests

• • Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known
  • French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests

• • Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known
  • French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

A research team in Hungary pinched the
coronavirus
with a fine needle to measure how much force it could take before popping like a balloon.
It did not.
The native virion of Sars-CoV-2 – a complete virus particle – was only about 80 nanometres wide, and the needle tip was much smaller than that. The tip drove from the top of the virus to the bottom. The virion was squashed, then immediately rebounded as the needle left.
The researchers repeated the drill 100 times and the same viral particle remained almost intact.


It is “surprisingly resilient,” said the team led by Dr Miklos Kellermayer of Semmelweis University in Budapest in a non-peer-reviewed paper posted on biorxiv.org Thursday.
Scientists from the Semmelweis University in Budapest pinched the coronavirus with nano needle. Credit: Dr Miklos Kellermayer
The new coronavirus has constantly surprised scientists with its unique structure. For instance, a team from Tsinghua University in Beijing released the most detailed structural reconstruction of the virus in the journal Cell this week with the discovery that the virus could pile a large amount of nucleic acid ribbon that carries genetic data into a very tight envelope without becoming tangled with each other.

Advertisement
However, the virus used in this and other previous studies was frozen to obtain a sharp, stable shot for the camera.

Coronavirus science latest: vaccines, treatments, reinfection and research
21 May 2020

Kellermayer’s team captured how the virus behaved when it was alive. They put the viral particles on a tray coated with a biological binding material.
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The material could fix the virus in position. Under a laser-emitting atomic force microscope, the scientists played around with the virus with a needle to see how it responded to various stimuli.

A virus usually becomes vulnerable after leaving the host. But, according to some studies, Sars-CoV-2 could stay on some everyday surfaces such as cupboards for several days.

How it managed to survive environmental disturbances remained unclear.

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The Hungarian team found the viral envelope barely gave any resistance as the needle tip landed on the surface. As the tip went further, the resisting force peaked and then quickly diminished to almost non-existent.
Their experimental data suggested Sars-Cov-2 could be the most physically elastic virus ever known to humans so far, and repeated deformation did not seem to affect the overall structure and the content inside the virus, either.

“Its mechanical and self-healing properties may ensure adaptation to a wide range of environmental circumstances,” said Kellermayer and colleagues.

Covid-19: our explanatory graphics collection
Chinese scientists estimated that Sars-CoV-2 had on its surface 26
spike proteins
that could bind with a host cell. Researchers at Cambridge University in Britain gave a similar estimate of 24. A study by researchers in the Max Planck Institute in Germany came up with a count of 40.

Kellermayer said there were 61 spikes on their specimen. This suggested the variability of the viral structure could be greater than thought, they said.


They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.
Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook on to a host cell, according to the researchers.

A study by French scientists in April
found that the virus could replicate in animal cells after being exposed to a temperature of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour. The massive outbreaks in some countries over the northern hemisphere summer also suggested that high temperature did not slow the spread of the pandemic as previously hoped.


Kellermayer and his colleagues heated the viral particle to 90 degrees for 10 minutes and found that “remarkably, their global appearance was only slightly altered”.
Some spikes had come off under the scorching heat, but the overall structure remained intact.


“The Sars-CoV-2 virion displays an unexpected global thermal stability, which is likely related to their aerosol and surface stabilities,” they said.
https://www.scmp.com/topics/coronavirus-china

 

[sinnergy]

Everything is fine we The Netherlands are in regions in the 2nd wave ! Here in my rural part we also have more infected than last week, hell than whole of the summer, but when they came back from vacation abroad it set things in motion. small clusters all over town. More worse than March.

The government is imposing new rules in the big cities only, if they don't we have more than 10k positives in about 3 weeks every day. And not enough icu spots.

Good going anti corona idiots! Party on! Party hard.