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[RaZoR No1]

I remember when just stay home for 2 weeks turned into a month and then 3 months. The danger when you allow people to take your ability to be free to leave your home is that then you are trusting that they know what they are doing and will give it back to you when they decide you are safe again.

If you don’t understand why people would be hesitant to submit themselves to others that way without asking questions, I would suggest you are a sheep. Not for doing what is asked, but for scolding people who don’t fall in line.

You aren’t at least concerned about giving up your autonomy this way? What happens when in a month, things are not better?

(I apologize upfront, if I misunderstood your post)
It is not about just being a sheep and blindly following the rules.
No country / industry or economy wants a lockdown? Germany is about to loose a huge ton of money and if this continues they could even lose their place in the economy. They will need years/decades to recover from this. Why do we have a lockdown? Because people cannot follow the most simple rules and help avoiding spreading the virus.

Nobody wants a lockdown, even me, but you cannot deny, that all of this is happening, due to the people who are not cooperating and following the rules.
Why do you need to go to a disco and party if there is a pandemic? People stay at home, too if they are sick or have a headache. Additionally why risk getting a deadly virus, even if it doesn't kill you, it could kill somebody you love/know (grandparents/parents etc.)

When in a month things do net get better, then I will know, that at least it is not my fault and that I know, that this was predictable due to all people who were not following the rules.
And honestly we are not just talking about rules like: stay 1,50m away or no more than 10 people etc.
You could achieve so much, if people just wear their masks! This alone would reduce the risk of getting infected by an huge amount. But everywhere you can see people not wearing any masks or leaving their nose free or there are even some bigger genius people, with the all open face-shield...


I don't like Merkel, but there was one sentence which I found very sad and showed me, how difficult it is for her to order a lockdown. She said something like:" she is from the DDR, so she knows how valuable freedom is. For her it is the worst thing to seize something she fought and longed for her life and now she has to tell the people to get in a lockdown.

As you can see, we have the lockdown thanks to the people who think that their FB or Whatsapp group knows better than professionals or doctors.

And honestly? In the end, even if this should be something like a hoax, it is still better wearing a mask than not wearing one and having a slight chance of getting infected.

I personally will continue the mask wearing even after the pandemic, because I always admired the Asian countries that they were so disciplined and always wore a mask, when they are sick. IMO something the West could adapt/learn too.

 

[RaZoR No1]

I've been staying at home for 7 months dude, at what point is enough enough. Give me a fucking break already. This thing isn't melting flesh off peoples' bones, for 98% of people, the worst case scenario is you feel sick for a week or two. For those who get really sick and have to go to the hospital, we have much better treatment options than we did 7 months ago. We can handle this.

Also, think about it, for months, we were told constantly that Americans were dumb brutes who couldn't follow rules which is why we had cases, unlike those enlightened Germans and Dutch. But now that the Germans and Dutch are getting hit with the cases... maybe the rules aren't as helpful as people think they are? Maybe there is more to this virus than wearing a shitty .0005 cent made in china mask can handle? Think about it.

The worst case scenario is death. Not getting sick or just not feeling well. It is death! The best case scenario is just getting sick and feeling not well, if you are infected or having not symptoms.

I am really sorry for you, that you are already staying at home for 7 months.

But IMO this can only be solved if the whole globe goes along with it.. There is no end, if everybody goes by the etiquette in just one country. Then virus is gone in one country, but in the other country it is still there and it will infect the other country again.

All in all it is a pretty s**tty situation.
I really hope, that the vaccines will ready asap and that we will be able to kill this virus off...

 

[Shrap]

I just went back and viewed the first few pages of this thread. What a trip. We were all speculating from afar about the virus and the CCP coverup. It feels like a decade ago but it was just the start of the year. They say the years get shorter as you age but this feels like the longest year I've lived.

Here's to leaving 2020 in the dust and 2021 (hopefully) being a lot better.

 

[diffusionx]

The worst case scenario is death. Not getting sick or just not feeling well. It is death! The best case scenario is just getting sick and feeling not well, if you are infected or having not symptoms.

I am really sorry for you, that you are already staying at home for 7 months.

But IMO this can only be solved if the whole globe goes along with it.. There is no end, if everybody goes by the etiquette in just one country. Then virus is gone in one country, but in the other country it is still there and it will infect the other country again.

All in all it is a pretty s**tty situation.
I really hope, that the vaccines will ready asap and that we will be able to kill this virus off...

The worst case scenario of you going out to buy groceries is death too. The worst case scenario of you is walking down the street is death.

We don't reorient our entire society around worst case scenarios because we cannot function if we do that.

 

[DeepBreath87]

(I apologize upfront, if I misunderstood your post)
It is not about just being a sheep and blindly following the rules.
No country / industry or economy wants a lockdown? Germany is about to loose a huge ton of money and if this continues they could even lose their place in the economy. They will need years/decades to recover from this. Why do we have a lockdown? Because people cannot follow the most simple rules and help avoiding spreading the virus.

Nobody wants a lockdown, even me, but you cannot deny, that all of this is happening, due to the people who are not cooperating and following the rules.
Why do you need to go to a disco and party if there is a pandemic? People stay at home, too if they are sick or have a headache. Additionally why risk getting a deadly virus, even if it doesn't kill you, it could kill somebody you love/know (grandparents/parents etc.)

When in a month things do net get better, then I will know, that at least it is not my fault and that I know, that this was predictable due to all people who were not following the rules.
And honestly we are not just talking about rules like: stay 1,50m away or no more than 10 people etc.
You could achieve so much, if people just wear their masks! This alone would reduce the risk of getting infected by an huge amount. But everywhere you can see people not wearing any masks or leaving their nose free or there are even some bigger genius people, with the all open face-shield...


I don't like Merkel, but there was one sentence which I found very sad and showed me, how difficult it is for her to order a lockdown. She said something like:" she is from the DDR, so she knows how valuable freedom is. For her it is the worst thing to seize something she fought and longed for her life and now she has to tell the people to get in a lockdown.

As you can see, we have the lockdown thanks to the people who think that their FB or Whatsapp group knows better than professionals or doctors.

And honestly? In the end, even if this should be something like a hoax, it is still better wearing a mask than not wearing one and having a slight chance of getting infected.

I personally will continue the mask wearing even after the pandemic, because I always admired the Asian countries that they were so disciplined and always wore a mask, when they are sick. IMO something the West could adapt/learn too.

You have the strange thinking where you believe that if the virus spreads, it MUST be because people aren’t following the rules. Even people following your rules are getting sick because your rules aren’t very effective. The masks are at best, a bit of a help slowing the spread. Wearing masks isn’t stopping the spread.

Everyone can’t stay home. You have the privileged fantasy where everyone can just lock down for a month while the virus burns itself out. If that were possible, I would support all this. But it’s not.

Let’s just think about all the pieces of society that need to keep running. Healthcare, obviously. Food services. Emergency services. Home repairs. Government services. Energy/utilities. And then the supply chains that support all that. That’s a huge number of people that still need to go to work. And then who watches their kids?

If you can stay home or work from home, that’s great. But many many jobs require in person work. There are jobs that have to get done or your comfy life sitting on your couch for a month isn’t possible. So those people are going to continue to spread the virus.

Also, a month is not nearly enough time. You’re looking at 10-14 days for most people from the point of infection. But when they stay home, they are going to give the virus to the people they live with. A vast majority of the transmission occurs in the home. So at the end of the month, maybe the rest of the family has cleared the virus. Maybe not.

Either way, as soon as you open, it all starts over again. You’re just delaying the inevitable.

 

[JORMBO]

I am thinking there will be another lockdown if Biden wins. I can see him saying Trump didn't do it right and we need a full 1+ month lockdown to "do it right". My town has only had like 5 covid deaths a month for the past few months and we still have tons of restrictions in place due to being a blue state. I can see another lockdown killing off a lot more of the businesses here that are struggling to make ends meet. This will be really bad if it happens. There was a line to get into one of the stores here again over the weekend. Everyone was stocking up on tiolet paper and meat.

 

[DeafTourette]

I've been staying at home for 7 months dude, at what point is enough enough. Give me a fucking break already. This thing isn't melting flesh off peoples' bones, for 98% of people, the worst case scenario is you feel sick for a week or two. For those who get really sick and have to go to the hospital, we have much better treatment options than we did 7 months ago. We can handle this.

Also, think about it, for months, we were told constantly that Americans were dumb brutes who couldn't follow rules which is why we had cases, unlike those enlightened Germans and Dutch. But now that the Germans and Dutch are getting hit with the cases... maybe the rules aren't as helpful as people think they are? Maybe there is more to this virus than wearing a shitty .0005 cent made in china mask can handle? Think about it.



LOL no it didn't.

A denier. Of course.

And America had been under all this BECAUSE of idiots who can't follow simple guidelines and look out for one another. Germany, UK, etc are locking down again because idiots thought everything was better after the initial lockdowns, all the while other idiots (or the same ones) thought they didn't have to still wear masks or socially distance ... Because there were idiots who denied everything about the virus...

I should have said "almost a quarter of a million" ... Because it's almost up to 250,000 ... But keep denying it.

Hey, do an experiment... Intentionally get COVID-19 and pass it on to your family since you seem like one of those herd immunity folks (which doesn't mean what you probably think it does) and see how well that goes for you since you don't believe anything.

 

[diffusionx]

I should have said "almost a quarter of a million" ... Because it's almost up to 250,000 ... But keep denying it.

Hey, do an experiment... Intentionally get COVID-19 and pass it on to your family since you seem like one of those herd immunity folks (which doesn't mean what you probably think it does) and see how well that goes for you since you don't believe anything.

It's not "almost a quarter of a million" either.

The numbers are pumped up because hospitals (which have no revenue because the government ordered them to stop treating non-COVID patients) are incentivized to pump them up. This is all fact, Deborah Birx laid out how they count COVID deaths months ago.

 

[RaZoR No1]

The worst case scenario of you going out to buy groceries is death too. The worst case scenario of you is walking down the street is death.

We don't reorient our entire society around worst case scenarios because we cannot function if we do that.

If we go by your examples, than it is save to cross all red light (why wait, you are faster crossing a red light) , run over a highway (maybe a shorter way to walk) etc. Just because the worst case is death and we don't form our society by these rules? As you can see we are going into circle. We both could come up with endless arguments.

The government is there to protect its society / state. Of course they orientated by these points, why do you think we have rules and laws? Just for the laugh? Do you think the politicians have nothing better to do to order a lockdown and enjoy the suffering of the people?
If it were just some politicians without any knowledge, I could agree to some extent, if these measure are correct. But at leat in Germany, the politicians are supported by professionals and doctors, who know their stuff.

You have the strange thinking where you believe that if the virus spreads, it MUST be because people aren’t following the rules. Even people following your rules are getting sick because your rules aren’t very effective. The masks are at best, a bit of a help slowing the spread. Wearing masks isn’t stopping the spread.

Everyone can’t stay home. You have the privileged fantasy where everyone can just lock down for a month while the virus burns itself out. If that were possible, I would support all this. But it’s not.

Let’s just think about all the pieces of society that need to keep running. Healthcare, obviously. Food services. Emergency services. Home repairs. Government services. Energy/utilities. And then the supply chains that support all that. That’s a huge number of people that still need to go to work. And then who watches their kids?

If you can stay home or work from home, that’s great. But many many jobs require in person work. There are jobs that have to get done or your comfy life sitting on your couch for a month isn’t possible. So those people are going to continue to spread the virus.

Also, a month is not nearly enough time. You’re looking at 10-14 days for most people from the point of infection. But when they stay home, they are going to give the virus to the people they live with. A vast majority of the transmission occurs in the home. So at the end of the month, maybe the rest of the family has cleared the virus. Maybe not.

Either way, as soon as you open, it all starts over again. You’re just delaying the inevitable.

So in your opinion, ignore everything and just live a normal live?
It is proven, that the virus transmits through aerosol / droplet infection (Tröpfcheninfektion), not through skin or something else. Best way to reduce infection? Reduce aerosol/droplets in the air? How? With masks!
Everybody knows, that the normal masks you can buy do not filter out everything and you need a better one. Unfortunately we do not have enough of the right masks, but still, it is better than running without masks.

Do you know why the government plays the time game?
This all will only end, if we have a vaccines or probably the whole world stands still for a month or another world wonder.
Otherwise the government has to manage the infection rate and has to keep it down. Why? Take Italy in Spring for example. If everybody at the same time is sick, then the health system is overloaded and then the situation gets dramatically worse! Overfilled hospitals, not enough equipment for the sick, losing doctors/personal due to the infection/exhausting times etc.
They try to avoid to at all costs.. Literally at all costs. Because than the real chaos starts and then it is not about "just go to the hospital" and " we can threat it here, because we have enough equipment etc."
Then it is just a matter of who can be saved and not.

Always keep in mind, why should a country should so dramatically measures, if it drastically harms its own economy.. Definitely not for fun..

 

[DeepBreath87]

A denier. Of course.

And America had been under all this BECAUSE of idiots who can't follow simple guidelines and look out for one another. Germany, UK, etc are locking down again because idiots thought everything was better after the initial lockdowns, all the while other idiots (or the same ones) thought they didn't have to still wear masks or socially distance ... Because there were idiots who denied everything about the virus...

I should have said "almost a quarter of a million" ... Because it's almost up to 250,000 ... But keep denying it.

Hey, do an experiment... Intentionally get COVID-19 and pass it on to your family since you seem like one of those herd immunity folks (which doesn't mean what you probably think it does) and see how well that goes for you since you don't believe anything.

Again, lots of people who “follow the rules” get sick because the rules don’t work that well. It just seems like you are under the delusion the rules prevent people from getting sick. But they don’t. Lockdowns do, sure. For a time. But masks, and distancing only slow things down. They don’t stop the spread.

 

[diffusionx]

If we go by your examples, than it is save to cross all red light (why wait, you are faster crossing a red light) , run over a highway (maybe a shorter way to walk) etc. Just because the worst case is death and we don't form our society by these rules? As you can see we are going into circle. We both could come up with endless arguments.

The government is there to protect its society / state. Of course they orientated by these points, why do you think we have rules and laws? Just for the laugh? Do you think the politicians have nothing better to do to order a lockdown and enjoy the suffering of the people?
If it were just some politicians without any knowledge, I could agree to some extent, if these measure are correct. But at leat in Germany, the politicians are supported by professionals and doctors, who know their stuff.

There's a reason they are called "accidents" man. It is because shit happens. The point is, we don't go out scared that we are going to get hit by someone running a red light, although it can happen. Likewise, again, COVID just ain't that deadly or dangerous. It's just not. A very small amount of people die - extremely old, mostly sick and frail. The average age of COVID deaths is 78, while the average life expectancy in the USA is... 78. And a disease that kills old people more frequently than young people is not exactly unheard of. In fact, it's basically the story of every disease.

So what the fuck are we doing here. We need to look at the risk in a real way, not a scared hysterical way of OMG U MIGHT DIE DESTROY SOCIETY BECAUSE U MIGHT DIE. This is just such an insane way of looking at this virus that I cannot believe it. My aunt died of pneumonia last year and nobody would seriously say that we need to shut down society because pneumonia is deadly (even though it objectively is) and whoever spread it to my aunt did something horrible. It's just how it goes.

 

[DeepBreath87]

If we go by your examples, than it is save to cross all red light (why wait, you are faster crossing a red light) , run over a highway (maybe a shorter way to walk) etc. Just because the worst case is death and we don't form our society by these rules? As you can see we are going into circle. We both could come up with endless arguments.

The government is there to protect its society / state. Of course they orientated by these points, why do you think we have rules and laws? Just for the laugh? Do you think the politicians have nothing better to do to order a lockdown and enjoy the suffering of the people?
If it were just some politicians without any knowledge, I could agree to some extent, if these measure are correct. But at leat in Germany, the politicians are supported by professionals and doctors, who know their stuff.



So in your opinion, ignore everything and just live a normal live?
It is proven, that the virus transmits through aerosol / droplet infection (Tröpfcheninfektion), not through skin or something else. Best way to reduce infection? Reduce aerosol/droplets in the air? How? With masks!
Everybody knows, that the normal masks you can buy do not filter out everything and you need a better one. Unfortunately we do not have enough of the right masks, but still, it is better than running without masks.

Do you know why the government plays the time game?
This all will only end, if we have a vaccines or probably the whole world stands still for a month or another world wonder.
Otherwise the government has to manage the infection rate and has to keep it down. Why? Take Italy in Spring for example. If everybody at the same time is sick, then the health system is overloaded and then the situation gets dramatically worse! Overfilled hospitals, not enough equipment for the sick, losing doctors/personal due to the infection/exhausting times etc.
They try to avoid to at all costs.. Literally at all costs. Because than the real chaos starts and then it is not about "just go to the hospital" and " we can threat it here, because we have enough equipment etc."
Then it is just a matter of who can be saved and not.

Always keep in mind, why should a country should so dramatically measures, if it drastically harms its own economy.. Definitely not for fun..

I’m not saying we act like the virus doesn’t exist or that we just take our masks off and have orgies in the street. But I’m also completely opposed to lockdowns. Absolutely opposed. The only time they are remotely reasonable is when all an areas hospitals have exhausted every other option and are still overrun. Then a lockdown is required because people will die from not receiving care.

Maybe that’s where all these other countries are. Maybe not. It’s not where we are in my part of the US. Using a lockdown to stop people from getting sick removes their autonomy. I’m 100% against that unless it’s an absolute disaster.

I’ve said this 1 million times. People who are afraid to get sick should be staying home. People who are high risk should be staying home. I’m ok with wearing a mask for now if it makes people feel better. I do it for others more than for myself. But I am not for removing all ability to do business and leave home. I don’t believe it is in any way an effective long term solution. As a temporary response to absolute devastation, perhaps. But as someone who has had quite a bit of firsthand experience with people sick with this, I can tell you it’s not absolute devastation almost anywhere right now.

 

[RaZoR No1]

There's a reason they are called "accidents" man. It is because shit happens. The point is, we don't go out scared that we are going to get hit by someone running a red light, although it can happen. Likewise, again, COVID just ain't that deadly or dangerous. It's just not. A very small amount of people die - extremely old, mostly sick and frail. The average age of COVID deaths is 78, while the average life expectancy in the USA is... 78. And a disease that kills old people more frequently than young people is not exactly unheard of. In fact, it's basically the story of every disease.

So what the fuck are we doing here. We need to look at the risk in a real way, not a scared hysterical way of OMG U MIGHT DIE DESTROY SOCIETY BECAUSE U MIGHT DIE. This is just such an insane way of looking at this virus that I cannot believe it. My aunt died of pneumonia last year and nobody would seriously say that we need to shut down society because pneumonia is deadly (even though it objectively is) and whoever spread it to my aunt did something horrible. It's just how it goes.

First of all,
My condolences..

I’m not saying we act like the virus doesn’t exist or that we just take our masks off and have orgies in the street. But I’m also completely opposed to lockdowns. Absolutely opposed. The only time they are remotely reasonable is when all an areas hospitals have exhausted every other option and are still overrun. Then a lockdown is required because people will die from not receiving care.

Maybe that’s where all these other countries are. Maybe not. It’s not where we are in my part of the US. Using a lockdown to stop people from getting sick removes their autonomy. I’m 100% against that unless it’s an absolute disaster.

I’ve said this 1 million times. People who are afraid to get sick should be staying home. People who are high risk should be staying home. I’m ok with wearing a mask for now if it makes people feel better. I do it for others more than for myself. But I am not for removing all ability to do business and leave home. I don’t believe it is in any way an effective long term solution. As a temporary response to absolute detestation, perhaps.

I completely understand your side and I am not really in favor of a lockdown, too. In the end we all have to live with economy damages after the pandemic. But it is their last way of managing the pandemic, because the more softer rules like the masks etc. Did not help enough and/were not followed by the society.
And I am not talking about people like you and me, who probably go shopping with masks etc.
I am talking about the people who protest without masks and think all of this is a hoax.

Ordering a lockdown, when the health system is collapsing is already too late...
You cannot try to extinguish the house, when it is already brunt down..

 

[DeepBreath87]

First of all,
My condolences..


I completely understand your side and I am not really in favor of a lockdown, too. In the end we all have to live with economy damages after the pandemic. But it is their last way of managing the pandemic, because the more softer rules like the masks etc. Did not help enough and/were not followed by the society.
And I am not talking about people like you and me, who probably go shopping with masks etc.
I am talking about the people who protest without masks and think all of this is a hoax.

Ordering a lockdown, when the health system is collapsing is already too late...
You cannot try to extinguish the house, when it is already brunt down..

I guess I would have a lot more faith if the initial lockdown in my part of the US wasn’t such bullshit. It went on for 3 months and during that time, the hospital I work at has never been so empty. We stopped doing surgery and providing other life supporting services, and for what? We had about 15-20 people at that time. Sure, the 15 days to slow the spread was maybe needed because we didn’t know what was coming. But then it kept going and going. Even as it became clear the “surge” the kept predicting wasn’t coming in April or May or June. And yet the stay at home order kept going for 3 months.

It’s worse now. We have 40-50 cases most of the time in the hospital, but we can manage. I just do not trust their predictions or decision making. I think they pretend to know the future but they don’t. They never acknowledge when they make mistakes. Everything gets blamed on “noncompliance”. It must be nice to scapegoat all the consequences or bad policy onto the people who won’t follow the bad policy.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

This thread is Gold, its the only thread I have followed ever since the start. Its quite funny to see how peoples opinions and predictions changed so much and how this disaster progressed.

Yesterday the 1st person died where I live, a 97 y/o.

 

[diffusionx]

I guess I would have a lot more faith if the initial lockdown in my part of the US wasn’t such bullshit. It went on for 3 months and during that time, the hospital I work at has never been so empty. We stopped doing surgery and providing other life supporting services, and for what? We had about 15-20 people at that time. Sure, the 15 days to slow the spread was maybe needed because we didn’t know what was coming. But then it kept going and going. Even as it became clear the “surge” the kept predicting wasn’t coming in April or May or June. And yet the stay at home order kept going for 3 months.

It’s worse now. We have 40-50 cases most of the time in the hospital, but we can manage. I just do not trust their predictions or decision making. I think they pretend to know the future but they don’t. They never acknowledge when they make mistakes. Everything gets blamed on “noncompliance”. It must be nice to scapegoat all the consequences or bad policy onto the people who won’t follow the bad policy.

We saw hospitals literally lay off staff and go out of business because they didn't have patients. In the middle of a supposed global, worldwide pandemic that required never before seen measures. Even in New York, the epicenter of the crisis, the news was using fake video footage to portray the "collapsed health system" while all the extra capacity built up went unused.

So if you live in an area that locked down, you lost your job, you can't feed your kids, your entire town has collapsed into economic ruin, all the while your local hospital stayed empty and the nurses made tiktok videos instead of treating anyone, wouldn't you be skeptical when the same crooks are out there talking about how we need to do it again?

 

[Chaplain]

Professor of Medicine at Stanford University "Dr Jay Bhattacharya tells Andrew Neil about the creative alternatives to lockdown. He says the policy creates mental health problems and multigenerational households, and discourages people from going to hospitals." (10/31/20)

 

[DeepBreath87]

We saw hospitals literally lay off staff and go out of business because they didn't have patients. In the middle of a supposed global, worldwide pandemic that required never before seen measures. Even in New York, the epicenter of the crisis, the news was using fake video footage to portray the "collapsed health system" while all the extra capacity built up went unused.

So if you live in an area that locked down, you lost your job, you can't feed your kids, your entire town has collapsed into economic ruin, all the while your local hospital stayed empty and the nurses made tiktok videos instead of treating anyone, wouldn't you be skeptical when the same crooks are out there talking about how we need to do it again?

What bothers me most is the people get angry when you question whether the people in charge actually know what they’re about. Anytime more people get sick, it gets chalked up to those deniers and noncompliant people.

The baseline assumption is that the rules work, so people get sick must be a result of not following the rules. But what if the rules don’t fucking work? What if masks and six feet and all this stuff works to slow the spread a little, but the end result is, people still get sick? Then what?

I think people have to latch on to the idea that the people in charge know what they are doing. They love the idea that there is an authority the can submit to that will keep them safe. It’s the same impulse that makes strongman dictators appealing. That way they don’t have to make any decisions and can feel safe.

 

[cryptoadam]

Lockdowns have become so normalized and fearmongering propaganda so strong people forget the original deal, SLOW THE SPREAD AND FLATTEN THE CURVE. It was not about no one ever dying again in history, it was to stop hospitals from being overloaded.

Mission accomplished. No one was talking about lockdowns until no one dies. All we were supposed to do was flatten the curve which still meant there would be cases and deaths, but hospitals wouldn't get overloaded.

Its hilarious because if you go back at the begining of this thread people were horrified with what China was doing. It was shocking. Now looking back Wuhan didn't do anything that the west isn't doing now. The world has normalized Chinas tactics where there are people actually begging for it.

To think 1 year ago if you told people Trump would take full control of your life, tell you where you can work, eat, leave your house, what you have to wear, arrest you for any reason most people would be horrified and call it Nazi Germany fascism etc.... Now people are complaining that the government doesn't control and micro manage their lives enough.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

The issue is when you issue lockdown when hospital is over run, it is too late. Things get out of hand quickly if icu is 75% like at Utah.

 

[Chittagong]

Starmer slams Johnson for ignoring scientists' lockdown call for WEEKS

In a statement to the Commons, the PM insisted cases were surging so high that there was 'no alternative' to the month-long blanket restrictions across England.

www.dailymail.co.uk

UK records FEWEST daily infections for a fortnight on the day Boris Johnson tries to persuade parliament we need another lockdown - as Keir Starmer roasts him for 'ignoring' scientists' advice for 40 days

FFS Boris

 

[DeepBreath87]

The issue is when you issue lockdown when hospital is over run, it is too late. Things get out of hand quickly if icu is 75% like at Utah.

Utah has less than 10 people dying per day right now. Less than 10. Closer to 5 actually. I get that they are having a spike in hospitalizations and I am not trying to minimize that. But they are not overrun.

 

[diffusionx]

The positive % has become a big scam too. It is of course totally dependent on the context with which the tests are being done.

The issue is when you issue lockdown when hospital is over run, it is too late. Things get out of hand quickly if icu is 75% like at Utah.

ICUs get used for many things. ICUs in NYC are at 80% on a normal day, for example. I get that Utah is not NYC, but still this "hospital collapse" thing is a meme.

 

[cryptoadam]

 

[diffusionx]

Apparently that "4000 deaths per day" thing was already revised down as they presented this.

Forecast of 4,000 deaths per day 'could be FIVE TIMES too high'

Oxford University's Professor Carl Heneghan said the worst-case scenario was based on old data that hinged on the situation now being four to five times worse than it actually is.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now in this thread somebody recently posted, "why would the government want lockdown, it means less money, bad economy, etc." Well you fucking tell me? Because nobody makes a mistake like this accidentally. The only way these garbage hysterical numbers keep getting bandied about is because people want lockdown.

 

[diffusionx]

An objective read of the situation clearly shows that the US and Europe did not differ drastically in their approach in any way shape or form. In some ways the US was even harsher and longer (e.g. schools opened in France in the spring IIRC), we just had to deal with nationwide riots and the local governments that sanctioned them, while Trump supporters got blamed for the predictable increase in cases that came after. Now we are seeing rises in cases in places that didn't get George Floyd riots or the early spread, this too will pass and we will be fine.

I don't see CNN making tons of posts about the failure of Merkel or Marcon recently, why is that? Even after writing yass queen slay nonsense gloating about the brilliant way Europe destroyed the virus in the summer, like this.

Angela Merkel knows how to insert a dagger | CNN

Trump, as well as Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro and Russia’s Vladimir Putin, must have felt his ears burning when the German Chancellor demolished their approaches to the coronavirus in a speech Thursday. “As we are experiencing firsthand, you cannot fight the pandemic with lies and disinformation any...

www.cnn.com

 

[DeepBreath87]

Apparently that "4000 deaths per day" thing was already revised down as they presented this.

Forecast of 4,000 deaths per day 'could be FIVE TIMES too high'

Oxford University's Professor Carl Heneghan said the worst-case scenario was based on old data that hinged on the situation now being four to five times worse than it actually is.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now in this thread somebody recently posted, "why would the government want lockdown, it means less money, bad economy, etc." Well you fucking tell me? Because nobody makes a mistake like this accidentally. The only way these garbage hysterical numbers keep getting bandied about is because people want lockdown.

People are just completely oblivious when they say shit like that.
“Why would the government send young men to die in wars for nothing”.
“Why would the Soviet Union starve all those Ukrainians?”
“Why would Germany kill all the Jews?”
“Why would China put all the Uighurs in concentration camps?”
There are endless examples of governments doing heinous shit to their citizens.

And then of course, the response is “my government isn’t like those other governments. They’re looking out for me. Just keeping us safe.” Well all the people under these other regimes thought the same kinds of things. And I’ll bet the people working in those governments all think they’re keeping people safe. No one thinks their a terrible person doing terrible things. There’s always a good intentions behind some of the worst shit imaginable.

And I’m not comparing these lockdowns to concentration camps. But I am saying you should never surrender your freedom unless you REALLY REALLY trust the people in charge. And I don’t. I don’t think they want to hurt anyone. I just don’t think they really know what they are doing. At all. They’ve done pretty much nothing to give me confidence they do.

 

[Joe T.]

Professor of Medicine at Stanford University "Dr Jay Bhattacharya tells Andrew Neil about the creative alternatives to lockdown. He says the policy creates mental health problems and multigenerational households, and discourages people from going to hospitals." (10/31/20)

He was also part of a 27 min interview recently for anyone interested, part of a story on the Great Barrington Declaration.

‘Great Barrington Declaration’ sparks debate about lockdown costs, benefits

A group of more than 40 epidemiologists and public health scientists from around the world say they reject closing economies to slow the spread of COVID-19.

www.newsnationnow.com

Since their declaration about 40,000 doctors and scientists have signed in support

“Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results – to name a few – include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health.

Dr. Martin Kulldorff: "I have defended the Swedish government's approach to keeping the schools open and Sweden has a socialist government. I've defended the Republican governors of South Dakota and Florida who also wanted to open schools. So I guess, depending on where and when, either I'm a raving socialist or I'm a right wing fanatic which is kind of strange and curious."

It's always refreshing to hear different points of view, these two coming from Stanford and Harvard, because that's become forbidden up here in Canada. A respected Montreal doctor was pressured into apologizing for saying this virus "isn't much more dangerous than the seasonal flu" on CTV News - he doubled down instead but was (sort of) let off the hook, probably because this came with his "clarification":

“One major benefit has emerged from this incident: It has given me an opportunity to remind the public how important it is for every person—especially those at high risk—to be vaccinated against the seasonal flu. Contracting both the flu and COVID-19 could be devastating, which represents one more reason for wearing masks, social distancing and washing our hands regularly.”

 

[TheContact]

Well, my state is starting more covid restrictions. Stricter mask mandate (thankfully), but certain businesses have to change their operating hours. It's not too crazy (have to close at 930 the latest, open at 5 the earliest). He's not touching schools because he doesn't find any evidence linking schools to being spreading events, but this is scary because if it gets worse he could start another lockdown.

Baker-Polito Administration Announces Targeted Measures To Curb Rising COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations

Early Business Closures, Revised Gatherings, Mask Orders Announced to Disrupt Growth of COVID-19 Cases

www.mass.gov

 

[prag16]

Indeed. Here in the states, people think they're immune if they had a low viral load once... But no one is immune from the cold or the flu after they've had it. I just don't get the thinking. The virus (all viruses) mutate. You CAN get it again! It can be WORSE next time.

The flu kills 60,000+ per year... And that's WITH a yearly vaccine.

COVID-19 has killed a quarter of a million in LESS than a year... And folks still playing politics with it.

The vaccine is going to be almost useless if this turns out to be the case, and reinfections end up being rampant over short-ish time periods. Best case it'll be like the flu shot, which doesn't accomplish a whole lot. We're going to have to learn to live with this virus. We can't be in a constant state of panic like this indefinitely.

 

[cryptoadam]

An objective read of the situation clearly shows that the US and Europe did not differ drastically in their approach in any way shape or form. In some ways the US was even harsher and longer (e.g. schools opened in France in the spring IIRC), we just had to deal with nationwide riots and the local governments that sanctioned them, while Trump supporters got blamed for the predictable increase in cases that came after. Now we are seeing rises in cases in places that didn't get George Floyd riots or the early spread, this too will pass and we will be fine.

I don't see CNN making tons of posts about the failure of Merkel or Marcon recently, why is that? Even after writing yass queen slay nonsense gloating about the brilliant way Europe destroyed the virus in the summer, like this.

Angela Merkel knows how to insert a dagger | CNN

Trump, as well as Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro and Russia’s Vladimir Putin, must have felt his ears burning when the German Chancellor demolished their approaches to the coronavirus in a speech Thursday. “As we are experiencing firsthand, you cannot fight the pandemic with lies and disinformation any...

www.cnn.com

Of course they wont, and everyone will just fall back to SK and holding them up.

I don't even see how you can blame Trump when each state is responsible for what happens. I don't blame Trudeau for what happened in Quebec because our provincial leaderhsip like in the states was pretty independant and not taking orders from JT.

 

[arkhamguy123]

You guys see the one about the vaccine merely downplaying symptoms and not actually stopping infections? Don't know why thats not bigger news thats huge. Changes everything in a bad way. So it does literally zero to stop the spread? Or would people not be able to spread it with mild symptoms? I don't know guys seemed like terrible news. I mean thats literally the definition of a vaccine isn't it? To stop infection? Out of all 4 or 5 that are really close right now not one will actually prevent spread? Cmon

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Trump wants to fire Dr. Fuchi

 

[carlosrox]

Someone remind me of the survival rate of this thing.

 

[silentsod]

Someone remind me of the survival rate of this thing.

No one gets out alive.


Oh, Coronavirus? Just going by media reporting I think it's like a 50% fatality rate for anyone over the age of 19.

 

[Shrap]

Has anyone looked at the graphs for China recently? It's the funniest shit ever. Check this out:

They haven't had a single death in 6 months - Every single case has recovered despite there being a few thousand "official" cases reported over that period.

How about that skyscraper of deaths in mid April! Oh and best of all the total deaths graph even looks like a handgun.

 

[JimmyRustler]

From this day one we have to wear masks in the company every time we leave our desk.... Damn, so every time I go to the printer to pick up some files I have to put on the mask.... This shit is getting riddiculus...

 

[mcz117chief]

How about that skyscraper of deaths in mid April! Oh and best of all the total deaths graph even looks like a handgun.

The gun graph is absolutely amazing and so appropriate at the same time it is almost scary

 

[Chittagong]

Lockdown: Whitty and Vallance stand by '4,000 deaths a day' dossier

The chief scientific and medical officers made the comments today as they were hauled before MPs to defend SAGE's modelling. The group predicted 4,000 Covid-19 deaths a day in the UK by December.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Shocking news

 

[Jezbollah]

Lockdown: Whitty and Vallance stand by '4,000 deaths a day' dossier

The chief scientific and medical officers made the comments today as they were hauled before MPs to defend SAGE's modelling. The group predicted 4,000 Covid-19 deaths a day in the UK by December.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Shocking news

The lockdown has been sold less on actual data, and more on the fact the politicians don't want to be seen to be cancelling Christmas.

Because people care more about Christmas than they do this virus.

 

[LaughingStock]

Something i don't understand about lockdowns. Let's assume the lockdown is successful and the virus is eradicated in X country. But if it's still at large in other countries won't it spread all over again?
Unless you can lockdown the whole world i don't see the point.

 

[Chittagong]

Edit: oops, double post

 

[Porcelain Veins]

Something i don't understand about lockdowns. Let's assume the lockdown is successful and the virus is eradicated in X country. But if it's still at large in other countries won't it spread all over again?
Unless you can lockdown the whole world i don't see the point.

for sure. the idea would be to slow it down a bit, and have the hospitals not completely overrun, if we get to that point again, not really to think we will get rid of it forever.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Chittagong]

I don’t think we have ever got to 630PM without the day’s UK data like today. Could it be that infections have dropped again and the house lockdown vote tomorrow is in chaos? Or have they used Excel 2001 again and messed up the data? Stay tuned.

UK Summary | Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK

Official Coronavirus (COVID-19) disease situation dashboard with latest data in the UK.

coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk

 

[Jezbollah]

I just spoke to my sister - her husband is a store manager at a major British supermarket chain.

Their head office have advised them they believe that the lockdown implemented this week will go on through until the second week of January.

I know the "plan for the worst, hope for the best" strategy is sound, but fucking yikes at that..

 

[diffusionx]

Hello, Based department?

Kourtney Kardashian spreads COVID-19 mask conspiracy on Instagram

Paging Dr. Kardashian.

nypost.com

 

[Chittagong]

I don’t think we have ever got to 630PM without the day’s UK data like today. Could it be that infections have dropped again and the house lockdown vote tomorrow is in chaos? Or have they used Excel 2001 again and messed up the data? Stay tuned.

UK Summary | Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK

Official Coronavirus (COVID-19) disease situation dashboard with latest data in the UK.

coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk

shocking news:

UK records 12.5% FEWER coronavirus cases than last Tuesday

A further 20,018 have tested positive for the coronavirus today, bringing the total number of confirmed cases during the pandemic to 1,073,882.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Hello, Based department?

Kourtney Kardashian spreads COVID-19 mask conspiracy on Instagram

Paging Dr. Kardashian.

nypost.com

Cringe.

 

[Chaplain]