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[sol_bad]

Australia had a massive peak during its flu season, which is what Europe and the US are experiencing right now.

So easy for you to say Australia has "almost eradicated" it during your off-season.

The fact of the matter Victoria had the harshest lockdowns, and it didn't do jack. And it's not because people didn't follow the rules, it's because Lockdowns do not work. It's sad people still believe the propaganda.

Hmmmmmm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Victoria went into stage 4 lock down in early August.

Victoria announces stage four coronavirus lockdown restrictions including overnight curfew

Premier Daniel Andrews has announced tougher rules, including a limit of travelling 5km for shopping and exercise, in an attempt to contain rising community transmission

www.google.com

And ...... cases started dropping down after that. Look at the drop after the 6th of August.

victoria covid19 cases - Google Search

 

[p_xavier]

It seems clear that the goal will be to just shame people who are not willing to get the vaccine or who question "science".

My understanding is that the vaccine will be an "RNA vaccine" and as of now a vaccine of this type has NEVER been approved for human use.
Of course it's very difficult to find clear information since the mainstream media is a bit sketchy on the details.
"You don't trust science? LOL!"

Of course because scientists have never ever ever gotten anything wrong.
Go Science!
*Googles "Thalidomide"*
Oh.

People need to get away from this notion that because something is described as "science" it is somehow infallible.
The Scientific Method is a very reliable approach to evidence and proof etc but scientists are not always right and don't always agree with each other.

Ach, what am I saying. Inject the completely experimental vaccine into your arm you stupid dumb dumb idiots who don't believe in science.
I bet you also think the world is flat?

That's what is crazy about it. Science to find evidence and contradictions, hence the scientific process. Listening to "science" is the opposite of the scientific process. Science is about challenging our concepts continuously.

 

[Aarbron]

Hmmmmmm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Victoria went into stage 4 lock down in early August.

Victoria announces stage four coronavirus lockdown restrictions including overnight curfew

Premier Daniel Andrews has announced tougher rules, including a limit of travelling 5km for shopping and exercise, in an attempt to contain rising community transmission

www.google.com

And ...... cases started dropping down after that. Look at the drop after the 6th of August.

victoria covid19 cases - Google Search

Cases dropped in other Australian states too without a lockdown.

How do we explain NSW keeping a lid on cases without stage 4 lockdown?

 

[hariseldon]

It seems clear that the goal will be to just shame people who are not willing to get the vaccine or who question "science".

My understanding is that the vaccine will be an "RNA vaccine" and as of now a vaccine of this type has NEVER been approved for human use.
Of course it's very difficult to find clear information since the mainstream media is a bit sketchy on the details.
"You don't trust science? LOL!"

Of course because scientists have never ever ever gotten anything wrong.
Go Science!
*Googles "Thalidomide"*
Oh.

People need to get away from this notion that because something is described as "science" it is somehow infallible.
The Scientific Method is a very reliable approach to evidence and proof etc but scientists are not always right and don't always agree with each other.

Ach, what am I saying. Inject the completely experimental vaccine into your arm you stupid dumb dumb idiots who don't believe in science.
I bet you also think the world is flat?

Worse than that, they’re not following scientific method. No peer review, demonising anyone who dissents within the scientific community to shut down debate (which is the very lifeblood of good decision making), etc. We’ve strayed a long way from science.

 

[sol_bad]

Cases dropped in other Australian states too without a lockdown.

How do we explain NSW keeping a lid on cases without stage 4 lockdown?

Victoria is pretty much the reason for those massive spikes in July/August. Yeah, there were more cases in other states but the huge majority were in Victoria. The numbers rose shockingly fast in that state causing the stage 4 lock down, then once the lock down was in effect the numbers dropped right back down.

 

[Saruhashi]

Worse than that, they’re not following scientific method. No peer review, demonising anyone who dissents within the scientific community to shut down debate (which is the very lifeblood of good decision making), etc. We’ve strayed a long way from science.

I think its counter productive in the end. Look at Flat Earth as an example.

We could just leave Flat Earthers alone to their silly theories and conspiracies, hoping that individuals in the community will eventually get bored and move on and the community will not grow very much.

Instead we drag them out once in a while for a public dressing down. "LOL look how dumb these idiots are, not like us very very smart people".

So it makes the scientific community look like a bunch of smug, arrogant, twats who think they are better than everyone else. I think it could then be quite satisfying to just troll the absolute shit out of them.

Personally, I'd much rather see a professional and informative presentation on the details of virus spread and how to prevent it. Not some smug bitch snarkily saying what is essentially "nah nah you people are too dumb to know why masks work, I just love science."

Why aren't you wearing your mask then smart arse?
"Oh well you see sometimes you don't have to wear a mask but people are too dumb to wear masks but sometimes when you don't wear a mask it's actually because you are very very smart because of science".

 

[Saruhashi]

That's what is crazy about it. Science to find evidence and contradictions, hence the scientific process. Listening to "science" is the opposite of the scientific process. Science is about challenging our concepts continuously.

Exactly.

The prevalence of phrases like "science denier" is troubling because it assumes that once "science" gives you a finding, conclusion or theory then it's just set in stone and not ever up for debate.

Stephen Hawking, for me, was a once in a generation human being. Possibly even a literal one of a kind for our entire species. Even so, he got things wrong sometimes.

Shit, scientists often have bets and challenges between each other over who is right and who is wrong about something.

These fucking goofs on social media are like "I fucking love science" but in reality they are performing this bizarre kind of gloating. It's weird.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Exactly.

The prevalence of phrases like "science denier" is troubling because it assumes that once "science" gives you a finding, conclusion or theory then it's just set in stone and not ever up for debate.

Stephen Hawking, for me, was a once in a generation human being. Possibly even a literal one of a kind for our entire species. Even so, he got things wrong sometimes.

Shit, scientists often have bets and challenges between each other over who is right and who is wrong about something.

These fucking goofs on social media are like "I fucking love science" but in reality they are performing this bizarre kind of gloating. It's weird.

It’s religion. Plain and simple. They’re putting faith in a “god”, which is what they have perverted science into. Surprisingly, their science god just happens to confirm all their preconceived notions about what is right and wrong.

The “scientists” that preach the right ideas are their priests.

People that question or don’t believe are deniers much like religious “nonbelievers”.

Scientists that dissent from the orthodoxy are heretics to be shunned and silenced.

It’s secular religion. Clearly

 

[Chaplain]

 

[sinnergy]

Like I said , better is to accept , your way of living has changed for the coming future , and obey the rules as close as you can so that Iife is manageable.

 

[diffusionx]

Like I said , better is to accept , your way of living has changed for the coming future , and obey the rules as close as you can so that Iife is manageable.

"just accept the boot stamping on your face forever"

 

[sinnergy]

What do we do about the poverty, loss of family businesses, product shortages, and hunger?

Work? Start something new ?

 

[arkhamguy123]

Like I said , better is to accept , your way of living has changed for the coming future , and obey the rules as close as you can so that Iife is manageable.

Agreed. However I don't think the "it'll be this way into 2022" will age well at all. Vaccine or no vaccine thats a laughable assertion. People don't even care now. And I'm not an anti masker anti lockdown guy. I just understand human nature and virology. There is zero chance people are putting up with this into 2022. And I'd bet money the cases won't be anywhere near as high as this winter peak will hit in 2022. There's a finite amount of people to infect. Experts need a reality check on that one. Hell even Fauci is saying the finish line is close with the vaccine breakthroughs.

 

[sinnergy]

"just accept the boot stamping on your face forever"

That’s what you make of it for the coming years it will be . Who knows after a couple ..

 

[arkhamguy123]

That’s what you make of it for the coming years it will be . Who knows after a couple ..

Coming years zero chance. I don't exactly agree with diffusionx's post here at lot of the times but I can tell you now he will likely have the last laugh on this one.

 

[sinnergy]

Agreed. However I don't think the "it'll be this way into 2022" will age well at all. Vaccine or no vaccine thats a laughable assertion. People don't even care now. And I'm not an anti masker anti lockdown guy. I just understand human nature and virology. There is zero chance people are putting up with this into 2022. Experts need a reality check on that one. Hell even Fauci is saying the finish line is close with the vaccine breakthroughs.

It’s a preparing people emotionally and mentally... you can’t drop a f bomb ... so it goes step by step until you are accepting ...

And people need hope to keep going , working , caring ...

But this Shit will take years .

 

[diffusionx]

That’s what you make of it for the coming years it will be . Who knows after a couple ..

I mean, how else do you comprehend it, when the government sits there and dictates everything we can and can't do.

Like, if you want to argue that it is necessary to do all this, to not stop a virus with a 99.98% survival rate for everybody and about 99.999% for people under 50, where 50% of cases are asymptomatic - ok, make that argument. But it still doesn't change that the government has just utterly steamrolled its citizens and made a power grab unlike any in history, literally.

Not to mention what the hell is stopping the government from doing this whenever the next mild flu comes around. Because if the government can do all this for a virus with a 99.99999% survival rate, it can do it for anything! Where does it end?

 

[sinnergy]

Coming years zero chance. I don't exactly agree with diffusionx's post here at lot of the times but I can tell you now he will likely have the last laugh on this one.

We will see ...

 

[arkhamguy123]

It’s a preparing people emotionally and mentally... you can’t drop a f bomb ... so it goes step by step until you are accepting ...

And people need hope to keep going , working , caring ...

But this Shit will take years .

No offense friend but with how you worded that it was a little confusing and I don't quite get your meaning fully but if its what I think you're trying to say I'd implore you to google the Spanish flu.

 

[sinnergy]

I mean, how else do you comprehend it, when the government sits there and dictates everything we can and can't do.

Like, if you want to argue that it is necessary to do all this, to not stop a virus with a 99.98% survival rate for everybody and about 99.999% for people under 50, where 50% of cases are asymptomatic - ok, make that argument. But it still doesn't change that the government has just utterly steamrolled its citizens and made a power grab unlike any in history, literally.

Not to mention what the hell is stopping the government from doing this whenever the next mild flu comes around.

And why is that? But you are going in circles ...

Why didn’t they do it before COVID?

 

[sinnergy]

No offense friend but with how you worded that it was a little confusing and I don't quite get your meaning fully but if its what I think you're trying to say I'd implore you to google the Spanish flu.

I read it all , even before COVID ... I have a interest in these things , plague etc

Spanish flu took 2 years globally.. so yeah years.

and killed 60 million ww.

on top of that , we have Spanish flu in labs, it was frozen in perma frost . Fucking idiots .

 

[12Goblins]

No hospitals use the rapid antigen test as a definitive diagnosis because of this. The PCR test is the golden standard.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I read it all , even before COVID ... I have a interest in these things , plague etc

Spanish flu took 2 years globally.. so yeah years.

mand killed 60 million ww.

on top of that , we have Spanish flu in labs, it was frozen in perma frost .

2 years globally. We're one year into COVID 19. Do the math. You're speaking like the outbreak was last week. I don't know if you're just trying to rile up diffusionx or something but it just seems silly to me to say things will not be normal for years to come.

 

[diffusionx]

And why is that? But you are going in circles ...

Why didn’t they do it before COVID?

Even if you go back to the beginning of this, in January and February, there was still a widespread belief that the government cannot and should not do all these things. Then they just did it after China sent out a few videos of people welding doors shut and nurses dropping dead or whatever (hmm how many young people have dropped dead in the west like that?), and nobnody stopped them, and now they still are doing it.

I mean, you're not from the US, but after 9/11, the government seized all these powers that everybody on 9/10 would have agreed it does not have. Yet they seized it, and 20 years later, they still have those powers. That's kind of the way that this stuff works.

I read it all , even before COVID ... I have a interest in these things , plague etc

Spanish flu took 2 years globally.. so yeah years.

mand killed 60 million ww.

on top of that , we have Spanish flu in labs, it was frozen in perma frost .

COVID is objectively not nearly as deadly, in any way, as the spanish flu. Spanish flu killed millions of young people, while COVID just does not do that. I know you'll just ignore this and troll but I've been 100% cosnistent on this from the beginning. If COVID was killing 25 year olds the way the Spanish Flu was, I would be way more amendable to extreme countermeasures (and the government put restrictions in now it didn't for an objectively far deadlier disease 100 years ago). That's been my point from the beginning - not all pandemics are the same, it's about being proportional. If something is going around, then people need to look at it and weigh the risks. What we are doing now is like banning cars because people die in accidents.

 

[sinnergy]

2 years globally. We're one year into COVID 19. Do the math. You're speaking like the outbreak was last week. I don't know if you're just trying to rile up diffusionx or something but it just seems silly to me to say things will not be normal for years to come.

So 2 years is not multiple years ? But it will probably take 3.

 

[arkhamguy123]

So 2 years is not multiple years ?

You're not understanding me. You're talking as if, from right now, it will be years. As in into 2023, 2024 and beyond. That will not be the case. 2 years from the start, puts things at normal sometime in 2021. Perhaps I misunderstood your point but thats how you were coming across.

As far as your edit, I would highly doubt 3. 100 years ago a much worse pandemic only took 2. Google the vaccine candidates for COVID19. The biggest pessimist can't deny the good news there. I don't think it will be 3. Personal predication is spring or summer 2021 but we'll see.

 

[sinnergy]

Even if you go back to the beginning of this, in January and February, there was still a widespread belief that the government cannot and should not do all these things. Then they just did it after China sent out a few videos of people welding doors shut and nurses dropping dead or whatever (hmm how many young people have dropped dead in the west like that?), and nobnody stopped them, and now they still are doing it.

I mean, you're not from the US, but after 9/11, the government seized all these powers that everybody on 9/10 would have agreed it does not have. Yet they seized it, and 20 years later, they still have those powers. That's kind of the way that this stuff works.



COVID is objectively not nearly as deadly, in any way, as the spanish flu. Spanish flu killed millions of young people, while COVID just does not do that. I know you'll just ignore this and troll but I've been 100% cosnistent on this from the beginning. If COVID was killing 25 year olds the way the Spanish Flu was, I would be way more amendable to extreme countermeasures (and the government put restrictions in now it didn't for an objectively far deadlier disease 100 years ago). That's been my point from the beginning - not all pandemics are the same, it's about being proportional. If something is going around, then people need to look at it and weigh the risks. What we are doing now is like banning cars because people die in accidents.

You act like governments and scientists are total idiots ww But almost all countries take the same measures.. why would they do this ? Because a flu?

that’s how it sounds to me. You act like they are all imbeciles.. with only their best interest in getting better them selves ..

but where I live , it was all very open and still is ..

but not right now .. now we need to stomp this virus .

And to be honest , I don’t care if it’s 2 or 5 years , I plan on living at least 40 more . So in the grand theme of things, 5 isn’t even that long.

 

[diffusionx]

You act like governments and scientists are total idiots ww But almost all countries take the same measures.. why would they do this ?

IMO it is CYA and madness of herds. Once lockdowns because "the thing to do", any deviation from that takes courage and independence, something that we only saw in one country. It is easier to go along with the crowd.

I mean, even after the WHO said that countries shouldn't do lockdowns, even after a summer of studies said they weren't helpful, countries kept doing them. Like literally days after the WHO said they shouldn't do them, France and then the UK instituted them.

 

[DeepBreath87]

You're not understanding me. You're talking as if, from right now, it will be years. As in into 2023, 2024 and beyond. That will not be the case. 2 years from the start, puts things at normal sometime in 2021. Perhaps I misunderstood your point but thats how you were coming across.

As far as your edit, I would highly doubt 3. 100 years ago a much worse pandemic only took 2. Google the vaccine candidates for COVID19. The biggest pessimist can't deny the good news there. I don't think it will be 3. Personal predication is spring or summer 2021 but we'll see.

I think you’ve pretty much nailed it. This winter will be the only one like this. Covid doesn’t need to disappear. It will never disappear. It needs to be controlled at a manageable level, either through mitigation efforts like masks/distancing, natural herd immunity, or induced herd immunity via vaccinations. Obviously we are doing the first two already. The vaccine will accelerate the push towards herd immunity tremendously. We will have a hard winter, but it will be the last one like this.

 

[sinnergy]

IMO it is CYA and madness of herds. Once lockdowns because "the thing to do", any deviation from that takes courage and independence, something that we only saw in one country. It is easier to go along with the crowd.

I mean, even after the WHO said that countries shouldn't do lockdowns, even after a summer of studies said they weren't helpful, countries kept doing them. Like literally days after the WHO said they shouldn't do them, France and then the UK instituted them.

We have results that a full lockdown your economy rebounds faster , so there’s that . A example would be Wuhan ..

So yeah , our Dutch economy jumped 7 % back up after our lock downs .. which was unheard of . Reported on today.

imagine if we did a full lock down in March .

 

[arkhamguy123]

I think you’ve pretty much nailed it. This winter will be the only one like this. Covid doesn’t need to disappear. It will never disappear. It needs to be controlled at a manageable level, either through mitigation efforts like masks/distancing, natural herd immunity, or induced herd immunity via vaccinations. Obviously we are doing the first two already. The vaccine will accelerate the push towards herd immunity tremendously. We will have a hard winter, but it will be the last one like this.

Yep. It's actually crazy how much it mirrors the Spanish flu beat for beat. I looked up the Spanish flu sometime ago and it was the exact some trend. Huge late fall, winter spike, like we're in now. Then a little flare up the next year. And then done. That was it. A virus can't just steamroll and steamroll a populous forever. I bet if you had the internet back then the winter of 1918 you'd see a lot of "never going back to normal" " we're doomed" "It won't ever change or go away" like you are now. And you look back and while tragic and horrific it became a mere blip in history.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Yep. It's actually crazy how much it mirrors the Spanish flu beat for beat. I looked up the Spanish flu sometime ago and it was the exact some trend. Huge late fall, winter spike, like we're in now. Then a little flare up the next year. And then done. That was it. A virus can't just steamroll and steamroll a populous forever. I bet if you had the internet back then the winter of 1918 you'd see a lot of "never going back to normal" " we're doomed" "It won't ever change or go away" like you are now. And you look back and while tragic and horrific it became a mere blip in history.

And the Spanish flu was far worse. It effected younger people far worse. I’m sure it didn’t help that we were dealing with essentially 19th century medicine at that time. Even increasing O2 requirements were a death sentence back then.

This will be a tough winter. I’m a healthcare provider and it’s already looking rough. But hard times make for stronger people. We have to look at it that way.

 

[diffusionx]

We have results that a full lockdown your economy rebounds faster , so there’s that . A example would be Wuhan ..

So yeah , our economy jumped 7 % back up after our lock downs .. which was unheard of .

imagine if we did a full lock down in March .

What China says happened in Wuhan, and their own totals now, make no sense. Just because they leaked a few videos of fainting nurses or welded doors doesn't mean that is what actually happened. Their numbers, especially now, are not to be trusted based on what we know in our own countries.

7%, your economy is like a baby, ours jumped up 33% post-lockdown, but still that is not enough, many people are still struggling, and the subsequent problems they face are worse than what COVID could do to them.

Yep. It's actually crazy how much it mirrors the Spanish flu beat for beat. I looked up the Spanish flu sometime ago and it was the exact some trend. Huge late fall, winter spike, like we're in now. Then a little flare up the next year. And then done. That was it. A virus can't just steamroll and steamroll a populous forever. I bet if you had the internet back then the winter of 1918 you'd see a lot of "never going back to normal" " we're doomed" "It won't ever change or go away" like you are now. And you look back and while tragic and horrific it became a mere blip in history.

Well, they're both the flu. Of course they followed the same trends.

 

[Nymphae]

Pretty heartbreaking anecdote

 

[BigBooper]

You act like governments and scientists are total idiots ww But almost all countries take the same measures.. why would they do this ? Because a flu?

that’s how it sounds to me. You act like they are all imbeciles.. with only their best interest in getting better them selves ..

but where I live , it was all very open and still is ..

but not right now .. now we need to stomp this virus .

And to be honest , I don’t care if it’s 2 or 5 years , I plan on living at least 40 more . So in the grand theme of things, 5 isn’t even that long.

So the average life expectancy of men is 76 years. Imagine thinking losing 7% of your life is no big deal. It's truly a mind virus.

 

[Joe T.]

Like I said , better is to accept , your way of living has changed for the coming future , and obey the rules as close as you can so that Iife is manageable.

Life is "manageable" without obeying any of the new rules. Submitting to something you know is doing much more harm than good is the worst advice you can give. If you believe Wuhan tested its entire population of 11 million in under three weeks and only found 300 asymptomatic cases back in May I'm not sure there's much to discuss here, the math makes that simply impossible. Behold their strict adherence to masks:



This is all a sick propaganda game and you know it. The Canadian military got caught using it to instill fear on its own people:

Canadians shouldn’t be viewed as “targets” – Military initiative to aim propaganda at public is shut down

Military initiative to aim propaganda at public is shut down.

ottawacitizen.com

If this is what Canadians are up to imagine what other countries are doing.

 

[cryptoadam]

1.5 million people died of AIDS this year, over 30 million since it started.

Imagine all the lives that could have been saved if the government decided it knew what was best and locked everyone down.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[diffusionx]

By the lockdown peoples’ favorite metric, excess deaths, more people are dying from these restrictions than the virus.

 

[cryptoadam]

By the lockdown peoples’ favorite metric, excess deaths, more people are dying from these restrictions than the virus.

It was worth those 1500 people dying though.

Maybe with the next lockdown they can get that number doubled!

 

[Birgitte2004-2]

It was worth those 1500 people dying though.

Maybe with the next lockdown they can get that number doubled!

Yeah, it's totally worth it so people who aren't them have a very slight reduction in their odds of death from COVID. Who cares if it kills huge amounts of other people.

 

[hariseldon]

That’s what you make of it for the coming years it will be . Who knows after a couple ..

You absolute fascist bootlicker. At this point it’s quite clear you are not here for honest discussion, you are here to troll, pedal bullshit and wank over fascism. You’re there, tugging that tiny todger, reaching a state of ecstasy as you climax thinking of Stalin doing us all up the arse. You are a truly disgusting human being.

 

[diffusionx]

Joe Biden’s COVID-19 adviser: US needs ‘targeted’ restrictions, not nationwide lockdown

A top member of President-elect Joe Biden’s COVID-19 task force says the country needs “targeted” restrictions to contain the coronavirus, not a nationwide lockdown — as suggested…

nypost.com

Two days, two Biden COVID-19 advisors, two opinions on what to do

But I thought "science" said only one thing

 

[cryptoadam]

Joe Biden’s COVID-19 adviser: US needs ‘targeted’ restrictions, not nationwide lockdown

A top member of President-elect Joe Biden’s COVID-19 task force says the country needs “targeted” restrictions to contain the coronavirus, not a nationwide lockdown — as suggested…

nypost.com

Two days, two Biden COVID-19 advisors, two opinions on what to do

But I thought "science" said only one thing

Yes targeted.

Targeted to destroy all small business and targeted to force people to their knees and dependent on the gubernmant.

 

[diffusionx]

It just never ends with these fucking people

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Even if you're a bootlicker like sinnergy, how can you go about advocating for this shit when the people pushing it through so obviously don't believe in it.

 

[12Goblins]

That means he's got it lol

 

[Hulk_Smash]

So, what do you guys think? Now that we have a vaccine, we can end these lockdowns and mask mandates, right? RIGHT?

 

[12Goblins]

Fauci opposes nationwide lockdown: 'We can turn this around'

Top U. S. virologist Dr. Anthony Fauci said he does not favor a nationwide lockdown to control the spread of COVID-19. Caption: Video: Sinclair Broadcast Group. In an interview Thursday with Sinclair's Jan Jeffcoat, Fauci said he "would like to not see us have to resort to a lockdown. " "You can...

nbcmontana.com

 

[BigBooper]

What's the deal with this term lockdown? Call it what it is, martial law. If you are arrested for shopping, arrested for being outside, arrested for gathering together, then they have circumvented the Constitution and implemented martial law.

 

[12Goblins]

^if you can't tell the difference between a lockdown and martial law you might have bigger problems