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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
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SonorFagoen
Neo Member
The only way I will accept a vaccine is under the following conditions:
1. What are all the ingredients of your vaccine? List them all along with all active chemical reactions. If you have a "proprietary formula", fuck off. You don't get to tell me "I have a secret chemical combination" I'm injecting in yours and your children's body.
2. List all the results of the studies that led to the FDA approval. Harvard has done research on this and if you trade pharmaceutical companies you should already know. The FDA is corrupt as shit. They routinely approve medication that either does NOTHING but may cause mild side effects or the trials are corrupt and a natural over the counter medicine that they are trying to get the FDA to pass it as a subscription poll(see "Vascepa" fish oil where instead of giving people placebo they gave them medication to make heart conditions spike so their stupid fish oil looked like it would lower it), or they do serious damage with side effects, and some even kill you. The majority fall in this category, the minority are actually "safe" with side effects or useful.
3. Because of the above, I require 3 different international health organizations to approve it, including an independent health commission.
Unless these 3 criteria are met, fuck off.
1. What are all the ingredients of your vaccine? List them all along with all active chemical reactions. If you have a "proprietary formula", fuck off. You don't get to tell me "I have a secret chemical combination" I'm injecting in yours and your children's body.
2. List all the results of the studies that led to the FDA approval. Harvard has done research on this and if you trade pharmaceutical companies you should already know. The FDA is corrupt as shit. They routinely approve medication that either does NOTHING but may cause mild side effects or the trials are corrupt and a natural over the counter medicine that they are trying to get the FDA to pass it as a subscription poll(see "Vascepa" fish oil where instead of giving people placebo they gave them medication to make heart conditions spike so their stupid fish oil looked like it would lower it), or they do serious damage with side effects, and some even kill you. The majority fall in this category, the minority are actually "safe" with side effects or useful.
3. Because of the above, I require 3 different international health organizations to approve it, including an independent health commission.
Unless these 3 criteria are met, fuck off.
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SonorFagoen
Neo Member
Not that I think about it, I'll add one more:
4. My personal physician of choice must also approve it, checked against my personal health history.
4. My personal physician of choice must also approve it, checked against my personal health history.
Good for you ! 1% of 7 billion people ww is still a lot .
MisterFalcon
Member
"Someone cut off your fingers ? Stop whining, that's maybe 0,1% of your body."
cryptoadam
Banned
6 feet isnt enough according to SK study.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Just yesterday I think I saw Fauci claiming we haven't seen the full brunt of the Thanksgiving surge. I was like... uhh wasn't Thanksgiving ~13 days ago?
Media is just trying to lay the groundwork of fear post-vaccine.
It would not surprise me if they push for longer distances, more shutdowns, more masks and eye goggles, more separation, etc. than they are right now, pre-vaccine.
Media is just trying to lay the groundwork of fear post-vaccine.
It would not surprise me if they push for longer distances, more shutdowns, more masks and eye goggles, more separation, etc. than they are right now, pre-vaccine.
diffusionx
Gold Member
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
The 100-times over billionaire who engineered this entire COVID hoax strategy of mass testing, lockdowns, and mandatory vaccines (yep S sinnergy , they're coming for you) admits that she didn't think of the economic impacts of the strategy.
This is how little they give a shit about the peasants. Also remember that any people who were objectively more qualified to speak on this than college dropout computer nerd Bill Gates and said something like "umm we need to look at this from all angles" got censored by big tech and the media.
China is proof .. booming biz there from mayZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
The 100-times over billionaire who engineered this entire COVID hoax strategy of mass testing, lockdowns, and mandatory vaccines (yep S sinnergy , they're coming for you) admits that she didn't think of the economic impacts of the strategy.
This is how little they give a shit about the peasants. Also remember that any people who were objectively more qualified to speak on this than college dropout computer nerd Bill Gates and said something like "umm we need to look at this from all angles" got censored by big tech and the media.
we are eating left over still 
diffusionx
Gold Member
China is proof .. booming biz there from may
imagine believing anything china said about this the entire time
bigsnack
Member
DeepBreath87
, you’ve been quiet lately. Has anything changed for you based on the work load you are experiencing? What’s the view from the trenches at this point?Imagine believing Twitter posts
Joe T.
Member
Imagine believing Twitter posts
♫ ♫ ♫ Imagine defending your position ♫ ♫ ♫
I'll ask again since you dodged it a page back: How many lies does it take to break your trust in a system?
DeepBreath87
Banned
It’s busier now. I mean I’ve always figured the virus was going to be a problem at some point. Generally speaking it is older and unhealthy people who get very sick. One big problem is the US has a ton of those people. And they tie up resources.
I won’t play games and pretend it’s all great. It sucks. But I’m not bitching about it. I’m still against restrictions for the most part, but I think that’s more because of the bullshit they pulled in the spring. The hospital I work out is using all kinds of spaces as surge beds and surge icus. I can understand the need to attempt to slow down the influx of patients. I am skeptical it will actually work, but I actually understand it now as opposed to the bullshit back in April when no one here was sick.
We will all be ok still. Most of it is just my job is busy as shit now. But it will pass.
bigsnack
Member
Thanks for the details. I think it's very easy for folks to let it rip on a forum when they don't have any hands on experience. I hope this provides some context for everyone regardless of what they believe. Yes, mostly the old and fat are getting whacked, but those people are still somebody's father, aunt, sister, etc. The same vet's assistant who who works across the street (who had C19 back in February right after I did) has recently started to scold my kids and our kid's babysitter for not wearing masks. My first instinct was to get upset, but then I later found out that very recently her husband's aunt and 2 of her cousins had died within a 10 day period from C19. Regardless of how serious the virus feels to me, I can guarantee that it feels pretty fucking serious to her. I think it's the right move to try and be tolerant, since I understand why she's being the way she is.
My view is still basically the same as before. I believe the mortality of the virus is embedded in something far more complex than just wearing a mask or not. Previous SARS exposure, general health, weight, vitamin deficiency, pre-existing internal inflammation, genetic disposition., etc. This is all stuff that has barely made a blip in the news, which is what I find the most unfortunate throughout the whole thing. Thanks for your candor, and hang in there.
My view is still basically the same as before. I believe the mortality of the virus is embedded in something far more complex than just wearing a mask or not. Previous SARS exposure, general health, weight, vitamin deficiency, pre-existing internal inflammation, genetic disposition., etc. This is all stuff that has barely made a blip in the news, which is what I find the most unfortunate throughout the whole thing. Thanks for your candor, and hang in there.
JORMBO
Darkness no more
Wolf gets COVID and sends the state into lockdown mode again.
www.nbcphiladelphia.com
Pa. Halts School Sports, Bans Indoor Dining as Coronavirus Cases Surge
Pennsylvania is temporarily halting school sports and other extracurricular activities, ordering gyms, theaters and casinos to close and banning indoor dining at restaurants as state officials respond to the worsening pandemic with new restrictions.
www.nbcphiladelphia.com
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Sweden, once the country for anti covidders to look at ..
Tegnell is responsible for 1000s of avoidable deaths.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Yeah I know. Dude is a cunt. If I thought any of the bullshit he is proposing would work, I might support it. But it won’t do shit. I hope my gym just stays open.Wolf gets COVID and sends the state into lockdown mode again.
Pa. Halts School Sports, Bans Indoor Dining as Coronavirus Cases Surge
Pennsylvania is temporarily halting school sports and other extracurricular activities, ordering gyms, theaters and casinos to close and banning indoor dining at restaurants as state officials respond to the worsening pandemic with new restrictions.
BigBooper
Member
Semens pretty clear that at risk and elderly people should not hang out in crowds and people around them should use PPE. Let them and everyone else make their own risk assessment. This is not the pandemic that justifies martial law.
OuterLimits
Member
King Northam(blackface) here in Virginia issued new decrees today saying Curfew from midnight to 5am, and we should be grateful because other states curfew is 10pm.(oh thank you for showing mercy King Ralph).
Granted, it won't be police enforced so I suppose it's more of a suggestion. We are also supposed to wear masks in other people's homes now. Lol.
He also yelled about churches and you could tell he really wanted to impose strict restrictions on them but couldn't since the Supreme Court recently ruled against NY on this. So instead he just lectured.
Granted, it won't be police enforced so I suppose it's more of a suggestion. We are also supposed to wear masks in other people's homes now. Lol.
He also yelled about churches and you could tell he really wanted to impose strict restrictions on them but couldn't since the Supreme Court recently ruled against NY on this. So instead he just lectured.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Fuck you.
I have no idea if you are serious or not, but Tegnell is the face of our health agency not our supreme ruler. There are lots of people working there and they agree mostly with eachother and communicate their reasoning well to the public and generally people here in Sweden think they do a great job.
I feel like foreigners dont seem to realise that except for keeping schools open and not recommending masks to the public (since they dont seem to do jack shit there) the swedish strategy is not that unique. It also has high support, does not keep children living in fear and tries to minimize the total impact of the pandemic (not just covid deaths as a number).
We are also "better" at counting covid deaths compared to many countries out there (you will start to notice this if you checked excess deaths during spring).
Many would rather have the situation in Norway/Finland though since those countries are big outliers worldwide. That might never have been possible here though.
OuterLimits
Member
I like those stats on last page showing most deadly days and listing the last week in top 10.
First off, I guess they forgot the Spanish flu in 1918. In October that year hundreds were dying a day in Philly alone and thousands across the country. Over 500k died in the United States that year from the Spanish flu(keep in mind population of country was much less than today) with the vast majority of deaths happening in second wave from September to November.
Secondly, the 1900 hurricane killed 8k(or more) in one city in a couple hours.(Btw the book Isaac's Storm is an awesome read about the Galveston Hurricane). It obviously wasn't impacting 99% of the country
Over 23k troops(both sides) were killed or severely injured that September day 1862 in Antietam. Perhaps most were on Confederate side though. Over 600k died in Civil War which is crazy to think about considering total population back then.
First off, I guess they forgot the Spanish flu in 1918. In October that year hundreds were dying a day in Philly alone and thousands across the country. Over 500k died in the United States that year from the Spanish flu(keep in mind population of country was much less than today) with the vast majority of deaths happening in second wave from September to November.
Secondly, the 1900 hurricane killed 8k(or more) in one city in a couple hours.(Btw the book Isaac's Storm is an awesome read about the Galveston Hurricane). It obviously wasn't impacting 99% of the country
Over 23k troops(both sides) were killed or severely injured that September day 1862 in Antietam. Perhaps most were on Confederate side though. Over 600k died in Civil War which is crazy to think about considering total population back then.
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SonorFagoen
Neo Member
SonorFagoen
Neo Member
I wish someone that is pro-mandatory vaccines can explain the logic to me.
If you believe the vaccine is effective, then why would you be worried about non-vaccinated people refusing it and giving you the virus? To the point where you want to force people to take it? Why? If it really works, just simply take the vaccine and don't worry about people who choose to put themselves at risk. Their choice. Take away their insurance or whatever else you want to do if you feel they are a burden on the hospitals systems, that's fine, but that's it. Take the vaccine and move on with your life.
Making vaccines mandatory is illogical and unethical. Mandatory vaccination is an admission the vaccine is ineffective and a terrorist criminal act.
This is yet another issue the US Supreme Court needs to rule on. Once a vaccine is available for those worried about the virus it is unconstitutional to force others to take it, or to restrict their freedom and prevent them to be part of normal society.
If you believe the vaccine is effective, then why would you be worried about non-vaccinated people refusing it and giving you the virus? To the point where you want to force people to take it? Why? If it really works, just simply take the vaccine and don't worry about people who choose to put themselves at risk. Their choice. Take away their insurance or whatever else you want to do if you feel they are a burden on the hospitals systems, that's fine, but that's it. Take the vaccine and move on with your life.
Making vaccines mandatory is illogical and unethical. Mandatory vaccination is an admission the vaccine is ineffective and a terrorist criminal act.
This is yet another issue the US Supreme Court needs to rule on. Once a vaccine is available for those worried about the virus it is unconstitutional to force others to take it, or to restrict their freedom and prevent them to be part of normal society.
I have had the mandatory vaccine thoughts when I was younger, and I do get the reasoning when it comes to proven vaccinations for kids that pretty much eradicates some diseases.
I still think information should be enough though, so enough people take the vaccine to protect the ones that cannot take the vaccines. It is not only to protect the individual, it is to protect other people as well.
Vaccines are seldom 100 % protection, but if 90 % of a population takes a vaccine that only works 80 % of the time, that is good enough to protect everyone.
Stouffers
Banned
I don’t have the boost ball upgrade yet
DeepBreath87
Banned
It is though. The vast majority of people in this country have little to fear. Most of us are being asked to sacrifice to help others stay safe. And there is value in that. I’m not against the idea outright. But the media has decided the best way to get people to go along with things is essentially to obfuscate the risks this poses to healthy people under 50 in order to scare the shit out of as many people as possible.
You can argue about whether that strategy is appropriate or not, but I don’t think you can argue that it isn’t happening.
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
I am not pro-mandatory this vaccine, but the reason why you make a vaccine mandatory for those who can take it because there are people who simply can not take the vaccine. Every person who can take it but chooses not to is putting at risk people who genuinely can't.
It would suck to catch Polio because you are severely allergic to the vaccine just because Momma down the lane believes the polio vaccine will give her perfectly healthy child Mercury poisoning(in spite of the fact you can get a vaccine with no Mercury to begin with, if you are so worried about it)
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks for your considered hot-take. I take it you were hiding under a rock when in the early days the media were presenting this as an existential threat to humanity then.
SonorFagoen
Neo Member
The only way this makes sense is if you can prove that the vaccine is 100% safe and has 0 consequences, and the people who take it know so in advance, otherwise you are favoring putting someone's health at risk over another's. Which is unethical and lacks morality.
My mother took a Flu vaccine just last year, she got extremely sick. If the vaccine has provable side effects, then you can't force those side effects on an innocent human being, in order to "maybe" prevent someone else from catching Polio.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty much this. Where I'd be a little more ok with the usual vaccines being compulsory as they're proven, battle-tested, I'm really not in favour in this case as development has been rushed and safety protocols brushed to one side. There's no way I'd be willing to take this until a good few years down the line.
DeepBreath87
Banned
Ok but you are basically saying to people, you are forced to take the risk of getting Gillian-Barre, which is horrific btw, because we’ve decided your risk (minuscule as it is) is less important than some other person’s risk. We aren’t letting that person decide to take on the risk, we’re forcing them to do so.
Should I, as a healthcare worker, be forced to take on further risk, when I’ve already accepted the risk of getting covid that my job presents? I will very likely voluntarily take the vaccine as soon as it is offered. But that is my choice. I actually think it’s fucked up that you or anyone else is saying “you have to do this so we can all be safe”. That’s easy for you to say as Johnny nobody who isn’t rolling their sleeve up next week. If 6 weeks from now we find some problem we didn’t know about, which isn’t impossible, it will be no skin off your back.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
Not to get sociological but this is one of the issues with becoming a divided, low trust society as we are now. If I am forced to take some risk for "other people", then I want to know those other people are on the same page as me in all sorts of different ways. People took the risk of a smallpox vaccine because it was a two-way street. That used to be the case in the US, as late as the 90s, but it is not anymore. It is much more "man for himself", divided, and polarized. We can debate the reasons endlessly, but that's not really the point. The point is that a low trust society functions very differently from a high trust one, with all sorts of consequences. Typically, the only way that society can hold together for any amount of time is through the use of force, which is why so many people are talking about making this vaccine mandatory.
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Yes. I agree 100%.
The media would never, ever, do something like that.
No way.
Even if you were to scour the history books you'd never even find one example.
Why are we talking about Polio here?
I think that's a strange leap to make.
"Ah but this other more deadly virus blah blah blah." OK. That's not the issue at hand though, is it?
It's quite simple. They don't understand the concepts of consent and bodily-autonomy.
Or, if they do understand, they do not believe that they are absolutes.
You can then ask questions about the morality of shaming or coercing people into doing something that they do not want to do.
At the end of the day this is the core "unstoppable force meets immovable object" moment in almost all of these arguments.
Should the government be able to force you to stay in your home? To close your business? To leave your job? Etc Etc.
Some people are fiercely independent and hold that above all things.
Some people think that the greater good is more important than individual rights.
It's a knot you can never untangle.
Though I would say if you are going to violate the principle of consent or force a person out of work and so on then you'd better be damn sure that it's 100% necessary and the only move you have left. There's no coming back from this.
If we trash our economies and bring about massive amounts of poverty or if we drive people to suicide or if something goes horribly wrong with the virus it's not like we can take it back.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
Cuomo had his press conference today and it was bizarre. By his own admission 3/4th of new cases are generated in households and social gathering. He literally said that since everything else is closed people are gathering in houses more. Compared to households, only about 1.5% of new cases are from restaurants. Yet his new move is to shut down indoor dining in NYC next week.
can anyone tell me how this makes sense if you’re driving people from 1.5% to 75%? How is this following data or science? Meanwhile probably 80% of restaurants are going to close permanently as a result of this decision since it’s too cold and nobody is eating outside anymore.
so little of this has made any logical sense and now 9 months on they continue to act in bizarre and idiotic ways.
can anyone tell me how this makes sense if you’re driving people from 1.5% to 75%? How is this following data or science? Meanwhile probably 80% of restaurants are going to close permanently as a result of this decision since it’s too cold and nobody is eating outside anymore.
so little of this has made any logical sense and now 9 months on they continue to act in bizarre and idiotic ways.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
It’s all about doing “something”. Of at least the appearance of doing it. Whether it’s actually effective or not isn’t really important. And if that means we have to sacrifice the livelihood of an already struggling industry in the pursuit of political posturing, it’s a small price to pay.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The way the government has acted in these insane and illogical ways from the start, and the way they “give” us some our freedoms back only to take them away later, really doesn’t make any sense except as some sort of bizarre large scale MKULTRA operation on the whole of society, to break our mental faculties.
even now with the vaccine, look at the way they put out stories of hope and return to normalcy, but also saying you still need to act exactly the same for as long as well tell you, what is stopping them from saying in April “oh well looks like vaccines aren’t going well, based on these bogus numbers, social distance lock down and masks indefinitely.”
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cryptoadam
Banned
You know what, with the jab going out across the world right now, its time to end this Pandemic and emergency powers.
Its over. The vaccine is here, people will get vaxxed. 99.9% of people will still survive anyways.
I don't see a reason for any governors or PM's to still have these emergency powers anymore.
Time to go back to normalness where governors can't extend public emergencies for indefinite amounts of time.
Its over. The vaccine is here, people will get vaxxed. 99.9% of people will still survive anyways.
I don't see a reason for any governors or PM's to still have these emergency powers anymore.
Time to go back to normalness where governors can't extend public emergencies for indefinite amounts of time.
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Since everyone seemed to miss it, I'm not talking about the COVID Vaccine. I am entirely against making that one mandatory.
I'm presenting the argument as to why you might make a vaccine mandatory, not COVID's vaccine.
And I specifically called out Polio because unlike COVID, people should actually fear a world in which Polio returns to a wide-spread disease. Unlike COVID, Polio is something people don't just live through for a few days, recover from, and go on with their lives. And unlike COVID, the Polio Vaccine actually went through testing and people should trust that the modern vaccine is less severe than the disease.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
If something like unvaccinated polio was going around I guarantee you people would take it extremely seriously AND would sign up for a potentially risky vaccine when made available. They wouldn’t need to be told to.
but I also want to point out that humans lived with polio for thousands of years; there’s documented evidence going back to Ancient Egypt. Yet we are totally unable to function because a flu-like virus that kills only extremely old and unhealthy people is going around.
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