GooseMan69
Member
It ends when people stop complying.
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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
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It ends when people stop complying.
DeepBreath87
Banned
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Aggelos
Member
COVID-19 recession and depression are gonna be nasty from 2021 and gong forward.
COVID-19 recession - Wikipedia
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Ah, so... you actually mean covid is no worse than flu to you. Gotcha
Covid is not all that deadly at all to someone of your age.
And I‘m sorry if I sound flippant or rude, but I’m really fucking sick of hearing how annoyed people are with lockdowns because Covid isn’t dangerous to them.
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Chittagong
Gold Member
UK stats keep looking really bad. I was hoping it was just Christmas backlog but they remain at over 50K/day. I give it 2 weeks tops until everyone is banging pans on balconies again.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
Yes. Pretty fucking horrific all round. Fingers crossed the harder measures help as they did before. The fucking government have been woeful on this. Dread to think what Xmas is going to do.
DeepBreath87
Banned
The truth is these lockdowns are not effective enough to justify their cost. For whatever they do to slow the spread of the virus, which is unclear at this point, they collapse the economy for almost everyone outside of the wealthy and people who work in “essential” areas.
Joe T.
Member
And to that end:
Anyone that wants a return to normal will have to take it back themselves, governments aren't giving it back to you. They're all aboard the globalist UN/WEF agenda.
And for the lightweights that desperately try to dismiss this by calling it a conspiracy theory, listen carefully to Alberta, Canada's premier:
T8SC
Member
So let me get this straight, im speaking mainly from a UK POV but im sure it goes for all:
The Gov acted WAY too late, people still going on holidays etc in March... but then, lockdown, 2 months or so...
We come out of lockdown, around June time ... people go outside but not everything opens up, salons, gyms etc are still several weeks away.
August - Go & eat, we'll pay £10.
Sept.... hmmm interesting how cases and various stats are still going up.... The Government seems surprised.
Oct - Calls for lockdown again
November - Lockdown occurs, numbers (cases & deaths) declines.
Dec - Lockdown ends, numbers (cases & deaths) increases.
Jan - Lockdown/Tier 4 starts again - No doubt numbers will decline
Feb??? - Lockdown/Tier 4 ends - Numbers will probably rise again
Mar??? - Lockdown/Tier X starts yet again - Numbers will d
See where I'm going?
Lets just keep doing this same shit over and over until there's fuck all left of shops, businesses and whatever else. /Sarcasm
The Gov acted WAY too late, people still going on holidays etc in March... but then, lockdown, 2 months or so...
We come out of lockdown, around June time ... people go outside but not everything opens up, salons, gyms etc are still several weeks away.
August - Go & eat, we'll pay £10.
Sept.... hmmm interesting how cases and various stats are still going up.... The Government seems surprised.
Oct - Calls for lockdown again
November - Lockdown occurs, numbers (cases & deaths) declines.
Dec - Lockdown ends, numbers (cases & deaths) increases.
Jan - Lockdown/Tier 4 starts again - No doubt numbers will decline
Feb??? - Lockdown/Tier 4 ends - Numbers will probably rise again
Mar??? - Lockdown/Tier X starts yet again - Numbers will d
See where I'm going?
Lets just keep doing this same shit over and over until there's fuck all left of shops, businesses and whatever else. /Sarcasm
Ah, so... you actually mean covid is no worse than flu to you. Gotcha
Covid is not all that deadly at all to someone of your age.
And I‘m sorry if I sound flippant or rude, but I’m really fucking sick of hearing how annoyed people are with lockdowns because Covid isn’t dangerous to them.
You still haven't addressed any of my questions or points which is around how do we (as a society) back off these draconian measures when COVID is "under control" (whatever that means and I realize the definition is different for everyone. You can't possibly advocate living like this forever, no? So as someone who is pro-lockdown, when does it end? How does it end? What is preventing our government officials from doing it again during a bad flu season (which we have seen before)?
What is the support for lockdowns if that is your stance? The WHO said they should be a last resort. Again, the WHO is questionable in terms of their validity throughout this whole thing, but in theory they are supposed to a "gold standard" of sorts for providing guidance on how to navigate a health crisis. I personally don't think lockdowns are doing much - the data from CA and NYC would support that. In my state, Ohio, our health director and governor have come out and said the same thing - transmission is not happening at schools, restaurants, stores, etc. It is happening in homes and personal gatherings. If this is what officials who are enforcing these lockdowns are saying, how is it defensible when these very people are saying "we are banning X, even though we know X isn't the cause of COVID spread."? There is no logic to that statement.
Banning large gatherings makes sense, and if you want to implement some type of social distancing requirements in businesses and restaurants, fine I guess. I'm not convinced they work based on contact tracing data that seems to show that spread is coming from private gatherings rather than public ones.
Again - you're dismissive, condescending, and limiting the argument about the lethality of COVID down to a simplistic view that isn't taking into account larger societal considerations. Yes, I am less likely to die of COVID. So are billions of people on the planet. People age 50 and under are largely what helps keeps society going from an economic standpoint. Under 50 years of age, COVID is not any worse than the flu from a mortality standpoint. Why can't this population of people live their lives with some mitigation/protective measures when dealing with vulnerable populations and those who are more vulnerable take precautions for themselves? Between 50 and 70 there is obviously increased risk, but it is not an Armageddon type illness even for that population, with those mortality rates heavily skewed towards individuals with comorbidities. What is your interpretation the data that is clearly so different than my own or others?
Is your argument then that it's okay to have indefinite lockdowns regardless of the impact it has on young people and that older and vulnerable populations have no responsibility to care for and protect themselves? Because years of economic hardship on younger people has the unintended consequence of creating more poverty which leads to all kinds of other problems - both health and otherwise. And it is the working class - those who are most vulnerable to end up below the poverty line as a result of lockdowns - who are disproptionately impacted by the COVID response. So are those long term results more acceptable to you by taking a more balanced approach to COVID rather than lockdowns or do you just disagree entirely?
arkhamguy123
Member
I think the sad thing is people and governments have given up. Yes we have vaccines and thats incredible and they'll do wonders but what we're gonna see the next few months is raw, dirty, unfiltered, old fashioned herd immunity. A lot of death, a lot of cases, but you'll see it decline I'd say in the late january-march/april timeline maybe. It's just hit a point of spread where this is whats gonna happen.
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arkhamguy123
Member
People think this coronavirus is the Superman of viruses. Utterly invulnerable and scientifically impenetrable because its novel and nobody has really lived through something like this before but the reality is it is a virus like any other and basic virology dictates that you have your susceptible, and your infected, when the latter starts to come up on the former, it runs out of hosts and dies off. It's just sad we're in this position where thats how it has to be. You can and pull up articles from January and February archives and its just heart breaking because you can see every twist and turn and moment we could have prevented this.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
Lockdowns should carry on the entire time millions of elderly and vulnerable people are at risk of death. Simple as that. Their lives are more important than younger people getting to do what they want. Lockdowns have been effective in here in the UK. The US never locked down nationally.
The vaccine will end the pandemic.
Fair enough. I don't know that I agree with you on the trade off of crippling younger people and the working class, but I can respect the point of view.
Stouffers
Banned
A registered doctor? Can’t you just go to any doctor?
nikolino840
Member
cryptoadam
Banned
Where did the flu go ?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
prag16
Banned
Is economic ruination for 100 million young and middle aged people worth it to keep one elderly person alive?
If your answer is yes you are insane. If you say no, then where is your line? And how do you know for sure that what we're doing now is on the good side of your line?
DeepBreath87
Banned
I guess I wonder why you wouldn’t use the same rational to ban cars or guns or leaving your home generally. I’m sure you have a limit somewhere. I’m just curious where it is. We are seeing a pretty big increase in suicide in young people. Is that an acceptable loss to prevent these deaths?
I’m not trying to call you out. Your position is defensible, obviously. I don’t share it but that’s fine.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Ah, so... you actually mean covid is no worse than flu to you. Gotcha
Covid is not all that deadly at all to someone of your age.
And I‘m sorry if I sound flippant or rude, but I’m really fucking sick of hearing how annoyed people are with lockdowns because Covid isn’t dangerous to them.
Arizona News
Arizona Breaking news, local stories, and On Your Side investigations from the state’s largest television newsroom.
www.azfamily.com
Coronavirus doctor says lung scans for young patients were ‘nothing short of terrifying’
A Belgian doctor working to battle the coronavirus says he’s treated several seriously ill young patients — and their lung scans were “nothing short of terrifying,” accordin…
nypost.com
Covid-19: Lung damage 'identified' in study
Researchers are to investigate whether young people and those not in hospital could be affected.
www.bbc.com
This study could explain why some patients suffer 'long COVID'
This uncommon long-term effect of coronavirus seems to be caused by extensive damage to the architecture of the lungs, where healthy tissue is almost completely substituted by scar tissue.
www.weforum.org
Coronavirus: asymptomatic people can still develop lung damage
CT scans reveal lung damage in people with no symptoms.
theconversation.com
Even if you are asymptomatic you may have severe damage and be on the border of losing consciousness, and this might be permanent loss of exercise ability. A second hit of covid, if no long term immunity can be created and if the damage is permanent and you may see a significant wave of people dying from cumulative damage to the lungs.
It may be that covid will generate a new wave of disability that needs government assistance. Some people who've recovered from covid can't walk a block or go up a flight of stairs without becoming significantly strained.
How COVID-19 damages the lungs | Healthy You
Since COVID-19 is a respiratory disease, some people can experience pneumonia or more serious lung complications. Learn more.
Also if enough people get infected at the same time this can still overwhelm hospitals.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
His position is not defensible, it is insane, for the exact reason you say. People die from lots of stuff every year, stuff we tolerate and accept as part of living in the world. We have also always accepted that old people are particularly vulnerable to maladies that younger people brush off, and again, it's part of the deal.
The only reason people say this now with COVID is because the media tells them to, basically.
Lister
Banned
Holy shit at the stupidity and ignorance in this thread.
Right now LA hospitals are calling in the national guard to help move the bodies crowding up the morgues. Patients with other life threatening emergencies are dying because hospitals are overwhelmed.
This isn't the motherfucking flu. And its not just the old dying. Not to mention that its also not the case that if you don't die you come out 100%. There are issues that can stem from the disease like lower lung capacity, as well as other lung and heart damage.
Right now LA hospitals are calling in the national guard to help move the bodies crowding up the morgues. Patients with other life threatening emergencies are dying because hospitals are overwhelmed.
This isn't the motherfucking flu. And its not just the old dying. Not to mention that its also not the case that if you don't die you come out 100%. There are issues that can stem from the disease like lower lung capacity, as well as other lung and heart damage.
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Airbus Jr
Banned
These numbers are not surprising considering the way people keep underestimating these disease
Some of those guys are here people like Joe T, Prag, carlosrox
These people are the reason why the covid contamination are failing
Joe T.
Member
Great USA numbers ! I hope they improve higher with the new variation.
EVEN that doctor who left the vaccine out of the freezer is doing his part
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I’d ban guns completely, because they’re stupid things that nobody other than law enforcement and the military need. Cars are forms of transport that are needed by human beings for work and life. A pandemic virus is not.
If young people are killing themselves then we need to improve our mental health services, not risk the lives of millions of elderly and vulnerable people. And yes, those suicides in the hundreds are worth it to save the lives of tens or hundreds of thousands of others.
I‘d rather see me, you, and every other person on this forum lose their job than see tens of thousands of people die of Covid. There is always another job. There is never another life.
Again, all of this is awful, but it’s the reality we face... regardless of how many people in this thread don’t want to accept that, and will do everything they can to convince themselves and others that Covid isn’t a big deal, because that’s easier than just admitting they care more about their own financial and social welfare than the lives of other people.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
It’s sure as shit worth it to keep tens of millions of elderly and vulnerable people alive. Certainly the amount predicted to die without Covid restrictions and lockdowns. They have more right to their lives than you do to your job.
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Outrunner
Member
It's fucking ridiculous. These people are so fucking dumb.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
This is the difference between the lockdown enthusiasts and the rest of us. We are questioning this not just because of the madness of over-sensitive PCR but also because there will be a horrendous long term impact to this and governments don’t seem to have an exit plan, while the WHO and others are pushing ideas like the vaccine not being the end. We can’t keep this up forever. You’re doing ok. I’m doing ok. Kids aren’t - they’re missing education and socialisation. Poor people are getting shafted because most can’t work from home or worse still they work in industries decimated by the insane response to the virus. Finally all those people who dreamed big and started a small business, putting in blood, sweat and tears, working every hour God sends to make their dream and provide jobs for others, all of them are being screwed so Bezos can make another trillion. Those in the left should be absolutely furious about this. Instead when asked to jump the merely enquire how high.
Some of us are asking what the future looks like. We’re playing chess. Others are just reacting to whatever happened in the last 3 seconds, buffeted by headlines. Those people have barely progressed to snakes and ladders.
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H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Sadly.. you’re rubbing your little cock with glee at the idea. Don’t give us this false concern bullshit. You’re actively cheering the fucking virus like it’s your fucking girlfriend.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I’m sorry, but I’m thankful you are not in charge. You have a ridiculously myopic view of life and what makes it work. The flu, while obviously not as bad as covid, kills 10s of thousands every year as well. Should we be ruining everyone finically and in terms of QOL to prevent those deaths? Or are those number acceptable to you? Should we ban smoking outright? COPD kills 3 million people a year globally.
You realize that globally people are going to starve due to the massive economic contraction we’ve experienced. It’s a big part of the reason the WHO doesn’t recommend lockdowns anymore.
Anyway, my point is, it’s easy to say “shut it all down” when you think you don’t have to pay any actual price. But there are costs to all this.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I literally spoke about what the costs are. The cost of this pandemic is economically huge, but its a price we have to pay. Whether you like it or not.
And stop with the flu comparisons, please. The flu is nothing like Covid. The death rate of Covid is far higher, the long terms affects of Covid can be far worse for those who survive. The economic cost of letting Covid run rampant is FAR higher than the cost of these lockdowns. By this constant comparison with flu you’re doing exactly what I said people are doing: trying to make out Covid isn’t all that bad, because they just don’t want to admit that they care more about their own welfare than the deaths of thousands of other people.
All I see is people constantly downplaying Covid, like it’s no worse or more affecting than a variety of societies other maladies... even when every single considered, official, independent medical and scientific organisation repeatedly says it is.
The simple fact of the matter is that our comfortable, easy, rich, soft society has been shocked out of its complacency by a very virulent, nasty disease, and a lot of people are having problems coming to terms with that. Easier to deny than accept. Easier to downplay than to make the sacrifices necessary to see it come to an end.
Roufianos
Member
There's zero point in closing shops and restaurants while keeping schools open.
That November lockdown was a fucking joke and now we have record cases and fucked businesses.
Just keep the kids at home, they have their whole lives ahead of them to make it up. Boris is in denial about how big of a role schools play in spreading this.
That November lockdown was a fucking joke and now we have record cases and fucked businesses.
Just keep the kids at home, they have their whole lives ahead of them to make it up. Boris is in denial about how big of a role schools play in spreading this.
DeepBreath87
Banned
It’s rich watching your talking about “soft, easy, comfortable” when you are the softest of all. “Keep me safe, fuck everyone else” is your solution. It’s easy to tell others to sacrifice. It’s a coward’s solution. It requires no cost from you personally.
You clearly don’t understand the economic costs because you’re sentencing thousands of people to famine and starvation if anyone actually listened to you.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Me safe? When the hell did I mention me? I literally said I’d rather see me lose my job than see people die! Much rather, in fact. I’m happy to suffer some financial stress and hardship (already have) if it means I’m helping to save people, if that’s what’s necessary. And that is what is necessary right now to stop this virus.
You’re projecting massively.
Serious pandemics cause economic damage. Fact. Always have, always will. That’s why we should have all made effort to suppress it better with fast, full lockdowns.
The vaccine will do the job though.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Please. Talking about what you “would” do is nothing. You’ve done nothing. It’s talk. You are demanding the world shut down to feel safe. Economic impact isn’t about money and vacations and new cars. Not for poor people. It’s about food and shelter and heat in the winter. You clearly don’t understand that because what you would do sentences them to destitution. So spare me the talk of what you “would” sacrifice and consider what doing what you’re talking about would do to literally billions of poor people throughout the world, including millions inside the US.
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Leyasu
Banned
I don’t know. I haven’t lived in the uk for over 12 years
prag16
Banned
But we're not "saving tens of millions of lives". You or I don't know an exact amount, but it's likely MUCH smaller than that, and I've never ever heard an estimate nearly that high. Again, where is your line, and how do you know for sure we're on the plus side of your line with what's being done now?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
If only you exhibited so much concern for all the people vulnerable to serious Covid disease...
Which - in case this wasn’t clear enough already - is more people than your theoretical and unsubstantiated mass destitution would affect.
You’re essentially stating we should ignore the safety of people from a real and present danger, to protect others from a theoretical danger in the future.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Models based on evidence of the disease’s transmission and virulence suggest that Covid would have killed 40 million in 2020 with no precautions taken.
DeepBreath87
Banned
See. There it is. “Don’t think about the future, I’m scared now.” You being completely myopic. You need to think harder and read more.
That’s the cost of what you want to do. Hundreds of millions of deaths. But do go on about what you “would” sacrifice.
nush
Member
FunkMiller
Gold Member
See. There it is. “Don’t think about the future, I’m scared now.” You being completely myopic. You need to think harder and read more.
That’s the cost of what you want to do. Hundreds of millions of deaths. But do go on about what you “would” sacrifice.
From same article:
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director-General of the World Health Organization (WHO), speaking via video-teleconference from Geneva, said that although the unprecedented crisis has strained the very fabric of multilateralism, it has also demonstrated the United Nations capabilities. Working closely with other major United Nations organizations, the WHO has provided personal protection equipment to 179 countries and territories. “The pandemic is what humanity is capable of at its best and worst,” he said, but with 65 million people infected and 1.5 million deaths worldwide, responses involving solidarity and sacrifice show the virus can be tamed and stopped, while where there is self-interest, the virus thrives and spreads.
In case you don’t get it, “We shouldn’t lockdown to save the elderly and vulnerable, because it might hurt me economically” is exhibiting self interest.
You’ve literally quoted an article at me that highlights the need for effective precautions like lockdowns to stop the virus, and only by doing this can all that starvation be avoided.
prag16
Banned
Bullshit. You attending the Neil Ferguson school of bullshit modeling?
DeepBreath87
Banned
That’s what the WHO thinks about lockdowns.
“Not sustainable”. So how long were talking about locking down again?
Again. Your model showed 40 million theoretical covid deaths. My model shows 100s of millions of starvation deaths.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
No. They’re not permanently sustainable... which is why it’s so great we have vaccines now. They are the only safe way out of this for all of us. Just accept that, eh? In the meantime, we should rightly continue with lockdown measures.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Nah. I’m at the gym now. Have a good day.
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