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Mass Effect 2 |OT|
- Thread starter Skilotonn
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Speaking of funneling effort in the right direction, I understand that some people enjoy reading all the planet description and all the other smaller detail stuff, but I would prefer to have less of that stuff if they could have a bit more party banter and interaction between squad members. Not sure how expensive it is to have the writers write a few more lines for each characters and have the VAs record that extra dialog.revolverjgw said:
kitzkozan said:
I see your point but i still agree with Ysidhimi. I found in ME1 that approaching combat with an action RPG mentality made not only the battles easier but also the gameplay way more enjoyable that treating the game as a shooter. By action RPG approach I mean managing your posse's weapons, ammo, armor, augmentations, powers, etc.
As much as it's true that shooting controls were improved a lot in ME2, also a lot of this strategic elements of combat were removed from ME2. And the shooting didn't improve enough for the trade off to be positive for those who liked the strategic combat elements on ME1.
For those who didn't like them, I understand that the trade off was a positive one though.
Buttonbasher
Member
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Red Blaster said:
Exactly!
No empty planets! Oh, but have fun scanning for hours.
No more simon says to unlock stuff! Oh, but have fun playing Memory instead!
No more thousands of pieces of useless gear! Here's three fucking choices instead!
A whole universe to explore! But only a couple of actual cities!
Fuck you free commerce, mine for your weapons!
No more overheating after 2 shots! Enjoy reloading instead!
Buttonbasher said:
Paging Agent Dunham.
gregor7777
Banned
What are you comparing against here? ME1 had exactly one hub city.
Agreed.
I <3 Memes
Member
Buttonbasher said:
It's like a sexy Quato.
Confidence Man
Member
I <3 Memes said:
The RPG system isn't even close to being the same. It really is a completely different game in that respect - a worse one.
Gunplay and powers better? I don't even know how you qualify that. The cover system is clunkier, thermal clip ammo system is a nuisance, thrown grenades and all their unique effects were removed, power-focused classes get screwed with global cooldowns and biotic blocking shields/armor, companions have far fewer abilities to use, AI is still horrible, and they even removed crouching for better accuracy.
Confidence Man
Member
I'm just getting warmed up, too.
gregor7777
Banned
The cover system is clunkier? Than ME1? Did we play the same game? Have you gone back to it since ME2? I don't think we can even have an intelligent conversation on this topic.
Less of a nuisance than cooldowns? I suppose this is subjective, but really? Cooldowns?
I'll take Heavy weapons, which have better effects and serve exactly the same purpose.
Considering only this aspect, and not considering the package as a whole (which is nonsensical IMO), I agree.
revolverjgw
Member
I <3 Memes said:
Even though I enjoyed a lot of the side missions in ME1, I did burn myself out on them. But don't you think ME2 should have had at least two or three main missions set outdoors on detailed and fleshed-out alien planets? There's small bits of actual exploration, like that cool wreckage site with the feral wackos, but even then that area is just a very small path you can't veer off of. Where's the exploration and sense of mystery? I miss actually having to interact with and experience the surface of planets like Novera and Virmire. And to a lesser extent, the side mission excursions. ME2 felt like a basic squad-based shooter set in warehouses of waist-high boxes, except you arrive at these killing arenas by clicking on a map.
Whoever said it was like Deus Ex- Invisible War is kind of right. That's what the settlement areas feel like, there's no sense of "being there" when the huuuuuuge Citadel is just a tiny series of hallways. Of course this game is a lot better than DX-IW, but it shares some of the same disappointing corner cutting.
(even the ammo system is exactly like Invisible War's :lol )
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Chinner said:
No way, not even close. If anything, the actual mechanic was a wash, but I hated scrounging around for ammo after every fight, having random piles of it laying about in absurd places and these alien insect creatures dropping the "universal" clips.
On the other hand, the people complaining that the RPG stuff was too toned down, I do disagree with that. Your choices in ME2 had immediate and permanent consequences.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
As someone who has finished the game twice (same decisions unfortunately), I will say that I'm not at all surprised that the backlash has started.
I don't think this is as shit as GTA4, which people declared to be THE BEST GAME EVAR (OSCAR WORTHY) before coming back to reality, but there are a lot of small problems that just make the game less than perfect.
I just wonder what they'll end up doing for ME3. At this point, they might as well drop all pretense of designing an RPG and just make it a shooter with a great story. That way, they can focus on designing levels that are more interesting than just a series of crates that you can take cover behind strewn across several long corridors that are punctuated by arenas. They can go for the set pieces that CoD and Gears are famous for.
I don't think this is as shit as GTA4, which people declared to be THE BEST GAME EVAR (OSCAR WORTHY) before coming back to reality, but there are a lot of small problems that just make the game less than perfect.
I just wonder what they'll end up doing for ME3. At this point, they might as well drop all pretense of designing an RPG and just make it a shooter with a great story. That way, they can focus on designing levels that are more interesting than just a series of crates that you can take cover behind strewn across several long corridors that are punctuated by arenas. They can go for the set pieces that CoD and Gears are famous for.
Has anyone
.
managed to fit in two loyalty quests - for me it'd be Tali and Legion - before the crew abduction? I'm stuck right before the IFF mission and I can't seem to activate Tali's loyalty quest. I've finished every single assignment - stupid decision in retrospect. Thanks!
The only thing I agree with here is the global cooldown issue. I think it's a cool concept, but really cuts an adept's usefulness on higher difficulties. I wouldn't have a problem with it if recharging didn't take quite so long, even if times were cut just a bit more by upgrading passive abilities. I spent a whole lot of time just waiting around to recharge on insanity.Confidence Man said:
Pretense of an RPG? Whaaa? Surely you can't deny that, despite the reduction in stat building, the combat still changes dramatically depending on what choices you make about your abilities. It's still there, there's just less of it. Not to mention the dialogue system and moral alignment.firehawk12 said:
charlequin
Banned
Confidence Man said:
I don't know how you can fail to qualify the first one. The gunplay in the first game serves two masters badly: TPS aiming with stat-based dicerolls. That means that the gun combat has a fundamental disconnect with your actual aiming. In ME2 you have a variety of different guns that are sidegrades to one another, each with their own tactical benefits; they all rely on your actual aim to hit (which eliminates the disconnect between firing and hitting that's quite prevalent in ME1) and they have a set of distinct possible "ammo" upgrades available to further distinguish their effects. In ME2 I constantly changed guns and ammo powers based on my tactical situation and found a satisfying depth in terms of shooting people that was almost entirely lacking in ME1, where there was absolutely no reason to ever switch guns and I relied almost entirely on powers to mix things up.
On the second issue, it's not so much that powers-using classes got screwed, IMO, just that the Vanguard design is fucking shitty. There are lots of powers in the game that bust defenses and classes that have access to those now have good tactical reasons to switch up which powers they use, but Vs have three different powers that all only work against red so they rock at killing Husks and suck against everything else. My wife's on her second playthrough with a Sentinel and she's totally set.
ME2 does carry over the ME1 problem that it's like 10x more fun in the second half when you've unlocked upgrades and powers, though.
Hawk269
Member
T Ghost said:
Good comeback man...lol...love it when people take a well written comment and reply with a few words....
Well..to your original post, yes it does get better. I felt the same way you did at first, but after about 10 hours or so, I was really loving it. If it were up to me, I would of maintained some of the more basic RPG elements. Like...
1. Ability to buy/sell resources
2. Ability to buy/sell weopons (more on the selling).
3. Loot..they did not have to go ME1 levels, but 20 diff. armors would of been nice, with the ability to add the upgrades (which you can do in ME2). I guess just more variety.
4. More control of assigning points to your character...ie...more specialtys
5. Exp. points as you play..this "LEVEL COMPLETE"..."STAGE COMPLETE" is SO OUT OF PLACE.
6. Ability to change up gear during a level and even level up during a level.
Like I said, they dont have to go ME1 levels of RPG's stats, armors, bullet types..but if they could of found a happy medium it would of been better for me...but in the end, ME2 is one of the best games i have played and while I miss alot of stuff...even the MAKO...ME2 is still great.
For me, if I had to choose which one was better..I think I would lean towards ME1 as of right now. If they can blend what they did in ME1 & ME2 for the final chapter, then they wil have the game of the "ALL TIME".
Hawk269
Member
WanderingWind said:
lol..good one....like I just said....and it seems you agree....they need to balance ME1 and ME2 when they make ME3. Instead of thousands of pieces of useless gear, and 3 choices in ME2, how about let's say 100 pieces of gear. Not too over the top like ME1, more variety than ME2.
Buttonbasher
Member
That's totally it! :lolsoldat7 said:
I pretty much did the loyalty quests as soon as I could because I didn't trust bioware to put an obvious "this is your last chance" failsafe in there.ili0926 said:
I think though that you will be fine, because there is an opportunity to do stuff before going to the omega relay. I'm pretty sure, but again I pretty much saved the entire story missions for the end of the game.
I think the Illusive Man is a pretty dope character, but that could be because I read Ascension and he is a bit more fleshed out in that book.
Use the Cain as often as possible. Two hits and he's already half dead. Harbingers drop heavy weapon ammo.Raxus said:
I didn't worry about the Collector troops myself. Let my teammates handle them. Any stragglers were killed when the reaper shot his mouth off. Once or twice a harbinger got too close for comfort, so I had to take him out myself, but that actually provided the benefit of the aforementioned heavy weapon ammo.
Confidence Man
Member
gregor7777 said:
Snap-to cover was perfectly serviceable, there was no need to add a button/key press to enter cover. Many times I find the command doesn't take, and I stand there mashing the key while watching that red health bar deplete. On top of that you have the added frames of animation which, while making it look nicer, it just doesn't feel as quick.
Again, the cooldown system was perfectly serviceable. You were never stuck not being able to use your primary weapon unless it was hit with a sabotage, and you didn't have to run around to pick up ammo. Granted this will depend on the difficulty you're playing on, but even on Hardcore I found my soldier running out of AR ammo more times than I'd like.
But you can't change them on the fly, as you could with grenade mods, and you don't have as many kinds of effects (no chemical/poison HW that I know of). You could lay traps with them since they were timed, hit enemies behind cover, and they didn't take up a huge swath of your upper-back, which is probably the thing I find most offensive about them.
Confidence Man
Member
charlequin said:
I really didn't feel that disconnect at all. I thought it felt pretty much like any TPS right from the start. It certainly wasn't anywhere near something like Fallout 3.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I judge whether a game is "dumbed down" or not by its actual depth, not its surface complexity. By that standard ME2 comes out well in comparison to ME1. I can understand missing the general approach ME1 took, but I definitely can't understand preferring ME1's actual execution to ME2's.
Anyways, now that Bioware has some game balance and solid combat fundamentals in place, I'd expect them to start adding back more involved stat stuff back in for ME3.
Anyways, now that Bioware has some game balance and solid combat fundamentals in place, I'd expect them to start adding back more involved stat stuff back in for ME3.
MasterTeacher
Banned
Who is the guy who that does all Codex voice overs? His voice sounds so familiar and I can't put my finger on it.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
I want to pick up the game. Do I need to play the original to understand the story in the sequel?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
CurseoftheGods said:
Yes, absolutely. You have to play the first one. No exceptions! NEIN!
Hawk269
Member
MasterTeacher said:
It sounds familiar because he did the ones in ME1 as well...
lol..sorry..just being a smartass. Not sure who it is...I do notice that his voice is much more pronounced in ME1 when it is a codex from ME1 while playing ME2. they did not re-record old codex's from ME1, but when you hear a ME2 codex, it it really not as strong. Weird.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
ili0926 said:
I've read that it can glitch and some people have managed to get two missions done before seeing that event. But that just seems to be heresay at the moment.
MasterTeacher
Banned
Hawk269 said:
LOL I never played ME1 but his voice in on A&E.. and some crime shows.
I <3 Memes
Member
How is it different? ME1 had incremental improvements in between 4 major unlocks. ME2 simply rolls all of the minor incremental improvements into 4 levels, with the 4th level being a "master" unlock allowing the power to be taken in 1 of 2 different directions. Every level unlock certainly feels more powerful than the one before. The only thing eliminated in ME2 are the incremental upgrades to the powers.
Well I know how to qualify it so let my do it for you. Simply put the gunplay in ME1 was probably the worst in all of gaming. Not sure how you could miss seeing that. I mean it was the worst in all of gaming. Please name a game with worse gunplay than ME1. The guns in ME1 dont look or feel at all like they are firing projectiles, they look like they are firing an animation. The only weapon in ME1 that behaved like it should have was the sniper rifle.
: |
The cover system in ME1 was the worst in all of gaming. I do love ME1 and I don't mean to sound too harsh against the people who made the game, but I have no idea how any human being could possibly think a cover system that works by sucking you against any wall you walk next to was a good idea. Let alone an entire company of people who didn't realize that they were making the worst cover system ever. I would rather have had no cover system rather then have the one that was in ME1.
Overheating weapons is a nuisance. They are both nuisances but I prefer ME2 system. Essentially they both serve the same purpose. What makes ME2 system better, IMO, is that it doesn't force you to switch weapons or stop fighting and do nothing until the weapon cools down. Overheating weapons wasn't a huge problem for me like ME1's worst cover system ever, I just feel life ME2's solution is more elegant and doesn't bog the combat the way ME1's system does.
They were never thrown. It was always called a grenade launcher, just without any launcher you could see. The new heavy weapons are obviously more enjoyable. I doubt anyone agrees with you that ME1's "frisbee throwing" was better.
Also, by my count there are 5 different heavy weapons. I may have missed one though. One of them is a nuke. A freaking nuke man. How do they not have unique effects now?
Global cooldowns are a bit of a pain in the beginning of the game, but after upgrades you can use a biotic ability and have it ready to use again a second later. Toward the end of the game using throw against weaker enemies felt like cheating. Throw - enemy flies off in to the distance, throw - enemy flies off into the distance, throw - enemy flies off into the distance. It happens as fast as you just read it.
There are counters to biotic shields. That's just game balance.
Only by 1 or 2. And since you can now bind your sqadmates abilities to your real-time attack menu the game would be far too unbalanced if your squad mates had more abilities. How balanced could a game by if you had access to every single ability and power in the game at once?
You could have done that before in ME1 but only if you paused the action to choose which ability you wanted your teammate to use. If you wanted to go that far in order to have every ability in the game available to you then I guess you could have. It's overpowering enough as it is though for you to be able to press 1 on your keyboard to use Jakob's pull then hit 2 on your keyboard to use your own throw.
AI isn't the best around but it is far better than ME1. As soon as I walked in a room in ME1 I knew exactly what all of the enemies were going to do. How could you like that more than ME2's AI?
Best new trick is that they love to use heavy weapons on you every time you pop up from cover so that enemies with lighter weapons can get closer to you.
It's still not perfect, but the only RPG around that does gunplay/combat better is Stalker.
I'm not sure why this matters. Wouldn't have bother me if they would have left it, but I don't miss it. Enemies seem more aggressive now so maybe I wouldn't be so pleased with crouching when I got caught in a crouch by a rushing enemy.
BrassMonkey1010
Member
Ysiadmihi said:
Thank god the Mako is gone. Those parts of the first game sucked.
And how is this just a mediocre shooter? I would say it controls as tight and fluid as Gears of War2, GRAW2, and Socom Confrontation if not better then these games. What third person games are better shooters this gen?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
No_Style said:
Yeah, I guess it's not total backlash, but the new game smell has worn off.
When I was new to GAF, I was surprised that people could hate Super Mario Galaxy, but then someone explained the backlash timeline to me and it all made sense.
Hell, with this game, I'm a victim of it myself. I loved this game when I was first playing it - I even excused some of the bugs and poor design that comes out when you play the game on Insanity - but now on my second playthrough, all the small problems with the gameplay and the writing seem to stand out.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
BrassMonkey1010 said:
Whoa, let's not get crazy now. The shooting and cover system were servicable in ME2. Nowhere as good as a dedicated shooter though. Just fine for an RPG, though.
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