-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mass Effect 2 |OT|
- Thread starter Skilotonn
- Start date
- Status
EmCeeGramr
Member
Anso said:
cut dialog in the game files *spoilers*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtVNqxjiH0Y#t=8m0s
bioware: gay aliens!?!? ewwwwwwwwww! we had enough of that in the first game!!! *goes back to designing garrus the space dinosaur's sex jokes*
Anarchistry
Member
So, apparently the word Asari is japanese slang for
:lol
vagina?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Anarchistry said:
Specifically the
Vagina
gregor7777
Banned
Ysiadmihi said:
Far, far better combat control. ME1's combat is painfully clunky by comparison. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bioware called in some help with streamlining their TP combat system.
Animation. It's a totally different game when it comes to animation, both in combat and in dialog. It's not perfect, but again, it shames the first game.
Content. Sooo much more content, from character interaction to the layout and design of the levels.
Attention to detail. This kind of goes with the improvement in content, but the world is just more alive. Have we forgotten already all the complaints about how dead the Citadel always felt?
This view completely writes off everything the game excels at, and I just don't understand it.
Did some of you guys really play ME for the poor RPG systems alone? I get the complaints in that department, and to a point I share them, but the massive improvements in the story, atmosphere and character interaction areas of the game I think most ME fans wanted more than make up for the losses.
It's not exactly the game I wanted either, but man, to condemn it utterly for the loss of some very poorly implemented systems from the first game seems unfair.
you know, im at the end of my 2nd playthrough, and there are basically two flaws i see:
1.) There are too many characters. The overall gamelenght is already great, took me 30 hours on my first run, and im usually someone who is called "rusher" by other people. But: Because of the big number of characters you´re recruiting, there isnt spent enough time for each of those. Let me tell you, Bioware, that i love all the recruits. They´re all unique and charismatic...but one
-mission per character isnt exactly enough fleshing out.
In ME1, you had only 5 characters, and because of all the elevators, it was motivating to only use the same 2 characters for one playthough. also, the characters had sidequests relating to them that were only hinted at. A 30 hour game probably doesnt need more content anymore (well, personally i´d love to play 100 hours), therefore, the fault is not the lack of missions, but the amount of characters these missions are split into.
2.) There really need to be bonusses other than just paragon and renegade. give me a "fat grey"-speech option that´s middle ground in terms of behavior. And if i manage to stay within this grey-meter, Im a "hero" or whatever you would call this third status.
Also, split the speech-options into 5 equals. We already have kind of 4: Paragon, Renegade, and "hardcore" Renegade and "hardcore" Paragon. Make the action-choices a common thing (sometimes they´re useful, other times not, right now, they´re like a win-option) and turn the paragon/renegade-speech options into "grey/paragon" and "grey/renegade", basically, "grey/paragon" would be "snarky, not evil", whereas "hardcore renegade" would equal "complete asshole".
1.) There are too many characters. The overall gamelenght is already great, took me 30 hours on my first run, and im usually someone who is called "rusher" by other people. But: Because of the big number of characters you´re recruiting, there isnt spent enough time for each of those. Let me tell you, Bioware, that i love all the recruits. They´re all unique and charismatic...but one
loyalty
In ME1, you had only 5 characters, and because of all the elevators, it was motivating to only use the same 2 characters for one playthough. also, the characters had sidequests relating to them that were only hinted at. A 30 hour game probably doesnt need more content anymore (well, personally i´d love to play 100 hours), therefore, the fault is not the lack of missions, but the amount of characters these missions are split into.
2.) There really need to be bonusses other than just paragon and renegade. give me a "fat grey"-speech option that´s middle ground in terms of behavior. And if i manage to stay within this grey-meter, Im a "hero" or whatever you would call this third status.
Also, split the speech-options into 5 equals. We already have kind of 4: Paragon, Renegade, and "hardcore" Renegade and "hardcore" Paragon. Make the action-choices a common thing (sometimes they´re useful, other times not, right now, they´re like a win-option) and turn the paragon/renegade-speech options into "grey/paragon" and "grey/renegade", basically, "grey/paragon" would be "snarky, not evil", whereas "hardcore renegade" would equal "complete asshole".
gregor7777 said:
It was clunky, but that doesn't mean ME2's stripped down combat is better. After I beat ME2 I decided to finish my renegade playthrough in ME1 and enjoyed the combat system much more.
gregor7777 said:
I'm just not seeing this one. I thought the levels were way too short. Everytime I got to the boss in a loyalty mission or something I couldn't believe how fast it ended.
gregor7777 said:
The new cities or stripped down Citadel didn't feel any more alive to me than the old Citadel. I was really disappointed in how little you were able to explore each one.
gregor7777 said:
I know this is an overused complaint, but if story, atmosphere and characters is all a game has going for it, then it's not a very good game. Granted, I finished the game and will probably finish it at least a second time for these reasons but it doesn't excuse how shallow the gameplay itself feels.
kai3345 said:
Never once happen to me unless I've pressed X on the gamepad, that button skips dialog. I know for a fact the audio is a bit iffy though, some parts that should have music doesn't and vice versa (composer was pretty pissed when his music got cut off suddenly by mistake :lol ). Maybe that's true for dialog too.
is it because you use vanguards or adepts in ME1? Is that the sole reason you enjoyed ME1 more?Ysiadmihi said:
:lol :lol
Seriously though, your complaints about the combat shows how disillusioned you are about combat in ME1 - it's boring, crap, tedious and a chore.
Probably because there's no alternate path to the routes he can go to.Crunched said:
It's an interactive movie pretty much.
â Narayan
Member
Thank fucking god.Dax01 said:
I disagree. I feel as though ME2 is an improvement in every way.Red Blaster said:
You could say the same about the majority of the game :lolArde5643 said:
Plus it's not like it's hard to find the right path with
EDI lighting up the floor for you
Absolutely.
Won said:
...how isn't it stripped down?
Arde5643 said:
I felt the same way about ME2's combat, especially towards the end.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ME1's combat was great - it wasn't, but just because ME2's happens to control better doesn't mean it's suddenly amazing. It's mediocre, like the first's, but with way less RPG elements to spice it up or hide it's flaws.
The removal of so many things would be understandable if there was a vast improvement in the shooting and enemy AI, but there wasn't. Even on Insanity I can stay behind cover in most battles, walk away and take a piss and not have a single scratch unless a random Krogan shows up.
Red Blaster
Member
No crime in being wrong.
Wow... some people actually liked the exploration segments in ME1? :lol .. well, if you liked any part of ME1 where you were actually playing the game, it still blows my mind.
I'm pretty bummed out about ME2 not being connected to Bioware Social Network like DA:O, would've been nice to upload your character and share stuff. Also hope they add in a screenshot functionality and mouse scroll in a next patch.
I'm pretty bummed out about ME2 not being connected to Bioware Social Network like DA:O, would've been nice to upload your character and share stuff. Also hope they add in a screenshot functionality and mouse scroll in a next patch.
gregor7777 said:
I disagree strongly on several points. The story in ME2 is TERRIBLE. The characters are better, but
if you look at how it advances the main plotline of the ME universe, you're basically back where you were at the end of ME1, except with a shiny new Normandy. I think if you took just the core story stuff (not the recruiting or loyalty), that the game would be about 3 hours long. And I understand that the recruiting and loyalty IS the main story of the game, but considering the current galactic circumstances, it feels like running in place.
But even if the characters are better, there's so much less interaction with them that it's funny. I'd like the game 100x better if there were just some interparty interaction like in Dragon Age or even in the elevator scenes in ME1.
It's been said a bunch before, but ME2 really feels like a whole bunch of DLC packages put together.
As for the Mako, it helped give me a sense of the scale of the universe. In ME2, I hit a system, spend 10 minutes mining it, and I'm gone. If it didn't have a N7 mission, it's a distant memory. With the Mako, it may have gotten somewhat repetitive, but it gave me a sense of real exploring. It gave planets character beyond simply "Oh, wow! I found one withe eezo!"
In terms of the looks, the animation, the shooter mechanics, etc., God, yes, ME2 blows ME1 out of the water. I certainly wouldn't mourn the loss of the inventory system if they had just offered more weapon options (maybe 5 or 6 in each weapon class?) and more armor pieces. Hell, I love that I can customize the appearance of my armor, because there were certainly some butt-ugly armors in the first game.
It also doesn't help that once the adrenaline rush of "CAN I KEEP EVERYONE ALIVE" wears off, you realize just how weak the endgame of ME2 is compared to ME1. ME1's endgame was just epic. You had the escape off the Citadel leading to Ilos, then immediately punching into the Citadel finale. It was long, it was great. It contained a lot of story revelations and kept things moving. ME2's endgame is nowhere near that scale.
Then there's the end credits song. ME1 leaves you with this great feeling of accomplishment and badassery. ME2 leaves you with a sense of relief that quickly dissolves into "That's it?"
Then there's the end credits song. ME1 leaves you with this great feeling of accomplishment and badassery. ME2 leaves you with a sense of relief that quickly dissolves into "That's it?"
When you put all that together, though, I can't help but feel like ME1 is the preferred game for me. I hope they pull back a little and inject more story into ME3.
Dax01 said:
I was hoping nobody'd catch that in the 30 seconds I took to fix it. Oh well. I don't think there's anything there too damning, but for those who read something they shouldn't have, I apologize.
The Librarian
Banned
Patryn = spoiler tag MEGA FAIL.
Best game I've played so far this generation. Deals with pretty much every flaw the first game had and even though that creates several new flaws it makes for a much more streamlined and simply better experience.
The wait for ME3 will be long, let's hope the DLC will be good.
The wait for ME3 will be long, let's hope the DLC will be good.
Ysiadmihi said:
I agree with most of what your saying, its funny if SE were to remove loot, equipment, and other RPG elements from Dragon Quest everyone would be pissed. But you remove it from ME and its A OK. ME2 felt like a 3rd person shooter with a dialog tree to me, but hopefully they will add more "RPG" into ME3. Because as it currently stands its not really that great of a 3rd person shooter due to the subpar AI and lack of depth in the combat system but those flaws were also in ME like you said.
charlequin
Banned
Cep said:
I
picked sniper rifle as my upgrade as a Vanguard
I actually disagree with the assertion some people have made in this thread that ammo was necessary to get people to switch weapons because I do it all the time even without running out. The SMG tears through synthetics, the Carnifex can take down Harbinger in a single shot, and sniper rifle is fantastic at dealing with baddies at range. I almost wish there was a way to bind three weapons to quick-change instead of two. (Compare ME1, where I played the first half of the game with my pistol, got the achievement, switched weapons a single time, and played the second half of the game with the shotgun.)
Confidence Man said:
That was going to happen no matter what. They spent most of the hype period for ME2 talking about how they'd fucked up in ME1.
I'm closer to your position about the streamlining than I am to Narayan's "every part of the game is an improvement" position, but it's still hard to take this comparison seriously. ME2 is a very good game that suffers from some conceptual problems, while DX2 is wet poop in a sack.
Ysiadmihi said:
The combat is significantly better. The encounter design is hugely improved, with both the environments and the distribution of enemies being better throughout the game (as opposed to the three or four interesting setpieces surrounded by rote or irritatingly-designed fights in ME1.) The defense system makes using different weapons worthwhile, which is a huge improvement IMO.
There are very few RPG elements from the first ME that were removed here but which I miss in isolation -- the point-by-point skill system and equippable weapon upgrades, but almost nothing else. Many of these systems were mishandled or even actively terrible in the first game. Playing ME1, the number of instances where the game deeply frustrated me was quite high -- whether it was spending twenty minutes juggling pointless items in my "inventory" or dying on a Mako mission because my gun couldn't shoot downwards.
Bioware made a huge conceptual mistake in choosing the same approach ("get rid of it") for all of them -- especially when some of those mechanics really weren't broken -- because it significantly reduces the feeling of scope and freedom in the game, but in the process they did produce a game that has a relatively smooth interface and is not punctuated by moments of extreme frustration. That counts for a lot and I'm not going to downplay my enjoyment of ME2 as a game (which was extremely high) just because I'm not entirely satisfied with it as the sequel to ME1.
eznark said:
No, it's awesome!
"Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit!"
It's funny, because the vast majority of complaints I've seen about ME2 are things I consider improvements: streamlined combat/stat system, elimination of random loot, less empty planet exploration, and an emphasis on character interaction instead of galactic gravitas. It is an overwhelmingly superior game, and 99% of the criticisms leveled against it have left me shaking my head.
The fact that there's a haters brigade forming for mass effect 2 just proves to me that no matter how godly a game may be there will ALWAYS be a handful of people that going to dislike it for no good reason.
Any problems this game has are nothing more then nitpicks really, letting them get to you to such a degree that you consider this a bad game or a bad sequel even comes across to me as nothing but troll territory. I'm sure this haters brigade will build up in the next month or 2 as more people buy and finish the game , it's a top selling title and it's gotten lots of well-earned praise , so I suppose it's only natural that some people would hate it out spite. This is the internet afterall, and it's also NEOGAF DUUDE.
I'm not quite finished yet myself , I have a handful of loyalty quests and the entire endgame quest to complete still. 20+ hours have been invested into it so far on my end. Despite not quite being done with it yet, I can say with confidence that this game IS superior to the first one in every way that a game can improve on its most important aspect- how much fun am I having with it? . All the missing stuff amounted to wasting time in menu's, sorting 100's of pieces of equipment you didn't need, driving around repetitive landscapes and walking through repetitive dungeons. Even the 1 hacking minigame the first one had was silly, the hacking in ME2 actually feels like you are rewiring or hacking into something, finding bits of code, etc.
The only thing I don't actually care for in 2 ? - mining, it's boring. It should be something where you can send a bunch of probes down to a planet and leave them their, then you get messages saying "probe on planet buttsmell found 2500 unobtanium". Scanning through the planet is time consuming, reminds me of the forced padding that wind waker had when you had to find 5000 rupees to by 9 triforce charts and then go dig them all up.
But yeah, basically mining would be no problem if you could scan a planets resources in 10 seconds (like, all the hotspots just showed up on the grid and you merely had to launch probes there) or you could send probes without scanning and they'd just find stuff for you.
Any problems this game has are nothing more then nitpicks really, letting them get to you to such a degree that you consider this a bad game or a bad sequel even comes across to me as nothing but troll territory. I'm sure this haters brigade will build up in the next month or 2 as more people buy and finish the game , it's a top selling title and it's gotten lots of well-earned praise , so I suppose it's only natural that some people would hate it out spite. This is the internet afterall, and it's also NEOGAF DUUDE.
I'm not quite finished yet myself , I have a handful of loyalty quests and the entire endgame quest to complete still. 20+ hours have been invested into it so far on my end. Despite not quite being done with it yet, I can say with confidence that this game IS superior to the first one in every way that a game can improve on its most important aspect- how much fun am I having with it? . All the missing stuff amounted to wasting time in menu's, sorting 100's of pieces of equipment you didn't need, driving around repetitive landscapes and walking through repetitive dungeons. Even the 1 hacking minigame the first one had was silly, the hacking in ME2 actually feels like you are rewiring or hacking into something, finding bits of code, etc.
The only thing I don't actually care for in 2 ? - mining, it's boring. It should be something where you can send a bunch of probes down to a planet and leave them their, then you get messages saying "probe on planet buttsmell found 2500 unobtanium". Scanning through the planet is time consuming, reminds me of the forced padding that wind waker had when you had to find 5000 rupees to by 9 triforce charts and then go dig them all up.
But yeah, basically mining would be no problem if you could scan a planets resources in 10 seconds (like, all the hotspots just showed up on the grid and you merely had to launch probes there) or you could send probes without scanning and they'd just find stuff for you.
charlequin
Banned
Patryn said:
I don't agree with this at all.
Everyone talking shit about it on here had me expecting some kind of terrible, underwhelming endgame, so I was very pleasantly surprised. Besides the "lolwut" at the final boss' first appearance, I thought it was fantastic -- amazing visual design of the space area beyond the relay, great use of cutscenes, to justify actually needing those stupid upgrades I mined those stupid planets to buy, and an extremely enjoyable final area to fight through. I felt like they sold it very well.
Ditto. I died like three fucking times: twice I took the wrong turn on the second floor, since the first time I just turned and automagically got a death animation for whatever reason. The second time I saw the collector but it was too late, only then figuring to go the other way. It's a good idea, but feel flat hard.eznark said:
charlequin
Banned
Crunched said:
ME1 was very clearly an RPG with shooter elements, and at least half of its RPG mechanics were half-baked, poorly thought-out, or hobbled by terrible user-interface decisions. That caused a great deal of frustration at the time, but it also produced a lot of people who enjoyed the elements that were strong in the game and could imagine how fantastic an RPG could be that improved the broken elements while retaining the strong elements.
ME2 eliminated almost every broken and half-assed mechanic in the first game while only really introducing one new one (the mining), so overall you spend much less of the game dealing with idiotic broken shit and much more talking to and killing guys. That makes it a much smoother game that's, for many people, going to be a lot more enjoyable to play on a moment to moment basis, but it's very much not that ideal sequel to ME1 that many people (myself certainly included) imagined. That disconnect is what you're seeing -- whether ME2 is good as a standalone game is a lot less important to many people than whether it delivers the game they actually wanted when they signed on for ME1 in the first place.
I see what you mean about eliminating instead of refining broken elements, but I still disagree. I think all the changes made have done nothing but serve the presentation, and the core game has benefited tremendously because of it.charlequin said:
I can't say that you're wrong for wanting it another way, but I'm extremely happy with the way it turned out and can't imagine ever going back to ME1.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Crunched said:
But this has more to do with your individual proclivities than the game itself. There are those with differing proclivities. It's just that your camp happens to have far more paying customers so BioWare satiated them instead of the hardcore stats RPG crowd.
I finished the first game for the first time this week. 20 hours 75% paragon achievement unlocked. Even with all the flaws (both in design and execution) I loved the game to death.
Now I just started ME2, played the first mission and sincerely I didn't like. The turn that the story took is absurdely cheesy, that dude on the chair smoking is a plain stupid and cliché character and the game had so much stripped to become more "accessible" that it doesn't feel like the action RPG that the first was.
I know that a lot of people fell in love immediately after starting ME2 but I would like to know if anyone had the same type of first impression as me?
If yes, did it get better as you play or the game always feels like a shinier dumbed down version of the first game that is really strong in cheesy and cliched characters ?
PS: I really loathe my "new crew" and my new employer...
Now I just started ME2, played the first mission and sincerely I didn't like. The turn that the story took is absurdely cheesy, that dude on the chair smoking is a plain stupid and cliché character and the game had so much stripped to become more "accessible" that it doesn't feel like the action RPG that the first was.
I know that a lot of people fell in love immediately after starting ME2 but I would like to know if anyone had the same type of first impression as me?
If yes, did it get better as you play or the game always feels like a shinier dumbed down version of the first game that is really strong in cheesy and cliched characters ?
PS: I really loathe my "new crew" and my new employer...
Of course, yeah. There are going to be stat-hungry RPG fans who wanted a different game. But ME2 seems like it's tailor made to suit me. Maybe a few years ago I would have wanted a more in-depth stat system, but at this moment in time ME2 is more or less my definition of a perfect game (technical issues aside).ThusZarathustra said:
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah, I liked the Mako and exploring planets and collecting loot. Why they couldn't just fix those elements instead of eliminating them really bothered me and made the game feel like it was missing something.
I <3 Memes
Member
Just finished the game. Anyone here who thinks that ME1 was better overall than ME2 is crazy. Sure there are a few things that ME1 did better, but not much. In the end the RPG upgrade system was really the same. Gunplay and powers are far better. I much prefer the planet scan/fully fleshed out ground missions to ME1's barren planets and structures that were all the same.
Negatives were that it felt like there were less of the actual combat parts of the game. Also every planet should not be available to scan. I know I dont have to scan every planet but since there are many more planets to scan then what is needed then it would be fine if some were just there for the lore. Buying fuel and probes feels like it is only there as a time filler.
There were also many systems that I never visited if I wasn't directed there for a mission. Maybe if I had gone there a mission would have opened up? Seems like there were more systems that had nothing to do except scan then there were gameplay areas. In ME1 almost every system had at least 1 planet to visit. Still I prefer the better designed levels in ME2 to the barren rocky terrain surface and cookie cutter indoor areas found on those planets in ME1, so if less planets to land on to fight is the price to pay for that then I'm ok with it.
What I would really like is a .wmv of the Illusive man sitting in his chair that I could use as a dreamscene desktop. I didnt see any scene in the game that would really fit the bill for it. Wish Bioware would have released something like that.
Negatives were that it felt like there were less of the actual combat parts of the game. Also every planet should not be available to scan. I know I dont have to scan every planet but since there are many more planets to scan then what is needed then it would be fine if some were just there for the lore. Buying fuel and probes feels like it is only there as a time filler.
There were also many systems that I never visited if I wasn't directed there for a mission. Maybe if I had gone there a mission would have opened up? Seems like there were more systems that had nothing to do except scan then there were gameplay areas. In ME1 almost every system had at least 1 planet to visit. Still I prefer the better designed levels in ME2 to the barren rocky terrain surface and cookie cutter indoor areas found on those planets in ME1, so if less planets to land on to fight is the price to pay for that then I'm ok with it.
What I would really like is a .wmv of the Illusive man sitting in his chair that I could use as a dreamscene desktop. I didnt see any scene in the game that would really fit the bill for it. Wish Bioware would have released something like that.
Ysiadmihi said:
It's all a matter of perspective. :lol
The rpg element of the first game didn't spice up anything for me,on the contrary.If you decided to accept them and think that they were hiding the flaws: goof for you.
Granted,enemy AI is not on par with Gears of War where enemies can throw grenade at you or will eventually rush and flank you after a while.That's more or less a given since this is what Epic games does for a living: shooters.
Would having more "rpg elements" change anything to the enemy AI? Nope,and they wouldn't add anything substantial either.If the aiming and shooting has been improved,they can move on to enemy AI for the third game.
kylej said:
You REALLY didn't understood a word of what I posted.
1st - I didn't decide anything and I didn't say I didn't like the game.
2nd - I wrote that I tought that the "smoking man" is a very cheesy and clichéd character
3rd - I asked if the cheesyness and clichedness of the characters and the dumbed down gameplay gets better with the more you play for people who didn't like this elements at first.
4th - if you liked the game from the get go, I don't want, asked or need your input anymore, I already had it dozens of pages ago. But you are still free and welcomed to express yourself at any time you want.
T Ghost said:
For what it's worth, I started off liking it quite a bit and then became disappointed when I realized the lack of depth wasn't just limited to the beginning hours of the game. That said, you'll still get some enjoyment out of the story and characters, especially since ME1's should still be fresh in your mind.
- Status