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Mass Effect 2 |OT|
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EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
WanderingWind said:
Nothing is different. A ton of people feel like that, and a ton dont. Like when people whine about the 'stripped down' stats and loot. Even with its flaws I, personally, think its a far more functional system than what was in ME1. So much so I think the new player stat system is in every single way superior.
But I also feel the overall story isnt as good, there's a missing sense of wonder and isolation, the galaxy doesnt feel as big, and too many of the quests turn into a shootout.
Both games have their pros and cons. Being 'stripped down' is not the term I would apply to the issues I have with the sequel.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Mindlog said:
That's my opinion of it, anyway. But in the end, I enjoyed both games, so I'm not really invested in the idea of arguing over which game I preferred.
EatChildren said:
That's nice, but not loving everything about a game does not constitute whining...especially since it can be easily reversed onto the "I don't like loot or stats," crowd.
Vlodril
Member
I too agree that the first one was the better of the two mainly because although they fixed some things that needed fixing i feel they focus too much on the mechanics of the game and forgot what made it memorable (at least for me). Which was the setting , the story , the atmosphere. I found the first to be more grand in scale than the second also.
Vlodril said:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all but this simply isn't true. The story is a direct follow on from ME1 as is the setting and the atmosphere is pretty much exactly the same.
Overall I do think I enjoyed playing through ME1 more than the second but I think that's more to do with how the world was fresh and new the first time around so I appreciated the little things like the Codex entries a lot more.
diamondstar
Member
It's hard for me to say which one was "better" than the other. Like mentioned they both really had pros and cons. I just don't feel like ME2 was really a natural progression from ME. I didn't feel like a military badass Spectre in ME2 like I did in ME. I also didn't really get the feeling that I was the last hope as the ME2 trailers made it out to be.
ME2 is almost a completely different game. The atmosphere is darker. The story is the same but seems like it is being told by someone else. Like a new director or writer bought the idea from someone else. I hope ME3 blends the two better.
ME2 is almost a completely different game. The atmosphere is darker. The story is the same but seems like it is being told by someone else. Like a new director or writer bought the idea from someone else. I hope ME3 blends the two better.
For me:
ME2 is a decent game with a good story if taken by itself.
As a sequel to the original it's kind of disappointing.
And ME1 had a good story with lots of potential for a good sequel if they streamlined all the features and subsystems. Instead Bioware went at it with an axe and then superglued some other game's mechanics, winding up with ME2.
I mean flavor text on guns instead of stats, really?
ME2 is a decent game with a good story if taken by itself.
As a sequel to the original it's kind of disappointing.
And ME1 had a good story with lots of potential for a good sequel if they streamlined all the features and subsystems. Instead Bioware went at it with an axe and then superglued some other game's mechanics, winding up with ME2.
I mean flavor text on guns instead of stats, really?
I replayed through the last half of Mass Effect a month or two ago. Blows compared to 2. I was spending more time converting useless shit to omni-gel which I didn't even need than I was doing anything productive.
The Mako planets can fuck right off too, why yes I would love going through 2 dozen virtually identical barren wastelands for 20 minutes a pop.
Animation's terrible, everyone leaves conversation in the exact same way which is completely jarring.
Game is ridiculously unbalanced too, since the moment you max out a couple of powers you're basically death incarnate on any difficulty. Cover has no purpose at that point since you're unkillable with immunity and other abilities on. Maxed out immunity you can turn back on before it even runs out. :lol
The main plot was decent and cinematic enough to make a person enjoy it, but it doesn't exactly hold up on multiple playthroughs. Seeing
The main plot's only 10-15 hours long anyway. Still played it 5 times though, so it does something right. Or maybe it was just the allure of carry over content into the next game when I was naive enough to think Bioware would hold true to it.
The Mako planets can fuck right off too, why yes I would love going through 2 dozen virtually identical barren wastelands for 20 minutes a pop.
Animation's terrible, everyone leaves conversation in the exact same way which is completely jarring.
Game is ridiculously unbalanced too, since the moment you max out a couple of powers you're basically death incarnate on any difficulty. Cover has no purpose at that point since you're unkillable with immunity and other abilities on. Maxed out immunity you can turn back on before it even runs out. :lol
The main plot was decent and cinematic enough to make a person enjoy it, but it doesn't exactly hold up on multiple playthroughs. Seeing
Saren blow his brains out after essentially the exact same conversation you had on Virmire gets a little jarring after a while. Or any of the "Mind control?", "Mind control!", "Mind control!?" nonsense that's in every main mission.
One of the biggest things I miss going from ME1 > ME2 is the Presidium and Wards. If they added an updated version with Citadel Tower, Markets, Flux, and maybe a few other destroyed areas undergoing reconstruction with some dialogue options, that'd be really cool. I was dissapointed the the Presidium in ME2 was just one room.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Virmire and the ending of ME1 shows that they put a lot more thought into integrating their morality system into the gameplay and the narrative... something they could only achieve with crew conflicts here. Needless to say, it's a step down in terms of scale.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Gestahl said:
...Yeah, that's not how that works.:lol
I can't really say much since I just begun Mass Effect 2.
I played a bit more, and I honestly don't think it's better in every way. The interface is better, the graphics are better, the game is way more polished and smooth, the combat is superior.
On the other hand, so far the game feels a little dumbed down. There's streamlined and too streamlined. I think they should improve on the Mako's exploration formula, not cut out entirely. Same goes for a lot of the customization that only needed a little polishing. Oh, and fact that the weapons now need bullets doesn't make sense to me. There's probably some explanation on the codex that I missed, but I sure didn't like.
Also, kinda meh that you don't have much to level up now.
I'm hoping for better side quests though.
Now as far as story and characters go, I can't say much.
I played a bit more, and I honestly don't think it's better in every way. The interface is better, the graphics are better, the game is way more polished and smooth, the combat is superior.
On the other hand, so far the game feels a little dumbed down. There's streamlined and too streamlined. I think they should improve on the Mako's exploration formula, not cut out entirely. Same goes for a lot of the customization that only needed a little polishing. Oh, and fact that the weapons now need bullets doesn't make sense to me. There's probably some explanation on the codex that I missed, but I sure didn't like.
Also, kinda meh that you don't have much to level up now.
I'm hoping for better side quests though.
Now as far as story and characters go, I can't say much.
Gillian Seed said:
Some other things I want from Mass Effect 3 are more weapons, not only money but also upgrades and weapons on side-missions, being able to buy/sell resources and a big-ass city like the Citadel.
ME2 is the better game IMO but not by much as I still think that ME1 is an amazing game.
Gestahl said:
The only time you have to walk anywhere is your first time to discover the new areas. Once you've done that you can just use the rapid transit system. You can port straight from the embassies, financial district, wards access so I'm not sure I understand your point.
To the Wind whatever: I was mocking the Presidium by comparing it to the vastly superior mini-hubs in ME2. That is "how it works."
So everyone wants the big and large and grand Presidium, but they all use the rapid transit system so that they never had to see most of it? Okay, then.
Not trying to assholish or anything, just curious as to what anyone found so great about the Presidium that 3 well sized mini hubs don't make up for.
Rubezh said:
So everyone wants the big and large and grand Presidium, but they all use the rapid transit system so that they never had to see most of it? Okay, then.
Not trying to assholish or anything, just curious as to what anyone found so great about the Presidium that 3 well sized mini hubs don't make up for.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Gestahl said:
Because the first games had great areas, as well as a great Presidium. The mini-hubs in ME2 were cool too, but it's not an either or thing. Don't know how you got confused there. And one guy saying use the transit if you don't like walking doesn't equate to "everybody" or "they all."
Again, I have to ask...why do people get so angry about who likes which game better? I mean, anybody who calls either a terrible game is worth the scorn, but tone it down people. If you like ME1 more than ME2, don't act like they smacked your mom with a cactus or something.
^^^^^Noveria mini-hub and Feros' little ramshackle village, and uh anything else come to mind? Noveria was pretty good for a mini-hub I 'll admit.
I can see that. The Presidium was more or less a path or vehicle to all the interesting places in the Ward or Citadel Tower though, especially given how everyone including me used Rapid Transit to bypass most of it. Sure it was big, but there was a lot of empty space. I'd prefer personally if they expanded more on the Wards and/or Omega or other mini-hubs and gave them the sense of scale and ignored the Presidium entirely.
Vlodril said:
I can see that. The Presidium was more or less a path or vehicle to all the interesting places in the Ward or Citadel Tower though, especially given how everyone including me used Rapid Transit to bypass most of it. Sure it was big, but there was a lot of empty space. I'd prefer personally if they expanded more on the Wards and/or Omega or other mini-hubs and gave them the sense of scale and ignored the Presidium entirely.
What? The new presidium looks so cool. Thing is there is nothing to do there. Nothing--except if your doing your comrades missions. Ugh--don't get me started on those long loading screen, or how quiet your teammates are.
Can we protest enough so that they bring back the elevators?
Can we protest enough so that they bring back the elevators?
Meus Renaissance
Member
Other than the graphic update, anyone else why the game took up two discs?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Gestahl said:
Pretty much my thoughts. I would have liked to explore the Citadel again, but I did it in the original game and I have no interest in returning to previously used areas at the expense of development time and resources that could be put towards new ones.
Citadel v2.0 does not win against Tuchanka, Omega, and Illium.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
EatChildren said:
Unless we get to see the Turian and Asari wards of course.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Halycon said:
You have issues man :lol
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Meus Renaissance said:
Somebody needs to post the gif of Garrus and Shepard riding a unicorn.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Halycon said:
chriskun
Member
I would say that Mass Effect 2 is a better game if you judge games using a checklist(which is a problem with most peoples review process). But if you are considering the overall feel, I think Mass Effect 1 left a better overall lasting impression on me. Story was better, a better feeling of freedom, ect. And while the combat is magnitudes better than the first ME, the gimped leveling really takes out alot of the hooks of the combat, and makes it feel like a rewardless chore at times. The main difference that sticks out to me, is that after I finished Mass Effect, I immediately started on my second play through. Once I finished 2, however, I had to sort of drag myself back to playing a second time.
The Citadel in ME1 was a travesty. An incredibly large, hugely important structure serving as the hub of civilization for an entire galaxy, represented as essentially a giant empty warehouse so sparsely populated that you needed to run for two minutes or take public transportation to get from one person to the next - and on top of that, all that huge, poorly-designed empty volume was still just a drop in the bucket compared to the size it actually should have been. Even without comparing it to ME2, it was a problem the game had, not one of its redeeming qualities.
ME2 definitely had the right idea. It was smaller, sure, but when you're talking about 0.0000001% versus 0.000001% of a real representation of the Citadel, neither game can claim to even coming close to making a fair attempt at representing the scale of the thing. Instead, they took a very small slice and did a pretty damn good job of making that particular slice feel authentic, populated, noisy and alive. I'd take a small piece of what could pass for the "real" Citadel over a slightly less tiny piece of something that has nothing in common with the concept it's supposed to represent besides the name.
Yeah it would have been nice to see a Citadel with the quality of Zakera Ward and the volume of ME1's Presidium, but at that point you're running up against some pretty clear-cut limitations set by reality (budget, time, manpower) on what gets to be made for the game, and giving up any of ME2's other towns just to make one of them bigger would have been a disservice to the game.
ME2 definitely had the right idea. It was smaller, sure, but when you're talking about 0.0000001% versus 0.000001% of a real representation of the Citadel, neither game can claim to even coming close to making a fair attempt at representing the scale of the thing. Instead, they took a very small slice and did a pretty damn good job of making that particular slice feel authentic, populated, noisy and alive. I'd take a small piece of what could pass for the "real" Citadel over a slightly less tiny piece of something that has nothing in common with the concept it's supposed to represent besides the name.
Yeah it would have been nice to see a Citadel with the quality of Zakera Ward and the volume of ME1's Presidium, but at that point you're running up against some pretty clear-cut limitations set by reality (budget, time, manpower) on what gets to be made for the game, and giving up any of ME2's other towns just to make one of them bigger would have been a disservice to the game.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I miss the looting in ME1, but the "you hit 150! Omni-gel the awesome item you just got to make room!" popup was annoying (after Bring Down the Sky). Had to reload the last battle and free up inventory room.
I like the ability to reload in ME2, but running around after every battle looking for thermal clips (and the inability to grab the ones on some ledges) was annoying.
I like the ability to reload in ME2, but running around after every battle looking for thermal clips (and the inability to grab the ones on some ledges) was annoying.
diamondstar
Member
My thoughts exactly. When I finally dragged myself back to play my Renegade character, I skipped all the conversations. Whereas in ME, I still wanted to hear a few just to see the Renegade responses. I think they handled Paragon and Renegade better in the ME. I didn't care for the RT P/R pop-up either. I get where they are going but it seemed kinda cheesy.
I really miss the morality of KOTOR. I like how some party members were shocked with your actions and even contested them. It made me feel kinda bad sometimes. I miss the NPC's reactions too, they were so organic. I also miss how you could influence party members morality based on your actions. The morality system needs to be re-done or scrapped. I could careless how my morality scale ended in ME2.
This. Well without the Turian package part.
The scenes were pretty PG(not even PG-13) and pretty laughable and disappointing. To me the best one was Jack. Miranda's was ok but I expected a lot more. Especially with how hard you had to work for it and how long it took for it to happen. I got so sick of hearing "I will be by when things get quiet." ughhh..
Yeah, that's what I don't get. Searching for ammo should have no place in this game. I thought the heat system was a perfect way to avoid spamming.Lone_Prodigy said:
Not worrying about ammo but instead on the ideal upgrade for that particularly mission was much more satisfying. Despite that, the combat feels much better now. The IA still is far from perfect, but way better than before.
Anyway, 5 hours into the game. They nailed the athmosphere. The game feels grittier, more real. The updated graphics and lightning really bring everything to life, and Omega is so detailed, it feels real, which is something you couldn't say about most of the first game's places. I couldn't stand the grain filter in the first game, but I love it now. Cutscenes are also much better. Characters now are much more believable and convincing. Well, except humans, they still look horrible. I mean, I even think that Dragon Age had better human faces.
And
Garrus just got 100% more awesome.
BolognaSoup
Member
I love the Hammerhead and the potential it has for more DLC/ME3. Flesh that thing out more, add some weapons, a zoom, some RPGness customization to it and make it the ME1 Mako/ME2 Probes replacement and I would be in exploration heaven. Even better, for combat scenarios have 2 smaller versions being flown by Garrus and Miranda (or your squadmates of choice) following you around the map providing different types of auxiliary fire.
Reminds a lot of how Halo's ghost feels actually, just bigger.
Reminds a lot of how Halo's ghost feels actually, just bigger.
You people are out of your mind.WanderingWind said:
ME1 gets points for a better storyline and soundtrack, that's about it. The other neat stuff about ME1 (vehicle missions, planetary exploration, loot) was fundamentally flawed in some way.
Also: ME2 is FUNNY. And it's not just a conversation here and there, it's funny all over the place. Hell, it's even funny when it doesn't mean to be! MORINTH CLUB SCENE WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ART. So there's that too.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
LCfiner said:
Excuse me human. Private conversation?
(I was standing at the door ffs). :lol
It feels weird for me to say this, as a hardcore RPG fan, but I much prefer the "simplifying" and streamlining of the sequel, seems to fit with the game and universe much better. I can't really say I was a big fan of the first ME, mostly due to the erratic combat and repetitive Mako subquests, but the setting, backstory and music really captivated me, and that made me want to try the sequel.
But one area where I think ME2 clearly disappoints compared to 1, is in the main missions (i.e. dossiers/loyalty). With some exceptions
, the missions are really straightforward, point A to point B, shoot shoot shoot. I loved the variety in places like Noveria and Feros, where you had mini hubs, some brief sidequests to do, a mixture of story development, vehicular combat, puzzle solving, and regular combat.
So, what I loved about ME2:
-Music, of course
-Combat feels much more solid, control is better, and game plays much more like a traditional stop-and-pop cover shooter
-N7 missions, they were nice little bite-sized missions with a variety of different objectives (like
). I'd have loved to see more of these
-Vastly refined inventory system
-Much more technical polish and vastly improved graphics
What I wasn't terribly happy about:
-The "Mission Complete" screen, and the fact you can't level up mid-mission
-The level design being mostly warehouses or ships filled with crates crates crates everywhere. The game hints at some really nice, organic environments (in the N7 missions) too.
-The Mako had a lot of problems, but shouldn't have been totally cut (I haven't tried the Hammerhead missions yet)
-Running through the field picking up ammo clips, it hurt the 'flow' of the game
-A lot of the NPC dialogue consisted of either token ME1 references, or just plain jokes.
The convo where the "nice guy" Turian tries putting moves on the Quarian was kinda funny, as was the whole 'bachelor party', both at the bar in Ilium. And of course the Gamestop guy parody Some more interesting NPCs and non-jokey dialogue, perhaps more NPC-given quests, would have been nice.
What I really disliked:
-SCANNING
-The lack of backtracking to "quest" areas. I missed quite a number of weapon upgrades and was disappointed I couldn't go back.
-Jack's design... UGGO!
But one area where I think ME2 clearly disappoints compared to 1, is in the main missions (i.e. dossiers/loyalty). With some exceptions
Tali's trial, the whole Samara/Morinth stuff, Thane's stealth-esque mission
So, what I loved about ME2:
-Music, of course
-Combat feels much more solid, control is better, and game plays much more like a traditional stop-and-pop cover shooter
-N7 missions, they were nice little bite-sized missions with a variety of different objectives (like
relighting the beacons to guide you through the fog, exploring an abandoned ship, or rebooting the sun shield
-Vastly refined inventory system
-Much more technical polish and vastly improved graphics
What I wasn't terribly happy about:
-The "Mission Complete" screen, and the fact you can't level up mid-mission
-The level design being mostly warehouses or ships filled with crates crates crates everywhere. The game hints at some really nice, organic environments (in the N7 missions) too.
-The Mako had a lot of problems, but shouldn't have been totally cut (I haven't tried the Hammerhead missions yet)
-Running through the field picking up ammo clips, it hurt the 'flow' of the game
-A lot of the NPC dialogue consisted of either token ME1 references, or just plain jokes.
The convo where the "nice guy" Turian tries putting moves on the Quarian was kinda funny, as was the whole 'bachelor party', both at the bar in Ilium. And of course the Gamestop guy parody
Some more interesting NPCs and non-jokey dialogue, perhaps more NPC-given quests, would have been nice.What I really disliked:
-SCANNING
-The lack of backtracking to "quest" areas. I missed quite a number of weapon upgrades and was disappointed I couldn't go back.
-Jack's design... UGGO!
I completelly agree with everything you said. Except for scanning. I actually like that for some reason, just wish it was faster or had a bigger radar. Also, I would put the ammo sacavenging on the "What I really disliked" list. I mean, I get that they wanted to encourage weapon experimentation, but the pacing really suffers.djtiesto said:It feels weird for me to say this, as a hardcore RPG fan, but I much prefer the "simplifying" and streamlining of the sequel, seems to fit with the game and universe much better. I can't really say I was a big fan of the first ME, mostly due to the erratic combat and repetitive Mako subquests, but the setting, backstory and music really captivated me, and that made me want to try the sequel.
But one area where I think ME2 clearly disappoints compared to 1, is in the main missions (i.e. dossiers/loyalty). With some exceptions, the missions are really straightforward, point A to point B, shoot shoot shoot. I loved the variety in places like Noveria and Feros, where you had mini hubs, some brief sidequests to do, a mixture of story development, vehicular combat, puzzle solving, and regular combat.Tali's trial, the whole Samara/Morinth stuff, Thane's stealth-esque mission
So, what I loved about ME2:
-Music, of course
-Combat feels much more solid, control is better, and game plays much more like a traditional stop-and-pop cover shooter
-N7 missions, they were nice little bite-sized missions with a variety of different objectives (like). I'd have loved to see more of theserelighting the beacons to guide you through the fog, exploring an abandoned ship, or rebooting the sun shield
-Vastly refined inventory system
-Much more technical polish and vastly improved graphics
What I wasn't terribly happy about:
-The "Mission Complete" screen, and the fact you can't level up mid-mission
-The level design being mostly warehouses or ships filled with crates crates crates everywhere. The game hints at some really nice, organic environments (in the N7 missions) too.
-The Mako had a lot of problems, but shouldn't have been totally cut (I haven't tried the Hammerhead missions yet)
-Running through the field picking up ammo clips, it hurt the 'flow' of the game
-A lot of the NPC dialogue consisted of either token ME1 references, or just plain jokes.
The convo where the "nice guy" Turian tries putting moves on the Quarian was kinda funny, as was the whole 'bachelor party', both at the bar in Ilium. And of course the Gamestop guy parody
What I really disliked:
-SCANNING
-The lack of backtracking to "quest" areas. I missed quite a number of weapon upgrades and was disappointed I couldn't go back.
-Jack's design... UGGO!
I don't know. To me it feels that Mass Effect is a RPG disguised as a shooter while Mass Effect 2 is a shooter disguised as a RPG. I still like the sequel better, because of all the things you said, but I really think that simply cutting out Mako exploration and some heavier RPG mechanics wasn't the best decision. It was just easier for them, I guess.
If Mass Effect 3 has the polish and core gameplay of Mass Effect 2 two with new and refined Mako exploration and heavier RPG elements my head will explode.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Zen said:
I never implied people should stop posting their disappointment, you dolt, I was asking people to stop assuming that most people feel the same way as them. Acting like everyone preferred the original over ME2 and then stating that it was like that in the spoiler thread just seems to me like they never read it in the first place. As I recall, it was pretty split down the middle; tons of people liked ME1 better, and tons of people preferred ME2.
ToyMachine228
Member
I hope Bioware can get ME3 out relatively quickly. They definitely have the engine running as smooth as possible in ME2 already so hopefully they can just focus on getting the content in and not have to worry about optimizing the engine any further. I want to play ME3 while ME2 is still somewhat fresh on my mind. The fact that Bioware is already lightly talking about ME3 gives me hope.
I still have to finish my second play through too...Even though I fucked up one of my squad members loyalty missions. I don't think I have the gumption to play a third time to get the perfect ending.
I still have to finish my second play through too...Even though I fucked up one of my squad members loyalty missions. I don't think I have the gumption to play a third time to get the perfect ending.
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