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[RyanDG]

That just opens the floodgates though... then the clamor will be "why would I pay $XX for a damn Mantis when I want a Widow?!??!"

I'm not talking about real money. I'm talking about the in game credits. I think it's a nice way to be able to try out different weapons to really decide what kind of path you want to take. And it's especially something I think should be a given for any of the consumable items that you can use (as I mentioned above).

As a side note - I've officially stopped playing Vanguard after I've locked up/fell through floors at least 4-5 times now. Vanguard breaks the maps.

 

[eek5]

Rocked a couple of silver missions back to back with my Quarian Inflitrator. Geth, obviously, cause that is how I roll. Might try a Gold challenge Geth to see how I can do.

I redid my build. This build gives up a ton in terms of damage/headshots/cloaked damage, but it allows me to sabotage, line up a shot, and then shoot before I lose cloak. Works better against Geth, worse against everything else.

Unfortunately I am still using the Mantis. I find nothing but shotgun and assault rifle mods.

Mantis is good though. I unlocked the Widow and my charge time is +11% with it comapred to +160% with Mantis X. Being able to cloak immediately after reload is really nice even if you have to give up a bit of damage to do it. I just try to aim for headshots more to compensate

 

[walbertsmith]

I'm in the over-30 crowd with a wife, kid, house, career, etc., and little time to game, but I really dislike the purchasing of unlocks. I've got plenty of disposable income, but it just seems silly to spend money on something like Spectre packs (DLC prices are bad enough as it is).

The biggest problem I have with monetizing the unlock system is that it shaped the decisions Bioware made. I think credits would have been a little easier to earn, or Starter/Veteran/Spectre packs would have been a little cheaper, if Bioware wasn't trying to give people an incentive to spend money to get unlocks. It really clouds the entire unlock system they have. And, in some ways, it's far worse than say, paid Battlefield unlocks, where you know exactly what you're getting when you pay for it. This is essentially gambling $1 or $2 at a time. Sure, you're hoping you can pull a Quarian Infiltrator from that Veteran pack you just bought, but you're just as likely to get an Avenger upgrade and a shotgun mod.

In short, I liked the unlock system fine in the demo, but now that they've monetized it for the retail version, it makes me very skeptical of the design choices they made.

That's entirely fair, but what makes the unlock system different between the demo and the full game? The Spectre pack? The main reason why the system doesn't bother is because no matter what demographic you are, you have access to all of the content. Either grind or shell out cash and everyone's on an equal playing field.

As a side note - I've officially stopped playing Vanguard after I've locked up/fell through floors at least 4-5 times now. Vanguard breaks the maps.

Ugh, same here. I'm so hesitant to play with my Vanguard because it's so easy to fuck yourself over. It's entirely unofficial but I *think* it happens with a lag spike and doing a Nova immediately following a Charge (like those odd times when you accidentally do 3 Novas in between Charges despite not having barriers for that 3rd Charge). If you space it out a bit it *seems* like you can have a glitch-free round.

 

[GuardianE]

I'm not talking about real money. I'm talking about the in game credits. I think it's a nice way to be able to try out different weapons to really decide what kind of path you want to take. And it's especially something I think should be a given for any of the consumable items that you can use (as I mentioned above).

As a side note - I've officially stopped playing Vanguard after I've locked up/fell through floors at least 4-5 times now. Vanguard breaks the maps.

Weird. I've played almost exclusively Vanguard from the demo and the full game, and I've never glitched out of the map.

 

[walbertsmith]

Weird. I've played almost exclusively Vanguard from the demo and the full game, and I've never glitched out of the map.

Do you rely on Nova/Charge?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

They've clearly made Spectre packs more difficult than they should be to purchase in order to entice you to spend real money.

Not sure why anyone is defending this.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

That's entirely fair, but what makes the unlock system different between the demo and the full game? The Spectre pack? The main reason why the system doesn't bother is because no matter what demographic you are, you have access to all of the content. Either grind or shell out cash and everyone's on an equal playing field.

In the demo, we didn't know for sure they were going to monetize (but some people suspected it). Now that it is monetized, it just makes me think twice about the decisions they made. Were the decisions made to give us the best experience possible, or were they to entice us to spend more money? It just seems disingenuous.

They've clearly made Spectre packs more difficult than they should be to purchase in order to entice you to spend real money.

Not sure why anyone is defending this.

This. If the real money option wasn't there, I wouldn't think twice about how much Spectre packs cost in credits. But since it is there, I'm left feeling that Bioware made them expensive simply to encourage people to spend real money instead. It just feels dirty.

 

[derFeef]

They've clearly made Spectre packs more difficult than they should be to purchase in order to entice you to spend real money.

Not sure why anyone is defending this.

I played like two hours yesterday and I was halfway there, I would disagree that it's so difficult.

 

[EvaTType01]

is anybody experiencing problem with the multiplayer not saving? I got my engineer to 20, when i went back it was back to lvl 19 and all the money i saved is gone ><;

Also, is there a reason why people leave in the middle of a match? Me and my brother play duo, then about halfway when things go awry, people leave when their dead. I mean, we spend like 15 or so minutes. When you leave, your xp is not counted at the end of the tally and thus a lower score total. I mean the good thing about failing a match is you still keep the money you earned and some XP, its like people dont like xp and money or something.....

 

[RyanDG]

They've clearly made Spectre packs more difficult than they should be to purchase in order to entice you to spend real money.

Not sure why anyone is defending this.

I don't know... Clearing silver twice (two twenty minute runs) is enough to buy a spectre pack.

 

[eek5]

This. If the real money option wasn't there, I wouldn't think twice about how much Spectre packs cost in credits. But since it is there, I'm left feeling that Bioware made them expensive simply to encourage people to spend real money instead. It just feels dirty.

I don't think the spectre packs are that expensive.

Two silvers gets you 60k and takes 45 mins
One gold gets you 75k and takes 25-45 mins

You can do gold with just upgraded recruit pack weapons (Avenger/Mantis) and mods found in recruit packs (I believe all the barrels are common). Human engineer is great against geth.

If you had to grind out two golds to buy a spectre pack I would agree but once you hit gold you're opening a spectre pack every round; a spectre pack and veteran pack every other round. The thing is nothing in the spectre packs are really even required to play the game.

 

[LosDaddie]

eh, I'm seriously considering buying a Spectre pack with my XBL Rewards points. I have, like, 190pts or something.

And yup, I'm married with a kid, house, and career. So my game-time is very limited. I've only played Bronze so far, and it takes me about 1.5hrs to have enough credits for a Spectre pack.

Spoiler

I'll hate myself afterwards

 

[Ken]

I used an Avenger X in silver and there is no way I'd bring it with me into gold.

 

[harrytang]

I don't think the spectre packs are that expensive.

Two silvers gets you 60k and takes 45 mins
One gold gets you 75k and takes 25-45 mins

You can do gold with just upgraded recruit pack weapons (Avenger/Mantis) and mods found in recruit packs (I believe all the barrels are common). Human engineer is great against geth.

If you had to grind out two golds to buy a spectre pack I would agree but once you hit gold you're opening a spectre pack every round; a spectre pack and veteran pack every other round. The thing is nothing in the spectre packs are really even required to play the game.

he's right. i like that you have to work to unlock the good shit. i hope they dont do the NFS pay to unlock everything BS. defeats the purpose.]

also i should say that i'm around approx level 60. bought my first spectre pack last night. the veteren packs gave me good shit in the demo so i;m still sticking with them. plus you need to build up your equipment cache. spectre backs are for later when you know the maps and enemies backwards and forwards.

 

[eek5]

I used an Avenger X in silver and there is no way I'd bring it with me into gold.

I've been using it in gold without problems. Great AR for fast recharge times if you're going to be holding an area where you'll have to fight in CQB sometimes. I was initially using the phalanx but it was too slow to bring down shields up close so I switched.

 

[Ken]

I've been using it in gold without problems. Great AR for fast recharge times if you're going to be holding an area where you'll have to fight in CQB sometimes. I was initially using the phalanx but it was too slow to bring down shields up close so I switched.

What mods do you have on it? I found that it did pitiful damage on silver.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

i like that you have to work to unlock the good shit. i hope they dont do the NFS pay to unlock everything BS. defeats the purpose.

I don't mind working for good items. I don't even mind loot drop games (which this essentially is). But the drop rates feel like they've been tuned for maximum profit as opposed to proper game balance, and that really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[eek5]

What mods do you have on it? I found that it did pitiful damage on silver.

barrel and spare ammo I think. I use it in between energy drain to take down shields so I can switch to incinerate after just 1 energy drain instead of requiring two then I use it to do higher dps while I incinerate. I think it's a great weapon for casters. It is better than the SMGs I have for CQB stuff at least

 

[Ken]

barrel and spare ammo I think. I use it in between energy drain to take down shields so I can switch to incinerate after just 1 energy drain instead of requiring two then I use it to do higher dps while I incinerate. I think it's a great weapon for casters. It is better than the SMGs I have for CQB stuff at least

Ah, energy drain. I've been using my Black Widow on my drain Salarian. My assault rifle of choice has been the Vindicator.

 

[harrytang]

from BW boards posted 2 hours ago - sorry if posted here already

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 13, 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tempest SMG
- Damage increased from [35.7-44.6] to [41.1-53.5]

Locust SMG
- Damage increased from [26.2-32.8] to [30.1-39.3]

Shuriken SMG
- Damage increased from [29.3-36.6] to [33.6-42.1]

Mattock Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [83.7-104.7] to [94.2-117.8]

Vindicator Assault Rifle
- Damage decreased from [68.6-85.8] to [62.4-78.0]
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.25-0.7]

Sabotage Power
- Damage from weapon backfire increased from 150 to 200
- Rank 4 weapon backfire damage bonus increased from 30% to 50%
- Maximum number of simultaneous hacked robots reduced from 2 to 1
- Base cooldown increased from 8 to 14 seconds
- Rank 5 cooldown bonus increased from 25% to 35%
- Base hack duration reduced from 12 to 10 seconds
- Rank 6 Berserk upgrade damage bonus reduced from 100% to 50%
- Delay before enemies can attack hacked robots increased from 2 to 8 seconds

Geth Trooper
- Weapon damage increased from 30 to 35
- (Bronze) Health increased from 750 to 825
- (Silver) Health increased from 1125 to 1238
- (Gold) Health increased from 1688 to 1856

Geth Pyro
- Damage of flamethrower increased from 50 to 65
- (Bronze) Shields increased from 750 to 1170
- (Silver) Shields increased from 1125 to 1755
- (Gold) Shields increased from 1688 to 2633
- (Silver & Gold) Evades less frequently from weapon damage
- (Silver & Gold) Evades less frequently from projectile powers

Geth Hunter
- Fixed a bug where Hunters would never re-cloak after decloaking to fire on Gold

- (Bronze) Health increased from 750 to 900
- (Bronze) Shields increased from 675 to 1013

- (Silver) Health increased from 1125 to 1350
- (Silver) Shields increased from 1013 to 1519
- (Silver) Movement speed modifier while cloaked increased from 75% to 90%

- (Gold) Health increased from 1688 to 2025
- (Gold) Shields increased from 1519 to 2278
- (Gold) Movement speed modifier while cloaked increased from 80% to 110%
- (Gold) Aim delay before firing decreased from 0.5 to 0.25 seconds

Geth Prime
- (Silver) Reduced chance to play hit reactions from 35% to 27.5%
- (Gold) Reduced chance to play hit reactions from 30% to 15%

 

[walbertsmith]

Just to add on to what everyone else is saying....

While Spectre packs are the most expensive in terms of credits, you also have the chance to open multiple rares and are guaranteed at least one. And note the overall structure of the multiplayer... there's prestiging/promoting, but unlike COD's system (that wipes EVERYTHING you earned) you get to keep everything you unlocked. Plus it feeds into the single player, where most people have at least one playthrough but I suspect a large number have at least two playthroughs.

This phenomenon alone extends the life of the multiplayer and all those Spectre packs you opened before still have relative value down the line (maybe not so much +1 to thermal clips, but you get the idea). Even if you're annoyed at unlocking all those shotguns now, you have incentive to continue playing the multi because (if you have multiple single player playthroughs) you have more reason to try new classes to promote to your single player game. So even though you have little reason to use shotguns with your Infiltrator now, at least you'll have them 7, 8, 9 promoted classes down the line.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I don't think the spectre packs are that expensive.

Two silvers gets you 60k and takes 45 mins
One gold gets you 75k and takes 25-45 mins

You can do gold with just upgraded recruit pack weapons (Avenger/Mantis) and mods found in recruit packs (I believe all the barrels are common). Human engineer is great against geth.

If you had to grind out two golds to buy a spectre pack I would agree but once you hit gold you're opening a spectre pack every round; a spectre pack and veteran pack every other round. The thing is nothing in the spectre packs are really even required to play the game.

I guess it just depends on your perspective. Compared to MW3, for example, unlocks are not as freely handed out in ME3. Sure, the better stuff in MW3 takes longer to get, but you know you're eventually going to get it, and you're rewarded along the way with other unlocks. Plus, it's really quick to level up in MW3 on the early levels. I know they're different games, but MW3 is an example of a massively successful online multiplayer that doesn't resort to monetizing unlocks (at least they haven't yet...).

The other problem is that the Spectre pack offers the best equipment. You can buy 3 Veteran packs for the cost of one Spectre pack, but you're getting (mostly) lesser equipment. And the monetary pricing doesn't even correlate to the credit cost. A 20k credit Veteran pack is $1, whereas a 60k credit Spectre pack is $2. It seems clear that a Spectre pack should naturally be only 40k of credits. It seems like they made it arbitrarily more expensive to encourage people to spend $2 instead of 60k of credits.

And I realize that the contents of a Spectre pack aren't required to play the game. I'm not saying they are. But they are desirable and people want them. The MP7 isn't required for MW3, but people want to unlock it too. It's part of the game, unlocking things. But when the game developer's decisions on how to unlock things and with what speed to unlock them is clouded by the thought of making more money, that's what bothers me.

 

[walbertsmith]

I don't mind working for good items. I don't even mind loot drop games (which this essentially is). But the drop rates feel like they've been tuned for maximum profit as opposed to proper game balance, and that really rubs me the wrong way.

It's luck. Just like people sometimes get Asari Adepts and Geth Pulse Shotguns with their starter packs, people can grind for days and not get it.

Same thing like grinding Mephisto or Baal in Diablo II... some people get lucky, some don't.

 

[eek5]

Geth Pyro
- Damage of flamethrower increased from 50 to 65

seriously? that shit already feels like it one shots me

 

[Ken]

Ah, Vindicator debuff.

 

[GuardianE]

Do you rely on Nova/Charge?

Pretty much entirely. Occasion shotgun or melee.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

from BW boards posted 2 hours ago - sorry if posted here already

Great... so Geth are buffed and my Quarian Infiltrator's Sabotage power is nerfed.

I feel like Bioware should follow that with a footnote:

"We know it was easy to load up on credits by beating the Geth on Silver and Gold, so we fixed it. Don't forget, Spectre packs can be purchased for only 160 Microsoft points!"

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

So what is the best lineup to use when you get to silver and gold challenges? We beat the bronze stuff last night.

I have heard Quarian infiltrator thrown around..

 

[Ken]

Great... so Geth are buffed and my Quarian Infiltrator's Sabotage power is nerfed.

I feel like Bioware should follow that with a footnote:

"We know it was easy to load up on credits by beating the Geth on Silver and Gold, so we fixed it. Don't forget, Spectre packs can be purchased for only 160 Microsoft points!"

You are not wrong, lol.

 

[walbertsmith]

Pretty much entirely. Occasion shotgun or melee.

Then you are a blessed, blessed man.... May you never change.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

For those complaining about the option to purchase Spectre packs... it's a natural evolution of the video games industry. The average age of gamers nowadays is over 30... and this is the time when many people have marriages, kids, longterm careers, etc. These people still want to play video games but no longer have the time to grind out what it takes to be successful at a game they enjoy. In essence, time > money for them, so the option to spend a few bucks to save hours and hours of time is an option they would happily take. It's also the reason why DLC like "unlock guns/customization options for the Soldier class" in Battlefield 3 or "unlock all these cars" in Forza exist. For those with less money but more time, well you still have the ability to grind out those packs and stay on the same playing field. Everyone has access to the same content but have options to maximize their resources on how they want to achieve it... it's great if you ask me.

And as for the random element to the booster packs... well, sports cards and collectible card games have been doing this for *decades*, so this is nothing different.

I'm in the over-30, career, partner, etc. crowd.

I don't dislike the ME3 booster packs as a rule. In fact, I think a lot of it is actually really fun. However, I don't like some parts of the implementation.

The multiplayer is great, but I feel some aspects of the card system are bad for new players. Basically, if there are certain things you want, there is no way to control for that.

My situation as a new player:

I wanted to play as a Quarian Engineer. I did not have this combo. So I started as a human female engineer. I played up until level 13 or so and realized I was too squishy and felt like I screwed up my build. So I started a human male engineer and put points into Fitness. This guy is gimped too. I have no idea why.

Seems maybe the problem is that I wasn't buying the cheap card packs. I was saving my money for spectre packs so I could hopefully get the class I wanted. But since I was doing that, I wasn't getting regular upgrades to my weapons, a good stock of rockets/medi-gel, weapon attachments. I was rarely ever able to afford the spectre packs, and when I did get them, I was getting shotguns that I didn't plan to use.

The game never told me what to do. It didn't give me a clear path, it just threw me in. I was armed with a tiny bit of knowledge (that the class I wanted was only available in Spectre packs) and didn't understand the drawbacks that chasing the class gave.

Let's take a more structured/tiered system like Battlefield 3. In that game, if I want to play as an engineer, I play as an engineer. The more I play as an engineer, the better the stuff I get as an engineer will be. I have the option of using any loadout I like, and the more I play with that loadout, the better it will get (due to unlocking attachments for the weapon you are playing with).

Sure, BF3 requires a lot of time to acquire everything, but what is the 'mean time to happen' for getting what you want in ME3? There isn't a structure, so you don't know. The ONLY way to get unlocks and level up weapons is through randomness. It would be nice if there was some sort of common reward that you get through completing missions. Maybe even just one item per run. This way if you're new and hording points, you at least will somewhat replenish your consumables and maybe get some gun attachments.

 

[walbertsmith]

Great... so Geth are buffed and my Quarian Infiltrator's Sabotage power is nerfed.

I feel like Bioware should follow that with a footnote:

"We know it was easy to load up on credits by beating the Geth on Silver and Gold, so we fixed it. Don't forget, Spectre packs can be purchased for only 160 Microsoft points!"

What's funny is you're on this crusade against monetization but, like I said before, *all* the content is available to *all* players. That is the number one reason why this particular instance of monetization makes sense.

This is nothing like MW3 (which you mention as a successful game without monetizing content) that has COD ELITE... which is the BIGGEST money grab of all. A subscription service that fragments the player base? Yeah, fuck that.

@Snakeswithlasers

That's why there are tiered packs... so you can tier up appropriately. If you find it difficult competing with your new character buying only Spectres, the negative feedback should incentivize you to purchase the cheaper ones, right? That's why successfully completing Bronze means you're guaranteed Recruit packs, successfully completing Silver mean's you're guaranteed Veteran packs, and successfully completing Gold means you're guaranteed Spectre packs. Makes sense right?

 

[Dresden]

I'm in the over-30, career, partner, etc. crowd.

I don't dislike the ME3 booster packs as a rule. In fact, I think a lot of it is actually really fun. However, I don't like some parts of the implementation.

The multiplayer is great, but I feel some aspects of the card system are bad for new players. Basically, if there are certain things you want, there is no way to control for that.

My situation as a new player:

I wanted to play as a Quarian Engineer. I did not have this combo. So I started as a human female engineer. I played up until level 13 or so and realized I was too squishy and felt like I screwed up my build. So I started a human male engineer and put points into Fitness. This guy is gimped too. I have no idea why.

Seems maybe the problem is that I wasn't buying the cheap card packs. I was saving my money for spectre packs so I could hopefully get the class I wanted. But since I was doing that, I wasn't getting regular upgrades to my weapons, a good stock of rockets/medi-gel, weapon attachments. I was rarely ever able to afford the spectre packs, and when I did get them, I was getting shotguns that I didn't plan to use.

The game never told me what to do. It didn't give me a clear path, it just threw me in. I was armed with a tiny bit of knowledge (that the class I wanted was only available in Spectre packs) and didn't understand the drawbacks that chasing the class gave.

Let's take a more structured/tiered system like Battlefield 3. In that game, if I want to play as an engineer, I play as an engineer. The more I play as an engineer, the better the stuff I get as an engineer will be. I have the option of using any loadout I like, and the more I play with that loadout, the better it will get (due to unlocking attachments for the weapon you are playing with).

Sure, BF3 requires a lot of time to acquire everything, but what is the 'mean time to happen' for getting what you want in ME3? There isn't a structure, so you don't know. The ONLY way to get unlocks and level up weapons is through randomness. It would be nice if there was some sort of common reward that you get through completing missions. Maybe even just one item per run. This way if you're new and hording points, you at least will somewhat replenish your consumables and maybe get some gun attachments.

For engineer, you have some leeway in that you don't need good gear to succeed. It's all about whether you specced Chain Overload with Neural Shock or not.

 

[Mindlog]

I don't think so.

75 points.

Also somewhat unrelated but respec cards clear out ALL distributed points compared to promoting which leaves you with 1 point in the first skill. Basically a respec card will allow you to build an engineer with everything maxed except combat drone. I'm probably going to use my respec card on that.

I'm glaring at the 5 undistributed points on my Turian Sentinel.

Also, where does the Disciple rank in the shotgun world? 2nd...3rd? I got one for my vanguard in my first booster pack and need to know how excited to be about it.

It's my favorite Vanguard Shotgun.

from BW boards posted 2 hours ago - sorry if posted here already
Vindicator Assault Rifle
- Damage decreased from [68.6-85.8] to [62.4-78.0]
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.25-0.7]

Well that sucks. Back to the Phaseton for my TS? Sigh, probably yet another heavy pistol + free Tempest class.

 

[MasterShotgun]

Geth Pyro
- Damage of flamethrower increased from 50 to 65

Shit.

 

[eek5]

Well sabotage is completely ruined now. It is.. really bad. Being able to only hack one geth at a time really limits its crowd control ability and the other enemies take forever to react to your hacked geth.

Hunters apparently have ZERO cooldown on cloak now. They immediately cloak after attacking. These hunter-heavy waves are ridiculously hard now. Oh they move fast as shit while cloaked too ;____;

I think engineers/salarian infiltrator will be the farming classes now.

 

[walbertsmith]

Well sabotage is completely ruined now. It is.. really bad. Being able to only hack one geth at a time really limits its crowd control ability and the other enemies take forever to react to your hacked geth.

Hunters apparently have ZERO cooldown on cloak now. They immediately cloak after attacking. These hunter-heavy waves are ridiculously hard now.

I think engineers/salarian infiltrator will be the farming classes now. If you want to snipe energy drain >>>>>>>>>> sabotage for sure.

Add a Turian Sentinel somewhere there. Chain Overload plus Warp (specced to increase weapon damage) are a fantastic combo for Geth.

 

[eek5]

Add a Turian Sentinel somewhere there. Chain Overload plus Warp (specced to increase weapon damage) are a fantastic combo for Geth.

yeah basically anything with overload will work fine now

if you liked to snipe the salarian infiltrator is better because of energy drain since almost everything has more shields now

The thing that hurts sabotage the most is the 8 seconds before enemies will attack your hacked unit. On more powerful units the 2nd and 3rd hacks don't even last the full 15s or whatever so they'll basically never get attacked now.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

What's funny is you're on this crusade against monetization but, like I said before, *all* the content is available to *all* players. That is the number one reason why this particular instance of monetization makes sense.

This is nothing like MW3 (which you mention as a successful game without monetizing content) that has COD ELITE... which is the BIGGEST money grab of all. A subscription service that fragments the player base? Yeah, fuck that.

No, actually not *all* content is available to *all* players. Everyone is still stuck with the randomness of it all. Everything starts locked. If you pay money, you don't have to spend as much time unlocking things. Remember the VentureBeat article I posted many pages ago? Even after opening 50 Spectre packs, and spending $100, they still were missing a ton of unlocks. And there aren't any guarantees you'll ever be able to unlock it all (which is fine on its own, except for the fact that they're clearly trying to encourage people to pay for unlocks by offering that as an option).

COD Elite doesn't belong in this discussion, it's just a package deal on all the MW3 map packs. That's DLC. I hate the pricing structure of DLC, but the consumer base has accepted it, so it's here to stay. At least you're getting something tangible and new when you buy it. With a Spectre pack, you're merely paying to randomly unlock on-disc content quicker than by playing the game. Also, there are already rumors of ME3 multiplayer DLC, so they're doing the same thing.

Again, the problem isn't necessarily the unlock system in ME3, the problem is that design choices were made with the purpose of monetizing the system. Remove the money aspect, and I don't question it. But with it there, it makes me think that EA/Bioware weren't planning on giving us the best possible experience, they were just trying to line their pockets.

 

[sophora]

Just got done with a few missions on silver against geth...man those pyros are crazy...

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Just got done with a few missions on silver against geth...man those pyros are crazy...

Was there a title update for the new tweaks already?

 

[walbertsmith]

No, actually not *all* content is available to *all* players. Everyone is still stuck with the randomness of it all. Everything starts locked. If you pay money, you don't have to spend as much time unlocking things. Remember the VentureBeat article I posted many pages ago? Even after opening 50 Spectre packs, and spending $100, they still were missing a ton of unlocks. And there aren't any guarantees you'll ever be able to unlock it all (which is fine on its own, except for the fact that they're clearly trying to encourage people to pay for unlocks by offering that as an option).

COD Elite doesn't belong in this discussion, it's just a package deal on all the MW3 map packs. That's DLC. I hate the pricing structure of DLC, but the consumer base has accepted it, so it's here to stay. At least you're getting something tangible and new when you buy it. With a Spectre pack, you're merely paying to randomly unlock on-disc content quicker than by playing the game. Also, there are already rumors of ME3 multiplayer DLC, so they're doing the same thing.

Again, the problem isn't necessarily the unlock system in ME3, the problem is that design choices were made with the purpose of monetizing the system. Remove the money aspect, and I don't question it. But with it there, it makes me think that EA/Bioware weren't planning on giving us the best possible experience, they were just trying to line their pockets.

You're railing against the randomness, but guess what? It's a random loot game, like every other loot game out there (Diablo II, Borderlands, etc.) Except instead of getting random loot from dead enemies, you get random loot in between rounds. What's the difference between those games and this one? Sometimes players get lucky and get a Stone of Jordan their very first time and others don't find one in 30 hours of grinding... it's luck, but it doesn't favor one player over another.

And like I said... all content is available to all players. The person that plays 30 hours a week with little money and the person with more money but can only play 10 hours a week both have equal chances at all the potential unlocks. The system does not favor one player over another... and the randomness assures that. Imagine a system where players can buy specific items... wouldn't that favor those with more money than those without?

 

[sophora]

Was there a title update for the new tweaks already?

Actually no, I was in the middle of a multiplayer session. Didn't have to update or anything and the store loaded with the new equipment pack and updated geth when I started a new mission.

 

[eek5]

Was there a title update for the new tweaks already?

It was server side apparently.

Finding a gold lobby that can finish 10 waves appears to be impossible now. D:

 

[divisionbyzorro]

You're railing against the randomness, but guess what? It's a random loot game, like every other loot game out there (Diablo II, Borderlands, etc.) Except instead of getting random loot from dead enemies, you get random loot in between rounds. What's the difference between those games and this one? Sometimes players get lucky and get a Stone of Jordan their very first time and others don't find one in 30 hours of grinding... it's luck, but it doesn't favor one player over another.

And like I said... all content is available to all players. The person that plays 30 hours a week with little money and the person with more money but can only play 10 hours a week both have equal chances at all the potential unlocks. The system does not favor one player over another... and the randomness assures that. Imagine a system where players can buy specific items... wouldn't that favor those with more money than those without?

You're missing the point.

If you're a developer building a random loot game, you're spending dev time to tweak the drop rates to make the optimal gameplay experience. But the moment you introduce money in the situation, your motivation changes. Now your goal isn't to tweak the drop rates to make the best experience for the player. Instead, your goal is to tweak the drop rates to motivate players to spend the most amount of money possible.

It's a conflict of interest, and it certainly feels like the experience has been hampered by it.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

You're railing against the randomness, but guess what? It's a random loot game, like every other loot game out there (Diablo II, Borderlands, etc.) Except instead of getting random loot from dead enemies, you get random loot in between rounds. What's the difference between those games and this one? Sometimes players get lucky and get a Stone of Jordan their very first time and others don't find one in 30 hours of grinding... it's luck, but it doesn't favor one player over another.

You're clearly not understanding what I'm saying. Were Diablo II and Borderlands designed with monetizing unlocks in mind? Did Gearbox Software say: you know what would make this better? If we allowed people to spend money to get the really rare weapon drops? That's what is different here. Monetizing the system is what Bioware had in mind when making ME3's multiplayer. I don't question Borderlands' design choices, because they weren't trying to squeeze every last dime out of me. On the flip side, I do question Bioware's design choices, because they seem to encourage players to spend real money.

The randomness isn't the issue. It's the design choices that went along with a random unlock system that seems to be built with the intention of milking money from consumers.

 

[Psychoward]

Is anyone else getting a glitch where the singularity sound is continuously playing? Even when I'm not playing Adept.... it gets really annoying.

 

[walbertsmith]

You're missing the point.

If you're a developer building a random loot game, you're spending dev time to tweak the drop rates to make the optimal gameplay experience. But the moment you introduce money in the situation, your motivation changes. Now your goal isn't to tweak the drop rates to make the best experience for the player. Instead, your goal is to tweak the drop rates to motivate players to spend the most amount of money possible.

It's a conflict of interest, and it certainly feels like the experience has been hampered by it.

That's only true if there are legitimately different drop rates from buying through credits versus buying through money. And like we've seen in this very thread, sometimes people get exactly what they want from buying (with money) just one pack, and some don't get what they want at all.

And like myriad others here have pointed out, getting a Spectre pack isn't *that* difficult. Sure, if you just start out with a level 13 engineer you're going to have problems, but then you have other players that are playing at an appropriate level and opening a Spectre pack with two Silver runs or one Gold run. So if you can open a Spectre pack every half hour or so, how is that "tweak(ing) the drop rates to motivate players to spend the most amount of money possible"?

 

[X-Frame]

Wow, they nerfed the shit out of Sabotage huh? Is the Quarian Infiltrator even relevant anymore on Gold?

I feel like Human/Salarian Engineer, Salarian Infiltrator, and Turian Sentinels would be ideal now with the QI not even close to being as effective.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

You're missing the point.

If you're a developer building a random loot game, you're spending dev time to tweak the drop rates to make the optimal gameplay experience. But the moment you introduce money in the situation, your motivation changes. Now your goal isn't to tweak the drop rates to make the best experience for the player. Instead, your goal is to tweak the drop rates to motivate players to spend the most amount of money possible.

It's a conflict of interest, and it certainly feels like the experience has been hampered by it.

Far better than I was able to convey it. These are exactly my thoughts as well. Bioware's integrity is compromised by their eagerness to earn more profit. It sucks.