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[Derrick01]

The thing about comparisons is that you need to make them.

I would like to see someone put a map of the DLC area up. It seemed like one very large arena but full of buildings with multiple doors and windows. There were also at least 4 ladders placed around and some of the roofs you could jump across to others.

Soooo many flanking opportunities in that and not just for me. Several times I had to pay attention because several enemies had climbed up and were moving behind me while others in front of me kept me suppressed.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

hit wonders all around. You can empty a room almost completely, but still, if there is Banshee left, even with 5% life, she can still port to you, kill you instant with full life and full shields and you can do nothing about it.

So you didn't like how enemies could kill you?

The endings are against everything the player has done. Bioware just takes over and explains within 5 minutes, why you have sucked for 5 years and now you can decide which ending you will hate most.

Well.... yeah, BioWare explains their story. Because they wrote it?

 

[Trokil]

So you didn't like how enemies could kill you?

It's not about dying, it's about how you die. You have no control over it. In a good game, the player is responsible for it. Luck or bad luck is a very, very bad design concept in a game. It really makes you angry.

Well.... yeah, BioWare explains their story. Because they wrote it?

It's not a book. People played the characters for 5 years, if their decisions don't count, why play at all.

 

[Rodney McKay]

No, none at all.
Game is linear as shit. The "combat sandboxes" are the exact same as ME2.
Small-medium rooms with knee high cover placed all over. Everything is sickeningly linear & to top it off, much smaller in scale than the previous two games.

These types of comments confuse me. I don't think I've ever played a game whose combat wasn't linear. Games like Halo have the "combat sandboxes" and ME3 kinda has that kind of thing in the larger combat areas and in its multiplayer. Even with these you're still going to be moving along a linear progression. Maybe an open world game has non-linear combat? But those games usually have linear combat missions where the bulk of the action takes place.

Are you talking about a game that procedurally generates combat environments, enemy spawns, and mission objectives? If so, then the Mass Effect series is not for you and never has been.

I also don't think I've ever played a cover based shooter that didn't have knee high cover everywhere. This is the stupidest complaint and it comes up every time a game has a cover system. As long as the cover fits the environment (rubble, benches, pillars, cars etc.) there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I try to flank pretty much all of the time, and I constantly move, especially since the enemies can both shoot through cover and remove you from it in various ways. It's extremely rare that I just sit behind a piece of cover and attack what's right ahead. I place my guys in strategic positions and go for pincer attacks. The level design allows for that much more than it used to.

No it doesn't, making you move to different cover is because of the newly redesign combat/enemy a.i.
The levels are the exact same in terms of flanking opportunities as ME2, you just did not need to flank in ME2 at all.

My big beef with the combat is that Use, Rolling, Cover, and Sprint are all tied to the same button. Somewhat understandable on console with their limited buttons, but they really should have allowed PC players to bind that shit separately.

Gears uses one button for a lot of that & it works perfectly, it's the controls in this game that are ass.
Can't can't count how many times I try to get into cover only to roll or when I try to aim over cover that I just get tossed out of cover etc...

 

[Zeliard]

These types of comments confuse me. I don't think I've ever played a game whose combat wasn't linear. Games like Halo have the "combat sandboxes" and ME3 kinda has that kind of thing in the larger combat areas and in its multiplayer. Even with these you're still going to be moving along a linear progression. Maybe an open world game has non-linear combat? But those games usually have linear combat missions where the bulk of the action takes place.

Are you talking about a game that procedurally generates combat environments, enemy spawns, and mission objectives? If so, then the Mass Effect series is not for you and never has been.

I also don't think I've ever played a cover based shooter that didn't have knee high cover everywhere. This is the stupidest complaint and it comes up every time a game has a cover system. As long as the cover fits the environment (rubble, benches, pillars, cars etc.) there shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah they've made the chest-high cover points a bit more naturally-fitting than previously.

So far I haven't seen any egregious ME2 cover points like those bits of cover that literally snap up when you reach that point. It's like, hey thanks enemies for, uh, giving me cover? Maybe it's there in ME3 also but I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Rodney McKay]

It's not about dying, it's about how you die. You have no control over it. In a good game, the player is responsible for it. Luck or bad luck is a very, very bad design concept in a game. It really makes you angry.

That's why you take out the Banshee's first. Keep your distance and roll out of the way if they get near and you'll be fine.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

They should add 40 stories of slums on the citadel with npcs that have nothing for you just for the people complaining.

Ya know because when the reapers are coming I want to go to the ghetto of the galaxy and chill wasting time.

The game is loaded to the fucking hilt with bullshit fetch-quests on the citadel.

Crap argument, find another.

 

[Papercuts]

I swear the nostalgia goggles for ME1 get foggier and foggier as each new installment comes out.

 

[Trokil]

That's why you take out the Banshee's first. Keep your distance and roll out of the way if they get near and you'll be fine.

That's right, but if the Banshee decides, she will port in 3 steps to you and kill you, that's not not working.

It's about luck and again, luck is a very, very bad concept in game.

 

[Papercuts]

That's right, but if the Banshee decides, she will port in 3 steps to you and kill you, that's not not working.

It's about luck and again, luck is a very, very bad concept in game.

You sorta have this power wheel that freezes time and lets you 360 around your character, targeting all the enemies. Not to mention the thing makes a ton of noise.

 

[Zeliard]

No it doesn't, making you move to different cover is because of the newly redesign combat/enemy a.i.
The levels are the exact same in terms of flanking opportunities as ME2, you just did not need to flank in ME2 at all.

You've got it backwards. Since the enemies rarely did anything to get you out of cover in ME2 outside of walking forward, the level design didn't bother to include flanking routes in many cases. This time around, it does, as good movement is 20x more important and effective than before.

ME2 was far more of a static cover-based shooter than this one is. This time you move around, shoot and launch powers much faster, the levels have more ways to maneuver around them, and in certain cases they tend to throw enemies at you from different angles (Benning mission comes to mind as a notable example of that, where you become practically surrounded from all sides).

Hell in some cases, like in the From Ashes mission, you can sprint all the way to a different point and trigger the next combat scenario as your teammates are still fighting the previous enemies. That kind of openness just didn't previously exist in these games.

 

[Kyoufu]

I wish the galaxy map didn't suck. I want the solar systems to be marked with the corresponding side-quest.

 

[taoofjord]

I don't know what happened. I loved Mass Effect 1 and 2. This one, only an hour in, pains me. I don't know if my standards have changed or something but the writing and voice acting seem so much worse.And the game feels streamlined into oblivion. I think I need to pop ME2 in again and see how I feel.

 

[Yoshichan]

I wish the galaxy map didn't suck. I want the solar systems to be marked with the corresponding side-quest.

Yeah. This and the Journal-issues... what the heck were they thinking?

 

[firehawk12]

These types of comments confuse me. I don't think I've ever played a game whose combat wasn't linear. Games like Halo have the "combat sandboxes" and ME3 kinda has that kind of thing in the larger combat areas and in its multiplayer. Even with these you're still going to be moving along a linear progression. Maybe an open world game has non-linear combat? But those games usually have linear combat missions where the bulk of the action takes place.

Are you talking about a game that procedurally generates combat environments, enemy spawns, and mission objectives? If so, then the Mass Effect series is not for you and never has been.

I also don't think I've ever played a cover based shooter that didn't have knee high cover everywhere. This is the stupidest complaint and it comes up every time a game has a cover system. As long as the cover fits the environment (rubble, benches, pillars, cars etc.) there shouldn't be a problem.

People only remember the prefab locations in ME1, but each planet was basically a small open world. You could approach each combat encounter however you wanted in those situations. Sometimes, half the fun was using the Mako to climb to some stupidly placed mountain so that you could snipe guys from half the map away.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

People having nostalgia episodes about the fuckin' MAKO

GAF, I have now seen it all.

 

[Coxswain]

That's right, but if the Banshee decides, she will port in 3 steps to you and kill you, that's not not working.

It's about luck and again, luck is a very, very bad concept in game.

Honestly the one-shot kills that Banshees have are one of the stupider things in the game. They don't always telegraph it or wind up to it, so you've got no way of knowing to get the fuck out of the way, and they take so much punishment before dying that having to pussyfoot around making sure that you don't get grabbed just becomes tedious.

Granted I was especially vulnerable to it because I was playing a ChargeNova Vanguard, but even if I immediately rolled backward after every Charge, and even if I was careful not to Charge in if it looked like the Banshee was winding up for an attack, I would get unlucky in about 50% of the Banshee fights and end up having to start all over again, doing the same thing and hoping it turned out differently.
There was one fight near the end of the game with like three or four of them, and basically all I could do there was kill all of the other enemies and then FRO while I let the rest of my party whittle down the Banshees.

People only remember the prefab locations in ME1, but each planet was basically a small open world. You could approach each combat encounter however you wanted in those situations. Sometimes, half the fun was using the Mako to climb to some stupidly placed mountain so that you could snipe guys from half the map away.

There were a tiny number of places where you actually fought enemies out on the planet surface instead of in the building, and most of the time when you did that it was just like six mercenaries that all die from one shot with the cannon. Not much reason to bother considering how to approach it.

 

[Shepard]

I don't know what happened. I loved Mass Effect 1 and 2. This one, only an hour in, pains me. I don't know if my standards have changed or something but the writing and voice acting seem so much worse.And the game feels streamlined into oblivion. I think I need to pop ME2 in again and see how I feel.

I love everything about the game since I left earth. It helped that I had just finished ME2 again, so I could see the improvements more clearly. 13 hours in and so far this is the best of the trilogy imo.

 

[firehawk12]

People having nostalgia episodes about the fuckin' MAKO

GAF, I have now seen it all.

The Mako was cool. Better than playing Pac-man on the galaxy map anyway.

There were a tiny number of places where you actually fought enemies out on the planet surface instead of in the building, and most of the time when you did that it was just like six mercenaries that all die from one shot with the cannon. Not much reason to bother considering how to approach it.

It's been 5 years or whatever, but I remember doing it quite a bit during my Insanity run in ME1. You couldn't use the Mako to attack because the Mako's damage did not scale with the rest of the game - it would blow up quickly and the cannon would do less damage than your actual weapons.

 

[Hellsing321]

The Mako parts in ME1 had their fair share of problems, but at least they made you feel like you were an awesome spaceman exploring the galaxy instead of a low level technician watching a monitor at mission control. Bioware should have taken the time to to improve on that instead of just dumping it for bullshit scanning.

 

[Durante]

I just don't believe that anyone can honestly argue that this game doesn't feel cramped compared to Mass Effect 1. The citadel is an obvious example, but the general dungeon design is more or less the same story. I'm still relatively early in the game, so maybe it changes, but for now I don't see a large difference compared to ME2. Adding scripted jumps and verticality does not change the linearity of the layouts.

And yet, everyone blasted DA2 for this while they praised ME1 for its "RPGness".

There's a slight difference between re-using a prefab space base a few times in side missions (somewhat conceivable) and reusing the same single natural cave that was used in a main story mission every single time you need a cave.

 

[Papercuts]

People having nostalgia episodes about the fuckin' MAKO

GAF, I have now seen it all.

This happened right when ME2 came out. Scanning was dumb, but the Mako was far worse. I have no idea how a defense squadron formed over it.

 

[Grisby]

People only remember the prefab locations in ME1, but each planet was basically a small open world. You could approach each combat encounter however you wanted in those situations. Sometimes, half the fun was using the Mako to climb to some stupidly placed mountain so that you could snipe guys from half the map away.

I don't remember that being very fun, personally. I mostly ran dudes over so it wasn't very hard.

 

[Raxus]

After

Spoiler

The Citadel is attacked

is there ever another point in the game where there is another 'quest dump' I am running out of side quests to do and I figure I might as well finish up the main quest if there is nothing else in the Citadel. I miss the loyalty missions.

 

[Yoshichan]

I never got to play through ME1. What was so bad about the MAKO and how was it worse from planet scanning (which I enjoyed btw)?

 

[Dacon]

People only remember the prefab locations in ME1, but each planet was basically a small open world. You could approach each combat encounter however you wanted in those situations. Sometimes, half the fun was using the Mako to climb to some stupidly placed mountain so that you could snipe guys from half the map away.

No, not really. They were just big linear, often empty maps.

The mission specific worlds have a lot more to offer yes, Virmire stands out amongst them in my mind, but all there really is to do is progress from point A to point B, etc, etc.

That's not really an open world. Open world implies a huge world with plenty of NPC, items, and things to do. Not just one linear mission.

Also, I loved the Mako traversal segments.

 

[Durante]

I never got to play through ME1. What was so bad about the MAKO and how was it worse from planet scanning (which I enjoyed btw)?

I think people had problems controlling it on 360, and if you are a total completionist there was simply too much of it. But I don't think it failed as a concept to the extent that they should have removed it entirely.

 

[derFeef]

While I liked the Mako, the missions were boring and tedious after a few of em.
They were just big empty maps with nothing in it except that one thing you have to recover.

 

[firehawk12]

No, not really. They were just big linear, often empty maps.

The mission specific worlds have a lot more to offer yes, Virmire stands out amongst them in my mind, but all there really is to do is progress from point A to point B, etc, etc.

That's not really an open world. Open world implies a huge world with plenty of NPC, items, and things to do. Not just one linear mission.

Okay, maybe it's rose-tinted glasses or whatever, but each planet surface had small side missions and collectibles to find. There was a reason to explore each map fully if you were a completionist, and often, that involved getting into combat situations.

I don't remember that being very fun, personally. I mostly ran dudes over so it wasn't very hard.

It gave a sense of exploration. But that was when Mass Effect was much more "inspired" by Star Trek and Star Control 2 I suppose.

 

[RS4-]

The game was a lot shorter than I expected.

Sub 30 hours. Overall, it was ok.

 

[ColonelColon]

Are people honestly saying ME3 is more linear than ME1? Lol. ME3 has layers and more flanking routes than anything in the previous games.

Maybe these people don't care much about flanking routes? I do feel that the basic combat mechanics have been refined in Mass Effect 3, but I'd pass on the increased mobility in a heartbeat if it meant more robust and open-ended levels with at least a few optional quests that don't involve combat (like the planets Feros and Noveria in Mass Effect). Most of the levels so far have felt like fairly straight-forward shooting galleries without any respite from the constant action and I think it gets a bit tedious.

 

[Shepard]

I never got to play through ME1. What was so bad about the MAKO and how was it worse from planet scanning (which I enjoyed btw)?

Driving in a barren and generic landscape with nice skyboxes, fighting with the controls of your car, that's MAKO for you.

 

[MechaX]

This is just wrong, I'm sorry. I literally went through ME2 right before I started ME3 and there is a fairly significant difference. Far more flanking routes and more verticality in ME3, and this goes for almost every mission.

This has been pretty true for me. In ME1, the level design almost make flanking impossible. But of course, it didn't matter in ME1 because more often than not, enemies would just charge right in anyway. A lot of ME2's areas were literally straight corridors with chest-high walls at random places (where your only option was going to a chest-high wall slightly further up).

But as for this talk about the "open world" for ME1 in the topic, I don't really think this was that well done anyway. For the most part, you are just going to be driving up identical mountains with the Mako. "Exploration" is mostly driving up mountains to get an artifact or fight a thresher maw or something (rarely any actual troops or unique situations suited for sniping, etc). About 80% of the rest of the map is entirely superfluous and useless outside of maybe finding an unmarked mineral deposit or artifact (in which those quests don't even end even if you do find everything!). And then you actually get to the purpose for landing on the planet in the first place, and 9 times out of 10, its the same two-floored underground bunker or the red-ish brown underground bunker.

 

[bengraven]

You know, if the Protheans were in a galaxy far far away and 50,000 years ago (a long, long time ago)...

..it would be awesome if Protheans had a cameo in TOR.

 

[astroturfing]

The Mako parts in ME1 had their fair share of problems, but at least they made you feel like you were an awesome spaceman exploring the galaxy instead of a low level technician watching a monitor at mission control. Bioware should have taken the time to to improve on that instead of just dumping it for bullshit scanning.

i very much agree with this sentiment, even though on the whole i prefer ME2 (and probably ME3) to ME1.

 

[kylej]

Wow, where to start with this game...

I so miss the exploration and discovery of ME1. Stumbling upon some vacant city while driving the MAKO and discovering an important chained mission was so awesome.

You mean fumbling around in the Mako and stumbling upon some non-descript pyramid asset wedged into the environment? You romanticize ME1 too much.

 

[MNC]

Hell I never stopped liking the Mako; it was great even in ME1. Apparently the Xbox controls are quite shit?

Anyway, I'm having a blast with this game. Just got

Spoiler

EDI

. And yeah, it really is cringeworthy.

Spoiler

She's like Amy from Big Bang Theory, that bad.

And even those things I can enjoy, just for the ridiculousness of it. I love it.

 

[- J - D -]

I lost out on a few Citadel side quests because I finished Tuchanka first. Damn, shouldn't have done that.

These, in particular:

Benning: Evidence (Oraka's son)
Citadel: Power Grid
Citadel: Barla Von
Citadel: Biotic Amp Interfaces

Do you guys think I should just reload prior to completing Tuchanka? Are the above side quests worth it?

 

[firehawk12]

You know, if the Protheans were in a galaxy far far away and 50,000 years ago (a long, long time ago)...

..it would be awesome if Protheans had a cameo in TOR.

It's funny, because in the Star Wars universe, they had to deal with an evil force invading from outside the galaxy as well.

I lost out on a few Citadel side quests because I finished Tuchanka first. Damn, shouldn't have done that.

These, in particular:

Benning: Evidence (Oraka's son)
Citadel: Power Grid
Citadel: Barla Von
Citadel: Biotic Amp Interfaces

Do you guys think I should just reload prior to completing Tuchanka? Are the above side quests worth it?

They give small XP bonuses and some war assets. If it's not a big deal to you, it's probably not worth worrying about.

 

[Riposte]

ME3's level design is crazy better than ME2's. Tha

 

[Derrick01]

The game was a lot shorter than I expected.

Sub 30 hours. Overall, it was ok.

Eh I finished in 36 hours which is about 3-4 shorter than it took me with ME1 and 2. But then again ME1 had all those similar looking planets to explore and ME2 of course had the planet scanning. Both of those activities ate up several hours of my 1st playthrough so when I consider there's nothing really like that in 3 it makes up for the slightly shorter time.

I know I certainly had more memorable missions in this game than I did with any of the others.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

This happened right when ME2 came out. Scanning was dumb, but the Mako was far worse. I have no idea how a defense squadron formed over it.

thisisneogafdude.gif

I've made a list of the things NeoGaf doesn't defend. Its a small list:

-Child killers/rapists
-Uh....

Yeah, I think that's about it.

Anyway, these final convos with the team near the end here are pretty damn great. This ending must be REALLY bad to fuck this up!

 

[Tess3ract]

The problem was the game ME1 FELT bigger. In ME2 and ME3 that illusion is nowhere to be found.

 

[- J - D -]

They give small XP bonuses and some war assets. If it's not a big deal to you, it's probably not worth worrying about.

Are they worth a sizeable amount of war assets or just a small pittance?

 

[Durante]

Maybe these people don't care much about flanking routes? I do feel that the basic combat mechanics have been refined in Mass Effect 3, but I'd pass on the increased mobility in a heartbeat if it meant more robust and open-ended levels with at least a few optional quests that don't involve combat (like the planets Feros and Noveria in Mass Effect). Most of the levels so far have felt like fairly straight-forward shooting galleries without any respite from the constant action and I think it gets a bit tedious.

Very well said.

You mean fumbling around in the Mako and stumbling upon some non-descript pyramid asset wedged into the environment? You romanticize ME1 too much.

I also miss that. And I replayed ME1 not too long ago, so it's not just nostalgia. ME1 felt like a space opera RPG, ME2 felt like a corridor shooter. So far, ME3 feels like a better corridor shooter -- to be fair, with a lot more RPG-like customization. But even fewer conversations and quests not involving shooting waves of things.

 

[derFeef]

I lost out on a few Citadel side quests because I finished Tuchanka first. Damn, shouldn't have done that.

These, in particular:

Benning: Evidence (Oraka's son)
Citadel: Power Grid
Citadel: Barla Von
Citadel: Biotic Amp Interfaces

Do you guys think I should just reload prior to completing Tuchanka? Are the above side quests worth it?

Wait, they vanish? I have no idea where they are as I suspect them to open after the next big mission. What am I missing here on the Galaxy map?

 

[Coxswain]

It's been 5 years or whatever, but I remember doing it quite a bit during my Insanity run in ME1. You couldn't use the Mako to attack because the Mako's damage did not scale with the rest of the game - it would blow up quickly and the cannon would do less damage than your actual weapons.

The only significant combat areas where you could use the Mako were the small chain of sidequests where you had to fight off Geth camps, or were part of story missions (and every single story mission with a Mako segment was a straight line, or two straight lines that fork and don't intersect, on Virmire).

Other than that, occasionally there would be like five or six guys standing around near the entrance to a prefab building, there were a handful of areas where you had to fight a couple rocket turrets, and there were Thresher Maws (and every single one of those takes place on literally the same patch of ground, with a different ground texture). I don't think the perception of having options with the Mako matches up to the reality of it.

I just don't believe that anyone can honestly argue that this game doesn't feel cramped compared to Mass Effect 1. The citadel is an obvious example, but the general dungeon design is more or less the same story. I'm still relatively early in the game, so maybe it changes, but for now I don't see a large difference compared to ME2. Adding scripted jumps and verticality does not change the linearity of the layouts.

If Mass Effect 3 is cramped, then Mass Effect 1 was a sardine can. Therum, Feros, Noveria, all of Ilos except for one or two rooms, and the Citadel were all rooms with small, linear playspaces connected by narrow hallways. The uncharted worlds were just blank open spaces with barely anything to do, and the prefab buildings were cramped as hell. Virmire was the only place that had some open areas, and even then much of it was corridor -> Small room -> corridor. By the end of just the first act of ME3, between

Spoiler

Palaven's moon

and

Spoiler

Tuchanka's Cure the Genophage mission

you've seen more large and open play spaces than the entireity of ME1.

 

[Durante]

Therum, Feros, Noveria, all of Ilos except for one or two rooms, and the Citadel were all rooms with small, linear playspaces connected by narrow hallways.

I would have to check to see if this is true, but I'll just take your word for it. But you know what? It doesn't really matter if this is technically the case, what matters is that the citadel felt suitably sprawling in each of my ME1 playthroughs, while in ME3 it's reduced to a few tiny floors.

 

[- J - D -]

Wait, they vanish? I have no idea where they are as I suspect them to open after the next big mission. What am I missing here on the Galaxy map?

Some of the sidequests will vanish after certain Priority Missions, some will remain because the required star system hasn't opened yet. It's hard to tell which because the game's Journal is so useless.

I was clumsy. I already picked up the needed items to complete the sidequests, now I can't complete them because of the Citadel mission that starts after you finish Tuchanka.

Fuck it, I'm reloading. I'm too OCD to allow the game to fuck me on these sidequests. It's only, what, 3 hours of gameplay I'll have to do again.