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Mass Effect 3 |OT| Space Jesus Returns (tag all spoilers)

I'm sure it could be argued (probably by someone from Bioware) that this more loose structure was used to capture the desperation and improvised nature of the war effort but it just seems like a very obvious development time saver to me.

it was the same with the DLC for ME2. It also allows them to parse a lot more (automatic) dialogue without freezing players in place (AND free the plot from player control as a bonus..). Which allows players to get the hell out and onto the priority missions, if they so desire. As you may note, characters tend to talk a lot faster in 'free mode' than they do while in the ME1-2 fashion.

It's a clear continued design choice as far I can tell, which may factor into the desired atmosphere that you note. Not sure that is intentional though, as not-talkable characters would also have discussions in ME1 and 2 that you would overhear.
 

- J - D -

Member
The graphics are worse? Could've fooled me. The new lighting model is leaps and bounds better than in the previous entries in the series.
 

Zeliard

Member
The game has almost as much dialog as ME1 and 2 COMBINED, that is blatantly not true.

Yeah, they did scale down the dialog trees. You aren't going to get 5 options that lead into multiple options a lot like the previous games, but instead everyone on the normady has quips to say after literally every single mission, on top of moving around the ship and talking to other people. There's a ton of detail put into everyone, much more than ever before.

The dialogue is much funnier and sharper than it was in the past, and squad mates and other crew members chat with each other far more. In ME2 you'd go to the same exact spot on the Normandy every time to chat with squad members who often had nothing new to say after a mission. It was so mechanical and repetitive. But people prefer that, apparently, lol.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
To say that nothing new is learned about your party members isn't true. Granted, there aren't any earth-shattering revelations, but there are small details that further deepen what we know about returning party members. Aside from James, the new squad mates have a great deal to say and to inform us about themselves, particularly J
avik
and
EDI
.

ME3 also gives us a lot of updates on former squad mates. Wrex, Grunt, Samara, Jacob, etc, there's something new about each of them.
DLC character is DLC though. You don't learn much from James, and
EDI is technically not new. But she does ask a few questions every once in a while.

Anyone find the Kaklisaur skull? I was never able to find that on any mission.
You have to scan some planet, I think.
 
The game has almost as much dialog as ME1 and 2 COMBINED, that is blatantly not true.

wikipedian_protester.png


I feel like I get to choose between two dialog options about 20% of the time that I should have a dialog tree begin and neither of those two options mean anything at all.

I'm glad there are more people like you. I'm baffled at how some people are praising this game so high & over the previous two games. Outside the slightly better combat, the game is just flat out inferior than them.
Graphics, controls, levels, rpg elements, side missions, dialogue & story.

It's been so streamlined down on the gameplay front that it absolutely destroys the game for me. ME2 fell into the same trap. It's basically just another in the endless list of mediocre third person shooters with regenerating health, and Uncharted has better writing and cooler set pieces so I might as well just go play that instead.

Say what you want about Dragon Age 2, but there was very little streamlining of the core item and character building mechanics of the game. Short of the removal of full armor customization for your party, it was better (IMO) than DAO in terms of the variety of skills and their effectiveness, complexity and synergy in combat. The overall structure of the game wreaked of rushed out garbage, but at least it wasn't completely and utterly dumbed down garbage.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
The dialogue is much funnier and sharper than it was in the past, and squad mates and other crew members chat with each other far more. In ME2 you'd go to the same exact spot on the Normandy every time to chat with squad members who often had nothing new to say after a mission. It was so mechanical and repetitive. But people prefer that, apparently, lol.

Yeah, I'm really surprised anyone thinks otherwise. I found that the writing of the ME2 characters was already a big step up over 1, but the whole "calibrations" joke is just one example of how squadmates would be in a standstill forcing you to hear the same thing as you keep checking in on them. Garrus specifically did that for the majority of the game, with 3, maybe 4 actual dialog sessions.

wikipedian_protester.png


I feel like I get to choose between two dialog options about 20% of the time that I should have a dialog tree begin and neither of those two options mean anything at all.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-has-40000-lines-of-speech/

"A whole lot, even by Mass Effect standards, as CVG asserts that the previous two games had only 20,000 lines each. So there’s some perspective."
 

megalowho

Member
The Datapad app is pretty neat. Full codex with voiceovers, nice slick interface. The F2P-ish Galaxy at War map game seems alright as well for raising readiness away from the game. Doesn't have planet or war asset descriptions, though.

iVQTOj0bet4o8.jpg
 
The writing and dialogue are so good and better than both ME1 and 2. I can't take the opinion of anyone who says otherwise seriously. It's smart, clever, funny, timed really well, sharp, witty, all the adjectives you can think of. Maybe you didn't go talk to the crew enough after each mission or maybe some key imported characters died in your previous game(s), I dunno.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-has-40000-lines-of-speech/

"A whole lot, even by Mass Effect standards, as CVG asserts that the previous two games had only 20,000 lines each. So there’s some perspective."
And there you go.

40k lines in ME3. 20k in each of ME1 and 2
 

Zeliard

Member
Yeah, I'm really surprised anyone thinks otherwise. I found that the writing of the ME2 characters was already a big step up over 1, but the whole "calibrations" joke is just one example of how squadmates would be in a standstill forcing you to hear the same thing as you keep checking in on them. Garrus specifically did that for the majority of the game, with 3, maybe 4 actual dialog sessions.

Shrug. Faulty memories, or maybe people are coming in with dead characters and so miss a lot of the crew interactions, but there are quite a lot. Almost every combination of character on the Normandy interacts. Joker and EDI, Legion and EDI, Javik and Joker, Javik and Garrus, Javik and Vega, Garrus and Vega, Liara and Garrus, Mordin and Joker, and on and on and on.

I mean shit, people. Give the game credit where credit is due. The mindless hate gets old, especially when people try to bring up the past ME games that did these things far more ineffectively (or didn't do them at all), and then start bawling when people bring up the notion of rose-colored glasses.
 

MechaX

Member
Okay, so I think I am at the end game.
The only thing I have left on my journal is to assault Cerberus HQ.

I also know that your EMS determines what ending you get. I have 3500 which means I pretty much have to play the multiplayer to boost my Readiness Rating and EMS (BioWare, what in the fuck where you thinking?)

When considering that I don't have XBLA Gold and I only have that 48 hour pass thing, exactly how long would it take to get my Readiness rating up to an acceptable level?
 

user_nat

THE WORDS! They'll drift away without the _!
Outside of some character models, the graphics seemed improved to me.
I also feel it had more interesting/prettier level design than the previous two games.
 

Sojgat

Member
The game has almost as much dialog as ME1 and 2 COMBINED, that is blatantly not true.

Yeah, they did scale down the dialog trees. You aren't going to get 5 options that lead into multiple options a lot like the previous games, but instead everyone on the normady has quips to say after literally every single mission, on top of moving around the ship and talking to other people. There's a ton of detail put into everyone, much more than ever before.

I'm not saying it has less dialog, I am saying the dialog trees have been scaled down compared to the previous games and most conversations are just straight line readings now. Take the fetch quests for example in ME2 these resulted in a dialog tree conversation, in ME3 an NPC will just say thank you and launch into an ingame line reading. It seems less structured like this to save on time developing everything as dialog trees.

I actually never said anything about the quality of the dialog at all. It is all pretty well written and sounds natural when delivered by the actors, my problem is with the story itself.
 
Another thing I absolutely hate about this game is that the story is structured EXACTLY the same as Mass Effect 2.

The intro & ending of the game involve the core story of the game & everything in between involved ZERO of it.
After you leave Earth, you literally start doing tasks involving squabbles, alliances & non-Reaper conflicts. It was a glorified re-skin of gathering squad mates throughout the game in ME2.

Outside Palivion & Thessia, there was pretty much nothing about what's happening to the Planets, to the Reapers reasons, their strategies, plans of attacks, consequences & any indirect contacts/attacks.

The closest thing was the codex updating you on the Crucible.
 

Parham

Banned
Okay, so I think I am at the end game.
The only thing I have left on my journal is to assault Cerberus HQ.

I also know that your EMS determines what ending you get. I have 3500 which means I pretty much have to play the multiplayer to boost my Readiness Rating and EMS (BioWare, what in the fuck where you thinking?)

When considering that I don't have XBLA Gold and I only have that 48 hour pass thing, exactly how long would it take to get my Readiness rating up to an acceptable level?

You will need to play about six or seven complete matches.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Okay, so I think I am at the end game.
The only thing I have left on my journal is to assault Cerberus HQ.

I also know that your EMS determines what ending you get. I have 3500 which means I pretty much have to play the multiplayer to boost my Readiness Rating and EMS (BioWare, what in the fuck where you thinking?)

When considering that I don't have XBLA Gold and I only have that 48 hour pass thing, exactly how long would it take to get my Readiness rating up to an acceptable level?

You gain ~4% per completed match on bronze atleast. I find Bronze really easy as well, so even getting three or four wins will push it up a good amount.

I'm not saying it has less dialog, I am saying the dialog trees have been scaled down compared to the previous games and most conversations are just straight line readings now. Take the fetch quets for example in ME2 these resulted in a dialog tree conversation, in ME3 an NPC will just say thank you and launch into an ingame line reading. It seems less structured like this to save on time developing everything as dialog trees.

Well yeah. They did scale back dialog trees, I just find the notion of saying it was to save time on development to be crazy when the game as is always has twice as much as either of the other games. It was clearly a design choice, though I can see why it isn't one everyone may like.
 
http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-has-40000-lines-of-speech/

"A whole lot, even by Mass Effect standards, as CVG asserts that the previous two games had only 20,000 lines each. So there’s some perspective."

I think we are talking about something different here. There is a difference between total number of lines of dialog spoken by characters that are out of your control and depth and structure of conversation trees. Perhaps I simply haven't played enough of it, but dialog choices are few and far between and typically only come down to two options and an occasional investigate tab. I don't remember ever having my Shepard say so many things in the last two games that were completely disconnected from a choice on the dialog wheel by me. It feels like the conversations are just cutscenes more than half the time with absolutely no input from me at all.
 
I'm going to dissect this a bit as many of the complaints are quite petty or simply inaccurate:

- only one hub world
This isn't a bad thing. It makes the Citadel feel all-encompassing and integral to the story. It would've been nice to go to Omega or something, I agree. Not a HUGE deal, tho.

- very few paragon/renegade choices
Just because the text isn't blue/red doesn't mean the choices aren't paragon/renegade. You still get points for non-colored paragon/renegade dialogue choices. So this is completely false.

- talking to Hacket/Anderson after every mission and having them say the same basic thing makes the game seem repetitive in a way the first 2 never did
I didn't feel that way but I can't argue this one as it's opinion.

- Graphics: the darkest I have ever seen, everything is just a black smudge even with brightness at its highest setting, no filmgrain
The image quality is so good for the PC version. Who cares about film grain

- no holstering weapon, giving limitited FOV and breaking immersion, unexpected because it seemed like such a trademark feature of the original games
Holstering animation... whatever. Yeah it's annoying to run around with your gun pointed out during missions but you get used to it. This is a petty complaint.

- story: no spoilers but there is just a lack of consistency and respect for things established in the first 2 games
This is bs. So many of the choices you made in ME1 and 2 come into play in 3. How can you say this with a straight face?

- slow motion sequences (just terrible)
So far I've encountered 2 of those slow motion sequences and they each lasted about 2 minutes and I've probably put over 30 hours into the game already. Extremely petty.

- eavesdropping: this was in ME2 to small some degree, but here it is everywhere. Every conversation you overhear=fetch quest. Conversations that you overhear the next part of every time you visit an area is just such a jarring design choice.
I actually loved how we didn't have to OCD click on every NPC to get a new quest. There is definitely one thing I didn't like about these dynamic conversation... when you have heard the entire tree, why does it restart? Why can't the NPCs go away? For example, that one who wants a transfer to the Reaper front instead of Cerberus... once I hear the whole tree, how bout she ships off? But she doesn't, it just restarts. This took away some of the immersion in the Citadel.

- world design: I have been to 3 different gameplay worlds in a row which all have the same external environment (snowy mountains)
I dunno, I didn't notice this.

- loading times in armor custimization screen are ludicrous
Load times are incredibly fast for the PC version. None whatsoever in the armor customization screens and the regular load screens are about 2 seconds or less. Huge improvement for me. I'm stunned how they got the load times down so much...literally 2 seconds or less to load huge areas like switching floors in the Citadel. I'm sure it sucks for the console versions, tho.

-universe map: limited interaction, no sidequests (now you just discover items for fetch quests)
True

- N7 missions: are the multiplayer maps (so these are basically what Bioware is counting as sidequests).
First of all, there are a lot of side quests (actual quests, where you land) that are NOT N7 missions. Second, what does it matter if these were MP maps? It's more like the MP is just story side quests instead of the story side quests just being the MP. They also each have a back story and add to your war assets.

- Importer won't recognize my ME2 saves that were carried over from ME1 (and I always use default Shep so it isn't that) but will recognize saves that started from scratch in ME2
Worked perfectly for me.

Haven't beaten it yet so I dunno but from the posts in here I'm sure it's not good.
 
Another thing I absolutely hate about this game is that the story is structured EXACTLY the same as Mass Effect 2.

The intro & ending of the game involve the core story of the game & everything in between involved ZERO of it.
After you leave Earth, you literally start doing tasks involving squabbles, alliances & non-Reaper conflicts. It was a glorified re-skin of gathering squad mates throughout the game in ME2.

Outside Palivion & Thessia, there was pretty much nothing about what's happening to the Planets, to the Reapers reasons, their strategies, plans of attacks, consequences & any indirect contacts/attacks.

The closest thing was the codex updating you on the Crucible.

This is a good point and one I totally agree with you about, SYNW. I've still got a quarter left to go but still don't know a lot about the Reapers. I figured the third game would really focus on them more and pull back the curtain, so to speak.

With that said, I love the story so far and feel it's way better than ME2 and about on par with ME1 or slightly worse. It would have just been nice to know more about the Reapers. I don't need some big evil villain leading them to explain it but just more info from actual missions and not the codex.
 
ME3 is soo much better than ME2, can't believe people argue otherwise. Only things I dislike are nitpicky, the journal and the citadel missions. Oh and the ending is complete garbage that ruins the entire series.
 

Sojgat

Member
Holstering animation... whatever. Yeah it's annoying to run around with your gun pointed out during missions but you get used to it. This is a petty complaint

I complain about his because its not just that you put your weapon away, but the camera pulls back and you can take in the world better.

Load times are incredibly fast for the PC version. None whatsoever in the armor customization screens and the regular load screens are about 2 seconds or less. Huge improvement for me. I'm stunned how they got the load times down so much...literally 2 seconds or less to load huge areas like switching floors in the Citadel. I'm sure it sucks for the console versions, tho

yes on 360 the loading is quite bad. infact if you access armour from the docking bay it often goes into infinite loading loops where the armor never appears at all
 
In a vacuum ME3 is a good game, but when something is built on investment it needs to deliver on it as well. ME3 is one of the most dissapointing games I have ever played and not based on any high expectaions, but just in comparison to the previous games. While combat is slightlty improved in ME3, just about everything else was done better in ME2, including both the gameplay and story. In general the the game just seems rushed:

- only one hub world

- very few paragon/renegade choices

- talking to Hacket/Anderson after every mission and having them say the same basic thing makes the game seem repetitive in a way the first 2 never did

- Graphics: the darkest I have ever seen, everything is just a black smudge even with brightness at its highest setting, no filmgrain

- no holstering weapon, giving limitited FOV and breaking immersion, unexpected because it seemed like such a trademark feature of the original games

- story: no spoilers but there is just a lack of consistency and respect for things established in the first 2 games

- slow motion sequences (just terrible)

- eavesdropping: this was in ME2 to small some degree, but here it is everywhere. Every conversation you overhear=fetch quest. Conversations that you overhear the next part of every time you visit an area is just such a jarring design choice.

- world design: I have been to 3 different gameplay worlds in a row which all have the same external environment (snowy mountains)

- loading times in armor custimization screen are ludicrous

-universe map: limited interaction, no sidequests (now you just discover items for fetch quests)

- N7 missions: are the multiplayer maps (so these are basically what Bioware is counting as sidequests).

- Importer won't recognize my ME2 saves that were carried over from ME1 (and I always use default Shep so it isn't that) but will recognize saves that started from scratch in ME2

- ending

In a vacuum, ME3 woudln't be that great, simply because the narrative wouldn't hold up. I can't imagine playing this game and never having played either of the previous two; things just wouldn't make sense and would feel awkwardly rushed. And in a vacuum and only in a vacuum would some of your complaints hold water - as it is however, most of them do not.

1. You complain there is only one hub world. While the citadel may be geographically smaller than hub worlds in the previous games (Illium, Omega, and... I'm forgetting the third atm?), there is much more to do. Bioware have basically given you a reason to go back to the Citadel after every Priority-grade mission. Also, using the Citadel as a means to interact with party members rather than on the Normandy was a good idea. While we may not have entire missions vis-a-vis the Loyalty missions from ME2 to get to know our characters, I found the Citadel scenes very touching and well written, perhaps more so than many other parts of the ME series.

2. If by Paragon/Renegade choices you mean the red/blue choices that you only get when reaching a certain amount of reputation, then I'd agree that yes there are few of them - but there were never many in the other games, either. These are meant as a "reward" of sorts for players who have basically stuck with one way or the other throughout the game. As far as making choices that net you either Renegade or Paragon points, i.e. choices on the right half of the wheel, there are plenty of those. In fact, they are much better done than in the previous ME games. Rather than giving you two polar opposite choices, the responses seem much more plausible. I play a Renegade Shep, but there are a few times when the Paragon choice is something I feel my character would choose over the Renegade option. In ME1/2, usually the Paragon choices were so Goody Two-Shoes it never felt like "my" character, however in ME3 they've constrained Shepard's responses in such a way that you can actually deviate from your alignment and feel like your character would say/do those things.

3. Only when Hackett/Anderson initiates the conversations do they say "new" things, otherwise you just have the option to go through the conversation wheel with them. While some of the time I will agree that the dialogue does feel a bit repetitive (i.e., all the "Good going Shepard..." talks), talking with Hackett after every mission does help to keep you focused on saving Earth and bring what you just did on your mission back into perspective. Could have been better, sure, but hardly a deal breaker.

4. Change your TV/Monitor settings. Granted, I am playing the PC version, so graphics are expected to look much better. On that topic, and having all the previous ME games on PC as well as Xbox, I think ME3 is a gorgeous game. I had begun to doubt whether Bioware could really make a good looking game, especially on PC, after the ridiculously muddy textures of ME1/2 and the ho-hum graphics of DA:O. DA2's stylistic look was nice, but it was poorly optimized for PC (I can max out ME3 but not DA2?), and not "technically" impressive. On ME3, Bioware made the textures much, MUCH better, and gave us the most colorful and visually diverse entry in the series. That was actually my biggest gripe with ME2 was how repetitive everything looked (want some more orange tinting?). The graphics reach a high mark in this game for the series, as well as Bioware games in general. In addition, the game looks better than most of its contemporaries - Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, Kingdoms of Amalur, and the Diablo 3 (beta). It can't hold a candle to The Witcher 2, but then again only Crysis 2 really can. The art design is also the best its ever been in the series.

5. How does holstering a weapon "break immersion?" In pretty much every combat mission, there are no scenarios in which Shepard would realistically holster his weapon. The missions are pretty much all combat, and there are no situations in which an enemy might not pop out and try to gank you. Therefore, he's perfectly justified keeping his gun out at all times on combat missions. It was nice that they gave Shepard his casual outfit for the Citadel, where its pretty unlikely he'll see action. I don't think the FOV thing is really an issue that people are affected by, but if it bothers you so much, you can change it on PC through some editing of the config files. Easy to do and not a big deal.

6. Lack of consistency? One of the things ME3 does so impressively (and ME2 did for that matter) was take a character that was partly user-created and carry his personality over through two sequels. It does amaze me to some extent that Bioware were able to keep Shepard the same guy he was, going all the way back to ME1. As far as the narrative being consistent, you're given a chance to catch up with pretty much ever major character from ME1 and ME2, and given a good back story/mission to find out what they've been up to since you saw them last. I thought with little exception that their respective stories were entirely consistent with their character and stories in ME1/2. I'd go into specifics but that would be spoilerific. If you have a specific example though, I'd like to hear it. You don't provide any other criticisms of the story past the "lack of consistency" argument, but I'll go on record as saying ME3 probably ties ME1 in terms of how well the story is done. I think ME1 has a slight edge on it considering how new and novel things were, but as the bookend of this trilogy I think ME3 stands on its own legs narratively. Sure, the pace of the game feels a bit awkward considering you should be effing the Reapers up most of the time, but if the game was solely focused on that we'd have a pretty short game. I think Bioware did a great job of interweaving story/side quest bits in light of the impending doom of the galaxy, and maintaining the sense of urgency you should have for the most part. ME2 had basically no story except that of your squad mates.

7. Honestly I don't even really know what you're talking about here. The dreams? I thought those were pretty well done. Something new for the series, certainly. Its nice to see Shepard show some signs of the war weighing on him, he felt a bit inhuman in the previous games. If you're talking about the game play bits where sometimes the action slows down so you can shoot/dodge/whatever, then those are so short and insignificant that it is petty to complain about them. That'd make just about as much sense as saying the part where you walk through the scanner to get back to the galaxy map "ruins" ME3 because it is annoying and takes 3 seconds.

8. This is pretty much the only point I tend to agree with you on. Getting "side quests" through eavesdropping is obviously the result of Bioware being short on development time. All things considered, though, I'm glad this is where the game took the hit rather than in other areas. The "quests" you get from eavesdropping are never more than stupid fetch quests, which are never more than scanning planets under a different name. I understand the need to implement some kind of "grinding" in order for the game to properly feel like an RPG, however. How dumb would it be, though, if you had entire conversations with people that led to a "mission" where you just launched a stupid probe? I think Bioware could have found a completely different mechanic to implement this feature...

9. The world and level design are at their best in ME3. I don't know which planets you're talking about (care to specify?), but earlier in the game the order you do things in is pretty open ended. If you went to three planets in a row that looked similar (which I doubt they did), that might be your specific experience - not that of the general public. The world/level designs in ME3 for the most part have captivated me unlike any other RPG I've played in recent memory, Skyrim included. The Palaven moon? I'd name other places but they're probably spoilers, so I'll just say that there is more diversity in this game than any other Mass Effect game - which is appropriate considering ME's Star Trek roots. Furthermore, level design as a game play function is also at its best in ME3. ME2 was a joke, every battle played exactly the same. Take cover, use powers, shoot, move up. ME3 completely rewrites the book on how battles are executed. If you're finding otherwise, then you're probably playing it on too easy of a setting.

10. Not sure what you're talking about because I'm playing on PC once again, but this really seems like a nitpicky issue. How often do you customize your armor? After every mission? I've customized my armor what I consider to be a fair amount, and I'd say I've done it less than 10 times in a game that's 40 hours long or so. This is really a stupid complaint.

11. The N7 missions weren't side quests? What else were you expecting from the universe map? It does all the things it did in previous games, without the annoying parts (planet scanning in ME2), and they even added a sort of mini game to make it less boring (Reapers). Otherwise, the universe map is the same its always been.

12. Yes, Bioware reused the levels from the N7 missions for multiplayer, or vice-versa if you like. I too find this annoying to a degree. I'd prefer the multiplayer to take place somewhere completely different than the single player so it might feel fresh and new. I'm guessing that Bioware chose to incorporate the multiplayer levels back into the story to pad the single player a bit. On the other side, putting multiplayer-like missions in the single player campaign makes sense, so that when people play they know the levels, etc.

13. I'm sorry the game won't import your Shepard. You wouldn't want to hear what I went through to get my Shepard's face into the game (hint: it involved an Xbox-to-PC save converter, two different save editors, 2 Xboxs, purchasing all the DLC for ME2 on PC, and buying three different copies of Mass Effect 3). Bioware clearly fucked up badly here. Although in your specific argument, I think you're experiencing something unique - which makes me think you're just doing something wrong. The game won't import your face if you're coming from an ME1 Shepard, because it never saved the "face code" you used in ME1, and that's what it bases the face in ME2 off of. How the hell no one at Bioware thought to play test the game with a Shepard imported from ME1 is beyond me. Also, the Xbox version of the game will not import your save if it is in the cloud, or if you transferred it from the cloud. This has been all over the internet with pretty detailed instructions as to how to fix/get around it. If you're here on Neogaf but haven't figured out how to get around it, then I don't know what to say to you.

14. I haven't finished the game yet (trying to get my readiness level up to 100% - almost there! It really will probably only take me ~2 hours of online play), so I can't say anything about the ending. I can sympathize to a degree with Bioware in that ending something this massive can never be easy - I just hope they didn't worry so much about pleasing everybody and wrote some kind of a strong finish...

Anyways, this was super long, so I apologize to anybody whose actually read it all. Seriously though Sojgat, you come off as a bandwagoner. Everybody (and by everybody I mean everybody here on the internet) is jumping down Bioware's throat about this game, and I'm really failing to see the issue. I'm pretty critical of games, especially RPGs, and I was surprised with how good ME3 is. You're complaining over the most minute issues that really don't detract from the experience as a whole.
 

Zen

Banned
Yeah, I think
this choice seriously depends on who is around. Wrex and Eve? Definitely. Wrex alone? I'm going to play favorites and say "yes". Wreav and Eve? Maybe, if Eve can counter him well enough. Wreav alone? Sorry, but it's just no good for the galaxy for krogans to be around if he's leading them during a weakened period for everyone.

I'm having a very hard time coming to a decision on this and I'm hoping to get some help/perspective, not necessarily spoilers on how your decision ultimately plays out (Though saying if the implications aren't really touched on in the game is fine.

Huh, I didn't even realize that Eve could be killed and the game would continue. That's seriously cool. My issue is that I'm stuck with Wreave and Eve for obvious reasons. I know how she talks about how 'the females won't allow it' and other such things. This is the argument made for why you should cure the Genophage, but...

I don't think it's enough. I mean what could the females really do? If worst comes to worst they could be restrained and forced to breed. Or Wreave could easily go back on what ever he would tell Eve that would get her to insure that the females co-operated and breed. Wreave sort of intimates that he's more interested in empire building than Galactic Domination, but what about whomever succeeds him? Eve can only do so much to try and birth a cultural revolution when the leader, and essentially all of the males, are still the ones calling the shots. How long until the newfound unity that was brought about by the Reapers collapses, just as it did following the Rachni? This is a race that almost defeated the entire galaxy before and has the birth rates to ensure galactic domination within generations.

Moridin seeks redemption, but I think he's somewhat biased by it. When Eve said taht the Krogan were a great civilization, and Moridin blindly lays the balme for the collapse of Tuchanka at the hands of the Silarians, that just shows how his blinders are on.

But he's a great character, and the cruelest thing I could do would be to let him die in vain.

After completing that mission and reading
the silarian message that followed
I could actually feel a naught in my stomach. Such a shitty situation when
Wrex is dead
.
 
I miss the neutral option. I can understand why they'd remove it; the shear amount of choices x2 + a third option is nuts. But a lot of the times was like either; "FUCK YOU! or "YEA THAT'S GREAT!" I want "Eh, ok"
 

Dresden

Member
ME3 is my favorite game in the series. I can think of quite a few flaws, but overall, it was a great game outside of the ending, which with some time I've been able to distance myself from. It doesn't hurt so much anymore.
 
5. How does holstering a weapon "break immersion?" In pretty much every combat mission, there are no scenarios in which Shepard would realistically holster his weapon. The missions are pretty much all combat, and there are no situations in which an enemy might not pop out and try to gank you.
In the mission with the ex-Cerberus scientists, without leaving the area (going through a door, etc) to go from holstered to weapon ready a load screen just pops up. I think this happens twice.

When you are navigating the environment, being able to pan the camera independently of the character's facing helps a lot. Not being able to holster your weapon robs you of this option.

It also underlines an issue I have with the game: there is no exploration in this game. You are either in a combat mission or in a limited non-combat area talking or eavesdropping on NPCs. There is never an area that you are exploring where an ambush or other combat encounter can actually surprise you.
 

Zeliard

Member
I miss the neutral option. I can understand why they'd remove it; the shear amount of choices x2 + a third option is nuts. But a lot of the times was like either; "FUCK YOU! or "YEA THAT'S GREAT!" I want "Eh, ok"

Those were the Paragon/Renegade choices in past games, which were always mocked for being so extreme. There are still some extremes but the dialogue choices in general are now a lot more reasonable; a neutral option is largely pointless because the regular dialogue choices are now much closer to the center. Renegade Shep in ME3 is mostly just pragmatic and most of his decisions and bits of dialogue reflect that and make sense given the plot.
 

Sojgat

Member
I'm sorry the game won't import your Shepard. You wouldn't want to hear what I went through to get my Shepard's face into the game (hint: it involved an Xbox-to-PC save converter, two different save editors, 2 Xboxs, purchasing all the DLC for ME2 on PC, and buying three different copies of Mass Effect 3). Bioware clearly fucked up badly here. Although in your specific argument, I think you're experiencing something unique - which makes me think you're just doing something wrong

Yes and I think I have figured out what it is. A while ago on a whim I downloaded the comicbook decision making DLC for ME2 I'm guessing it has something to do with this. The games I played using this are the ones that work. The ME2 saves based on my ME1 playthroughs aren't recognised even though thay are all still on my hard drive. So I am missing out on a lot of little things like Conrad verner. This is on 360 by the way.

Also just so I'm clear I didn't hate this game, and I don't want to come off as a "bandwagoner". I have played through the first two games many times and love them both. I just found ME3 to be dissapointing and rushed
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Or maybe they realized that people rarely picked the neutral option, and so it was scrapped. Plus, sometimes you'd just get +2 rep that didn't go either way.
 
So just beat the game, Mass Effect 1 & 2 are two of my favourite games and I pretty much loved 99% of 3.

But...those last 10 minutes...I don't even know what to say. Felt like we had the perfect ending then...yeah, ending lived up to the hype
 
So many people keep asking about the point of no return thing. Its not something you have to worry about if you listen to dialog. Hacket will brief you on the mission and ask you, "Are you ready to move forward? Once we do this the final battle will have to happen right away."

So don't worry if you are going to hit start it and not realize it.
 
If you don't spend the time exploring the ship and hub areas after every mission, you miss out on a lot of dialogue and character progression and risk having a much cheaper experience. These aspects are actaully unquestionably handled more sophisticatedly than in previous games.

I like the way the game really doesn't hold your hand. It's up to you to solve the quests you get from overhearing conversations. It's up to you to keep exploring to hear conversations continue or experience new stuff with your crew.

Quite risky that there's so much content you're never pointed to in any way, but it makes the world feel more real to me.
 
I think one of the funniest things about the game mechanically is that for all intents and purposes they scrapped the reputation/alignment system, and just left the bar for you to fill up. I don't really have a problem with just getting dialogue options, but the basically... vestigial point system was just kind of...weird.

As for the decreased dialogue options with party members, I honestly feel like not much was lost, except that I didn't go into a 'cinematic' perspective with a dialogue wheel full of topics I'd already discussed with the party member every time I talked to them. I kind of preferred knowing that I was actually in for a new conversation when I'd transition into that mode in ME3.
 
I didn't like having less control over the conversations in this game. I felt like I'd often make one of two choices and then just watch a cutscene for a while. I remember talking to Kaiden on the Citadel with my Dude Shepard and half way through one of the choices I made they started hitting on each other. I was like "WHOA, slow down there Shepard, don't want to romance him this playthrough."

I assume having fewer choices allowed them to direct the conversations scenes a lot more detailed than in the previous games where you were if was just a few camera positions and animations.

It just feels like I was sitting watching a cutscene instead of being involved with the conversations in this game.

I'd take my hand off my mouse sometimes when it would go on for too long and occasionally I'd miss one of the insta-choices.
 

mxgt

Banned
The dialogue is generally better but there's so much auto dialogue from Shepard, it's pretty disappointing. There's just a lack of choices.

Seemed to be a lot less chances to be a complete dick renegade as well.
 

Dresden

Member
The dialogue is generally better but there's so much auto dialogue from Shepard, it's pretty disappointing. There's just a lack of choices.

Seemed to be a lot less chances to be a complete dick renegade as well.

I think the level of dickery Renegade Shep can engage in with ME3 is far greater than anything seen before in the series.
 
If you don't spend the time exploring the ship and hub areas after every mission, you miss out on a lot of dialogue and character progression and risk having a much cheaper experience. These aspects are actaully unquestionably handled more sophisticatedly than in previous games.

I like the way the game really doesn't hold your hand. It's up to you to solve the quests you get from overhearing conversations. It's up to you to keep exploring to hear conversations continue or experience new stuff with your crew.

Quite risky that there's so much content you're never pointed to in any way, but it makes the world feel more real to me.

I was thrown off with ME3 in this area, in 2 there were a lot of characters and most of them would have some conversation with you between each mission. But in 3 when I was doing side missions most of the time they would shoot of a one liner where you just stood there and that was it, with a few characters having something better after 2 or 3 missions. But after a main story mission they had more to say, but not every character, I constantly checked in with Ashely and she only had the one scene where she got drunk it seemed like. Everything else was one liners between missions.
 

Zeliard

Member
I was thrown off with ME3 in this area, in 2 there were a lot of characters and most of them would have some conversation with you between each mission.

You're misremembering. They rarely had anything new to say after missions in ME2. Heck, the whole joke about Garrus and his calibrations is due to the fact that he would have nothing new to say to you even after his loyalty mission.
 
You're misremembering. They rarely had anything new to say after missions in ME2. Heck, the whole joke about Garrus and his calibrations is due to the fact that he would have nothing new to say to you even after his loyalty mission.

The difference is that when they did have something to say, it was an actual conversation, whereas in this game, they have tons more to say, but in a way that we have been more or less conditioned to ignore as incidental and unimportant automated dialogue.
 

Antiochus

Member
As of now, after completing two main missions post Mars, there seems to be...relatively "few" squad members available.

Does anyone know whether the number of squad numbers will increase from this point onwards?
 

rozay

Banned
Hahaha jesus at that ending. Don't try to guess it.

I don't think it ruined my opinion of the game or series, but I need to figure out what actually happened before I can have an actual answer. Enjoy the game and don't worry about the ending gripes, everyone who's playing!
 

Zeliard

Member
The difference is that when they did have something to say, it was an actual conversation, whereas in this game, they have tons more to say, but in a way that we have been more or less conditioned to ignore as incidental and unimportant automated dialogue.

Sounds like an individual's problem, not the game's. The idea is to not ignore these conversations, or rather, to not ignore them if you're going to start leveling complaints at the dialogue. They aren't always monologues even when automated and even when it doesn't go to a static camera shot; Shepard tends to respond. If people don't have the patience to sit through it, that's really their own problem.

In the past you'd go to a squad member, and out pops a dialogue screen with the exact same choices as before, over and over again. It made it feel extremely mechanical. There's still some of that with certain crew like the War Room people, but this time around they made it so that if a squad member has something new to say, they will simply say it and it's seamless.

Moreover, the crew interacts with each other throughout the game depending on who you have on board. If people are simply rushing through missions and ignoring this stuff, then yeah, they're going to have a lesser experience.
 
As of now, after completing two main missions post Mars, there seems to be...relatively "few" squad members available.

Does anyone know whether the number of squad numbers will increase from this point onwards?

There are
7
total
(eight characters, but Ashley/Kaiden obviously both won't be there). This includes the DLC character. You also are boned if the returning squad members didn't survive ME2. In theory you could be stuck rolling with only three squadmates if ME2's ending didn't go so well for you and didn't buy the DLC.
 
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