Support NeoGAF

[sflufan]

You see, we are unable to touch Mr. Hudson's mind for we fumble in ignorance, incapable of understanding. He inhabits a realm of existence so far beyond our own that we cannot even imagine it. He is beyond our comprehension.

 

[Rebel Leader]

You see, we are unable to touch Mr. Hudson's mind for we fumble in ignorance, incapable of understanding. He inhabits a realm of existence so far beyond our own that we cannot even imagine it. He is beyond our comprehension.

My compression of him is: he's an idiot

Wow... that was almost too simple

 

[Riggs]

Yeah, I really think he's going to be pretty upset like I am once he gets there. He told me today he's at the point where Cerberus steals the artifact from Thessia, so I know he's getting close. I think next week's show we'll probably close out the episode with ending discussion.

You know, it really just makes me more angry when I think about it. I know most people will accept it and transfer into "apathy mode", but the more I think about the characters, my friendships/relationship, the lore, everything built up to the end, I just get more upset. I cannot get over it. I'm like a perpetual anger machine or something. I actually feel like I'm mourning the loss of all those characters.

*sigh* Fucking bummer man. Fucking bummer.

I feel exactly the same man. We will get through this, we will hold the line.

 

[hateradio]

People don't know this, but the race that first designed the Crucible were really into stylish, affordable, easy to build furniture and seeded the idea of an Ikea in all the future races to come. The Crucible came pre-assembled in a box with a great set of instructions consisting of no words just pictures.

That makes so much sense, everything is made out of particle board.

My compression of him is: he's an idiot

Wow... that was almost too simple

Now jump into the lasers!

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

This could be truely epic. Mods what do you say? Screw TOS I am willing to play, and I will take the ban if I choose wrong. I will hold the line, Tali Zorah vas Normandy.

you're playing a very dangerous game here. Tag begging is not exactly considered cool.

Besides, why would want something like "is a giant space lesbian" or "D stands for Dumbass" and so on? You will never get the tag you want, but you might just get the tag you deserve. And it won't be pretty.

 

[Riggs]

Anyone think Casey Hudson might be Peter Molyneux?

 

[LAUGHTREY]

So do the Batarians live then?

But that would also mean the Reapers would have arrived much sooner.

I had no mention of Batarians in my game except that they got completely dominated in the first attacks, their planet is gone when the game starts.

 

[EatChildren]

Meanwhile, CDP is about to release a content patch that expands the overly short third act of their game with new content, and provides a reworked epilogue sequence that reflects over the decisions you made throughout the game and how they shaped the world.

 

[Moofers]

I feel exactly the same man. We will get through this, we will hold the line.

In Shepard we trust, brother!

BTW, can somebody point me to the origin of this "Marauder Shields" meme? I have been hit and miss in this thread today and I really feel like I'm missing out on something good.

 

[Veelk]

And this is where bringing in the context of how the work was created can help answer questions. We've already seen the facts, not possible evidence based on interpretation, that Bioware wrote this ending in order to generate speculation first and foremost. We've heard them state that they want to set any future Mass Effect games during or before Mass Effect 3, helping us understand why they so drastically altered the galactic landscape. We know the game was delayed and that they had difficulty coming up with a possible ending scenario, and that they went through multiple rewrites throughout the series with regards to the overarching plot, making the bizarreness of the ending more attributable to a rush job than nuance.

The biggest problem with the indoctrination interpretation has more to do with the fact they came out and said it wasn't meant to be implied, even though they were throwing around an ending where you lose control of Shepard, so it's not like they didn't ever think of this idea themselves. And given the fact they wanted to fuel speculation first and foremost, isn't it odd they came out and said that wasn't the ending rather than just say, "That's an interesting theory, ;-)."

And honestly, what's worse? The ending Bioware provided or the possibility that Bioware wants to sell you the real ending in DLC?

Well, I don't really care about what bioware does or anything. I just want mass effect to get the treatment it deserves. Bioware would be very shady if they decided to sell it as DLC, but I care enough about mass effect to go to many lengths to make sure it remains intact.

But as far as the theory goes, I haven't seen them comment on it one way or another, so I'm not sure what your getting at in that they gutted it. They just said they intended the ending to be straight forward. But that was then. What will happen later on? This is the question I originally asked, and it has no bearing on the end of ME3 as we have it now. And that's why bioware's word on this is meaningless. What they intend is only relevant to what DLC they make in the future, and what they intend could very well change in a hundred different ways.

EDIT: Nevermind, saw your post near the end of the previous page. The fact that you admit so much makes it seem more like you're just upset with how Bioware ended the game and less with the validity of the theory itself. And to humor you, how do you explain the Stargazer scene in the context of the indoctrination theory

I'm upset with bioware, but that's not why I feel the indoctrination theory has validity. As I said, it's a hundred different little, ambiguous things that point to it. Any one of them, taken on it's own, is meaningless, but combined all together, I think it has enough credence to at least be a viable possibility. Even if they somehow managed to make the ending make sense, I'd consider it valid, so it's not just a rebellion against bioware. Though I will say this much, I probably wouldn't believe it as much if it wasn't the only theory that made sense.

As for the star gazer thing, it's obviously a look into a distant future that could take any place in time. It could mean goddamn anything at all. I also don't know what joker landing on that planet means. Shepard simply hallicinating what he wants most, the safety of his crew, isn't enough of an explanation for me, so I reject that part of the indoctrination theory. But those don't refute the indoctrination theory in any way.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I had no mention of Batarians in my game except that they got completely dominated in the first attacks, their planet is gone when the game starts.

Well you killed 400,000 of them even while not playing arrival

 

[Riggs]

you're playing a very dangerous game here. Tag begging is not exactly considered cool.

Besides, why would want something like "is a giant space lesbian" or "D stands for Dumbass" and so on? You will never get the tag you want, but you might just get the tag you deserve. And it won't be pretty.

Heh I was joking man

 

[Ammish]

Anyone think Casey Hudson might be Peter Molyneux?

Low blow.

Peter Molyneux isn't that bad.

 

[Robot Pants]

Meanwhile, CDP is about to release a content patch that expands the overly short third act of their game with new content, and provides a reworked epilogue sequence that reflects over the decisions you made throughout the game and how they shaped the world.

All hail CDP. Haven't played Witcher 2 in a while. Time for another run.
Can't wait for their sci-fi game. I hope it's everything I wanted Mass Effect to be.

 

[jackdoe]

Meanwhile, CDP is about to release a content patch that expands the overly short third act of their game with new content, and provides a reworked epilogue sequence that reflects over the decisions you made throughout the game and how they shaped the world.

For free. I bought the game for full price when it came out, haven't had time to get very far in the months since, and don't feel like I misspent my money at all.

 

[megalowho]

Regarding Casey's comments... bittersweet is a strange word to describe that ending. Yes, there are no more Mass Effect games to play, and the game was 98% great. Sucks that the ride is over after all these years.

From a narrative perspective, destroying the universe via Deus Ex Machina with zero regard to player choice is just shitty. Your work in uniting races and ending conflicts is thrown out the window, concepts are introduced that betray established themes and your final options are colored by plot holes, limited technical resources and literal colors allowing the player the most minor of variations in outcome.

I wish the ending was bittersweet, that would have been the perfect emotion to feel. Maybe for others it was. I've honestly lost interest in any DLC that adds new mid-game locations to save, the outcome is so meaningless. Meaningless, not bittersweet.

 

[Rebel Leader]

In Shepard we trust, brother!

BTW, can somebody point me to the origin of this "Marauder Shields" meme? I have been hit and miss in this thread today and I really feel like I'm missing out on something good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467pmIX-oZo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[sflufan]

Meanwhile, CDP is about to release a content patch that expands the overly short third act of their game with new content, and provides a reworked epilogue sequence that reflects over the decisions you made throughout the game and how they shaped the world.

Are they really reworking the epilogue as well?

 

[Riggs]

All hail CDP. Haven't played Witcher 2 in a while. Time for another run.
Can't wait for their sci-fi game. I hope it's everything I wanted Mass Effect to be.

Their making a sci fi game???

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Anyone think Casey Hudson might be Peter Molyneux?

Molyneux really gets far too much undeserved hatred on his person. Yes, he likes ideas and he want to share them. But he also gets closer to actually making them than anyone else.
As much as indys are all "we are creative and such", they never deliver on their own ideas in quite as grand a scale as Molyneux had delivered, time and time again.

Hating him for that.. well, then ME3 really is the game we deserve.

also:
Black & White still needs a Kinect remake. Even as just an XBLA game or something, but fuck me that game needs to come back from the vaults of the dead.

Heh I was joking man

So was Case Hudson when he said the ending wouldn't be A, B and C. (trollface)

 

[Rebel Leader]

Their making a sci fi game???

That's speculative

 

[EatChildren]

Are they really reworking the epilogue as well?

Yep.

Atomic: If you’ve got returning PC players who’ve played the whole way through The Witcher 2, why would they want to come back and play the Enhanced Edition?

Mateusz: Obviously, because we’ve got all this new content, right? Not only two new quests, which I mentioned earlier, we also have completely remade the epilogue of the game, which is a big thing, in my opinion, because, as I said before, we have added those movies which sum up the choices you make throughout the game.

 

[Derrick01]

Anyone think Casey Hudson might be Peter Molyneux?

Nah I think Peter actually believes his bullshit.

Casey and most of the other Bioware guys are masters at reciting their marketing lines over and over again. Remember a while ago, I think during ME2 and maybe even DA2's hype period, every other sentence the doctor's said had "emotionally engaging" in it? Their marketing department comes up with these buzzwords and the heads repeat them over and over until we're hypnotized.

 

[Y2Kev]

CDP doing a sci-fi rpg would just annihilate everything.

 

[sflufan]

Yep.

Oh man, that's great!

 

[Moofers]

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467pmIX-oZo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

That link is broken for me. (Website Suggestions)

 

[Riggs]

Molyneux really gets far too much undeserved hatred on his person. Yes, he likes ideas and he want to share them. But he also gets closer to actually making them than anyone else.
As much as indys are all "we are creative and such", they never deliver on their own ideas in quite as grand a scale as Molyneux had delivered, time and time again.

Hating him for that.. well, then ME3 really is the game we deserve.

also:
Black & White still needs a Kinect remake. Even as just an XBLA game or something, but fuck me that game needs to come back from the vaults of the dead.

Sorry but he's been making the same game for the last 10 years. I find him comical I do not hate him. personally I loved the share ware of Hi-Octane.

 

[Jake Tower]

In Shepard we trust, brother!

BTW, can somebody point me to the origin of this "Marauder Shields" meme? I have been hit and miss in this thread today and I really feel like I'm missing out on something good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467pmIX-oZo&list=LLvxtQENDZE_E6H5niIACfuA&index=6&feature=plpp_video

 

[Rebel Leader]

CDP doing a sci-fi rpg would just annihilate everything.

But then.. I wouldn't be able to play it T_T

 

[Robot Pants]

Nah I think Peter actually believes his bullshit.

Casey and most of the other Bioware guys are masters at reciting their marketing lines over and over again. Remember a while ago, I think during ME2 and maybe even DA2's hype period, every other sentence the doctor's said had "emotionally engaging" in it? Their marketing department comes up with these buzzwords and the heads repeat them over and over until we're hypnotized.

or....INDOCTRINATED?

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Casey Hudson

How is it not bittersweet (Shepard dead or alive), that thousands of years of Galactic society are in ruins (relays destroyed or not), and that every single homeworld is in ruins (Salarians? I don't think it is ever made clear that the Reapers are there, but they are everywhere at the end, so I assume so), and billions of people are dead. Everybody must rebuild. There is certainly no sweet when you cut everybody off from their people, and essentially strand everybody with no way to rebuild the relays, and no way to return in anything but an Asari or Krogan lifetime, if they can even survive.

Mordin's sacrifice was bittersweet, legions sacrifice was bittersweet. The ending is more analagous to the annihilation of the Quarians and Tali jumping off a cliff. There is no sweet there.

And, ah, that is where the endings were. They were scattered throughout the game, rather than at the end of it. I don't really consider those endings, but I guess we might have gotten sixteen endings that way. Unfortunately, because of the above, they are now essentially meaningless, since you know, galactic civilization doesn't exist anymore.

Where was the uplifting part of the ending? Space Magic gives you warm tinglies as it magics your insides away?

New York Times and Penny Arcade like the Game? Wow, so did I, until your ending fucked the whole thing up. Who the fuck liked and was profoundly moved by the ending? I am pretty sure that I haven't heard from anybody who genuinely loves the ending. Mostly everyone hates it. There are those who accept it. And even if people were okay with it, it is full of so many holes that it is impossible to resolve. And it provides no sensible conclusion to the stories. But I guess that our stories were already ended in London, so we don't need to know what happened after the actual ending.

This is quite aside from the failure to implement any consequence of choice, even at the most basic, illusory level. This is aside from the A, B, C, (B,G,R) ending.

And thanks for not answering the fucking question. You have taken feedback into consideration in the past? Fantastic. And I can play as Shepard again? Well ... I don't want to, knowing what's coming.

 

[Rebel Leader]

That link is broken for me. (Website Suggestions)

Sorry... useung a phone may had something to do with that

Edit: I see the problem it has both HTTP & https

 

[Riggs]

How is it not bittersweet (Shepard dead or alive), that thousands of years of Galactic society are in ruins (relays destroyed or not), and that every single homeworld is in ruins (Salarians? I don't think it is ever made clear that the Reapers are there, but they are everywhere at the end, so I assume so), and billions of people are dead. Everybody must rebuild. There is certainly no sweet when you cut everybody off from their people, and essentially strand everybody with no way to rebuild the relays, and no way to return in anything but an Asari or Krogan lifetime, if they can even survive.

Mordin's sacrifice was bittersweet, legions sacrifice was bittersweet. The ending is more analagous to the annihilation of the Quarians and Tali jumping off a cliff. There is no sweet there.

And, ah, that is where the endings were. They were scattered throughout the game, rather than at the end of it. I don't really consider those endings, but I guess we might have gotten sixteen endings that way. Unfortunately, because of the above, they are now essentially meaningless, since you know, galactic civilization doesn't exist anymore.

Where was the uplifting part of the ending? Space Magic gives you warm tinglies as it magics your insides away?

New York Times and Penny Arcade like the Game? Wow, so did I, until your ending fucked the whole thing up. Who the fuck liked and was profoundly moved by the ending? I am pretty sure that I haven't heard from anybody who genuinely loves the ending. Mostly everyone hates it. There are those who accept it. And even if people were okay with it, it is full of so many holes that it is impossible to resolve. And it provides no sensible conclusion to the stories. But I guess that our stories were already ended in London, so we don't need to know what happened after the actual ending.

This is quite aside from the failure to implement any consequence of choice, even at the most basic, illusory level. This is aside from the A, B, C, (B,G,R) ending.

And thanks for not answering the fucking question. You have taken feedback into consideration in the past? Fantastic. And I can play as Shepard again? Well ... I don't want to, knowing what's coming.

We are legion

 

[Derrick01]

or....INDOCTRINATED?

Oooh yeah I like that better. Fits with the theme.

 

[Replicant]

One thing that really annoys me about the ending. When I played the from ashes DLC and saw what asshats the Protheans were, I wanted to play through without waking up Javik, and then after everything, in the aftergame, finally go wake him up.
"Oh... The reapers? We already beat them."
"what?"
"oh yeah, it was horrible though, worst few months of our lives."
"M...My people fought them for centuries."
"Oh. That sucks. Well, but that makes sense, we had that superweapon you guys invented that totally wiped them out. I'm sure you'd have won if you finished it."
"Well actually, we didn't invent it.. It uh was passed down from cycle to cycle."
"Huh? You fought for centuries and couldn't finish it? Oh, well, sorry. You're welcome to come on board our ship, enjoy the afterparty."

Ha! I thought I'm the only one who dislike that douche. He's not even sarcastic funny like EDI. He's just rude and make conversation awkward. If only there's another ending where I can choose to exterminate him instead of EDI and the Geth, I'll take the option. So not waking him up on my 2nd playthrough as Sheploo......if I ever manage the enthusiasm to play another one after seeing the ending on my TV.

 

[Veelk]

Ha! I thought I'm the only one who dislike that douche. He's not even sarcastic funny like EDI. He's just rude and make conversation awkward. If only there's another ending where I can choose to exterminate him instead of EDI and the Geth, I'll take the option. So not waking him up on my 2nd playthrough as Sheploo......if I ever manage the enthusiasm to play another one after seeing the ending on my TV.

I thought the same thing for a while, but I think he gets better later on in the game. The conversation between him and Drunk Tali reveal that's he's just a Tsundere. He all but says "Shut up! Baka!"

 

[hateradio]

Meanwhile, CDP is about to release a content patch that expands the overly short third act of their game with new content, and provides a reworked epilogue sequence that reflects over the decisions you made throughout the game and how they shaped the world.

It would be interesting to see if BW goes back to rework the game, but I don't think they return to things that are already finished. They're typically lazy with patches and once a year hits, they completely ignore the game while focus goes to DLC.

 

[Bisnic]

Ha! I thought I'm the only one who dislike that douche. He's not even sarcastic funny like EDI. He's just rude and make conversation awkward. If only there's another ending where I can choose to exterminate him instead of EDI and the Geth, I'll take the option. So not waking him up on my 2nd playthrough as Sheploo......if I ever manage the enthusiasm to play another one after seeing the ending on my TV.

He turns out not so bad near the end, he stops calling Liara "asari" and he wanted to do a book about protheans with her.

 

[Moofers]

How is it not bittersweet (Shepard dead or alive), that thousands of years of Galactic society are in ruins (relays destroyed or not), and that every single homeworld is in ruins (Salarians? I don't think it is ever made clear that the Reapers are there, but they are everywhere at the end, so I assume so), and billions of people are dead. Everybody must rebuild. There is certainly no sweet when you cut everybody off from their people, and essentially strand everybody with no way to rebuild the relays, and no way to return in anything but an Asari or Krogan lifetime, if they can even survive.

Mordin's sacrifice was bittersweet, legions sacrifice was bittersweet. The ending is more analagous to the annihilation of the Quarians and Tali jumping off a cliff. There is no sweet there.

And, ah, that is where the endings were. They were scattered throughout the game, rather than at the end of it. I don't really consider those endings, but I guess we might have gotten sixteen endings that way. Unfortunately, because of the above, they are now essentially meaningless, since you know, galactic civilization doesn't exist anymore.

Where was the uplifting part of the ending? Space Magic gives you warm tinglies as it magics your insides away?

New York Times and Penny Arcade like the Game? Wow, so did I, until your ending fucked the whole thing up. Who the fuck liked and was profoundly moved by the ending? I am pretty sure that I haven't heard from anybody who genuinely loves the ending. Mostly everyone hates it. There are those who accept it. And even if people were okay with it, it is full of so many holes that it is impossible to resolve. And it provides no sensible conclusion to the stories. But I guess that our stories were already ended in London, so we don't need to know what happened after the actual ending.

This is quite aside from the failure to implement any consequence of choice, even at the most basic, illusory level. This is aside from the A, B, C, (B,G,R) ending.

And thanks for not answering the fucking question. You have taken feedback into consideration in the past? Fantastic. And I can play as Shepard again? Well ... I don't want to, knowing what's coming.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Man, I fucking loved Javik. He is like Renegade Shep of the last Cycle, except much better at what he does. I also thought his character model was boss.

edit: I'm really sad that there is nobody (including Drew Karpyshyn, based on his comments) who would be willing to pull a David Gaider and fix the ending ala Throne of Bhaal. Even if it is just text.

 

[Rebel Leader]

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc22/jpwanabe/gifs/clap.gif[/IM G][/QUOTE]We all feel that way
----
Did you see the marauder shileds video?

 

[jackdoe]

Man, I fucking loved Javik. He is like Renegade Shep of the last Cycle, except much better at what he does. I also thought his character model was boss.

If Javik was the one who made it into the Citadel, he would have resisted the Illusive Man's control, snapped his neck, opened the Citadel, shot Casper in the face, and meditate as the Citadel blew up around him.

 

[Easy_D]

All hail CDP. Haven't played Witcher 2 in a while. Time for another run.
Can't wait for their sci-fi game. I hope it's everything I wanted Mass Effect to be.

Wait what!? CDP? Space? I hope it's RPG related. Like, The Witcher in space. Literally. You could be some space witcher killing space mutants and having sex with every female you see.

 

[Derrick01]

Man, I fucking loved Javik. He is like Renegade Shep of the last Cycle, except much better at what he does. I also thought his character model was boss.

Yeah I gave his crankiness a pass since he woke up in what felt like minutes to him only to find species he looked down on ruling his galaxy.

It'd be like us waking up to find gerbils running the planet. "Back in my day you lived in a fucking cage in my room eating your own shit".

 

[Metroidvania]

Oh Bioware, never change.

@Xaeldaren @batchix what did you want it to say? #curious (PS this discussion re: the endings is not OVER - it's just beginning)

We're totally not sending mixed messages guys, we promise! Keep discussing the ending while we try to think of something concrete to appease the fans!

They're basically saying "You fix our mistakes" at this point.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

If Javik was the one who made it into the Citadel, he would have resisted the Illusive Man's control, snapped his neck, opened the Citadel, shot Casper in the face, and meditate as the Citadel blew up around him.

I brought Javik expressly for that purpose. And then he bailed out to repopulate a jungle planet. Dick. But I guess that is probably in character.

edit: Out of curiosity, how do we check post count stats in threads? I have been doing nothing but raging in this thread for a couple of days, and I'm curious. I know I'm not to Rebel Leader's level, but I wonder if I have crossed 100 yet.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Oh Bioware, never change.



We're totally not sending mixed messages guys, we promise! Keep discussing the ending while we try to think of something concrete to appease the fans!

They lost a lot of fans already

 

[LuchaShaq]

Man, I fucking loved Javik. He is like Renegade Shep of the last Cycle, except much better at what he does. I also thought his character model was boss.

edit: I'm really sad that there is nobody (including Drew Karpyshyn, based on his comments) who would be willing to pull a David Gaider and fix the ending ala Throne of Bhaal. Even if it is just text.

I'm pretty sure when I play through with my renegade lady shep I'm taking him on every mission....then not doing the final mission.

 

[hateradio]

Oh Bioware, never change.

We're totally not sending mixed messages guys, we promise! Keep discussing the ending while we try to think of something concrete to appease the fans!

I know it's not nice or anything but if Renegade Shep taught me anything . . . Someone hack her twitter and deactivate it.

Edit: ASSUME CONTROL!

That would have been a better title than Retake ME3.

 

[EatChildren]

edit: I'm really sad that there is nobody (including Drew Karpyshyn, based on his comments) who would be willing to pull a David Gaider and fix the ending ala Throne of Bhaal. Even if it is just text.

And then Hackett said "Oh wait nope it's firing now lol my bad thanks Shepard" and the Reapers were destroyed.