Empty Space
Member
This is far funnier then it should be.
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
This is far funnier then it should be.
Clean slate for Mass Effect 4,5,and 6. It's not suicide. There will be more games.
The alliance SR2 has a fucking terrible paint job. I'm not sure if the Cerberus one is any better, but if you're going to buy one do not get the alliance version.
heliosRAzi
Banned
lastplayed
Member
The alliance SR2 has a fucking terrible paint job. I'm not sure if the Cerberus one is any better, but if you're going to buy one do not get the alliance version.
Oh man, I knew it wouldn't be perfect, but not that bad. Thanks.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Because the Reapers are too powerfull for that for one.
More importantly though, some of the allure of ME has always been the mystery of the Reapers, it made them scary, and ominous. The thought of something so much bigger than all of us. It is part of what makes looking up at the night sky everynight so engaging in reality. The mystery of it all.
The catalyst, like it or not, brought back the Mystery of ME1 that we all loved so much. There is a presence out there, it has been around for longer than we can imagine, and is so powerful they are godlike in nature. That leaves me wanting to know so much more, more about how they came to be, what shaped thier motivations, where and when they are now etc etc
Rapping it all up with Shepard standing over Harbinger with an M8 in hand saying "Humans, Fuck yeah!" would have been cool, but not what ME has ever been about.
A more thorough explanation on my view of the ending (posted pages back with no response) here.
'Well, I beat the game last week and have been thinking about it a ton, and just last night after watching a friend play the Ranaoch mission (with significantly different results than my Shepard)and the Thessia mission. I have come to the conclusion that I actually like the ending, but do not like the execution.
I like everything up until you choose your option and there is an underwhelming cutscene. IE I dont like the fact that Joker and crew are running for no apparent reason, and I think there should have been a small cut scene showing what happened to Harbinger specifically.
I like the fact that the Reapers were not in fact the ultimate beings in the universe, and that they were in fact an intelligent process by another more advanced race. I don't think this diminishes the Reapers as an enemy, as they are still an almost incomprehensibly powerful species, and without the Crucible surley would have completed the cycle.
I like the idea of the Catalyst, perhaps more than most because it reminds me of an article I had read about a week before finishing the game...
"When you look at the current level at which our own technology is advancing, quantum computing, cloaking technology, robotics, nanotech, communications. It's not really such a far stretch to think that somewhere out there among the trillions of possible life harboring planets, that another intelligent civilization has done the same things. If they had even a 100 year head start on us they would already be so far advanced, now give them a 1000 year head start or even a 1 million year head start. Their technology would be so far in advance of our own. They could literally be here right now. Existing inside and outside of our known reality. Hidden only by a technological barrier. If they were a billion years older than our civilization i doubt we could even comprehend there technology. A type 3 civilization as Michio Kaku says would have the technology to harness the power of an entire galaxy. Who knows what a type 4 civilization would resemble. When you consider how short 1 million years is on a cosmic scale, its not out of the realm of possibilities."-posted on the dailygalaxy.
along with many other theory's and guesses at advanced life in the universe.
I think that the Catalyst being behind the Reapers motivations lives up to Sovereigns promise that their purpose was incomprehensible to us. Sure we can get the gist of it, they are here to harvest all advanced organic life to preserve it as the ultimate end of evolution every 50,000 years. To save it from otherwise being simpley destroyed by synthetics eventually. But their ultimate motivations and the thought process behind them are still not clear.(Give that ME is a story created and written by humans, the Catalyst and its ambiguity was necessary to keep the concept of motivations we can't understand)
Then I started thinking of the motivations of the race that is whatever the catalyst beings are, what are their motivations for wanting to save us? What if it is because ultimately they know (from experience) that evolution will allow another species to "catch up" to them, to be their equal, or otherwise, a competitor. What better way to stop that from happening than the Reaper cycle? Preventing both synthetics and organics from achieving this. Of course in order for this to be the motivation of the catalyst that assumes that there is some lying going on on its end, (Synergy would likely in the end entail some sort of control by the Catalyst, as would the Control option, which is why they are presented as Paragon by the Catalyst) but would that really be suprising?
Or it could be that a species that far advanced had really come to appreciate life, and thought that preserving it via the Reapers was better than all remnants and history of the species being erased from the Universe inevitably by some other force, likely synthetics of their own creation .
This is where the Rannoch mission comes into play, people that got the best outcome for this mission,(as I did) may think that this disproves what the Catalyst says. However after seeing my friend play the same mission, something became clear. From the point of view of the Catalyst war with the synthetics is inevitable. They are right, or at least right enough to be skeptical of any peace that Shepard may have secured for now. The simple fact that all it took was for Shepard to make a couple wrong decisions and the Geth wiped out the Quarians (or visa versa) shows that peace would likely not last forever. The only way they could EVER fully get along is if they were one in the same. (The synergy/singularity ending). Which further indicates that the Catalyst wanted you to select either control, or synergy, not destroy. Yet still gave you the choice, because in the end the Catalyst is likely powerful enough to rectify it if need be.
Are the Catalysts from the Milky way? Or are they capable of traveling with ease between the vastness of dark space, placing Reapers on the rim of every galaxy, and relays throughout each? Harvesting or "preserving" life on a scale that humans cannot begin to comprehend?
I could go on with many theory's, but that is what I enjoyed about the ending of ME3. It had something the rest of ME3 lacked, and something ME2 and especially ME1 had in spades. Mystery. The Catalyst's very existence, something greater than the Reapers, means things are not as simple as Shepard, and galactic civilization as a whole thought. There is always a bigger fish.
Where Bioware went wrong, is execution of these grand ideas. The cutscene with the Normandy did not make any sense, but it could of if they had just filled that little plothole with a small cutscene or line of dialogue, just given Joker and crew a reason to be leaving through the relays. Like being chased by Harbinger for instance, who has a personal vendetta against Shepherd and crew.
A cutscene showing him chasing after one of your squadmates, and then the Normandy doing a pickup, a few ominous lines from Harbinger about how he is going to end this Resistance once and for all by destroying the normandy, and you could easily have them running from him (with every intention of returning) and have the "space magic" from the crucible come from behind as it did, but this time "saving" the Normandy from Harbinger.
2 birds, one stone, Normandy cutscene makes sense, and you get more visual closure on the Reapers and specifically Harbinger, while still keeping the essence of the original ending intact.
That would be more satisfying to me and many others I think, and I made it up as I type this....
There are a couple other smaller plotholes or issues that could be easily patched with a couple cutscenes or lines of dialouge. I would go into them but I feel at this point I am ranting, and I am on my iPad..
All in all, great and brave move for the ending Bioware, half assed execution though.'
That's not a clean slate, that's a clusterfuck with endings that can't be reconciled going forward due to the how divergent each ending is, along with the complete destruction of mass relays causing complete chaos and death. It's the complete antithesis of a clean slate. Keeping the mass relays in tact would have provided a clean slate.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Mushed up paste is the ultimate form of evolution? We know what their ultimate motivation is: to keep synthetics from destroying organics. That is what the Catalyst says outright. TOo bad that we have 3 examples of synthetic life not trying to destroy all organic life: EDI, the geth, and the Reapers themselves since while they do destroy a lot of organic life, they don't destroy all of it.
So synthetics destroy organics to protect organics in order to keep organics from creating synthetics that would destroy organics. It's circular logic and people have already figured out other solutions to the Reaper's "problem"
You are speculating (SPECULATION) based on no evidence whatsoever. Besides, like I said above, we are told what the Reaper's motivations are.
So these synthetics turn organics into a fine paste in order to protect organics from synthetics that would probably turn organics into a fine paste.
It quite does disprove the Catalyst. Never mind the fact that the Reapers helped out the geth by upgrading them.
We have no proof of that since we can't present EDI or the geth as refuations of the Catalysts assertion. From our perspective, it sounds like a lot of bullshit
I'm sorry, but I don't accept that. Throughout the games, we are shown that we should give life, whether organic or synthetic, a chance. We can cure the genophage or save the rachni or achieve peace with the geth. Plus, most of the geth are content with hanging out in space just crunching numbers. They only rebelled because the quarians tried to kill them.
The Catalyst is gone.
SPECULATION
There are recorded lines from Joker saying that he was coming in to the rescue, but they didn't add it in, mostly because SPECULATION
How is ending a trilogy with contradictions and confusing ambiguity brave? Or providing endings that are virtually identical? How is having Shepard act out of character brave?
No matter how you try to justify it, the ending is shit.
Can't you just let other people have their opinion? Every single time someone has come into this thread to say they didn't mind the ending they are asked to try the other endings and flat out told their opinion is wrong. Get used to the fact that not everyone agrees with you and you don't have to refute their opinion just because you didn't agree. It's stifling any discussion and it's just downright annoying to anyone who wants to hear the counter arguments
I H8 Memes
Member
Most people know a shit ending when they see it. Hitman Blood Money and Portal 2, awesome endings. Mass Effect 3 and Deus Ex Human Revolution, utter shit. Most games fall into the average to meh category.
The truth is nobody is going to complain about a bad ending to even an average game. A game has to be pretty good to raise the ire of fans. Mass Effect 3 is still their strongest game in the series gameplay wise, and it has a really strong atmosphere. Atmosphere makes or breaks a game. It the biggest strength of the medium. But it is all ruined by this boring and terrible unnecessarily plodding ending. It's even worse than the Deus Ex:HR ending. At least their ending had more than a different color filter based on your choice.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Thats just like, your opinion bro.
Of course it is speculation, half of Mass Effect has always been about speculation.
What proof do you have that the Catalyst is gone?
and yes, that fine paste and genetic material is the essence of what makes us us. To the Catalyst, preseving that is preferable to complete and utter destruction with no reminants left. I tend to agree, i would rather be a part of a Reaper like Sovereign than be nothng at all. As the Catalyst described, it is the endpoint of our evolution, we are to primitive and toucy feely to accept that. (from the view of more advanced races.)
You accepting it or not is irrelevant. The species that is the Catalyst, whom built the Reapers, are godlike in nature, so far advanced that they make the Reapers look primitive, and have been around for seemingly endless amount of cycles. They have likley seen what shepard accomplished with the Geth/Quarians thousands of times over, peace was made, but it obviously did not last. Who are we to say? Just because a bunch of primitive organics and primitive synthetics were able to get along for the past 2 weeks means that all of the sudden a race who has seen life evolve from nothing, to space fairing species, to extinction, thousands of times over, we now know better than them? No, we dont.
Point being, yes a lot of my post was speculation, and or my opinion. My interpretation of the ending, and well within the bounds of what we know about the ME universe (and the actual universe). Thats what makes it so fun. We dont need everything spelled out for us. Sure a tad more closure and not having the Normandy crew commit cowardice at the end would have been fantastic, and maybe they will fix that. But the Catalyst, the Reapers, and the mystery that the ending outputs is phenomenal in my opinion. I had no reaction at first to the ending, neither negative, or positive. My reaction was silence, and thought. I mulled over my thoughts for about a week, and went back and played the ending and begining of ME3 today. I found enjoyment and satisfaction from the ending, a few minor plotholes and nitpicks aside. (LIke I said, flawed execution).
I haven't finished the game yet. But I had to post this. I couldn't wait.
At the climax of the Cerberus attack on the Citadel I wanted to kill Ashley so badly. I was praying for a Renegade interrupt. "OMG SHEPRUZ R U STILL CERBERUZ OR NOT I JUST DONT KNOW PUT UR GUN DOWN"
Holy flaming fucking shit. If that is a sign of how bad the writing is going to get for the ending then I am going to explode.
The whole game has been this up and down ride of "good" and "poop". The Ashley showdown was steaming poop. Thane and Mordin's deaths were kind of touching.
At the climax of the Cerberus attack on the Citadel I wanted to kill Ashley so badly. I was praying for a Renegade interrupt. "OMG SHEPRUZ R U STILL CERBERUZ OR NOT I JUST DONT KNOW PUT UR GUN DOWN"
Holy flaming fucking shit. If that is a sign of how bad the writing is going to get for the ending then I am going to explode.
The whole game has been this up and down ride of "good" and "poop". The Ashley showdown was steaming poop. Thane and Mordin's deaths were kind of touching.
heliosRAzi
Banned
You can have an opinion, but you have to be prepared to make your case for it and defend it. That's what discussion is and it helps bring out the counter arguments you want.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Indeed, I thought my on the fly idea for the Normandy and Harbinger thing was a pretty good idea, I would love to see that as part of the Ending Initiative.
There are a few smaller plotholes but most could easily be pluged by a small cutscene or a line or two of dialouge.
The negating player choice in my opinion was not a problem as far as the 3 endings go. Those are seperate choices themselves, not a culmination of your choices. Leading up to those 3 choices I would have liked to see more reaction to my choices however, much like ME2 did.
For instance I would have liked to see more of certain war assets showing up in cutscenes depending on which I had, and I would have liked to see some of that relflect on who lived and died towards the end, etc.
Anything after you take the magic elevator though is a seperate choice and a seperate result. No different than when you make a choice on Ronoch and then see a cutscene of the result.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Ashley/Kaidan are terrible. They deserved every bit of the skullbashing they get. Overall the characters are much better, fortunately.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
This is tied back to the old 'leaked' storyline, to some degree where it actually made more sense that they were doubting of you.
With the adjusted storyline, they just come off as incompetent and moronic. There are more good moments to come.
Then there's the ending.
The problem is, the devs themselves hyped up ME3 as saying your choices would have a large impact on the ending. And if, like me, you don't count the whole game as an 'ending', but rather, the specific ending itself, it completely throws preparation and past choices out the window.
All that matters is your choice of color/ideology, despite your 'individual' storyline as Shepard that you've taken.
I mean, yeah, there's a limit to where choice can go in a directed narrative, but there was more room to squeeze stuff in than what the final endings are as of now limit us to.
heliosRAzi
Banned
The Citadel is destroyed in two of the endings.
No, that is not true in any way, shape, form, or paste. If you took a person and put them into a blender, are they still human?
It's an AI
The problem I have with it is that it goes against every the games stood for. Strength through diversity, giving species a chance, self-determination, and all of that and we are told that it's useless in the end because robots will try to destroy all biological life for some reason. No exceptions, despite us seeing three instances where synthetics do not kill all organics.
The games hit us over the head with the idea that we should give all life a chance which is represented by the rachni, the krogan, and the geth, but then that theme is contradicted at the end where the Catalyst tells us that synthetics are bad. It's unsatisfying, dumb, and represents a fault in the writing.
I was hoping for the same thing too when I reached that part. I wanted to blow Kaidan's brains out if given the option. They act all emo throughout the whole game because they're salty about that. It was extremely annoying. What sucks is that you only have about 4 (5 with a romance scene)full fledged conversations with them give or take. They're horribly written in this game.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Could not disagree more. Who told you the creators of the Reapers are an AI? Or are you assuming that just because its appearance is similar to that of a hologram?
Speculation.
Most of the least-important characters are. :/
You can. I'm on my asshole playthrough and just did the citadel attack, shot Ashley and Udina. Fuck 'em both.
It's a computerised being that lives inside the Citadel, how the hell would it be non-synthetic? It can draw its own conclusions, therefore it's not a VI.
heliosRAzi
Banned
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.
HadesGigas
Member
Technically there's nothing that really shows it can draw it's own conclusions. It could be a VI that just has these red/blue/green backup plans pre-loaded up in case anyone ever got to it.
I mean, it probably is some sort of AI, but the game explains nothing.
If we ever manage to transplant human conciousness into a computer is it still human conciousness or is it just AI? It seems like the best way of an organic race extending it's lifespan indefinitely is to leave their physical bodies behind.
(As underwhelming as Caprica was it did explore this idea quite well)
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Theoretically, this could be true, but Occams Razor can't simply be thrown out of the equation due to "speculation".
The Catalyst interposes itself with the reapers at least once, interchanging "the reapers" with "we" and "I".
Something that thinks of itself in a similar vein to the reapers probably isn't an organic lifeform such as a human, asari, or turian.
It also states that interaction with the Crucible has given it a "power-up" to perform new functions. Most organics can't interact with a giant mysterious-purpose synthetic device on that level.
HadesGigas
Member
Hadn't read that but that is really cool. I was just trying to prove that it seems a logical step for an organic race to shed it's body in order to overcome the limits of organic beings.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I think that if the Catalyst were an organic being (which still wouldn't make sense), it would be cool. It's just that, ignoring that it would still hold some circular logic and cognitive dissonance, it would bring up more questions when the finale to a trilogy should be answering questions.
The ending still brings up questions, but if the Catalyst were organic, it would bring up a lot more.
The ending still brings up questions, but if the Catalyst were organic, it would bring up a lot more.
jediyoshi
Member
That sounds as silly as space hampster.
This is a recurring theme in various science fiction universes. Organic creatures enhance themselves mechanically and, over time, ascend into full machines/ai.
computers putin'
Member
Well, all I kept hearing for a while was how terrible the ending was, and I decided to barrel through to the ending after being caught up in multi, just to see for myself; I didn't think it could be that bad. Well, I just finished the game, and holy shit,not only was it underwhelming, it was terribly written and totally didn't give me any closure!
I'm totally disappointed in the lack of choice you're offered in the last scene of the game, I mean why was I not given an option to not jump in the fucking thing? I'm angry that a new protagonist( some god/ai/I'mnotsurewhatthefuckheis kid ) is just thrown into last few seconds of the game, only to tell us he's behind the reaper attacks and then spew his horrible logic as to why he's doing it. Most of all, I'm upset I don't get to see how the relationships I established with all of the characters develop after the war ended, because they're all fucking dead apparently.......except for Joker, EDI, and LIARA( Even though she was with me during the last mission, wtf! )
In fact, the more I think about the ending, the more I find to take fault with ( you mean synthesis is the only way to peace? getting rid of diversity being the only way? that seems to totally contradict the whole theme of the game, and makes my in game attempts at brokering peace with the other races seem pointless! ), and the more questions I come up with. But I'm not gonna sit here and bother you guys with my questions. I'm sure the answers to what I'm asking are already out there ( or in this thread already ). Right now though, I just feel like sitting here and wallowing in my disappointment until I fall asleep.
This is all a shame too, this was a FANTASTIC game up until the end.
I'm totally disappointed in the lack of choice you're offered in the last scene of the game, I mean why was I not given an option to not jump in the fucking thing? I'm angry that a new protagonist( some god/ai/I'mnotsurewhatthefuckheis kid ) is just thrown into last few seconds of the game, only to tell us he's behind the reaper attacks and then spew his horrible logic as to why he's doing it. Most of all, I'm upset I don't get to see how the relationships I established with all of the characters develop after the war ended, because they're all fucking dead apparently.......except for Joker, EDI, and LIARA( Even though she was with me during the last mission, wtf! )
In fact, the more I think about the ending, the more I find to take fault with ( you mean synthesis is the only way to peace? getting rid of diversity being the only way? that seems to totally contradict the whole theme of the game, and makes my in game attempts at brokering peace with the other races seem pointless! ), and the more questions I come up with. But I'm not gonna sit here and bother you guys with my questions. I'm sure the answers to what I'm asking are already out there ( or in this thread already ). Right now though, I just feel like sitting here and wallowing in my disappointment until I fall asleep.
This is all a shame too, this was a FANTASTIC game up until the end.
heliosRAzi
Banned
You should've taken more time with it, but oh well.
Welcome. The hugs aren't free anymore.
Go ahead and ask away. Any question can be answered by any of these four concepts: space magic, speculation, artistic integrity, and lolBioware.
It's partly why the ending is so jarring.
Arjen
Member
We all know that feeling man. It gets better in a few days.
Except it doesn't
Does no one in this thread actually understand the ending?
Re-play it. There's a lot of hints that point you in the right direction. he biggest pieces of evidence here are...
- Anderson entering the final area before him (even though there's only one path, and they weren't in the same corridor prior).
- Shepard fucking breathing in space.
- The "paragon" and "neutral" endings actually being NEGATIVE (what the Reapers want).
- The "renegade" ending showing Shepard still being alive.
- The kid appearing. The kid was never seen by anyone else, and appeared only in his dreams (except at the beginning).
- Shepard having a bullet wound when he wasn't shot. Anderson was shot.
tl;dr
Shepard entering the beam was all in his head. None of it occurred. Destroying the Reapers is the true ending. It's a clever setup for DLC that will explain exactly what happened post-dream (when he wakes up at the end of the renegade ending).
Re-play it. There's a lot of hints that point you in the right direction. he biggest pieces of evidence here are...
- Anderson entering the final area before him (even though there's only one path, and they weren't in the same corridor prior).
- Shepard fucking breathing in space.
- The "paragon" and "neutral" endings actually being NEGATIVE (what the Reapers want).
- The "renegade" ending showing Shepard still being alive.
- The kid appearing. The kid was never seen by anyone else, and appeared only in his dreams (except at the beginning).
- Shepard having a bullet wound when he wasn't shot. Anderson was shot.
tl;dr
Shepard entering the beam was all in his head. None of it occurred. Destroying the Reapers is the true ending. It's a clever setup for DLC that will explain exactly what happened post-dream (when he wakes up at the end of the renegade ending).
heliosRAzi
Banned
Why don't you just tell us?
heliosRAzi
Banned
I swear, if he says indoctrination theory...
Holy shit! How did you know.
Stealth edits. :lol
---
I, personally, don't have any reason to doubt the events after the beam.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36308614&postcount=4215
Edited my previous post. There's no assumptions there, just observations. It's pretty clear.
Arjen
Member
heliosRAzi
Banned
Oh god damn it
So you didn't read the thread(s). It's cool.
The cycle begins again
"Indoctrination theory" is a theory that tries to tie up the loose ends. I just find it ridiculous that there are still people who see what's presented and take it at face value. The game makes it very clear that it's not to be taken at face value.
computers putin'
Member
That's actually the stuff making me reluctant to ask,I haven't reached the stage of wanting to speculate on the ending just yet lol. I really want some concrete answers (I'm hoping some of the writers have answered these questions already ) like, how( or why ) the fuck did joker break away from the whole fleet and when did my squadmates link up with him? Or where did the garden planet that joker crashed on come from ( just how far away from the main fleet was the Normandy )? Y'know, shit like that. I dunno, it almost feels like I missed something somewhere and I feel compelled to watch the ending again, just to see if I can find something I missed. But right now I'm sleepy and I can barely put organize my thoughts lol.
hopefully I'm over it a bit in the morning but.....
I just want the hurt to go away man.....
Arjen
Member
I used to be like you, then i read the Last hours of Mass Effect.
It's not in shepard's head, catalyst and al the bulshit is real.
It also makes it clear that the events are happening. The only section that's debatable is the meeting with the Catalyst, but even then the events are simply presented in an hyper-state of being. It doesn't lead to a dream.
heliosRAzi
Banned
lolBioware. Bioware recorded lines for Joker where he says he's coming in to save the day, but for some reason, it was cut.
Speculation. We have no idea.
Yeah, sleep on it and come back and ask more questions. They've been asked so many times now and we have grown exceedingly efficient in answering them.