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[computers putin']

^^^^^
ha ha, thanks, guess I'll hold you guys to that lol.

 

[Hero]

The only ones who are indoctrinated are the fans thinking Bioware was clever and smart enough to actually write it in as a plausible ending. Which they're not.

 

[Nome]

It also makes it clear that the events are happening. The only section that's debatable is the meeting with the Catalyst, but even then the events are simply presented in an hyper-state of being. It doesn't lead to a dream.

This is what I don't understand. At what point does the game point towards the events actually happening? Unless Bioware made a significant number of gaffes in the ending sequence, I don't understand how they're anything but deliberate inconsistencies there for the sole purpose of pointing towards the truth.

 

[HadesGigas]

This is what I don't understand. At what point does the game point towards the events actually happening? Unless Bioware made a significant number of gaffes in the ending sequence, I don't understand how they're anything but deliberate inconsistencies there for the sole purpose of pointing towards the truth.

The inconsistencies all over the game are more a product of rushed chaotic dev cycle than anything else.

 

[hateradio]

This is what I don't understand. At what point does the game point towards the events actually happening? Unless Bioware made a significant number of gaffes in the ending sequence, I don't understand how they're anything but deliberate inconsistencies there for the sole purpose of pointing towards the truth.

Which inconsistencies? The only odd part, as I stated, is the actual meeting with the Catalyst.

When you say the truth, all I can think is 4chan.

 

[Arjen]

This is what I don't understand. At what point does the game point towards the events actually happening? Unless Bioware made a significant number of gaffes in the ending sequence, I don't understand how they're anything but deliberate inconsistencies there for the sole purpose of pointing towards the truth.

They just fucked up in the last sequence, cut to much content. Everything happened for real.
There's a flowchart in the Last Hour ap, showing that catalyst and your choices were real and planned. Never mentions shepard dreamig or whatever.

 

[heliosRAzi]

They just fucked up in the last sequence, cut to much content. Everything happened for real.
There's a flowchart in the Last Hour ap, showing that catalyst and your choices were real and planned. Never mentions shepard dreamig or whatever.

Yeah, the Final Hour notes and the textdump do not mention anything about indoctrination.

 

[hateradio]

Or dream sequence, or hallucination, or something else.

They simply wanted the three options that they gave us at the end.

 

[Nome]

Which inconsistencies? The only odd part, as I stated, is the actual meeting with the Catalyst.

When you say the truth, all I can think is 4chan.

The biggest one for me is Anderson saying he's in a different part of the Citadel, but both he and Shepard running across a chasm implies a radial structure. Yet by the time you reach the end platform, it's clear that there's only one path. And again, in the catalyst scene, Shepard is breathing in space. And if there's doubt being cast on the catalyst scene, then there should be doubt cast on the entire sequence.

Unless somewhere in the Last Hours app, they explicitly state that "this is real", I don't think it's evidence to the contrary. I wouldn't release DLC spoilers in an app either. I don't know about Bioware, but where I work, when we have media over, we scrub things extra clean to prevent leaks.

 

[Metroidvania]

Yeah, the Final Hour notes and the textdump do not mention anything about indoctrination.

It actually does, it states that the Dev team wanted to show Shepard succumbing to the reapers, but they cut it because of the difficulty of 'controlling' Shep if he/she was fully indoctrinated.

The IT believers says this is proof that IT is possible, since it doesn't say that indoctrination was completely scrapped, only showing it in-game was cut for time/gameplay constraints.

I will say that it is interesting so many people see the IT on "their own", without necessarily watching the video or the google doc, etc.. I blame the stupid slow-mo dream sequences.

Unless somewhere in the Last Hours app, they explicitly state that "this is real", I don't think it's evidence to the contrary. I wouldn't release DLC spoilers in an app either. I don't know about Bioware, but where we work, when we have media over, we scrub things extra clean to prevent leaks.

This is also part of the base IT theory, that Bioware wanted the playerbase to experience the process of being indoctrinated into believing the current endings are real when Shep is really unconscious.

 

[heliosRAzi]

It actually does, it states that the Dev team wanted to show Shepard succumbing to the reapers, but they cut it because of the difficulty of 'controlling' Shep if he/she was fully indoctrinated.

I meant just the notes that Walters scribbled, the one with LOTS OF SPECULATION.

 

[tassletine]

Mushed up paste is the ultimate form of evolution? We know what their ultimate motivation is: to keep synthetics from destroying organics. That is what the Catalyst says outright. TOo bad that we have 3 examples of synthetic life not trying to destroy all organic life: EDI, the geth, and the Reapers themselves since while they do destroy a lot of organic life, they don't destroy all of it.

So synthetics destroy organics to protect organics in order to keep organics from creating synthetics that would destroy organics. It's circular logic and people have already figured out other solutions to the Reaper's "problem"



You are speculating (SPECULATION) based on no evidence whatsoever. Besides, like I said above, we are told what the Reaper's motivations are.


So these synthetics turn organics into a fine paste in order to protect organics from synthetics that would probably turn organics into a fine paste.

It quite does disprove the Catalyst. Never mind the fact that the Reapers helped out the geth by upgrading them.



We have no proof of that since we can't present EDI or the geth as refuations of the Catalysts assertion. From our perspective, it sounds like a lot of bullshit


I'm sorry, but I don't accept that. Throughout the games, we are shown that we should give life, whether organic or synthetic, a chance. We can cure the genophage or save the rachni or achieve peace with the geth. Plus, most of the geth are content with hanging out in space just crunching numbers. They only rebelled because the quarians tried to kill them.



The Catalyst is gone.


SPECULATION



There are recorded lines from Joker saying that he was coming in to the rescue, but they didn't add it in, mostly because SPECULATION

How is ending a trilogy with contradictions and confusing ambiguity brave? Or providing endings that are virtually identical? How is having Shepard act out of character brave?

No matter how you try to justify it, the ending is shit.

It's brave because stepping outside of the norm takes guts. They knew it would kick up a shit storm and be attacked yet they did it anyway. It's brave because it deals with broader themes rather than intricate plot points which isn't usual.
What you want is something that fits together like clockwork. Bioware are asking you to use your imagination to fill in the gaps, it's an ancient storytelling device that is used by writers to get the audience to think more deeply about the themes in the story. It's intentional and not a mis-step. They know exactly what they are doing.

What you are criticising is the surface of the story, not what the story is actually about. If you were brave yourself then you would trust your imagination to fill in the gaps. Instead you would rather be spoon fed.
The story all makes sense, you just need to figure it out. It's existential and has nothing to do with the soap opera antics of the characters -- Who lives, who dies, how excited you were at the end, or any of that.

 

[hateradio]

I will say that it is interesting so many people see the IT on "their own", without necessarily watching the video. I blame the stupid slow-mo dream sequences.

That's true, but we also don't know what they intended to actually do with it. I suspect they wanted to do to Shep what they did with Anderson.

Personally, I thought that Shep could have had traces of indoctrination, or something like that, but his dreams could be interpreted in various ways. I really hate dream sequences. When was the last time anyone seriously walked in slow motion in a dream?

 

[Arjen]

The biggest one for me is Anderson saying he's in a different part of the Citadel, but both he and Shepard running across a chasm implies a radial structure. Yet by the time you reach the end platform, it's clear that there's only one path. And again, in the catalyst scene, Shepard is breathing in space. And if there's doubt being cast on the catalyst scene, then there should be doubt cast on the entire sequence.

Unless somewhere in the Last Hours app, they explicitly state that "this is real", I don't think it's evidence to the contrary. I wouldn't release DLC spoilers in an app either. I don't know about Bioware, but where I work, when we have media over, we scrub things extra clean to prevent leaks.

I agree that a lot points to IT being real, and if they planned it lthat way, well done. But everything points to the fact that they had to rush the ending and dropped the ball hard.

 

[Nome]

It actually does, it states that the Dev team wanted to show Shepard succumbing to the reapers, but they cut it because of the difficulty of 'controlling' Shep if he/she was fully indoctrinated.

The IT believers says this is proof that IT is possible, since it doesn't say that indoctrination was completely scrapped, only showing it in-game was cut for time/gameplay constraints.

I will say that it is interesting so many people see the IT on "their own", without necessarily watching the video or the google doc, etc.. I blame the stupid slow-mo dream sequences.



This is also part of the base IT theory, that Bioware wanted the playerbase to experience the process of being indoctrinated into believing the current endings are real when Shep is really unconscious.

I actually didn't know about IT when I realized something was up. I played the game over the weekend, taking notes because we're having a discussion at work about it. I initially attributed the inconsistencies to dev oversight but ended up Googling it afterward. The IT thing works out well though.

 

[hateradio]

The biggest one for me is Anderson saying he's in a different part of the Citadel, but both he and Shepard running across a chasm implies a radial structure. Yet by the time you reach the end platform, it's clear that there's only one path. And again, in the catalyst scene, Shepard is breathing in space. And if there's doubt being cast on the catalyst scene, then there should be doubt cast on the entire sequence.

One path? Anderson specifically said that the walls are changing and realigning. I don't think the inconsistency is that great of a deterrent from taking the scene as reality.

 

[AniHawk]

It's brave because stepping outside of the norm takes guts. They knew it would kick up a shit storm and be attacked yet they did it anyway. It's brave because it deals with broader themes rather than intricate plot points which isn't usual.
What you want is something that fits together like clockwork. Bioware are asking you to use your imagination to fill in the gaps, it's an ancient storytelling device that is used by writers to get the audience to think more deeply about the themes in the story. It's intentional and not a mis-step. They know exactly what they are doing.

What you are criticising is the surface of the story, not what the story is actually about. If you were brave yourself then you would trust your imagination to fill in the gaps. Instead you would rather be spoon fed.
The story all makes sense, you just need to figure it out. It's existential and has nothing to do with the soap opera antics of the characters -- Who lives, who dies, how excited you were at the end, or any of that.

it was either a cop-out for not having a proper ending ready due the game being rushed, or it was laziness on the part of the designers and the writers when the big reason this thing was a trilogy was so your decisions from the first and second games could have an impact on the outcome of each other and the third.

the first mass effect was sorta this 1970s/early 1980s scifi movie, complete with grain filter. you were a spaceman in charge of a spaceship and could take a little rover down to planets to explore and murder giant space worms.

this was immediately lost in the second game when the presentation took a nosedive and it never came out of it. i suppose just following the one reason the whole thing was a trilogy was beyond their grasp at that point, but i still had hope. even when a coworker told me that none of my choices mattered, i didn't believe him, thinking it was just hyperbole on his part.

and to be fair, i would still be dissatisfied with the ending even if all the space kid stuff was actually really, really good, because i didn't play this series for that.

 

[Coxswain]

It's brave because stepping outside of the norm takes guts. They knew it would kick up a shit storm and be attacked yet they did it anyway. It's brave because it deals with broader themes rather than intricate plot points which isn't usual.
What you want is something that fits together like clockwork. Bioware are asking you to use your imagination to fill in the gaps, it's an ancient storytelling device that is used by writers to get the audience to think more deeply about the themes in the story. It's intentional and not a mis-step. They know exactly what they are doing.

What you are criticising is the surface of the story, not what the story is actually about. If you were brave yourself then you would trust your imagination to fill in the gaps. Instead you would rather be spoon fed.
The story all makes sense, you just need to figure it out. It's existential and has nothing to do with the soap opera antics of the characters -- Who lives, who dies, how excited you were at the end, or any of that.

It's not a complex, deep ending that people just haven't figured out. The messages it sends aren't subtle, and they're as simple as you can get. It's contradictory and incoherent even on a thematic level, and that has nothing to do with individual details of specific events or characters.
Defending it involves not using your imagination to "fill in the gaps", but using your imagination to "pretend a bunch of stuff didn't happen, and then a bunch of other stuff did".

It is a bad, and badly written, ending. There's nothing brave or commendable about it.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yeah, it's bad, bad writing. It does not matter if it's trying to convey something.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Lmao.

I saw this half a dozen time and I still can't get the last panel

 

[Rubezh]

I saw this half a dozen time and I still can't get the last panel

Photoshoped stock image (of a meme).

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

It's brave because stepping outside of the norm takes guts. They knew it would kick up a shit storm and be attacked yet they did it anyway. It's brave because it deals with broader themes rather than intricate plot points which isn't usual.
What you want is something that fits together like clockwork. Bioware are asking you to use your imagination to fill in the gaps, it's an ancient storytelling device that is used by writers to get the audience to think more deeply about the themes in the story. It's intentional and not a mis-step. They know exactly what they are doing.

Ripping off Deus Ex = brave got it.

Sadly even then a 12 year old game did it better, having a story that plays with those themes and by showing the ramification of each choice.




*Sarcasm off*
There really is not anything brave about who ME3 ends, there's a reason they never did something like it earlier in the series, because the brave thing is doing something like that and having to carry on. It was just lazy and poorly executed.

 

[Zomba13]

I think the worst part of the ending is that Walters got exactly what he wanted. People are discussing the ending and there is lots of speculation (from those who like the ending and dislike it because it's so fucking vague). I don't think he cares people hate the ending, people have already bought the game and played it so it's a win for Walters and Bioware.

 

[sTeLioSco]

The only ones who are indoctrinated are the fans thinking Bioware was clever and smart enough to actually write it in as a plausible ending. Which they're not.

the point is,many that defend the ending believe in indoctrination.....

they say: its because you are indoctrinated!

so if this is proven false in some dlc,even more ppl will hate the ending lol

 

[Arjen]

I think the worst part of the ending is that Walters got exactly what he wanted. People are discussing the ending and there is lots of speculation (from those who like the ending and dislike it because it's so fucking vague). I don't think he cares people hate the ending, people have already bought the game and played it so it's a win for Walters and Bioware.

I don't buy that, i can't believe someone doesn't feel bad when so many people hate what your wrote.

 

[Jintor]

I'm watching the Giant Bomb QL of some ME2 DLC and it's making me miss this universe so much.

I didn't really feel like this right after I finished, but I think about the way the universe ends, how nothing I do really, at the end of it all, matters, and I just get depressed.

If Bioware are brave, they're brave because of how absurdly stupid the ending it is. It was brave of them to release something as incredibly flawed and unsatisfying as that.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I think the worst part of the ending is that Walters got exactly what he wanted. People are discussing the ending and there is lots of speculation (from those who like the ending and dislike it because it's so fucking vague). I don't think he cares people hate the ending, people have already bought the game and played it so it's a win for Walters and Bioware.

I stopped buying BW games when I heard how bad DA2 was (I rented it instead), every game buyer has their limits and shit like DA2 and large parts of ME3 aren't helping with Biowares good will.

I hope this effects them in the long run.

 

[Arjen]

I'm watching the Giant Bomb QL of some ME2 DLC and it's making me miss this universe so much.

I didn't really feel like this right after I finished, but I think about the way the universe ends, how nothing I do really, at the end of it all, matters, and I just get depressed.

If Bioware are brave, they're brave because of how absurdly stupid the ending it is. It was brave of them to release something as incredibly flawed and unsatisfying as that.

I think it's pretty damn stupid, i think a lot of people who played trough the game don't really care about DLC pre-ending.

 

[HarryHengst]

There is no way im going to buy DLC if the ending doesnt get fixed. And all the talk about 'explaining the ending' doesnt give me much hope that Bioware will deliver something i consider good enough.

I might get any MP DLC though, because that part is pretty fun.

 

[Lime]

There is no way im going to buy DLC if the ending doesnt get fixed. And all the talk about 'explaining the ending' doesnt give me much hope that Bioware will deliver something i consider good enough.

Same. Space Elevator and forward needs to be deleted. Scrap the whole thing, because it is intrinsically shit.

 

[Interfectum]

beat the game over the weekend.

It's funny, while playing the game and hearing the initial backlash about the ending I was thinking to myself "man this game is so much fun I don't see how 10 minutes could potentially ruin an entire game." I had the biggest game boner going into the last 10 minutes of ME3. When Shepard and Anderson were sitting there dying watching the galaxy's last ditch effort to save itself from annihilation I was sold. Bioware is back baby.

Then.... the child showed up. "what"

Then... the rainbow of 'choice' was presented to me. "what"

Then.... the Normandy crashed on a random jungle planet and Liara was there (uh she was with me). I guess her and joker are going to have a bunch of space babies now? "what"

Then.... "tell me another story about the Shepard papa pedo" "fuck you bioware"

 

[HarryHengst]

Mass Defect 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wisHcuBzTCM

:lol

 

[KingItachi]

Mass Defect 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wisHcuBzTCM

:lol

Good post I'm cracking up over here.

 

[Interfectum]

Was it Mass Effect 1 where Sovereign was like "you can't possibly comprehend what we are" or some nonsense? Then space baby jesus explained it in 2 minutes? lol

 

[Juice]

The only ones who are indoctrinated are the fans thinking Bioware was clever and smart enough to actually write it in as a plausible ending. Which they're not.

This. Writing was mediocre throughout the whole series. A fantastic ending would have been jarring. (And probably lost on most fans)

 

[Basileus777]

Was it Mass Effect 1 where Sovereign was like "you can't possibly comprehend what we are" or some nonsense? Then space baby jesus explained it in 2 minutes? lol

I can't say that he was wrong, the Reapers' motivations are incomprehensibl

Spoiler

y stupid

.

But really, very little of ME1's plot makes any sense after ME3's retcons.

 

[Stat Flow]

Mass Defect 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wisHcuBzTCM

:lol

Renegade is red
Paragon is blue
Assuming control
This hurts you

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I can't say that he was wrong, the Reapers' motivations are incomprehensibl

Spoiler

y stupid

.

But really, very little of ME1's plot makes any sense after ME3's retcons.

That's why in my mind ME1 is all there is, that's my fan canon.

 

[Wind's Howling]

Despite the terrible lackluster ending of the trilogy it still is the best trilogy I played in my 20 years of gaming. I just hope, even though I doubt it, that Bioware released a proper DLC ending without having to pay for it. But knowing EA that would be asking for rainy clouds in the middle of a desert.

 

[Chinner]

it would have been interesting if instead of mass effect 2 & 3 being direct sequels, they were set like 200 years after me1 with new main characters, and where your choices were from the previous games were actually noticeable.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Same. Space Elevator and forward needs to be deleted. Scrap the whole thing, because it is intrinsically shit.

I think it starts going off the rails a little earlier than that but with that ending, I really have no desire to go back. I'm not the type to demand a different ending but if they do end up coming up with something that isn't universe destroying, I'd take a look.

Also, the indoctrination theory is possibly even worse than the ending taken at face value. How could you build up a 90+ hour trilogy and end it with the protagonist unconscious, dreaming without an ounce of closure? There is no way to salvage the ending; if they want to fix it, they would have to start from scratch.

 

[Dilly]

Mass Defect 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wisHcuBzTCM

:lol

Beautiful.

 

[Interfectum]

What's so depressing is if ME3 was a piece of shit game I wouldn't even care. But the game showed there is still some good writing to be had at Bioware. I thought the moments with Shepard and Garrus (as friends) specifically were really, really well done.

It's just a shame they did their game and overall series a disservice with such an awful ending.

 

[clockpunk]

The biggest complaint I have with the ending is that the synthesis ending is pretty much locked for those who do not wish to partake in multiplayer.

My partner, for example, earned almost every in-game War Asset, and didn't get the option, which really spoiled the whole experience after so much investment. She said it wwas shitty of EA to pretty much lock 'the best option' down, especially as the online pass is not registered to a console, but an account (in this case, mine).

I agree with her. That was bad form, and should be a default choice.

 

[DarkKyo]

What's so depressing is if ME3 was a piece of shit game I wouldn't even care. But the game showed there is still some good writing to be had at Bioware. I thought the moments with Shepard and Garrus (as friends) specifically were really, really well done.

It's just a shame they did their game and overall series a disservice with such an awful ending.

I loved all the Shepard-Garrus moments. Under that tough exterior of scars and plates he's such a softy.

 

[PinkCrayon]

Was it Mass Effect 1 where Sovereign was like "you can't possibly comprehend what we are" or some nonsense? Then space baby jesus explained it in 2 minutes? lol

Sovereign, Harbinger... hell, even the reaper on Rannoch says it.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

The biggest complaint I have with the ending is that the synthesis ending is pretty much locked for those who do not wish to partake in multiplayer.

I got Green, just needed to have made the right choices in Me 1 and 2, some N7 missions and some Citadel 'quests'.


She may as well just watch the green end on youtube and just paste that over in her memory.

 

[Wind's Howling]

The biggest complaint I have with the ending is that the synthesis ending is pretty much locked for those who do not wish to partake in multiplayer.

My partner, for example, earned almost every in-game War Asset, and didn't get the option, which really spoiled the whole experience after so much investment. She said it wwas shitty of EA to pretty much lock 'the best option' down, especially as the online pass is not registered to a console, but an account (in this case, mine).

I agree with her. That was bad form, and should be a default choice.

But despite that all the endings were only different in some very tiny details. Soldiers cheering or not, Joker and EDI having different colored pupils and a few more. It also completely removes the fun to go renegade.

 

[Replicant]

Liara calling EDI "blabbermouth" is amusing.

 

[dragonelite]

What's so depressing is if ME3 was a piece of shit game I wouldn't even care. But the game showed there is still some good writing to be had at Bioware. I thought the moments with Shepard and Garrus (as friends) specifically were really, really well done.

It's just a shame they did their game and overall series a disservice with such an awful ending.

The dialogues were written with the team giving back feedback.
And the ending was just Walters and hudson.

Unless that rumor was false.