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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Nibel said:
I find it more creepy that you can stab in the back of Wrex like this - fucking creepy
Click to expand...

Yeah shep can be a fucking prick in this. Look earlier in the video and there's a legion execution with 3 separate renegade prompts to keep shooting him as he's kneeling on the ground quivering. And he makes that creepy expression after shooting mordin in the back and sabotaging the genophage.

That video in general is really hard to watch tbh.
 
S

sTeLioSco

Banned
for the sheep that recommend us to shut up and don't question the "authority".
(especially the gaming press,aka as the pr machines of the publishers)


Mass Effect 3 debacle - Pre-release developer quotes



Whether or not you enjoyed the conclusion to Mass Effect 3 (personally I feel
it tarnished an otherwise masterful series) please take a look at the
pre-release quotes below from websites and interviews with the game's
developers, writers and producers.

Does all that talk of meaningful player choice, multiple significantly
different endings and closure for the characters and series not seem,
at the very least, strange?

I believe Bioware can be legitimately accused of, at best, fudging the
truth if not outright deceit given the inconsistency between notions
of choice, closure etc. expressed before the game was released and
the ending as it currently stands.

In my opinion Bioware produced a badly written, ill-conceived shambles
of an ending riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies but
even if you loved the final moments of this great game do you really
think what was stated in the interviews below has been proved true?

Maybe Walters, Gamble, Hudson et al will be proved right when a decent
ending is released via (presumably free) DLC that explains the
original ending was just some sort of hallucination/indoctrination.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that though.


Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2...on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...rought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/c...t-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650/mass_effect_3_reapers_can_win_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's
plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/12...per_interview_shepard_coop_story_details.html


"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play
all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll
still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a
totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/casey-hudson-kinect-the-future-of-interactive-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and
the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all
of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to
live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...-go-on-holiday-our-dlc-is-really-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And
even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”


EDIT: Thanks to Skidrow-Garrett for pointing out another mystifying quote or two. It seems Bioware worked for years on the ending and are really pleased with it. I think it makes new DLC to address all the concerns less likely, unfortunately.

Ray Muzyka (Co-Founder of Bioware)
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...ss-the-old-republic-launch-ending-a-trilogy-a

“I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the
most satisfying of any game I’ve ever played….the decisions you make in
this game are epic,”

“The team has been planning
for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise.
Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for
years and years. They’ve thought about [the ending] for years and years.
It’s not something they’ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but
over the course of five or ten years.”

from: cato_84
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1
 
S

sTeLioSco

Banned
Danj said:
Are there any new Marauder Shields comics? Because those were hilarious.
Click to expand...

this is the latest (9)

marauder_shields_8__the_thin_blue_line__me3__by_koobismo-d4tmz2x.jpg


http://koobismo.deviantart.com/
 
D

danwarb

Member
You do make a lot of big decisions in ME3. The entire Mass Effect universe exploding wouldn't change that.

I'd prefer the reapers to make a little more sense, but it looks like many wanted a parade with all the talk of consequences. A bleak end was inevitable. Delete the Normandy crash scene and synthesis option and that'd be a fair enough ending.
 
J

Jibbed

Member
Apparently this was written by Mass Effect 3 writer Patrick Weekes on the Penny Arcade forums (username Takyris)... [source]

If true, GODDAMN YOU CASEY HUDSON.

Patrick Weekes (Takyris) said:
I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).

No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d

And again, it shows.

If you'd asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I'd break them down as:

Galactic Alliances

Friends

Organics versus Synthetics

In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me -- every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.

The endgame doesn't have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here's the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here's the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.

I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be -- something that I've been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson's goodbye.

For me, Anderson's goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

And then, just to be a dick... what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked "Destroy the Reapers". When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you'd show a cutscene of Earth that was either:

a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory

b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.

c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out

I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren't in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don't know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it'd be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to "which color is stuff glowing?" Or maybe they ARE in, but they're too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that's... yeah.

Okay, that's a lot to have written for something that's gonna go away in an hour.

I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn't tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn't have enough cutscene differentiation on it.

And to be clear, I don't even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes -- all three of them.
Click to expand...
 
J

Jibbed

Member
Sotha Sil said:
Reported as fake by Chris Priestly, IIRC.
Click to expand...

There are screen-caps of posts from him following this (even after is was deleted) that show him trying to play down the situation and asking not to be quoted, they're fairly indicative that he did in fact say all of that.
 
L

Lime

Member
What are the options for Bioware in terms of "fixing" the ending? Will they expand the original one by having dialogue options for the Space Kid? Or will they re-alter the whole post-Anderson significantly?
 
W

WiiredShawn

Member
danwarb said:
You do make a lot of big decisions in ME3. The entire Mass Effect universe exploding wouldn't change that.

I'd prefer the reapers to make a little more sense, but it looks like many wanted a parade with all the talk of consequences. A bleak end was inevitable. Delete the Normandy crash scene and synthesis option and that'd be a fair enough ending.
Click to expand...

Few people, I expect, sincerely believed that the ending would be sunshines and rainbows. There is an opportunity for a positive, victory ending, just like in Dragon Age: Origins (which is also considered fairly bleak while you assemble an army); but the game's ending is far more problematic than just deleting some scenes. Hell, deleting the Normandy scene and Synthesis option, as sensible as that would be, removes even more content from an already sparse ending.

The real problem is that the ending is a big, fat lie - both in terms of the lore, the situation and the developer's promises. Mike Gamble said, as late as last month, that "there are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?" It's like the man never even looked at the ending.

I understand if the team ran out of time to deliver all of the endings they promised; that's the fault of EA for giving the massive end to a trilogy less than two years of development time. But that Bioware's executive staff has watched the finale and retained the notion that this is a perfectly suitable and sufficient conclusion is one of the biggest acts of cognitive dissonance resolution I've ever seen. It's mind-boggling, almost.

At this point, my only expectation for "clarity" is a DLC epilogue with Dragon Age-style text blocks that "explain" what happened. For $10. If Bioware does more than that (and it's not dumb), I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 
D

DTKT

Member
Derrick01 said:
Naturally they would. Maybe it is fake but Bioware has lied so much already that I don't know why they should get the benefit of the doubt. Confirming that would just add more gas on the fire.
Click to expand...

Would a writer really put his job on the line to just post in a forum. :|
 
R

Replicant

Member
That can't be real post from the writer unless he wanted to get fired.

Having said that, I do suspect that's more or less what happened. Considering the fact that the dialogues between the crew members were so good and always referenced past events. Meanwhile, the main plot was all over the place. The only explanation I can think of is that there were 2 sets of writers. And the ones responsible for crew dialogues didn't have any veto power over the ending.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
If the turncoat writer [name rescinded, because reading the comments, he wants to be anonymous] thing is true, there is absolutely no suggestion there, even reading between the lines, that the ending as it stands is anything less than a sincere failure.

Also, if true, the fact that he refers to Mac Walters, who presumably should be a close colleague, just as "the lead" is kind of telling.
 
D

Digoman

Member
That post is suspicious for me exactly because it's way to close to what I think happened. Besides, even you do let slip something like that, I don't think you would say "And the problem is that when he's not checked..." about your boss on a public internet forum.

But for me, there's little doubt that the whole theme of the ending, including the kid in the intro and dream sequences, was something from the bosses, that thought they were being clever. It just doesn't connect with the rest of the game, specially after two games showed us that the Geth weren't "all that bad".
 
P

Patryn

Member
I can see some of the ME3 writers cracking after all this abuse, especially if the ending was created solely by Walters and Hudson against their objections.

See also: The lashing out on Twitter after the Hepler incident.

It also confirms earlier leaks that the ending was solely done by W&H with no input from anyone else, unlike the rest of the game.

I do think you should edit that post to remove the guy's name. Fake or not, it could cost him his job.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Sotha Sil said:
Reported as fake by Chris Priestly, IIRC.
Click to expand...

As someone who used to be a PA forums regular, Patrick was definitely - at least a few years ago - a regular there. I couldn't speak to now, but I remember chatting to him about his work on ME1 just prior to ME2 launch - he was responsible for some of the smaller sidequests, including the pair on the Citadel trying to decide what to do with their unborn child.
 
O

orion434

Member
I have a question. Are the Quarians considered the most technologically advanced race during the current cycle? I mean basically they create A.I which is the reason for the cycle to begin with.
 
P

Patryn

Member
rayner said:
I have a question. Are the Quarians considered the most technologically advanced race during the current cycle? I mean basically they create A.I which is the reason for the cycle to begin with.
Click to expand...

No. It's implied that the other races have the capability to make true AI, they have just chosen not to because of what happened with the Geth.

After all, keep in mind that Cerberus created one when they wanted to, so it's not a unique skill.

Hell, in ME1, a random guy accidentally made one to skim credits off the casino.

I believe the Asari are considered the most advanced race in the galaxy.
 
D

DTKT

Member
rayner said:
I have a question. Are the Quarians considered the most technologically advanced race during the current cycle? I mean basically they create A.I which is the reason for the cycle to begin with.
Click to expand...

Not really. Work on AI was banned after the Geth incident. They are on par with everyone else really.
 
G

gdt

Member
Just finished it. I thought it was great, with some holes, yeah. The Normandy stuff was stupid, and I really would've loved some videos or something for each major character (and race), plus I wish my war assets came into play. The last 10 minutes didn't sour my experience, just didn't live up to 3 whole games worth of hardcore continuity.

It's definitely my favorite game of the three though, and if The Witcher 2 can fix it's ending, so can ME3.

I would hope they add more content, and maybe more end choices. It really should've been like 20 minutes of pure comedown, they left a lot on the table.

Edit: Can someone explain the Shep being indoctrinated thing? I didn't get that from my synthesis ending at all.
 
Zomba13

Zomba13

Member
Patryn said:
No. It's implied that the other races have the capability to make true AI, they have just chosen not to because of what happened with the Geth.

After all, keep in mind that Cerberus created one when they wanted to, so it's not a unique skill.

Hell, in ME1, a random guy accidentally made one to skim credits off the casino.

I believe the Asari are considered the most advanced race in the galaxy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Asari are the most advanced as they had a lot of help from the Protheans (with their beacons and direct intervention during the Asari early years).
 
M

Meier

Member
So I finished it last night and went with the synthesis route since that seemed to be the best option for everyone involved (especially as a paragon) and I didn't really have an issue with it at all. I wish the ending cinematic/epilogue had been longer but other than that, it seemed like an okay ending. Color me somewhat confused by the hubbub.
 
L

Lime

Member
Meier said:
So I finished it last night and went with the synthesis route since that seemed to be the best option for everyone involved (especially as a paragon) and I didn't really have an issue with it at all. I wish the ending cinematic/epilogue had been longer but other than that, it seemed like an okay ending. Color me somewhat confused by the hubbub.
Click to expand...

Choosing to implant synthethics into every organic without their consent is a paragon choice? Sounds like you didn't think your choice through.
 
P

Patryn

Member
gdt said:
Just finished it. I thought it was great, with some holes, yeah. The Normandy stuff was stupid, and I really would've loved some videos or something for each major character (and race), plus I wish my war assets came into play. The last 10 minutes didn't sour my experience, just didn't live up to 3 whole games worth of hardcore continuity.

It's definitely my favorite game of the three though, and if The Witcher 2 can fix it's ending, so can ME3.

I would hope they add more content, and maybe more end choices. It really should've been like 20 minutes of pure comedown, they left a lot on the table.

Edit: Can someone explain the Shep being indoctrinated thing? I didn't get that from my synthesis ending at all.
Click to expand...

The idea comes from the Destroy ending, where, if your EMS is high enough, has a scene of Shepard taking a breath in rubble that appears to still be in London.

The idea being that the Reapers want you to do Control or Synthesis and finish the Indoctrination process, instead of Destroy, which is "breaking" the hold.

There's also things like the fact that only Shepard ever sees the kid, that every time the kid showed up barring him holding the model at the VERY beginning, there are DANGER or WARNING signs, things like How did the Kid get in the vent in the beginning?, etc, etc.

It also has to do with the fact that Shepard's actions in ME3 can prove that the Starchild is totally full of shit. After all, Shep could have united the Geth and Quarians to fight the Reapers, and taught EDI that life is precious and why people sacrifice themselves for others.

There's also a major dream-like quality to the ending. See: The infinite ammo, the potential similarity of the Starchild's chamber to elements on the path to the conduit, etc.

If you're really interested, go to YouTube and look for the videos that explain all the evidence.
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Meier said:
So I finished it last night and went with the synthesis route since that seemed to be the best option for everyone involved (especially as a paragon) and I didn't really have an issue with it at all. I wish the ending cinematic/epilogue had been longer but other than that, it seemed like an okay ending. Color me somewhat confused by the hubbub.
Click to expand...

One of the issue is that the other endings ends the same way no matter what you choose(Mass Relays explode, Normandy stuck on a random planet, grandpa talking about stories). And that's only one issue.
 
S

SerArthurDayne

Member
Meier said:
So I finished it last night and went with the synthesis route since that seemed to be the best option for everyone involved (especially as a paragon) and I didn't really have an issue with it at all. I wish the ending cinematic/epilogue had been longer but other than that, it seemed like an okay ending. Color me somewhat confused by the hubbub.
Click to expand...

Educate yourself, and it gets worse as you think more about it. But ultimately I envy you if you were able to enjoy it, so maybe you don't want to.

I find synthesis the worst, personally, because of space magic and mind rape, but that's just my opinion, you don't have to go spreading it around.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
At least they could have had Shepard sending a message to the Normandy before he picks a colour pleading to Joker to get the crew out and then have them looking on vids as the Citadel explodes. Show the crew all sad and maybe have views from other planets surfaces with Miranda, and others looking up at the sky seeing space magic coming.
 
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