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Mass riots happening in Venezuela, 3 dead, dozens injured
- Thread starter Leopold
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Thanks for your post. Please keep safe and keep us updated.
VOLUME WARNING: Here's a video of the ongoing violence on the streets. Looks like something out of a dystopian film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsTPnwst_Yk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsTPnwst_Yk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
NYCmetsfan
Banned
People will still defend this. Because ideology comes before human rights.
I imagine the deaths are a lot higher than 3 now with that kinda stuff happening?
Thanks a lot!
NYCmetsfan
Banned
You do realize that half of "the people" are in support of Maduro and the revolution, right?
His statement is totally reasonable.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Which statement?
gutter_trash
Banned
the guy is a bus driver for crying out loud
The part about taking to the streets if fascists kill the president.
Maybe something of a flippant statement on my part since I'm thinking more about Ukraine currently where literal fascists are are at the forefront of things whereas they're not in Venezuela, just liberals for the most part. But hey, if something like that happened, he'd be totally right!
FYI, I don't actually like Maduro. I just like the PSUV's opposition even less.
Tallshortman
Member
What mass facist protest are you imagining? He's just using a blanket term that doesn't even apply.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The quote is creating a facists opposition out of nothing its like the US republican party fighting against their 'socialist opposition'' It's not real. He quote is pretty much saying "if these people force me to resign, start a civil war". That's not a quote anyone should support.
You like the opposition worse than a government that doesn't respect freedom of speech, shoots protesters and can't provide security?
Yes, people can leave the country without much trouble in general
They are in support of Chavez and the revolution, not really Maduro. But I agree, if they still hold the support of that many people, those people have the right to defend what they believe is best
I think the thing that frustrates me most of all is the Western Socialists in the Guardian etc.. trying to defend this regime. The 'socialists', much like in China or Cuba or Eastern Europe, have enriched themselves at the expense of the people. Yes, poverty has gone down which is nice, but when the murder rate is one of the highest in the world, and food and toilet paper are hard to find in government shops, that does not make the government a success. This is a regime that does not care about the people, and certainly does not care about freedom.
Venezuela should be the Norway of South America. There is enough money there to make so many people have great lives. But because of a corrupt and ineffective regime, the population remains mostly poor, even 15 years after Chavez promised to 'free' them.
Venezuela should be the Norway of South America. There is enough money there to make so many people have great lives. But because of a corrupt and ineffective regime, the population remains mostly poor, even 15 years after Chavez promised to 'free' them.
I'm absolutely sure Maduro doesn't really know what fascism means and its history. He just kept repeating like a parrot what Chavez used to say.
Pero que hijos de la gran puta, les mando todo mi apoyo a nuestros hermanos de Venezuela desde México, seguro que salen vencedores de esta.
Im sorry but i needed to write this in spanish.
empty vessel
Member
Maduro is the elected president of Venezuela and the opposition is trying to force him out instead of elect him out. That's what you are endorsing, which as I understand your principles is a betrayal of them. Would you support tea party actions to oust Obama? Mind you, I'm not necessarily opposed in principle to mass action ousting an elected government, but I do suspect that you are. In this particular instance, of course, I am opposed ideologically to the Venezuelan opposition and so do not wish for their success.
What's wrong with having worked as a bus driver?
God. Why all the leftist always try to argue in favour of a bloodthirsty left wing regimen adducing they were democraticaly elected in first place?
Damn it. I wrote a long message explaining how Maduro and TSJ (Tribunal Justice) made a constitutional coup but I commited a mistake and lost the post. So i'm really jaded to write all again. Instead, i will leave links in spanish explaining more or less this situation. Up to you to read it or not.
(1), (2), (3)
By the way. This is not a opposition vs Government scenario. This is a civil resistance against a murderous illegal de facto regime. Regardless of the ideology.
empty vessel
Member
Nonsense.
Read this interesting article about this manifestations:
http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-–-student-protests
And I welcome anyone else well informed in the subject to criticize its contents. Since it paints a really grey picture of this situation. (And a no happy ending for Venezuela)
Nicktendo86
Member
Nice, well thought out counterargument.
Outstanding.
Are you really that desperate to hold on to the ideal of a utopia that you'll turn a blind eye to all the corruption going on in there. The fact that Caracas has no rule of law and is the most dangerous city in the world should be a tiny hint.
It's no different from Ukraine. Except instead of blinkered morons blaming it all on a secret fascist conspiracy it's a capitalist one.
https://twitter.com/lavilan70/status/437635588381241345/photo/1
The Braves sent out a message of support. Particularly Avilan and Gattis (Who played winter ball there, and got his nickname there)
A lot of them also remember Martin Prado, who was really popular.
The Braves sent out a message of support. Particularly Avilan and Gattis (Who played winter ball there, and got his nickname there)
A lot of them also remember Martin Prado, who was really popular.
empty vessel
Member
What does the crime rate have to do with anything and who said anything about a utopia? That you would mention "rule of law" having anything to do with the Venezuelan opposition suggests a high degree of ignorance about what has happened and is happening there.
The Ukraine is fighting between neoliberal masters. No matter who wins, Ukrainians lose.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Mets did to. Less of a Political stand though. None of the VenezeulaSOS or prayforVenezuela stuff
‏@Mets Feb 23
The #Mets show their support for Venezuela. "Venezuela, we are far but never absent." #Venezuela #venezolanos pic.twitter.com/pyXyTf0SsD
Most of you talk like if we a change of government, Venezuela would transform in a great country without crime or poverty. Sadly that would be far from the reality, if they manage to take Maduro out.
And I don't think Maduro will accept to step down in a pacific way. He's fucking crazy and stupid
Cuba is one of the Latin American countries with less problems and one of the best in terms of HDI. Obviously far from being a paradise, but is doing much better than most capitalist Latin American countries. And you have the US block on them, most countries in Latin America wouldn't survive a month with that kind of BS
And I don't think Maduro will accept to step down in a pacific way. He's fucking crazy and stupid
Cuba is one of the Latin American countries with less problems and one of the best in terms of HDI. Obviously far from being a paradise, but is doing much better than most capitalist Latin American countries. And you have the US block on them, most countries in Latin America wouldn't survive a month with that kind of BS
tauroxd
Member
I'm from Venezuela, and it's not exactly the same thing, At that time people wanted things right now (or then) and went in a hurry and did many stupid things, like try to go as a rally to the presidential house (like the White House) and expose themselves to snipers, shooters on the street and such. This time people maybe expose to such threats as well, this time from the National Guard and the state police, but people are trying to do things a little more efficient, stating their ground on the streets, claiming they want changes in the country like more secutiry (in a normal weekend we have about 20 dead people by violence and deliquency just in the capitalm Caracas, this weekend there were 26 people) more food (it's getting difficult to find it in supermarkets) and many other things. This has been going for more than the 2002 coup, and I don't know for how long and what it will accomplish, I'm just hoping that those dead people won't be for nothing and that we will actually get a better country out of this crysis.
empty vessel
Member
Not to mention the democratically elected president who is legally entitled to his public position...
NYCmetsfan
Banned
He was born there. What makes him not Venezuelan?
tauroxd
Member
There has been talk for some time that he was born in Colombia. The opposition leaders have requested many times that he proof that he's venezuelan by showing to the country his birth certificate but Maduro won't pay attention to those claims ind requests and just ignore that discussion.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
There are Venezuelan birthers? Seems like a cheap way to oust him.
Edit: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/27/world/americas/venezuela-birther-movement/
It is not the first time the people throw an incompetent president out. It has happened in Argentina and in other Latin American countries. I would agree they should wait for elections, but the elections just happened... there's no way he can stay in power like this for so much time.
Will be interesting to see how this ends.
The Omega Man
Member
If the Harvard graduate committed a crime he should be in Jail and if the Bus driver was elected in a public and fair election by the majority of the population, then the Bus driver must be the president.
With that said, Leopoldo López is in jail under nebulous charges that not even the government can explain and he must be released asap unless the Government wants his own version of Mandela, also Maduro is unequivocally, the worst president in the history of Venezuela as the country reaches an all-time low.
But please refrain the use of "Hardvard graduate" as a merit and "Bus driver" as impediment, the new Venezuelans must be inclusive, and those distinctions don't help at all.
empty vessel
Member
Venezuela also has a formal recall process. It's even been through one recently.
Retired general denounces cuban infiltration among military ranks in Venezuela, is promptly accused by Maduro of training people into building barricades, which the guy responds by barricading himself in his house and basically going all "COME AT ME BRAH", police arrives at Maduro's orders, realize that no judge have signed the detention order and leave.
Of all the stupid shit that Maduro does thats the only one you cant argue properly. The bus driver shit is also pretty fucking offensive.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I don't believe Venezuela's elections are fair though I believe their is no vote rigging as I trust the election monitors. Not with their suppression of the media and internet.
Which ironically you bash Obama for.
Reminds me of the Community Organizer pejorative in here the US. I'm not a fan of Maduro but that shouldn't be anything held against him.
Just like Yanukovych? Where was your cheerleading then?
enanogrande
Member
Jesus Christ, thank you for finally saying this. It's disgusting how people will jump to defend both Chavez and Maduro just because they're left wingers.
The Omega Man
Member
I've seen all those videos, and while I moved from Venezuela almost 9 years ago, my whole family lives there, so don't give me the "I live in this shithole", I talk daily with my mom and my lil bro, I know how bad things are, I also know Maduro is a heavily flawed man, what I am trying to say and I think someone else also already said it, out of his flaws you choose to name Bus driver as an insult, think of it for a second, is it really fair for all Bus drivers in Venezuela? honest people that try to provide for their families, you can choose any other of his terrible qualities to pick on, but drop the Bus driver insult.
empty vessel
Member
Their media owners were instrumental in orchestrating a coup. That more business owners in Venezuela are not in prison is a testament to its government's restraint.
I do not think Yanukovych should be deposed absent evidence his election was not democratic. At the same time, I don't really care which neoliberal power prevails in the Ukraine. Unlike Venezuelans, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
What does this have to do with fawning state media coverage violating election rules? Way to dodge the question.
So you had no feeling whatsoever on the police shooting protesters or how it affects Yanukovych's mandate and legitimacy? How very unlike you, why it's almost as if you're maintaining cognitive dissonance so that you don't have to accept the reality of the shithole Venzuela has become!
You have an education? How elitist!
enanogrande
Member
Relajate hermano, if you read the rest of his posts in this thread you'll see he is in no way defending the government - much to the contrary, in fact.
Which media owners, you mean the current government?
Machado, I think most people here understand your frustration, but you are being unreasonable right now, I also fail to relate to some of the attitudes displayed by certain users here but I understand that they come from a different place with different views and different biases (or straight ignorance) so I think the right think to do is point out what you perceive as wrong and correct the points. You are currently being as bad as the people that accuse you of being an oligarch, which I have seen it has been said to you in the past, not to mention that is frowned upon by the administrator by rightful reasons.
Tranquilizate, informa a la gente de lo que estas injusticias que estan pasando en tu pais, pero no es necesario ser agresivo. And lol again, you fuckers sure love that harina pan shit.
empty vessel
Member
Why don't you provide some additional information about what you are talking about so I can meaningfully consider it?
What does the Ukraine have to do with Venezuela? Venezuela has always been a "shithole" (your words). It's a developing country. Prior to the USP gaining power, half of Venezuela's population lived in abject poverty. That condition has been substantially improved thanks to the UPS's sustained efforts directed towards Venezuela's poor. You may not care about poor people who don't speak English and don't have an internet presence (many of whom until recently were totally illiterate), but I do.
Also, look at how the USP has destroyed Venezuela: http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs...ocial-performance-under-hugo-chavez-in-graphs
The Omega Man
Member
I don't live in USA and I definitely don't rake-up $$$ I work hard and so does my wife to keep our family afloat, I come from no privileged family, middle-class at best.
My mon lives in the Avenida intercomunal del valle brah, she is just a teacher, and she has to make all those lines for food and go to the same hardships you go to everyday.
Dude, calm down, and stop with the assumptions, you are WRONG in all of them, was I ever defending Maduro? I totally agree that the regime is a mess, and I KNOW it's way worse that when I left.
But that's the thing, Bus driver is totally irrelevant to his stupidity, he could have been a doctor and still be as stupid as he is.
I live in Canada, married, had kids here, became Canadian, work hard, pay my taxes, etc, all by myself, I started from 0, I didn't have the 80k $ you have to move to New York.
Watch out there, are you are trying to dismiss my opinion just cause I don't live there anymore? because that's exactly what all Chavistas say about Venezuelan ex-pats, how ironic isn't it?
Right now, please, go find the post where I defend that regime, go, I'll wait, look trough my post history, find that post please, you totally lost it dude.
I really don't know what you are arguing here, I sympathize with you that the government is a disaster, I took issue with your "Bus driver" comment thou, it's insulting.
Took you long enough to use your usual ad-hominem.
Again man, I know, its just how some people love to characterize anyone that has something bad to say about the regime, like empty vessel above.
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