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[frankie_baby]

I agree, but then London house prices would quickly decrease and all our poor politicians may end up in negative equity.

Negative equity would be the best solution for the future of the country, yeah some people would lose money but property pricee need to be put back in reach of ordinary people, perhaps specialist mortgages need to be legislated fir for those in negative equity but those that bought property at stupid prices need to realise they are part of the pfoblem so should take a financial punishment

 

[2MF]

I'm sure some complained but this is far from the truth. The cladding acts primarily as insulation for the building, whilst also modernising it's aesthetics. If it were just metal sheet cladding it obviously wouldn't have been flammable.

The BBC also says that some of the money was spent on a communal heating system:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40280169

Grenfell Tower underwent an £8.6m refurbishment as part of a wider transformation of the estate, that was completed in May last year.

Work included new exterior cladding and a communal heating system.

So this idea that the council is just spending money on improving rich people's views seems like a fantasy.

That said, the all around situation of this building sounds like a clusterfuck, which may have been addressed quicker/better if the people there had more power or money. That's a much less dramatic statement but still damning.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Sadly those empty properties are all owned by rich Russians! And yeah it's sickening.

Apparently the cladding was put on the building because local wealthy residents were upset the high rises were ugly.

again with this nonsense. The insinuation is complete balls. The building was ugly and I'm sure people said so repeatedly but there is nothing wrong with moaning about ugly, great carbunkles. It's not like the "wealthy residents" formed a pressure group and demanded the building owner cover the building in death trap fire cladding. The responsibility lies with the people who authorised and fitted the cladding and maybe with whoever drew up the building regs.

 

[Divvy]

People are not at fault for wanting to live in the area, if the housing assoc wants to put dangerous cladding on their building to make it look nicer that is not the responsibility of nearby residents.

I don't think anyone is insinuating that the residents are in any way at fault for this. More like the priorities of those involved in the buildings management were way out of whack.

 

[Wil348]

A friend of mine and his partner had just moved into this place recently. Thankfully neither of them were home at the time, but they still lost their belongings. Still, I'm relieved they made it out okay.

The pictures I'm seeing in here though are horrific.

 

[doby]

again with this nonsense. The insinuation is complete balls. The building was ugly and I'm sure people said so repeatedly but there is nothing wrong with moaning about ugly, great carbunkles. It's not like the "wealthy residents" formed a pressure group and demanded the building owner cover the building in death trap fire cladding. The responsibility lies with the people who authorised and fitted the cladding and maybe with whoever drew up the building regs.

I find it inconceivable that the cladding hadn't been tested and regulated for its intended purpose. Therefore I believe the shortfall lies with improper installation. The fire was able to penetrate the metal sheeting and ignite the material inside which should have never been able to happen.

 

[Mesousa]

I find it absurd the nightly news in America didnt have this as the top story.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I find it absurd the nightly news in America didn't have this as the top story.

It was the top story on a lot of Australian news sites/channels, but we have a pretty strong relationship with England.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

A friend of mine and his partner had just moved into this place recently. Thankfully neither of them were home at the time, but they still lost their belongings. Still, I'm relieved they made it out okay.

The pictures I'm seeing in here though are horrific.

Shit, man. Did they have insurance at least, or does it look like they may need help getting back up on their feet?

 

[Charles Brandon]

I don't think anyone is insinuating that the residents are in any way at fault for this. More like the priorities of those involved in the buildings management were way out of whack.

You might not be but there is dome definite shade being thrown at these people in this thread.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I find it absurd the nightly news in America didnt have this as the top story.

Really? We had an attempted mass assassination today

 

[harriet the spy]

Empty houses should become forfeit to the local council, would sort homelessness in minutes

Absolutely or they should be taxed out of the wazoo. Incredibly stupid situation.

 

[Dishwalla]

I find it absurd the nightly news in America didnt have this as the top story.

We had two mass shootings today in the US, one concerning politicians right outside our nations capitol. Sorry an international story took a backseat.

 

[Pyroclastic]

fair play to mick

 

[s_mirage]

I find it inconceivable that the cladding hadn't been tested and regulated for its intended purpose. Therefore I believe the shortfall lies with improper installation. The fire was able to penetrate the metal sheeting and ignite the material inside which should have never been able to happen.

Aren't there deliberate gaps in it to aid ventilation and reduce damp? It would help if the material inside wasn't flammable in the first place. According to The Guardian, only the surface of the cladding is required to be fire retardant, not the insulation.

 

[Mimosa97]

I find it absurd the nightly news in America didnt have this as the top story.

French news had it at the top story

 

[doby]

It's weird all the papers have gone with the ignored warning narrative when it was the cladding that was the real cause of the disaster. No one knew the cladding was flammable, or at least it wasn't widely known and probably not known to the action group doing the lobbying.

Aren't there deliberate gaps in it to aid ventilation and reduce damp? It would help if the material inside wasn't flammable in the first place. According to The Guardian, only the surface of the cladding is required to be fire retardant, not the insulation.

I have no idea, I haven't read any reports on it, I'm just hypothesizing (which probably isn't helpful)

 

[JonnyDBrit]

fair play to mick

A true hero.

 

[Auraela]

fair play to mick

Hopefully his Twitter handle doesnt come true

 

[Nikodemos]

Aren't there deliberate gaps in it to aid ventilation and reduce damp? It would help if the material inside wasn't flammable in the first place. According to The Guardian, only the surface of the cladding is required to be fire retardant, not the insulation.

You mean the EPS inside aluminised composite paneling isn't supposed to be flame retarding? I know for a fact the stuff they use for insulation upgrades here has to be (after the cladding on an apartment block lit off the building about 9 years back). Though here they use bare EPS bricks rather than aluminium sandwich panels.

 

[ss1]

I had no idea that there was a campaign that was launched against Boris Johnson's Fire service cuts 4 years ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7V3eTwvO3X0

 

[s_mirage]

You mean the EPS inside aluminised composite paneling isn't supposed to be flame retarding? I know for a fact the stuff they use for insulation upgrades here has to be (after the cladding on an apartment block lit off the building about 9 years back). Though here they use bare EPS bricks rather than aluminium sandwich panels.

I can't pretend to speak with any authority. This is the quote:

Arnold Tarling, a chartered surveyor at Hindwoods and a fire safety expert, says the elephant in the room is the flammability of insulation panels that are being used to clad postwar buildings to bring them up to date with today's thermal standards. A recent £8.7m refurbishment of Grenfell Tower saw the building clad with ”ACM cassette rainscreen" panels, an aluminium composite material covering insulation panels, which could have caused the fire to spread more quickly up the facade of the tower.
Southwark council pleads guilty over worst ever tower block fire

”The issue is that, under building regulations, only the surface of the cladding has to be fire-proofed to class 0, which is about surface spread," says Tarling. ”The stuff behind it doesn't, and it's this which has burned." He says he recently inspected a new-build eight storey block in south-east London where there was no fire protection in the external cavity walls. ”The insulation behind the external cladding is flammable polyurethane. I know because I took a chunk out and burned it."

 

[Cirion]

Empty houses should become forfeit to the local council, would sort homelessness in minutes

Are you some kind of traitorous commie? Free market will surely sort this out, any day now.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Are you some kind of traitorous commie? Free market will surely sort this out, any day now.

I know you're being facetious but it's the free market that leads to this sort of thing. When housing becomes just another investment alongside gold, shares, futures and and investment that produces almost guaranteed strong returns, the additional hassle administrative and legal hassle involved in letting it is just not worth the extra income for many of these people, not when they can make 20% in a year by doing nothing but holding the asset.

 

[cyberheater]

How many high risers are clad in the same material in the UK?

Everyone one I know around here has been re-clad at some point.

The folks living in them must be shitting themselves.

 

[Goodlife]

How many high risers are clad in the same material in the UK?

Everyone one I know around here has been re-clad at some point.

The folks living in them must be shitting themselves.

Hate to say it and wish I wasn't thinking it, and also don't think, for one second, this was, but also makes them very easy targets for terrorist attacks at the moment.

 

[cyberheater]

Hate to say it and wish I wasn't thinking it, and also don't think, for one second, this was, but also makes them very easy targets for terrorist attacks at the moment.

You are not wrong

I also heard a report that the guy who's fridge started this had time to pack a bag and then tell his neighbours that his flat was on fire before they phoned the fire brigade. What a shit bag. He should go to jail.

 

[_Rob_]

fair play to mick

Gold! Mick seems like a good bloke (the ironic twitter handle is a nice touch too).

 

[Charles Brandon]

How many high risers are clad in the same material in the UK?

Everyone one I know around here has been re-clad at some point.

The folks living in them must be shitting themselves.

I think this is the single most important question beyond establishing that the cladding was responsible in the first place (looks pretty clear that it was) and if the issues that caused the fire are likely to be common to other buildings.

 

[milanbaros]

I know you're being facetious but it's the free market that leads to this sort of thing. When housing becomes just another investment alongside gold, shares, futures and and investment that produces almost guaranteed strong returns, the additional hassle administrative and legal hassle involved in letting it is just not worth the extra income for many of these people, not when they can make 20% in a year by doing nothing but holding the asset.

Homelessness is a far more complex issue than there not being enough homes.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

All I'll say is that a lot of Tories voted against new laws on high rise buildings like this to make them safer.

The housing minister was also warned and failed to act.

They also cut the emergency services.

Blood on their hands.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Homelessness is a far more complex issue than there not being enough homes.

I wasn't talking about homelessness. I was talking about the commodification of housing.

edit: Although the guys two posts back was talking about homelessness, so fair enough.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

All I'll say is that a lot of Tories voted against new laws on high rise buildings like this to make them safer.

The housing minister was also warned and failed to act.

They also cut the emergency services.

Blood on their hands.

Surely it was the fault of foreigners, benefit scroungers and public sector service workers in general?

 

[Hazzuh]

Adam Boulton hearing reports that emergency services are expecting the number of deaths to be more than 100. Obviously that should be taken with a considerable pinch of salt but still, I thought some may want to know.

 

[Jezbollah]

All I'll say is that a lot of Tories voted against new laws on high rise buildings like this to make them safer.

The housing minister was also warned and failed to act.

They also cut the emergency services.

Blood on their hands.

Pretty hard to argue against that.

 

[milanbaros]

I wasn't talking about homelessness. I was talking about the commodification of housing.

Sorry, quoted the wrong person. Was responding to the empty houses post.

 

[ss1]

Adam Boulton hearing reports that emergency services are expecting the number of deaths to be more than 100. Obviously that should be taken with a considerable pinch of salt but still, I thought some may want to know.

☹️☹️☹️

May they all rest in peace.

 

[Chinner]

Apparently May has gone down for a quick chat with firefighters, quick photo and then fucked off before meeting residents.

Nice.

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

Apparently May has gone down for a quick chat with firefighters, quick photo and then fucked off before meeting residents.

Nice.

Sounds about right.

 

[Dougald]

Apparently May has gone down for a quick chat with firefighters, quick photo and then fucked off before meeting residents.

Nice.

This is becoming standard behaviour for this woman now.

 

[Charles Brandon]

DON'T MEET THE RESIDENTS THERESA, IF THEY CALL YOU OUT IT WILL MAKE IT SEEM LIKE IT'S YOUR FAULT.

Who is giving this advice?

Surely, as Prime Minister it looks better to take the issue and the victims head-on. That's what a good PM would do. Hiding from the victims because your personal political capital is more important to you that than their concerns just looks awful.

 

[Hazzuh]

Police: the number of people who have died is now 17 - and this is likely to increase #Grenfell

Apparently May has gone down for a quick chat with firefighters, quick photo and then fucked off before meeting residents.

Nice.

Do you have a source? Not saying I don't believe you just wondering.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Police: the number of people who have died is now 17 - and this is likely to increase #Grenfell




Do you have a source? Not saying I don't believe you just wondering.

She was there for twenty minutes, arrived just before 10am and left before 10:20 was on the news channels and you can see pictures of her on bbc live news feed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

 

[doby]

Do you have a source? Not saying I don't believe you just wondering.

Prime Minister Theresa May, who made a brief private visit to the scene, has promised a full investigation, as questions are asked about the speed at which the fire spread.

The keyword there being 'private'.

 

[TCRS]

man reading some of those reports... so fucked up. Like what the fuck do you do when you're living on the top floor? All hope lost, waiting to die, to burn..

RIP

 

[Chinner]

Police: the number of people who have died is now 17 - and this is likely to increase #Grenfell




Do you have a source? Not saying I don't believe you just wondering.

Check guardian live blog. It has comments and also relevant tweets.

 

[ferrasvansen]

man reading some of those reports... so fucked up. Like what the fuck do you do when you're living on the top floor? All hope lost, waiting to die, to burn..

RIP

Yeah reading so many sad horrifying reports. Neighbours watching people terrified waiting to die, so many folk are traumatised with what they have seen.

 

[Machina]

fair play to mick

Straight ether

 

[Breakage]

May's got to pretend she really cares.

 

[BrassDragon]

Gold! Mick seems like a good bloke (the ironic twitter handle is a nice touch too).

And when he's not tweeting, he's saving people. Someone buy him a beer.