PJV3
Member
I think she needs a human interaction advisor, even if she plans to meet the residents later it will look like it has been forced on her.
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Massive Fire in High Rise Apartment in London
- Thread starter superdeluxe
- Start date
I think she needs a human interaction advisor, even if she plans to meet the residents later it will look like it has been forced on her.
I love how she took off 20 minutes later because she knew meeting with the survivors could turn into a PR catastrophe real fast
Given that estimated claimed there could have been hundreds of people in the building at the time this seems conservative as well. Absolutely horrific.
It might seem crass to politicise this so soon but if we all act all nicey nicey we play right into people like the Conservative's hands, let them off easy and hope it soon becomes a distant memory. Fuck that. Every single person, every MP who voted against common sense safety regulations, every person in the chain who ignored warnings and recommendations from judges and the fire brigade etc, all need held to account for what is going to be mass manslaughter.
Kf it helps show the nation how little Tories and their ilk care about the rest of the population that earns less than them and doesn't come from the same "stock" then it can only be a positive step towards making this a much better country for everyone who lives here, not just the filthy rich tax dodging corrupt arseholes we call our leaders.
BBC interviewer tries to get a word in edgeways while this lady schools her on the truth of things
https://twitter.com/Z4M1R7/status/875236889309184000
So many factors contributed to this tragedy and most of them were deliberate government policy.
https://twitter.com/Z4M1R7/status/875236889309184000
So many factors contributed to this tragedy and most of them were deliberate government policy.
ResidentDante
Member
I wonder if there will come a point where the police should warn the public that the number not only will increase from 17, but quite significantly?
Psychotext
Member
chromatic9
Member
How much would it cost to rebuild a similar block of flats on land already owned. Generally it costs around 100k to build a flat or small home in materials and labour. Maybe 12-20 million. Not talking about luxury flats, just affordable housing type. Does not seem worth spending 10 million to refurb a 1970s high rise with no sprinkler system.
Add on the cost of re-housing the sitting tenants during construction.
100+ dead in a terrorist attack - government would fucking go nuts and turn it into a weapon to strip away rights under the pretext of security.
100+ dead in a case of dodgy, cost cutting shoddy tenant holdings - "lessons will be learnt", "whoops" and hope it goes away
I swear to god I want heads roll for this and jail time be due, but the system is broken. It won't happen.
100+ dead in a case of dodgy, cost cutting shoddy tenant holdings - "lessons will be learnt", "whoops" and hope it goes away
I swear to god I want heads roll for this and jail time be due, but the system is broken. It won't happen.
Daffy Duck
Member
Pretty much the sum of it yeah, abhorrent.
Bean counters with no long term outlook, strategy that would save money in the long run while benefiting citizens, friends looking for quick scam buck. This is the UK government to a T.
If this had been the result of an ISIS supporter who had put a bomb in their apartment using Google to build it, May would currently be pushing to pretty much regulate the entirety of the internet for the U.K right now.
If the cause is indeed a faulty fridge with the building going up like wildfire due to poor maintenance, cladding and a catalogue of local and national planning / tenancy oversight she's going to just...sigh.
What's the point. So many lives that could have been any one of us. Desperately sad.
Every day I think I can't get angrier at our current government and yet I'm being consistently proven wrong.
Charles Brandon
Member
She is copping a whole world of shit over this and it is richly deserved. She has found a way to make herself the focal point of a lot of anger for no reason and it has all happened because she is a cowardly cunt*
*used in the british sense
The Atticus
Member
Everyone is shaking in anger and yet nothing meaningful will change.
This is malicious.
This is malicious.
salty_Josh
Member
Was watching a BBC news interview earlier and they're basically giving it the whole "wait for all the facts to come in." You know there's a problem with the officials when they say that. It's the same line they use when a minority is killed by police. Shameful. Absolutely shameful.
Some really close family friends of mine lived in those flats. They're homeless now and their uncle who lived higher up then them is still missing. It's really worrying. My mum works in a sheltered care scheme for the elderly and she's offereing the guest rooms to anyone who needs a place to stay.
Some really close family friends of mine lived in those flats. They're homeless now and their uncle who lived higher up then them is still missing. It's really worrying. My mum works in a sheltered care scheme for the elderly and she's offereing the guest rooms to anyone who needs a place to stay.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
jellies_two
Member
As far as I can see from a brief look at the cladding material brand name this Alcoa product came in two versions. One has a polymer core and the other had a non-flammable core.
https://www.arconic.com/aap/north_america/en/product.asp?cat_id=915&prod_id=1534
No prizes for guessing which was likely to have been used. Or, the FR version was not nearly fire retardant enough.
https://www.arconic.com/aap/north_america/en/product.asp?cat_id=915&prod_id=1534
No prizes for guessing which was likely to have been used. Or, the FR version was not nearly fire retardant enough.
Just back at my desk from volunteering up the road...
The outpouring of support in this community is incredible - there are mountains and mountains of clothes; kids, women's, men's, accessories, shoes, toiletries etc
One overwhelming feeling coming out, though, is that the response to this will be down to the community. There's no finger pointing, but from the speakers, the volunteers, the people themselves - they do not want "officials" telling them what to do, or how to manage their own response - they feel let down, and rightly so.
If any of you guys are in west London please do come down this evening - there's a load of collection points for donations down here and extra hands can go a long way to helping out.
The outpouring of support in this community is incredible - there are mountains and mountains of clothes; kids, women's, men's, accessories, shoes, toiletries etc
One overwhelming feeling coming out, though, is that the response to this will be down to the community. There's no finger pointing, but from the speakers, the volunteers, the people themselves - they do not want "officials" telling them what to do, or how to manage their own response - they feel let down, and rightly so.
If any of you guys are in west London please do come down this evening - there's a load of collection points for donations down here and extra hands can go a long way to helping out.
Pankratous
Member
Wish I was close enough to help. Good on you doing your bit to help out.
Charles Brandon
Member
Hey, Are they taking donations again? I'm not far down the road and "we" (various PTAs etc that my wife is member of) were told to stop dropping stuff off because there is no capacity to store it.
I'll be back up that way tomorrow evening. What sort of stuff is needed most?
They are turning the big trucks away - with a heavy heart.
The message was that there are people all over the area, and London (even beyond) who are sending their love and donations to the area and we should do our best to accommodate that.
Toiletries are probably the big thing - so the Westway Sports Centre (if you know where it is) is housing people in their sports hall, so could be worth asking them what they need.
Also men's/women's/kid's underwear.
But stuff like jeans, t-shirts etc I think they'll be turning away.
Charles Brandon
Member
OK so you're looking for people rather than stuff? I'll see if I can get some hours in tomorrow evening. I know the Westway Sports Centre.
Yeah I think so - so if you go up (?) from the Westway Centre where Boom Burger is - there's a big volunteer area just there!
Charles Brandon
Member
Ok ta.
Well, at least someone is going to meet them who can bash May's head over it in person.
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
Saw this on the news and the tragedy of it is punishing... and I just can't understand how it could happen in Britain. In Canada, the chances of this happening are essentially nil; our building codes require all high rises are built with compartmentalization in mind, and are constructed entirely from non-flammable materials. Also, the requirements for sprinkler systems in the hallways, stairwells and even units themselves are very stringent, with a requirement for retrofitting any older buildings to the new standards. We've been a little lax with the older 4 -6 story buildings re: the sprinkler refits, but a fire that killed three in Quebec a couple years ago in an old-age home had us toughen up the code... still, a four story building is not a 24 story building - four story buildings are likely to be largely wood-framed - and it baffles me how a building that MUST be constructed predominantly of concrete and steel can go up in flames like that? I've lived in a number of high and low rise apartment buildings in my life and never felt like I had anything to worry about even from an arsonist, never mind an electrical short... Did they build all the walls in this building out of naphtha-soaked cardboard? WTH?
the building itself is concrete and compartmentalized ike all the 1970s towers, the problem was the cladding (which meets current regs) being polythene sandwiched between aluminum and this allowed the fire to spread around the outside and in the windows (its hot, most of them will have been open)
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
So, you're saying the wrapped a 24 story apartment building in a FLAMMABLE facing? Geezuz... It's enough to make one weep...
Cladding let the fire spread to top floor in mere 15 minutes as well
So, you're saying the wrapped a 24 story apartment building in a FLAMMABLE facing? Geezuz... It's enough to make one weep...
seems that way, will take a long time to find out for sure, and maybe never since its a public inquiry not an independent one so they can hide the shit they dont want us to know
The flammability of the materials used will come to light, it would be too hard to bury that information given it was the leading cause of the tragedy.
How can compartmentation work as designed when the conditions they're designed to work under become completely compromised.and undermined.
One of the TV channels suggested that May had been advised not to meet the public as it might cause "tension". That would obviously upset everyone, and I think the emergency services wouldn't appreciate the distraction.
The irony is that May herself probably isn't the person who should be getting blame for this. It was "good ol' Dave" that pushed the austerity program and the 'bonfire of the regulations'. It's certainly not hard to imagine that a junior minister might think that proposing new cladding regulations would be "adverse to their career prospects"...
May will obviously be criticised, but personally I would rather fingers be pointed elsewhere for this disaster.
s_mirage
Member
This looks like one of those situations where the cause seems completely obvious, but because a major tragedy hadn't occurred before it lulled people responsible into the belief that one would never happen. See the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster for another example of this; there were prior incidents, and the warning signs were all there, but as none of them had ended in disaster the people in charge were utterly blasé about the danger.
So, you're saying the wrapped a 24 story apartment building in a FLAMMABLE facing? Geezuz... It's enough to make one weep...
It seems that way, yes. There's some tower blocks near me that have just be refurbished but the local council today have been out very publicly explaining the materials used and how they're different. Nobody knows yet but it definitely looks like It could be that they just cheaped out on this building and it's ended in tragedy.
One Eyed Willy
Member
RIP to victims, sad to read about the rumored numbers.
Charles Brandon
Member
May personally is clearly not culpable. May in her role as leader of HM Gov't is absolutely responsible however and it is in that capacity that she needs to address the victims. That's what leadership is about. And yes, she almost certainly would have copped some abuse but that's all in the game.
That being said, if the emergency services had specifically requested that she should not meet the victims on grounds of resources, then fair enough. If it was just her advisers saying that, then no dice.
Camp Freddie
Member
There will be hell to pay if some arsehole went for the polyethylene version to save a few quid.
Given the speed of that fire, it's either not flame-retardant or someone needs to seriously re-write the rules on what gets classed as flame-retardant.
Or the contractor was paid to put the FR stuff on but put cheaper stuff on instead and pocketed the difference.
Happens all too often in construction projects, unfortunately.
Charles Brandon
Member
If that happened someone is going to gaol for a very long time
Charles Brandon
Member
Guardian Live blog: tempers are starting to fray
Let's hope this doesn't spill over. It's hot in London right now and due to get hotter over the weekend.
Let's hope this doesn't spill over. It's hot in London right now and due to get hotter over the weekend.
I don't want it to happen, because it's usually the most vulnerable who suffer the consequences, but these Tory policies were always going to lead to civil unrest and potentially riots. But I don't think anyone was expecting a tragedy on this scale to be the last straw
ShironRedshift
Member
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