The_Inquisitor
Member
Saw the death toll doubled to 12 about an hour ago. RIP. 
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Massive Fire in High Rise Apartment in London
- Thread starter superdeluxe
- Start date
There were pets in the building. :'( They've managed to get a cat out though...but they can't find his owners. So sad.
Thoughts go out to all those effected by today.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/cat-saved-grenfell-tower-fire-now-looked-church/
Thoughts go out to all those effected by today.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/cat-saved-grenfell-tower-fire-now-looked-church/
Pankratous
Member
Saw the death toll doubled to 12 about an hour ago. RIP.
I'll be surprised if the death toll doesn't reach 100+.
That many people in a building, asleep at night?
Yeah.
Damn it's horrible to think about.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
Utterly horrifying and tragic, just one reason why I don't support super high density housing like this.
Wrong lesson. We have actually mostly figured out how to build super high density housing that doesn't become a fire trap. In this case people just chose not to do it right.
They spent about £12 million on a facelift apparently.
If that money was available, why didn't they spend it on the interior, sorting out the fire systems?
Exactly. For all that is wrong about living in HK and the density of the city, they don't have residential towers regularly bursting up in flames just because they are high rise. High rise residential is a pretty well used building type around the world nowadays.
Local building regulations would be up to the local council right? I admit my knowledge of UK building regulations is lacking.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
when people refer to the "local council"
is that like the city/neighborhood government?
is that like the city/neighborhood government?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
High density housing isn't the problem. It's absence of regulation and enforcement of higher safety standards that should be under fire.
Totally serious here -- call the news before this happens again. Because if what you're saying is true, it could happen again.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Has anyone reported on whats happened to building control budgets at the council in recent years?
Raigan5088
Banned
Yes, its the local authority, in London there are numerous boroughs, each are managed by local authorities or 'local council'.
It's more of an issue that serious complains about the building by the people living there being a deathtrap being ignored for years, yet an aesthetic complaint by rich people who don't even live there gets addressed in timely fashion.
Raigan5088
Banned
Report it to your local authority, MP and councillers.
You can email each.
Keep the emails for records.
All of these need to be looked at.
I work for a London Borough in the Housing Department and unfortunately more and more re-developments are left to private companies and housing associations who will spend the least.
Already starting to be talked about thankfully, hope something is done
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Fuck... When the number 6 came out this morning I thought that was low, didn't really consider they can only add to the toll when they have the body...
Bluntly, because in K&C those things would not have helped property values of the surrounding properties.
LoveCake
Member
A truly tragic incident.
I cannot believe the signs that were put up telling people to stay inside and also when people were calling 999 or 112 that they were told again to stay inside.
When I was at school we had various people coming in and there were some fire officers one day and basically they said to "just get out of a building if its on fire" basically 'if in doubt get out'.
That cladding also really needs to be looked into as it seems to have been involved in a number of hi-rise buildings around the world.
I cannot believe the signs that were put up telling people to stay inside and also when people were calling 999 or 112 that they were told again to stay inside.
When I was at school we had various people coming in and there were some fire officers one day and basically they said to "just get out of a building if its on fire" basically 'if in doubt get out'.
That cladding also really needs to be looked into as it seems to have been involved in a number of hi-rise buildings around the world.
Pankratous
Member
Jesus I just came to the realisation that it's gonna be someone's job to recover charred bodies.
I wonder how they're even going to do it... Surely they can't enter the building with structural fears?
I wonder how they're even going to do it... Surely they can't enter the building with structural fears?
Exactly
JonnyDBrit
Member
The process will likely go along these lines:
1) They make reasonably sure that the fire is like 99.9% out, though they can't confirm 100% until they sweep the building
2) They wait and see how the structure holds. Let it cool down, and any warping of the metal to already be done. If it stays standing and doesn't seem like it'll tip at a slight disturbance, then they move in
3) Small teams will move up, one floor at a time, back and forth. As in they will check the first floor, then head back. Second floor, then head back. They will want to minimise time spent in the building, even as they undertake retrieval efforts
4) If the building holds reasonably well and there's no further apparent risk, then they get bolder for expediency's sake. Even then, they'll likely try to establish alternate methods of entry so as to minimise how much they have to navigate a likely damaged stairwell.
The variables of the scenario and actual procedure will mean it won't exactly follow those lines, but it's what I expect. They're going to want to get in there both for the sake of the dead, but also to be absolutely certain of what the hell happened.
Charles Brandon
Member
This has absolutely zero to do with rich people complaining and everything to do with profits for developers. It has nothing to do with other residents. Nothing whatsoever. This is bullshit.
Sarcastic Poster
Member
As far as I'm aware it seems the structure is stable.
ExtremePopcorn
Member
Not yet.
However in London it's the Fire Brigade that is responsible for signing off on all works and providing enforcement notices. They have suffered from the cuts just as much as local Governments.
Err, aesthetics are a key part of any modern building design. Nothing to do with pictures "stark" or otherwise.
cpp_is_king
Member
Spoiler tagged because depressing:
Just read some reports that someone threw an eight year old and 4 year old out of a 15th story window :-/
holygeesus
Banned
It's going to be a huge number. Already quotes that nobody from the top 3 floors made it out.
I don't really understand what this adds to the discussion. We know people have lost their lives.
Tragic all round.
Will be interesting to see what fallout follows with regard to cause, why it spread so far and so fast, the contractors who did the refurbishment, the building control who oversaw the works, the council etc etc...
The compartmentation totally failed, something went catastrophically wrong there, that will be a major focus point. Presumably being circa 1970s building, it's concrete frame which are robust in terms of fire, so either the method of compartmentation has failed, or is non existent, or in the wrong places or the new eternal cladding might appear at first glance to be a culprit in how the fire spread.
We were discussing this at work, the problems started years ago when they tweaked the building regs pertaining to fire safety, they made them a lot less prescriptive and in many ways more open to intepretation, grey areas etc. Good for helping to drive development, bad in terms of everyone knows what they're doing. There is far too much reliance on management plans taking the place of actual fire structure and sytems; in the real world these are often not adhered to, and the consequences can be, well, horrific.
Garden Centres are ones to watch these days, the larger ones are basically shopping centres, but ones that are unsprinklered, subject to constant changes in layout, unrestricted development (adding cafes etc) and packed to the rafters with flammable stuff.
Will be interesting to see what fallout follows with regard to cause, why it spread so far and so fast, the contractors who did the refurbishment, the building control who oversaw the works, the council etc etc...
The compartmentation totally failed, something went catastrophically wrong there, that will be a major focus point. Presumably being circa 1970s building, it's concrete frame which are robust in terms of fire, so either the method of compartmentation has failed, or is non existent, or in the wrong places or the new eternal cladding might appear at first glance to be a culprit in how the fire spread.
We were discussing this at work, the problems started years ago when they tweaked the building regs pertaining to fire safety, they made them a lot less prescriptive and in many ways more open to intepretation, grey areas etc. Good for helping to drive development, bad in terms of everyone knows what they're doing. There is far too much reliance on management plans taking the place of actual fire structure and sytems; in the real world these are often not adhered to, and the consequences can be, well, horrific.
Garden Centres are ones to watch these days, the larger ones are basically shopping centres, but ones that are unsprinklered, subject to constant changes in layout, unrestricted development (adding cafes etc) and packed to the rafters with flammable stuff.
Building control and planning departments are overworked and underpaid. IME (I work in the construction industry) there is zero proactive work to ensure buildings stay up to code after completion.
Moral Panic
Member
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ said:
I've read these comments several times today and every time it shocks me to the core. I live really close to Lakanal House and to know that after all these years no lessons have been learnt whatsoever is beyond disheartening. And to think that people have been warning explicitly that this exact event would happen and it fell upon deaf ears is infuriating. Heads absolutely must roll and criminal charges must be brought against those in charge of the building. The cannot be allowed to pass the buck.
LQX
Member
Ugh, after 9/11 I don't think I could ever take the advise to stay and wait for help. No, I'm getting the hell out of there, especially if in a high-rise.
Also, last night that idiot on periscope watched that man waving for help for 1/2 hour or more and did not alert the firefighters. Does anyone know if he got any help and made it out safe? He seemed just a few floors up.
Also, last night that idiot on periscope watched that man waving for help for 1/2 hour or more and did not alert the firefighters. Does anyone know if he got any help and made it out safe? He seemed just a few floors up.
cpp_is_king
Member
LQX
Member
Ah, okay. I watched it on mute but all the comments seemingly was begging and urging him to get help as if was the only one that could see him. I hope he made it out.
So upsetting listening to some of the interviews on 5 Live today. One guy said his friend's dad was in the building, called his son to say he loved him.. because the floor in his flat was too hot to stand on and he was stuck. It's so sad, awful, and tragic that anything of this scale can happen I'm 2017 with all the fire regulations and available knowledge, experience and fire detection and suppression technology. I feel for everyone involved, the fatalities, their families and loved ones, the injured, and everyone who has lost their homes.. lost everything last night.
cyberheater
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It's been reported that no one on the top 3 floors survived
That cladding material needs to be banned, here in Dubai we have had multiple fires because of it.
Just look at these 3 buildings that went up in flames within minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPCL3sNVBcM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmrVe3CwYVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLyMQlNDCNU
Thankfully the buildings have good internal fire suppression systems and in all 3 fires everyone was evacuated safely, but this cladding shit needs to be stopped.
Just look at these 3 buildings that went up in flames within minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPCL3sNVBcM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmrVe3CwYVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLyMQlNDCNU
Thankfully the buildings have good internal fire suppression systems and in all 3 fires everyone was evacuated safely, but this cladding shit needs to be stopped.
Neverforget
Member
Devastating news, I just cannot imagine the horror the victims went through. Spending hours in a situation where you know you are not going to escape is terrifying.
May them rest in peace.
May them rest in peace.
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