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[GHG]

Fucking hell, of course sprinkler systems weren't going to be the top of residents agendas. As human beings it is sadly in our nature to always put convenience and niceties before our own safety. But that's why regulations are in place. You don't ask residents whether they would like a sprinkler system, you just fit the fucking sprinkler system.

Can you imagine if at your work offices they asked for a vote on whether you should have smoke alarms or not?

Exactly. If you surveyed the staff of any company and said "You can have new fire alarms or a new canteen and a gym" then the latter two will win almost every single time.

These guys are idiots, the cheek to try and shift the blame to the residents. Why don't we talk about how the fucking cladding wasn't high on the residents list of priorities?

 

[daviyoung]

It was the will of the people

 

[autumnleaf]

Fucking hell, of course sprinkler systems weren't going to be the top of residents agendas. As human beings it is sadly in our nature to always put convenience and niceties before our own safety. But that's why regulations are in place. You don't ask residents whether they would like a sprinkler system, you just fit the fucking sprinkler system.

Can you imagine if at your work offices they asked for a vote on whether you should have smoke alarms or not?

"So would you like seat-belts or air conditioning in your car?"

"It doesn't come with seat-belts?!"

 

[liquidtmd]

For years, this country has had Health and Safety (rightly) at the forefront of so many things far less impactful than fire awareness that we've had people screaming 'its 'elf and safety gone mad'

But in relation 'residents couldnt on sprinklers so we didn't fit them'....sorry. Doesn't fly.

Fuck. You.

 

[Martinski43]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40298473

So i guess the death toll will be in the hundreds? :/

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Fucking hell, of course sprinkler systems weren't going to be the top of residents agendas. As human beings it is sadly in our nature to always put convenience and niceties before our own safety. But that's why regulations are in place. You don't ask residents whether they would like a sprinkler system, you just fit the fucking sprinkler system.

Can you imagine if at your work offices they asked for a vote on whether you should have smoke alarms or not?

It's a Tory led council, they'll try to do whatever they can to shift the blame.

 

[waveuponwave]

I said holy fucking shit

"We totally wanted to put sprinklers in to save them, but they just wouldn't let us"

Damn. If proper refurbishments would cause so many disruptions, maybe you should temporarily house the residents somewhere else and really bring the building up to scratch instead of doing some half-assed job that doesn't help anybody

 

[Addnan]

Fucking Tory cunts, still trying to pass on the blame to poor people. Cunts.

 

[Martinski43]

There were about 70 people that got out? So most of the rest that lived there that are still missing is probably a goner then..

 

[Spaghetti]

I haven't been keeping up on all the developments on this, but have any representatives of the council said why the fire alarms weren't going off? Passing the buck on the sprinklers is one thing, but it still doesn't explain the alarms.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

There were about 70 people that got out? So most of the rest that lived there that are still missing is probably a goner then..

I feel if you don't hear from someone three days after a tragedy like this, chances are they died or were seriously injured.

I can't imagine any other scenario where someone wouldn't be able to reach out to family or friends after so many days.

 

[Morat]

Even for a Tory, blaming the victims is low.

 

[GHG]

I haven't been keeping up on all the developments on this, but have any representatives of the council said why the fire alarms weren't going off? Passing the buck on the sprinklers is one thing, but it still doesn't explain the alarms.

Of course they haven't.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I haven't been keeping up on all the developments on this, but have any representatives of the council said why the fire alarms weren't going off? Passing the buck on the sprinklers is one thing, but it still doesn't explain the alarms.

They'll probably come out and say the residents didn't want fire alarms interrupting their sleep.

Even for a Tory, blaming the victims is low.

It's from their playbook. They've been doing it successfully for the last seven years, why would they stop now?

 

[Foxxsoxx]

...and I went a day without thinking about this...

Fuck. Also fuck the owners for being dicks. Literally blaming the people who died for their incompetence.

 

[Uzzy]

Sajid Javid is being torn apart on Radio 4 right now, getting questioned about why action wasn't taken when previous investigations into high rise fires recommended changes and sprinkler systems being installed.

 

[King_Moc]

Even for a Tory, blaming the victims is low.

This is what they do.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19574492

 

[Morat]

This is what they do.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19574492

Very true. God knows why I even find it shocking. I presume the Sun or Mail will soon run a story claiming the victims were all to blame as well.

 

[slider]

The best way to combat the spread of fire was to contain it? Did I read that right?

And 200k. Wow. That's nothing. I've always thought that when your local authority does something to accommodation it's not like a popularity contest. They do the work that NEEDS TO BE DONE.

 

[pswii60]

The best way to combat the spread of fire was to contain it? Did I read that right?

Indeed it seems a bit bleeding obvious doesn't it.

The best way to stop something spreading is to contain it. No shit.

But contained is exactly what this fire wasn't.

 

[Blue Lou]

It's beginning to amaze me how media blame their bogeymen for anything.

Express headline: Did EU regulation mean deadly cladding was used on Grenfell Tower?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...ing-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

Daily Mail front page: Were green targets to blame for fire tragedy?

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20170616/281479276403194

 

[Plasma]

It's beginning to amaze me how media blame their bogeymen for anything.

Seems par for the course from those two rags.

 

[Maledict]

The best way to combat the spread of fire was to contain it? Did I read that right?

And 200k. Wow. That's nothing. I've always thought that when your local authority does something to accommodation it's not like a popularity contest. They do the work that NEEDS TO BE DONE.

Yep. My council has even been to the high court several times against residents groups in order to get work done that they oppose but that needs doing. The fact K&C didn't install them shows exactly how much they care about their poor residents.

 

[jellies_two]

It's beginning to amaze me how media blame their bogeymen for anything.

Express headline: Did EU regulation mean deadly cladding was used on Grenfell Tower?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...ing-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

Daily Mail front page: Were green targets to blame for fire tragedy?

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20170616/281479276403194

It's hard to see how any EU regulation forced them to spend 2 quid less per panel and get the flammable ones. The cost of the panels in total was a fraction of the total renovation cost.

 

[Chinner]

It's beginning to amaze me how media blame their bogeymen for anything.

Express headline: Did EU regulation mean deadly cladding was used on Grenfell Tower?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...ing-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

Daily Mail front page: Were green targets to blame for fire tragedy?

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20170616/281479276403194

The right wing are scared, so they're trying to create an artifical panic to distract people as this could be hugely damaging and cost the Tories more seats.

 

[ferrasvansen]

The right wing are scared, so they're trying to create an artifical panic to distract people as this could be hugely damaging and cost the Tories more seats.

They obviously did not learn from the Corbyn attacks in the days prior to election. People are sick of the lies, even the comments sections are getting very anti Tory and anti papers compared to just a few weeks ago. They are just digging bigger holes, when it's clear the blame lies in the cladding which has nowt to do with eu or green regulations, it was added so the flats looked better. The council and government will end up taking the blame and rightfully so, sitting on building regulation reports etc does not exactly help their case.

 

[Lego Boss]

Fucking Tory cunts, still trying to pass on the blame to poor people. Cunts.

ALways someone else to blame.

I can't fathom how they have been getting away with it for so long, it's incredulous.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Fucking hell, of course sprinkler systems weren't going to be the top of residents agendas. As human beings it is sadly in our nature to always put convenience and niceties before our own safety. But that's why regulations are in place. You don't ask residents whether they would like a sprinkler system, you just fit the fucking sprinkler system.

Can you imagine if at your work offices they asked for a vote on whether you should have smoke alarms or not?

Pretty sure everyone would say yes.

 

[velociraptor]

100+ dead in a terrorist attack - government would fucking go nuts and turn it into a weapon to strip away rights under the pretext of security.

100+ dead in a case of dodgy, cost cutting shoddy tenant holdings - "lessons will be learnt", "whoops" and hope it goes away

I swear to god I want heads roll for this and jail time be due, but the system is broken. It won't happen.

This needs repeating over and over again.

Fuck these cunts.

 

[Uhyve]

The right wing are scared, so they're trying to create an artifical panic to distract people as this could be hugely damaging and cost the Tories more seats.

Yep, but I don't think that they're just looking at seats, they're looking at riots.

There's so many buildings with this cladding, if the Tory's don't deal with this properly, we'll get 2011 style riots again.

 

[darkinstinct]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40298473

So i guess the death toll will be in the hundreds? :/

The article you just linked says it could be 60.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

The article you just linked says it could be 60.

Maybe 60 identifiable. There were 600 in that building. After midnight. Less than sixty got out.

 

[Spaghetti]

It's beginning to amaze me how media blame their bogeymen for anything.

Express headline: Did EU regulation mean deadly cladding was used on Grenfell Tower?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...ing-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

Daily Mail front page: Were green targets to blame for fire tragedy?

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20170616/281479276403194

Pretty disgusting.

The irony is the people who believe this shit will be the first to cry about the politicising of the tragedy when suggestions are made of negligence from the Conservative-run council.

 

[velociraptor]

Maybe 60 identifiable. There were 600 in that building. After midnight. Less than sixty got out.

I imagine the death toll will be in the hundreds. But of course none of this will be officially publicised because it will make the government look bad.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Maybe 60 identifiable. There were 600 in that building. After midnight. Less than sixty got out.

The sixty rescued were folk taken out by firemen and doesn't include those who walked out alone in the lower floors. I reckon it will be north of 100 poor souls and in all honesty even one death would have been too many, there had better be arrests and punishments for those to blame.

 

[Maledict]

I imagine the death toll will be in the hundreds. But of course none of this will be officially publicised because it will make the government look bad.

There is zero chance of the fatality figure being covered up. Sorry but that's paranoia a step too far. For one thing, the government has zero control over a lot of functions that will determine it (both fire and police and controlled by the Mayor not government, and the coroners courts guard their independence extremely highly).

I don't doubt there will be multiple attempts to shift the blame, but hiding the death count won't happen. I mean, are the victims families just going to stay quiet?

 

[Theonik]

100+ dead in a terrorist attack - government would fucking go nuts and turn it into a weapon to strip away rights under the pretext of security.

100+ dead in a case of dodgy, cost cutting shoddy tenant holdings - "lessons will be learnt", "whoops" and hope it goes away

I swear to god I want heads roll for this and jail time be due, but the system is broken. It won't happen.

I mean it is pretty obvious why that is. Dealing with this particular problem would mean looking at their bad policies and also probably hurt them and/or their cronies. The second reason is the whole police state thing is not really done for security it is done for population control which only has small impact on security.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Maybe 60 identifiable. There were 600 in that building. After midnight. Less than sixty got out.

Can we be careful with baseless speculation like this please.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

The council shifting the blame is not unexpected. Appearing to respect the democratic will of the people, to justify doing dumb shit, is part of the Conservative MO at the moment (and indeed, a common tactic of many a politician's playbook all over the world).

The problem with their plan, that they haven't quite realised, is that they're not explaining why they haven't kept the roads up to snuff, or even haven't built new housing, as might be the standard types of situations for such an explanation. They're justifying why they didn't protect the lives of their constituents when it was well within their abilities. Moreover, they're doing so while the entire country, and several parts of the world, are watching. If they don't get their shit together, Kensington's reputation will damn well sink.

 

[GillianSeed79]

PRI (Public Radio International) The World has a story posted today reporting that the aluminum cladding, which was put on the outside of the building, created a chimney effect that caused the building to go up in flames in minutes. The kicker is the cladding was put on because of gentrification, i.e. people thought the old look of the concrete building was an eyesore so they put nice shiny aluminum cladding on the outside so it would blend in with the more upscale, rich looking buildings in the area. Sure sprinklers would have helped but trying to make the place look nice for all the poor yuppies in the area probably contributed most to the inferno. Sprinklers ain't going to do shit in a fire like that by the way but it's nice they found a way to blame poor people. Geez.

 

[jellies_two]

I don't think looks were the main driver.
But cost cutting certainly was. The cladding and double glazed windows decreases heating costs. They clearly should have spent more: on a building fire alarm system, on sprinklers, fireproof cladding, positive pressure escape stairwell, and reevaluated the stay put instructions.

 

[Goodlife]

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but WTF isn't this a national emergency, coordinated by COBRA?

If there is any truth that the cladding turned the tower block into a chimney and there are many other tower blocks with the same cladding that's been installed, then there are a huge amount of people currently at risk.

Over 150 people are dead, thousands at risk and we've been promised a interdependent inquiry.

Why isn't there an URGENT exercise to identify those tower blocks at risk.
When aren't the army on the streets evacuating and re-housing those from the tower blocks identified?

Am I being over the top her? I don't get it?

 

[autumnleaf]

I can't understand how it's even legal to use something so combustible on a building, obviously it won't be for much longer.

 

[Charles Brandon]

According to Javid there are teams carrying out work right now on those other towers but they need to wait for the findings from Grenfell.

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

Were the residents of these flats allowed to have pets?

 

[Morat]

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but WTF isn't this a national emergency, coordinated by COBRA?

If there is any truth that the cladding turned the tower block into a chimney and there are many other tower blocks with the same cladding that's been installed, then there are a huge amount of people currently at risk.

Over 150 people are dead, thousands at risk and we've been promised a interdependent inquiry.

Why isn't there an URGENT exercise to identify those tower blocks at risk.
When aren't the army on the streets evacuating and re-housing those from the tower blocks identified?

Am I being over the top her? I don't get it?

Because this only affects the plebs, and can't be spun to promote repressive security legislation.

Also, to be serious, we don't know the death toll yet and while it is likely to be high lets not spread rumours.

 

[MrS]

Fucking Tory cunts, still trying to pass on the blame to poor people. Cunts.

Helpful.

While you play your political blame games, hundreds are dead. Show a bit of respect.

 

[Aeriscloud]

Were the residents of these flats allowed to have pets?

Yes they were.

 

[CadetMahoney]

They will just read out a poem with a commemorative plaque 3 years later after an inquest. "Lessons will be learned". No prosecutions no compensation. Not even the 2009 victims got anything, and that was a very similar event.

 

[Ethelwulf]

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but WTF isn't this a national emergency, coordinated by COBRA?

If there is any truth that the cladding turned the tower block into a chimney and there are many other tower blocks with the same cladding that's been installed, then there are a huge amount of people currently at risk.

Over 150 people are dead, thousands at risk and we've been promised a interdependent inquiry.

Why isn't there an URGENT exercise to identify those tower blocks at risk.
When aren't the army on the streets evacuating and re-housing those from the tower blocks identified?

Am I being over the top her? I don't get it?

Sad thing is that those urgent exercises you mention are only carried out when horrific situations like this happen. And this is a general rule.