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Massive Fire in High Rise Apartment in London

N

NorthAndSouth

Member
Just tried to read through the list of the missing people and couldn't do it. Broke down at one story where a young teenager feared the worst for her younger brother who had gone to visit a friend in the floors above.


I really do hope that the missing are found safe. It's abhorrent how many corners were cut and how disgustingly preventable this entire disaster was. And it's sickening how this could have been allowed to happen.

The victims need justice.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
Monty Mole said:
This is bullshit. According to a BBC article I read earlier, a sprinkler system would have cost a fraction of what the cladding and refurb works cost.
Click to expand...

And they talk about the money that would have been used for the sprinklers actually plausibly going into the NHS instead...

Thatsnothowanyofthisworks.gif

Hey, I got an idea? If we left the EU we could pump £350million...actually, shit no that's a silly idea
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
The whole cladding situation really upsets me because we saw a similar example of fire spreading spectacularly quickly due to usage of flammable building materials 50 years ago when the Summerlands fire in the Isle of Man killed 51 people (including my grandmother I never got to meet). In that case it was a combination of oroglas and galbestos cladding. We learn nothing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerland_disaster

That was the deadliest fire incident in recent UK history, until this week.
 
H

hydragonwarrior

Member
jelly said:
2009 - Lakanal House tower block catches fire killing 6 people. The local authority is prosecuted for lapses in fire safety. A review is promised by the Labour government after pressure from the Fire Protection Association (FPA).

2010 - Building Regulations Act is published, including provisions for fire safety. Conservatives win election, a review is promised by the new government after more pressure from the FPA and warnings that the BR act does not go far enough.

2013 - Boris Johnson overrules the ruling body of the London Fire Brigade and uses legal action to inflict £29m in cuts. Closing 10 fire stations, cutting firefighters by 552, losing 14 fire engines and cutting minimum staffing levels from 5 to 4. By the time he steps down as Mayor of London he inflicts a further £100m in cuts to £130m total and the loss of 7000 firefighters. Fire prevention measures carried out by the service drop by over 25%.

2013 - All Party Parliamentary Group on Fire Safety and Rescue produces a report strongly recommending installation of fire suppression systems and sprinklers in 4000 tower blocks throughout Britain. The Grenfell residents action group publishes a report warning that their landlord is putting their safety at risk by restricting the access ways to their car park. They are ignored by their landlord.

2013 - 2016 Conservative housing ministers sit on All Party report without action, promising they are "looking at it", including housing minister Gavin Barwell.

2016 - Conservatives vote against a Labour motion to make sure all landlords and housing associations ensure residences are fit for human occupation, including provisions for fire safety. The motion is denied by 312 votes to 219. 72 of the MP's voting against are landlords. The Grenfell residents action group publish a report warning people will die in a fire before the landlord takes notice of their poor fire safety provisions. They are ignored by their landlord.

2017 - Ex housing minister Gavin Barwell becomes Prime Minister Theresa May's chief of staff. He never actioned the report. Grenfell Tower is reduced to rubble with the deaths of at least 12 residents as a fire spreads through the building in 4 minutes. It has no fire suppression system or sprinklers. The stairwell is not adequate for a full building evacuation. The emergency lighting is missing from half of the floors. The fire service struggle to reach the building due to previous car park modifications causing access issues as warned by the resident action group in 2013.
Click to expand...

Each conservative (especially Boris and Gavin) needs to be held accountable publicly. They voted for money and against the safety of human beings.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Sprinkler system 3-400k and duff cladding 3.5 million.

Should be law to have all flats retrofitted and fire escapes updated but even if not, when you spend 3-4 million on cosmetics whether it's good or bad panels, something is wrong. I wouldn't like to be the person who came up with the refurb plan and ignored all the residents.

Personally all this is good money after bad and this block should've been pulled down in the 2000s. When you start running pipes over front doors the penny should drop. Building is not fit for purpose any more.
 
B

Bananajama

Banned
Monty Mole said:
The whole cladding situation really upsets me because we saw a similar example of fire spreading spectacularly quickly due to usage of flammable building materials 50 years ago when the Summerlands fire in the Isle of Man killed 51 people (including my grandmother I never got to meet). In that case it was a combination of oroglas and galbestos cladding. We learn nothing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerland_disaster

That was the deadliest fire incident in recent UK history, until this week.
Click to expand...

Hello Fellow Manxy!
 
B

Breakage

Member
Recently heard about Boris Johnson's "get stuffed" response to a question put to him in 2013 about fire service cuts. And yet today he's described as being the favourite to replace Theresa May.
 
M

moggio

Banned
DCeKM-tW0AE0UAF.jpg
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
dallow_bg said:
Another example of her 'work':
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Are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck is this shit I'm reading? Why is she allowed to write anything? I don't know why they started giving opinion piece privileges to in-patients at the brain damage ward.

Lowmelody said:
It takes a lot to shock me but damn. That article has me pretty fucking heated.
Click to expand...

Yeah. "Well, these people could have been homeless instead." Then raise more taxes you fucking monster.
 
R

riotous

Banned
The monarchy is so strange to me (as an American); all the royal family seems to do is photo ops. Why would anyone call that a "leader"?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
riotous said:
The monarchy is so strange to me (as an American); all the royal family seems to do is photo ops. Why would anyone call that a "leader"?
Click to expand...

I look at Donald Trump and wonder why anyone would call that a "leader", tbh.
 
F

Fergie

Banned
Reading the survivors stories about relatives making their final call is beyond heart-wrenching...

My god what a disaster this is.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
What's mind-boggling is the fact that fire crews are very limited to what they can do in a high rise. You can only spray water up so high and that is counter productive sometimes as it can push smoke and heat further inside.

Crews have to tackle it from the inside and you need an existing pipe running centrally for the hose to connect to on each floor.

A sprinkler system can not only get going immediately, a building this deep with rooms is not feasible for any amount of fire crews to tackle, with sprinklers you have immediate cover to every part of the building, everything gets drenched to stop fire spreading, less smoke, more time to evacuate, less damage for more evacuation. It cannot be understated how effective a sprinkler system is in such a building. The rooms are all on fire following the cladding. The only way to tackle this is through a sprinkler system so it should be mandatory.
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
CrazyHorse said:
The Queen deserves to be heckled more than May. She represents the worst of this rotten system.
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It would be nice of her to offer some spare rooms at the palace, indeed. That should mean the Queen getting a reduction in her bedroom tax too, she does live in a council house after all.
 
M

Mimosa97

Member
samn said:
The 'stiff upper lip' stuff is utter nonsense considering the way we react to terrorist attacks.
Click to expand...

That's a caricature. If you know the history of your own country you'll now that it's more than that and as a frenchman I shouldn't be the one to tell you this.

Also I don't judge the british people by their terrible leadership.
 
S

SkyOdin

Member
riotous said:
The monarchy is so strange to me (as an American); all the royal family seems to do is photo ops. Why would anyone call that a "leader"?
Click to expand...
Meeting people and talking to them is a pretty significant part of any leader's job. Even if it is a mostly symbolic actuon, symbols matter to people. Symbolic actions form the basis for real power and influence. That is why the President of the US does stuff like make calls to victims of tragedy and throw out opening pitches to baseball games. Pagentry exists for a practical reason: it legitimizes authority and solidifies power.
 
S

SlipperyFishes

Banned
riotous said:
So every single member of your armed forces is a leader of your country? Common citizens do the same thing. Their role of monarch is mostly to show up for photo ops it seems.
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This is a shit post. The royals have their flaws and all but they do it do photo ops in the armed forces.
 
P

pulsemyne

Member
Also the only reason Harrys afghanistan stuff got out was because fucking Drudge report leaked it. Every other news agency kept it quiet.
 
R

riotous

Banned
SlipperyFishes said:
This is a shit post. The royals have their flaws and all but they do it do photo ops in the armed forces.
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I didn't say they did. You aren't understanding my point; Prince Henry also went to high school. That wasn't done for a photo op. Nor was it done because he's a royal.

I'm not talking about the things they do that so many other common citizens do; I'm just saying it's strange to compare a PM to a Queen as if their responsibilities are somehow similar.
 
M

Mimosa97

Member
riotous said:
So every single member of your armed forces is a leader of your country? Common citizens do the same thing. Their role of monarch is mostly to show up for photo ops it seems.
Click to expand...

I'm not British but the more you learn about their culture the more you realize that the Queen is a symbole of stability and has a very important role during tragedies.

As you can in the photo above she kinda " saved the day " after the PM refused to meet the people.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Mimosa97 said:
I'm not British but the more you learn about their culture the more you realize that the Queen is a symbole of stability and has a very important role during tragedies.

As you can in the photo above she kinda " saved the day " after the PM refused to meet the people.
Click to expand...

This quite perceptive. The Royals can act as a cultural rallying point from time to time. I also think there is a lot to be said for a stiff-upper lip in a crisis. This is not really a crisis however, it's a tragedy and a crime.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Well, at a fundamental, constitutional level, the Queen is the leader of the nation de jure - huge chunks of the powers of government derive from her authority being granted unto them to do so. The office of Prime Minister derives its powers largely from such an arrangement, hence all the stuff about a Queen's speech. It's also why all laws require her to give final approval, even if it's largely just rubberstamping.

At a more functional level, the Queen is basically a walking diplomatic symbol, both domestically and internationally. She is a living representative of the United Kingdom, which is why kids who've just been through hell can still smile when she turns up - why her visiting victims of tragedy in place of the Prime Minister provokes such fondness. Global leaders will have all sorts of views about each other, but when the Queen invites you to dinner, it's difficult to refuse, and they will offer at least a modicum of respect. Plus, that her estates are home to actual monarchy - the most famous in all the world - is part of why they attract a nice bit of tourist money too.

But, this really isn't a thread for a protracted debate about the ethics of a constitutional monarchy within a nation that nominally promotes democracy. That's more suited to the GE thread or the PoliGaf next to none of us actually use.
 
P

Philly40

Member
The Met Police really need to ditch those stupid helmets - it might be tradition but police forces everywhere else get by without them.


Also any inquest needs to look at private companies who provide services to local government and immediately go into administration as soon as the contract is completed to avoid future liability.

Paying employees through EBTs even though HMRC has been chasing this for years?, sickening.
 
T

Timbuktu

Member
Philly40 said:
If that were the case why doesn't every police force use them, and why don't they have flashing lights on top
Click to expand...

I guess they are only useful for foot patrol but get in the way if you need to get in a car and stuff. They probably cost more than a cap, so austerity likely phased them out for some forces.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
Philly40 said:
But they are known to be impractical, yet they can't be scrapped due to 'tradition'?
Click to expand...

It's happening in some places. One step at a time I guess.

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017...-with-baseball-cap-style-protective-headgear/

Hierophant said:
Why does it seem like all these tabloid journos are fucking shitcunts of the highest order? Where do they get these fuckers and why are they all willing to be such assholes?
Click to expand...

Don't call tabloid reporters journalists. They aren't. Journalists seek the truth. The poisonous fucks at the sun, mail and express merely seek to extend the rule of their tory owners. By any means necessary. They'll even impersonate murdered children to do it.

But people still buy the papers, so maybe that's ok.
 
D

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
chromatic9 said:
Sprinkler system 3-400k and duff cladding 3.5 million.

Should be law to have all flats retrofitted and fire escapes updated but even if not, when you spend 3-4 million on cosmetics whether it's good or bad panels, something is wrong. I wouldn't like to be the person who came up with the refurb plan and ignored all the residents.

Personally all this is good money after bad and this block should've been pulled down in the 2000s. When you start running pipes over front doors the penny should drop. Building is not fit for purpose any more.
Click to expand...

From what I have read nobody ignored anyone. They proposed to install a sprinkler system but a majority of the residents refused because it would've prolongued the renovation. Hence it was not built in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...esidents-nick-paget-brown-claim-a7792736.html
 
N

Nordicus

Member
darkinstinct said:
From what I have read nobody ignored anyone. They proposed to install a sprinkler system but a majority of the residents refused because it would've prolongued the renovation. Hence it was not built in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...esidents-nick-paget-brown-claim-a7792736.html
Click to expand...
Notice that at no point did he explicitly state where he actually got this "refusal" from. The sprinklers could have also been added any other time. He's absolutely trying to wriggle his way out of this.

Grenfell Action Group had been on their as about fire safety for years then.
 
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