May 20 - Draw Mohammed Day

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MIMIC said:
The "non-violent manner" is what led to the death threats and bloodshed, so please stop. You act as if this isn't an intentional method of instigation. Protests usually intend to SOLVE something. WTF does this "protest" intend to solve?

This is like protesting for the right to freely poke a beehive with a stick. Yeah, it's you're right....but damn, it's also stupid.

It intends to solve a problem with religious nutjobs trying to enforce their beliefs on others.

What results of a non-violent issue isn't of my concern. I obviously hope nobody gets hurt, but if a non-violent act creates a fervor that leads to violent the onus is on them.

The free world has a right to certain freedoms, and those should not and cannot be tolerably encroached by anyone or anything, especially religion. If a comedian, artist, comic writer, or nobody on the internet feels the need or desire to draw a mythical figure, he or she has every right to. Period. If a dirty racist does the same, they have the same exact right, and you have the right to shoot ire their way. Regardless, the status quo of huge uproars and death threats can't stand and being left alone is a horrific precedent to allow.

Saturating the world with something SO HORRIFIC will dull the outrage. Or cause a bigger stink, which I somehow doubt. Or will be ignored and only drawings of Muhammad with opportune PR will be made a stink of. Being angry takes energy and they're bound to run out at some point, only to realize it's not a big deal and to concern themselves with themselves, and not what others do. Also with not perverting intended rules within their religion to begin with, but hey that's just what religions by and large do.
 
Count Dookkake said:
:lol

But I swear the likeness was uncanny. Especally when I dropped the wipes into the water and they kinda looked like his funny hat and robes.

Now, in the interest of fairness, there was one major difference... my turd never fucked a child.
It did have anal relations with your good self.
 
Whoompthereitis said:
Please, please please don't draw Mohammed today, guys. Respect other people's beliefs.

Why? What is it about religion that means we must respect it? Unproven theories about ancient beings in the sky don't really seem like something worthy of respect to me. I'm quite sick of this strange belief that we must bend over and treat religion all gently (and differently) than everything else. No. Religion, like everything else is not exempt from satire.

While this may cause offense to otherwise perfectly rational and normal Muslims you cannot demand someone not do something because it might offend your frail beliefs. Least of all on the grounds of unfounded, unproven and frankly ridiculous religions.

I don't believe in Muhammad, or Jesus, or any deity. So who are they to tell me what I can and cannot draw? I am utterly against this idea that religion (of all things) can throw a hissy-fit and we're all expected to bend over and take it. I do not subscribe to your belief system, stop trying to force your laws onto me.
 
MIMIC said:
The "non-violent manner" is what led to the death threats and bloodshed, so please stop. You act as if this isn't an intentional method of instigation. Protests usually intend to SOLVE something. WTF does this "protest" intend to solve?

This is like protesting for the right to freely poke a beehive with a stick. Yeah, it's you're right....but damn, it's also stupid.

This protest intends to solve the problem of some extremists responding to speech they don't like with threats of violence. If they see that their threats are not effective, but actually result in more of the speech they don't like, perhaps they will stop employing them.
 
Oh, what the hell.

The reaction of the government of Pakistan is in response to the outcry by the citizens of Pakistan (yay for democracy). Taken in that light the reaction *of the government* is completely sensible.


Now about the citizens themselves (generally, not just in Pakistan):

This started with an idiotic, if not horrifying, statement made on a small website, revolution-muslim that no one had ever heard of that implied a threat against Comedy Central. As a chain of escalating responses by two sides, united by mutual outrage but differing on the reason, we have the spontaneous display of Draw Muhammad day coming from the ordinary citizens of one side and the spontaneous display of massive protests from the ordinary citizens of the other.

Now as far as Draw Muhammad Day is about making a point about the right to portray and/or criticise, and refusing to be cowed by those who would make threats against it that's all well and good. (As far as it is about just mocking other people and feeling superior, not so good, but that's neither here nor there).

The problem is that firstly, the point about the freedom of speech from one group of ordinary people isn't making any headway to the other group of ordinary people just as the gravity of the offense given by portraying Muhammad isn't making any headway in the other direction so this isn't actually any mutual understanding or bridging between cultures happening here.

The second, and more worrying, problem is that the revoultion-muslim type of jackasses have more fodder for their "they're always attacking us and we must defend ourselves" arguments for the ordinary people of one of the sides and more influence because of it. That's the only thing that matters in my view and things are worse now in that regard.
 
Azih said:
The second, and more worrying, problem is that the revoultion-muslim type of jackasses have more fodder for their "they're always attacking us and we must defend ourselves" arguments.

This is exactly why they're third world, though, so no harm no foul.
rolleyes.gif
 
Azih said:
The second, and more worrying, problem is that the revoultion-muslim type of jackasses have more fodder for their "they're always attacking us and we must defend ourselves" arguments for the ordinary people of one of the sides and more influence because of it. That's the only thing that matters in my view and things are worse now in that regard.

On the other hand, doing nothing gives them a stronger argument that violence actually solves things next time they're offended by who-knows-what.
 
neorej said:
On the other hand, doing nothing gives them a stronger argument that violence actually solves things next time they're offended by who-knows-what.
Extremists only have significant power when they have influence over regular ordinary people. They're only fringe weirdos and jerks without that influence.
 
Azih said:
Extremists only have significant power when they have influence over regular ordinary people. They're only fringe weirdos and jerks without that influence.

And yet they were able to get comedy central to censor one of its shows. That seems like influence to me.
 
Azih said:
Extremists only have significant power when they have influence over regular ordinary people. They're only fringe weirdos and jerks without that influence.
They have power when people give into their death threats and violence. It doesn't help when you have apologists all over the place and people just unwilling to speak out against them or stop them.
 
SimpleDesign said:
They have power when people give into their death threats and violence.
Extremists that are fringe weirdos make death threats all the time and any violence they commit is easily dealt with. Extremists that manage to convince people that they're being attacked and the extremists are the ones who can lead the defense? Well they're a different story.
 
Azih said:
Extremists that are fringe weirdos make death threats all the time and any violence they commit is easily dealt with. Extremists that manage to convince people that they're being attacked and the extremists are the ones who can lead the defense? Well they're a different story.

I wonder if Theo Van Gogh thought the violence was "easily dealt with" as he drew his last breath. Comedy central obviously didn't think it would be. If you think the real problem is that "ordinary people" will be convinced by these "fringe weirdos," perhaps consider that the problem may lie with those "ordinary people" who are so easily convinced.
 
Dude Abides said:
I wonder if Theo Van Gogh thought the violence was "easily dealt with" as he drew his last breath. Comedy central obviously didn't think it would be.
Where did I say the revolution-muslim types were fringe weirdos? Draw Muhammad day, and similar, just pushes them even further from that category then they already were.
 
Azih said:
Where did I say the revolution-muslim types were fringe weirdos? Draw Muhammad day, and similar, just pushes them even further from that category then they already were.
You missed the important part.

If you think the real problem is that "ordinary people" will be convinced by these "fringe weirdos," perhaps consider that the problem may lie with those "ordinary people" who are so easily convinced.
 
SimpleDesign said:
You missed the important part.
Maybe, but the Theo Van Gogh/Comedy Central comparisions still didn't make sense.

If you think the real problem is that "ordinary people" will be convinced by these "fringe weirdos," perhaps consider that the problem may lie with those "ordinary people" who are so easily convinced.
Seeing as I have close family and friends that joined the anti draw Muhammad day facebook groups and I know them to be smart, intelligent, interesting people who are not violent at all... no I don't consider them to be 'problems'.
 
I dont get the big deal about drawing him, dude was the Greatest of All Time!

"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark."

muhammad_ali_579725.jpg
 
Azih said:
Maybe, but the Theo Van Gogh/Comedy Central comparisions still didn't make sense.

Yes they do. Some Muslims respond to speech they don't like with violence. You said it such violence is "easily dealt with," which was complete nonsense in light of the violence that has been perpetrated.

Seeing as I have close family and friends that joined the anti draw Muhammad day facebook groups and I know them to be smart, intelligent, interesting people who are not violent at all... no I don't consider them to be 'problems'.

Are they convinced that they are being attacked and the extremists are leading the resistance? Because that's what you said the problem was - that ordinary people would become convinced of that.
 
Azih said:
Maybe, but the Theo Van Gogh/Comedy Central comparisions still didn't make sense.

Seeing as I have close family and friends that joined the anti draw Muhammad day facebook groups and I know them to be smart, intelligent, interesting people who are not violent at all... no I don't consider them to be 'problems'.
Ok then.
They have all the right to show that they don´t like this, but at the same time, if they are smart and intelligent as you say they are, they will agree that any non-muslim has the right to make these cartoons, don´t they?

In fact, if more muslims made this clear, assholes nutjobs extremists would loose a lot of their perceived "Allah given right" to act like barbarians.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if people actually believed that this day somehow existed in a vaccum. These are the results of this day:
*A entire country of people in pakistan have now had their freedom of expression violated and an religion was antogonised.
*In the spirit of this day, a miniscule number of people have created some incredibly horrible pictures which offend not only the muslims, but also some that are incredibly homophobic/racist/antisemitic etc.
 
Ashes1396 said:
I'm beginning to wonder if people actually believed that this day somehow existed in a vaccum. These are the results of this day:
*A entire country of people in pakistan have now had their freedom of expression violated and an religion was antogonised.

Obviously this is the fault of the people drawing the pictures, and not... you know... a crazy government.

*In the spirit of this day, a miniscule number of people have created some incredibly horrible pictures which offend not only the muslims, but also some that are incredibly homophobic/racist/antisemitic etc.

Pretty sure everyday on the internet is like this. Have you been to 4chan?
 
Ashes1396 said:
I'm beginning to wonder if people actually believed that this day somehow existed in a vaccum. These are the results of this day:
*A entire country of people in pakistan have now had their freedom of expression violated and an religion was antogonised.
I hope what you´re saying is: "Stupid moronic Pakistani government and its backwards censorship that has no place in the modern world".
I agree with you. It´s disgusting.

Ashes1396 said:
*In the spirit of this day, a miniscule number of people have created some incredibly horrible pictures which offend not only the muslims, but also some that are incredibly homophobic/racist/antisemitic etc.
Like every other day on the Internet, but I´d like to think most people, in this case, are standing up for Freedom of Speech.

polyh3dron said:
Wow the Yo Dawg pic is EPIC.
Exactly. :lol
 
SmokyDave said:
Islam needs to modernise in order to find a harmonious place in the west.

this is probably the best quote because it sums up my problem with this day, despite its noble and good intentions, and is what 90% of the people participating are actually thinking
 
People posting images (some incredibly good!) in here need to mosey on over to the Blasphemous Art Gallery thread . This has become the de facto debate thread on the relevant issues but I hate to think that some of the drawings in here won't be seen because people are only following the other thread.


...


SolarPowered, get out of my head.
 
People saying ooooh you better not draw Mohammad are the real discriminators here. Let me illustrate:

2le2ahi.jpg

Typical reaction: Oh lolololol sooo funny


2z82cu8.jpg

Typical reaction: Ohhhhh you shouldn't have done that. oohhh why would you even think about pissing off a billion people; nothing good can come from it ooooohhh.


Stop being prejudiced assholes. You are the ones implying that Muslims need to be coddled to prevent them from suddenly erupting into violent outrage. Muslims don't need you babying their sensitivities for them.
 
As an agnostic who looks at all religions with a bit of comedy infused, I've got to say Mohammed is the worst "prophet" of them all.

What kind of prophet conquers, pillages and then enslaves its female (and male) population? Ironically enough he was poisoned to death after conquering a town. Somehow in all his infinite wisdom, he couldn't see that coming.:lol

If you can make fun of one, you can make fun of all. Don't cower to intimidation by Muslim nutjobs.
 
Unbelievable. I don't disagree with any of what Blackace said except for the actual locking of the thread. In any case I would think this thread would absolutely be locked too under the same grounds (indeed the tone in here was much more vitriolic at times), so I will say thank you all for the discussion and thank you to all those who understood the point of the silly exercise of this day and participated in a civil way.
 
Zeke said:
wow can't believe the other thread got locked that is pretty sad ;(

I think it would be better to ban the people that go over the line, but what is over the line? That's obviously difficult to regulate. The images with nothing more than stick figures stating epithets are obviously missing the point of DMD.

The central focus is drawing the image of Mohammad. Where some are adding in epithets or believe in hurling specific insults at Muslims or Islam has me a little confused. That's not an argument, that's just mindless mob activity.
 
I tend to be a little optimistic and think there can and MUST be something good in any type of NON VIOLENT (online)confrontation between the Western and the Muslim worlds.

Being a visual artist and a proud Canadian that was born and spend my first 10 years in the Mid-East, I can tell you that these current "affairs" hold very true place in my heart.

I am not a Muslim, I am not here to judge or tell you what they teach and don't teach within the religion, but just through observation and study, I've learned that most Muslim youth in countries like Pakistan do not have reliable sources to be properly educated about Western, democratic culture. In fact I believe they are strongly discourage to learn (and understand) about different ideals, laws and traditions in other parts of the world.

A Muslim child most likely spends majority of his mental developing years studying the Quran and not much else.

Having said all of the above: I've been following very closely "Everyone Draw Muhammed Day" page since the beginning of the week, I probably read thousands of comments posted by Offended muslims and by the participants and supporters of the page. There's lotta bullshit there from both parties let me assure you that ....lotta threats, insults, racism, hate mongering, yep it's all there if you wanna go read.

But let me say one thing to you, if you filter out that bullshit mentioned above, a good chunk of comments actually evolve from anger and insult to discussions and debate, I read so many intelligent and evolving (back and forth) debates and discussions by the minority mature crowd on that page. I was delightedly surprised to read a mature person from Pakistan explain his argument to someone mature from the US or Europe about the differences of their ideals and beliefs as a human being.

Basically there was dialogue there, a communication brewing between very "different" people from different parts of the world. And More importantly this was done in a civilized fashion.

But Unfortunately Pakistan's government decided to cut off it's entire population from the rest of the world through facebook and most of these youth who just barely started to spark some common ground with people outside their religious beliefs: Were basically forced to walk away from their computers to make protest banners and go outside, march and burn Danish, Swedish, American flags etc.

As controversial and unnecessary this facebook page might seem to you and some others...It is still this Only window of opportunity created through the popular and effective medium of the internet which allowed Masses from every corner of the planet to share their thoughts and opinions instantly, and maybe even understand and except each other more as fellow human beings.

And that's why I applaud the organizers and support this event.
 
MIMIC said:
The "non-violent manner" is what led to the death threats and bloodshed, so please stop. You act as if this isn't an intentional method of instigation. Protests usually intend to SOLVE something. WTF does this "protest" intend to solve?

This is like protesting for the right to freely poke a beehive with a stick. Yeah, it's you're right....but damn, it's also stupid.
Yeah. And Gandhi's death was his own damn fault. What an idiot he was, standing up for his rights. Do you know how many people he pissed off? And one of them shot him! Clearly his actions were immoral and he got what was coming to him.
 
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