May 20 - Draw Mohammed Day

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I find it rather funny that there are people here getting upset that there are groups of people out there organizing a group to sound their disagreement to the Draw Mohammad day - on Facebook!

Isn't it still within the scope of 'freedom of speech' for those people to organize such a thing? You can't have 'freedom of speech' only going one way--the very concept of it states that everyone can have an opinion about something, and it covers both sides of the coin: the agreeing and the disagreeing. So if anyone is upset about it while at the same time claiming as the supporter of 'freedom of speech'... well it just seems funny to me. Hypocritical, even.

'Freedom of speech'... God sometimes I love and hate this term at the same time...
 
Laughing Banana said:
I find it rather funny that there are people here getting upset that there are groups of people out there organizing a group to sound their disagreement to the Draw Mohammad day - on Facebook!

Isn't it still within the scope of 'freedom of speech' for those people to organize such a thing? You can't have 'freedom of speech' only going one way--the very concept of it states that everyone can have an opinion about something, and it covers both sides of the coin: the agreeing and the disagreeing. So if anyone is upset about it while at the same time claiming as the supporter of 'freedom of speech'... well it just seems funny to me. Hypocritical, even.

'Freedom of speech'... God sometimes I love and hate this term at the same time...
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We are allowed to make fun of them all we want, as long as we don't threaten to kill them.

In simpler terms, whatever it is you find funny, it is not hypocrisy.
 
Laughing Banana said:
I find it rather funny that there are people here getting upset that there are groups of people out there organizing a group to sound their disagreement to the Draw Mohammad day - on Facebook!
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Not at all. Both sides are acting within the spirit of the event. Just as those people are free to protest against the event, the people in the event are free to be upset about the protesters. And that's the way everyone wants it.

Isn't it amazing that nobody has to die?
 
Slavik81 said:
Not at all. Both sides are acting within the spirit of the event. Just as those people are free to protest against the event, the people in the event are free to be upset about the protesters. And that's the way everyone wants it.

Isn't it amazing that nobody has to die?
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Yep, of course. Never said otherwise. I just find it kind of funny that there are some people here seemingly upset about people organizing non-Draw Muhammad Day events on Facebook. Really shows that their concept of 'freedom of speech' is limited to 'I can do things that I like, screw you, but fuck you you are not allowed to do things that I don't like!'

Which is, again, funny, because the very thing that they want to support; 'freedom of speech', covers both the agreeing and the disagreeing.

Anyway, this kind of thing often brings out the worst of people, it seems. I shouldn't be surprised, but still it is kind of shocking just what kind of things people will say, or do, when logic and reasoning are second to emotions and rage.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Yep, of course. Never said otherwise. I just find it kind of funny that there are some people here seemingly upset about people organizing non-Draw Muhammad Day events on Facebook. Really shows that their concept of 'freedom of speech' is limited to 'I can do things that I like, screw you, but fuck you you are not allowed to do things that I don't like!'

Which is, again, funny.

Anyway, this kind of thing often brings out the worst of people, it seems. I shouldn't be surprised, but still it is kind of shocking just what kind of things people will say, or do, when logic and reasoning are second to emotions and rage.
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Not funny, at least not for the reason you think it is.
 
@laughing B:Do you mean like this post:
perfectchaos007 said:
Well the "draw muhammad day" facebook page now has less members than the facebook page called "against draw muhammad day"

freedom loses again
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He is free to say it and is not giving death threats. :)
Although I see what you mean with partial hypocritical part of it.
 
Ashes1396 said:
Do you mean like this post:


He is free to say it and is not recieving death threats. Although I see what you mean with partial hypocritical part of it.
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They are basically using freedom of speech in order to protest freedom of speech. That's what's funny. I'm not saying they shouldn't protest a protest, but thats the irony
 
Laughing Banana said:
Well, I just find it funny nevertheless. What can you do about it, eh? :P

Anyway, let us stop here, okay? Let's just agree to disagree :)
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I can laugh at you for mistaking the enjoyment of freedom of speech with hypocrisy.

:lol
 
Count Dookkake said:
I can laugh at you for mistaking the enjoyment of freedom of speech with hypocrisy.

:lol
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Well isn't it nice, that now both you and I can laugh? :lol

Certainly an improvement from the overall mood surrounding of this thread, at the very least.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
They are basically using freedom of speech in order to protest freedom of speech. That's what's funny. I'm not saying they shouldn't protest a protest, but thats the irony
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I see.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
irony...
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Quick question, what did you mean when you said freedom loses again. The above posts seems to be celebrating it because 'nobody is dying' and 'giving death threats'.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
They are basically using freedom of speech in order to protest freedom of speech. That's what's funny. I'm not saying they shouldn't protest a protest, but thats the irony
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But to use freedom of speech to protest freedom of speech... is still freedom of speech!

*head asplode*
 
Hawkian said:
I would join a facebook group entitled "I support both draw muhammed day and against-draw muhammed day"
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That sounds reasonable enough. And may go some way to clarify perhaps some of the stickier issues on the subject.
@Laughing B: Your making my head spin... :/ :lol
 
Ashes1396 said:
Quick question, what did you mean when you said freedom loses again. The above posts seems to be celebrating it because 'nobody is dying' and 'giving death threats'.
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That was me just being sarcastic. I thought it would be obvious when I was comparing the amount of "like its" on each facebook page.
 
Since I can´t draw anything other than stick figures and it´s already the 20th:

8zi9ex.jpg


Since I´m fine and well and muslims claim Allah is all powerfull I can conclude that it doesn´t give a crap about drawings.
 
Laughing Banana said:
I find it rather funny that there are people here getting upset that there are groups of people out there organizing a group to sound their disagreement to the Draw Mohammad day - on Facebook!

Isn't it still within the scope of 'freedom of speech' for those people to organize such a thing? You can't have 'freedom of speech' only going one way--the very concept of it states that everyone can have an opinion about something, and it covers both sides of the coin: the agreeing and the disagreeing. So if anyone is upset about it while at the same time claiming as the supporter of 'freedom of speech'... well it just seems funny to me. Hypocritical, even.

'Freedom of speech'... God sometimes I love and hate this term at the same time...
Click to expand...

Freedom of speech does not mean that you get to express your view without people making fun of it or criticizing it. Freedom of speech means you get to express your view without angry mobs or the state threatening to harm you because of it. It's a really subtle distinction.
 
Yeah the South Park episodes were funny but a draw Muhammad Day? That's so fucking stupid and immature. Where a "Let's Get Rid of the Patriot Act" day? Then again, you won't be able to draw silly pictures and get a few laughs.
 
Dude Abides said:
Freedom of speech does not mean that you get to express your view without people making fun of it or criticizing it. Freedom of speech means you get to express your view without angry mobs or the state threatening to harm you because of it. It's a really subtle distinction.
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I feel like I am being misunderstood, but let's just stop here. I am posting here at work and being on NeoGAF for too long during work is not very productive at all :lol
 
Dude Abides said:
Freedom of speech does not mean that you get to express your view without people making fun of it or criticizing it. Freedom of speech means you get to express your view without angry mobs or the state threatening to harm you because of it. It's a really subtle distinction.
Click to expand...

Confused here. Are you talking about policy, liberty, actual law or your own thoughts on the subject?
 
Tell me what to do on let's get rid of the patriot act day and I'll do it. Should I detain someone with just cause?
 
MIMIC said:
Yeah the South Park episodes were funny but a draw Muhammad Day? That's so fucking stupid and immature. Where a "Let's Get Rid of the Patriot Act" day? Then again, you won't be able to draw silly pictures and get a few laughs.
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Yeah, how dare people protest death threats and bloodshed and the protection of free speech in a non-violent manner.
 
MIMIC said:
Yeah the South Park episodes were funny but a draw Muhammad Day? That's so fucking stupid and immature. Where a "Let's Get Rid of the Patriot Act" day? Then again, you won't be able to draw silly pictures and get a few laughs.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, do you think the people trying to murder others over cartoons are "stupid and immature"?
 
MIMIC said:
Yeah the South Park episodes were funny but a draw Muhammad Day? That's so fucking stupid and immature. Where a "Let's Get Rid of the Patriot Act" day? Then again, you won't be able to draw silly pictures and get a few laughs.
Click to expand...

:lol

Stop World Hunger Day, where GAF will get together and eat steaks and frozen yogurt! With pics. Merry times and full tummies shall abound

Anywho, I plan on participating as an excuse to dust off my tablet... something I've been meaning to do for several months :/ A little sketch session will be nice
 
Laughing Banana said:
I find it rather funny that there are people here getting upset that there are groups of people out there organizing a group to sound their disagreement to the Draw Mohammad day - on Facebook!

Isn't it still within the scope of 'freedom of speech' for those people to organize such a thing? You can't have 'freedom of speech' only going one way--the very concept of it states that everyone can have an opinion about something, and it covers both sides of the coin: the agreeing and the disagreeing. So if anyone is upset about it while at the same time claiming as the supporter of 'freedom of speech'... well it just seems funny to me. Hypocritical, even.

'Freedom of speech'... God sometimes I love and hate this term at the same time...
Click to expand...

It's certainly odd that anyone would be bent out of shape about the Pakistani protests and marches, since as far as I'm concerned, that is the best-case scenario for this event. Both sides adding to the discourse through peaceful means.

If this whole thing had started as a peaceful march in Pakistan instead of death threats, there would be no Draw Muhammad Day.

It is, however, unfortunate that the Pakistani government is blocking Facebook. Hiding dissent only fosters distrust.
 
MIMIC said:
Yeah the South Park episodes were funny but a draw Muhammad Day? That's so fucking stupid and immature. Where a "Let's Get Rid of the Patriot Act" day? Then again, you won't be able to draw silly pictures and get a few laughs.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of cartoons about GW and his stupidity.
 
Brashnir said:
It's certainly odd that anyone would be bent out of shape about the Pakistani protests and marches, since as far as I'm concerned, that is the best-case scenario for this event. Both sides adding to the discourse through peaceful means.

If this whole thing had started as a peaceful march in Pakistan instead of death threats, there would be no Draw Muhammad Day.

It is, however, unfortunate that the Pakistani government is blocking Facebook. Hiding dissent only fosters distrust.
Click to expand...

Somehow, even if that is the case, I still think--sadly--that 'there would be no Draw Muhammad Day' is not really the surefire end result.

I agree about the Facebook blocking however. No matter how anyone slice it, it can only bring forth bad things.

Crap, I keep posting here at work :lol
 
MIMIC said:
Yeah the South Park episodes were funny but a draw Muhammad Day? That's so fucking stupid and immature. Where a "Let's Get Rid of the Patriot Act" day? Then again, you won't be able to draw silly pictures and get a few laughs.
Click to expand...
Make one, and I'll get behind it. That's all someone did here. They just decided. So you can just decide, too.
 
So, say that about 5 guys make up some story with a character. In that story, they write 'no one may ever draw this character' and they are very passionate about this. You know they are passionate about that. Now, some other guy, who also knows this, draws the character. Not in a really mocking way, just an imagining of the character.

My question is, would you care? Seriously, would you really care if those 5 guys got upset at him for breaking their rules? Most importantly, would you care enough to discuss fervently that no one should draw the character because it might offend those five people?
 
Brashnir said:
It's certainly odd that anyone would be bent out of shape about the Pakistani protests and marches, since as far as I'm concerned, that is the best-case scenario for this event. Both sides adding to the discourse through peaceful means.

If this whole thing had started as a peaceful march in Pakistan instead of death threats, there would be no Draw Muhammad Day.

It is, however, unfortunate that the Pakistani government is blocking Facebook. Hiding dissent only fosters distrust.
Click to expand...

^
Well said sir
 
msv said:
So, say that about 5 guys make up some story with a character. In that story, they write 'no one may ever draw this character' and they are very passionate about this. You know they are passionate about that. Now, some other guy, who also knows this, draws the character. Not in a really mocking way, just an imagining of the character.

My question is, would you care? Seriously, would you really care if those 5 guys got upset at him for breaking their rules? Most importantly, would you care enough to discuss fervently that no one should draw the character because it might offend those five people?
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"the reductionist fallacy of academic analyses: To believe that the meaning of any element in an academic system (analysis thereof) is exhausted merely by relating it directly to a reduced definition of all the interests of the dominant classes at play therein, without inquiring into the contribution this system makes, qua system, towards reproducing the structure of class relations in a society, is an easy way of obtaining, by a sort of pessimistic finalism, the facile answers of an explanation at once ad hoc and all purpose. "

Put plainly, I don't agree with you.
 
Pelydr said:
There are plenty of cartoons about GW and his stupidity.
Click to expand...

There was even a crappy live-action TV show that got two full seasons. And that really shitty cartoon that got two full seasons.

All from Comedy Central..is that ironic or...??
 
Ashes1396 said:
"the reductionist fallacy of academic analyses: To believe that the meaning of any element in an academic system (analysis thereof) is exhausted merely by relating it directly to a reduced definition of all the interests of the dominant classes at play therein, without inquiring into the contribution this system makes, qua system, towards reproducing the structure of class relations in a society, is an easy way of obtaining, by a sort of pessimistic finalism, the facile answers of an explanation at once ad hoc and all purpose. "

Put plainly, I don't agree with you.
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:lol That's nice, you took some philosophy or sociology classes. Can you actually point out in which ways that fallacy applies?
 
idahoblue said:
:lol That's nice, you took some philosophy or sociology classes. Can you actually point out in which ways that fallacy applies?
Click to expand...

Let me see. erm. Well you see now, this goes here and that one goes there... well I don't know, you figure it out. :D
 
Ashes1396 said:
"the reductionist fallacy of academic analyses: To believe that the meaning of any element in an academic system (analysis thereof) is exhausted merely by relating it directly to a reduced definition of all the interests of the dominant classes at play therein, without inquiring into the contribution this system makes, qua system, towards reproducing the structure of class relations in a society, is an easy way of obtaining, by a sort of pessimistic finalism, the facile answers of an explanation at once ad hoc and all purpose. "

Put plainly, I don't agree with you.
Click to expand...
:lol
 
Ashes1396 said:
"the reductionist fallacy of academic analyses: To believe that the meaning of any element in an academic system (analysis thereof) is exhausted merely by relating it directly to a reduced definition of all the interests of the dominant classes at play therein, without inquiring into the contribution this system makes, qua system, towards reproducing the structure of class relations in a society, is an easy way of obtaining, by a sort of pessimistic finalism, the facile answers of an explanation at once ad hoc and all purpose. "

Put plainly, I don't agree with you.
Click to expand...
Great work on copying http://www.angelfire.com/ca/sanmateoissues/socdic/threfaof.html . But anyway, what the hell are you talking about? There's no reduction, it's an analogy. Also, I only wrote down questions, so what is it that you don't agree with?

edit: oh you were joking, my bad.
 
Ashes1396 said:
Let me see. erm. Well you see now, this goes here and that one goes there... well I don't know, you figure it out. :D
Click to expand...
I must have missed the sarcasm. My detector has been malfunctioning lately.
 
I was joking of course, but come on using five guys as direct 'correspondence to 'Islam’ and 'the enormously varied life that goes on within the world of Islam, with its more then 1,000,000,000 people, its millions of square miles of territory principally in Africa and Asia, its dozens of societies, states, histories, geographies, cultures'

Where did I copy and paste that from? Huh! :D

I'm actually done arguing. Both sides have presented their arguments and its up to the individuals to decide their stance on the issue.
 
Pimpwerx said:
Anyone that takes offense at the drawing of their god is not really a religious person. They're just a zealot and worthy of nothing but scorn. PEACE.
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Oh, wait, is this serious? I guess not.
 
Ashes1396 said:
I was joking of course, but come on using five guys as direct 'correspondence to 'Islam’ and 'the enormously varied life that goes on within the world of Islam, with its more then 1,000,000,000 people, its millions of square miles of territory principally in Africa and Asia, its dozens of societies, states, histories, geographies, cultures'
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Why would you treat that number of people differently in this situation than you treat 1000? 100? It doesn't make sense to not care about offending a small amount of people at a time, but do care about offending a large amount at once. Or perhaps even a same sized group that isn't vocal about their offense. I can't think up of any intuitive moral justification for that. I'm interested to see what your moral consists of in defending the big, but not the small.
 
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