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[SimpleDesign]

I guess you think "nigger" is just another word too.

What is this supposed to mean? Drawing a picture of some guy* who lived over a thousand years ago is the same as calling someone a "nigger"?

*

Spoiler

Who had sex with a 9 year old girl.

 

[jakonovski]

Again, why haven't you debated this in threads about Family Guy, South Park, every movie, and every TV show that has something offensive just to be offensive it your years on GAF?

People with a gift for the comedic get away with a lot. When it's some random douchebag saying it with frat-boy level of brain activity, it's not funny to me.

 

[demon]

There's a difference between people being offended and actively going out of your way to offend people: "free speech" should not be used as a tool to remove one's responsibility for their actions - the man who shouts "Fire!" in an open auditorium should not go unpunished.

What the fuck does this even mean? What does shouting fire in an auditorium have to do with this? That is an example of using words to cause immediate harm to others. You're trying to compare that to using free speech as an act of protest against something that is literally an assault on freedom of speech. How much fucking simpler can this be? As for it being offensive, well, I wouldn't say drawing a picture of a man is considered universally offensive. The muslim community chooses to see it that way. So in that sense is it offensive? Sure. But inoffensive speech does not need Freedom of Speech protection in the first place.

Perhaps, but I imagine that the general point is that "free speech" is not a pass to do anything or to say anything you want. Free speech does not remove responsibility from the speaker.

In cases of speech causing actual harm to others, you are correct. In all other cases, you're talking out your ass.

I guess you think "nigger" is just another word too.

That word is directly tied to centuries of hatred and oppression towards black people. It isn't considered offensive for some arbitrary reason like a simple picture of Muhammad.

Nice try, though. (not really)

 

[Maleficence]

I'm starting to come around but you guys don't go far enough. Religion shouldn't be the only thing off the table. Comedians and people at large should stop using words that are mainly used to offend people. Entire populations are offended when you use the word cunt, for example, and it's just got to stop. Since when has freedom of speech been about being able to say things that other people don't like?



Perfect example. I heard comedians use that word and they should be arrested.

Oh great, this again. Nobody is talking legalities here ffs, we're talking about whether it's the right thing to do or not, morally, intelligently etc. Not a SINGLE person has suggested banning this.

 

[Dead Man]

Hey, I have every right to tell you what to say, don't restrict my freedom of speech!

Yep, you do. But you have no right to threaten violence if I don't say what you want. Some people seem to think it only goes one way.

People with a gift for the comedic get away with a lot. When it's some random douchebag saying it with frat-boy level of brain activity, it's not funny to me.

Oh, so your sense of humour is the test of speech now?

 

[Maleficence]

That word is directly tied to centuries of hatred and oppression towards black people. It isn't considered offensive for some arbitrary reason like a simple picture of Muhammad.

It's arbitrary to YOU, it's NOT arbitrary to those who will be offended.

Seriously, do you people have a complete lack of empathy or something?

Yep, you do. But you have no right to threaten violence if I don't say what you want. Some people seem to think it only goes one way.

When the fuck did he threaten you with violence or suggest that was ok?

This thread is filled with misplaced strawmans.

 

[jakonovski]

That word is directly tied to centuries of hatred and oppression towards black people. It isn't considered offensive for some arbitrary reason like a simple picture of Muhammad.

Nice textbook example of cultural chauvinism.

 

[Calcaneus]

When you say "why aren't other Muslims speaking up", I'm sure muslim websites have been denouncing Revolution Islam's statement as crazy, have you gone looking for it?

 

[SimpleDesign]

It's arbitrary to YOU, it's NOT arbitrary to those who will be offended.

Seriously, do you people have a complete lack of empathy or something?

If you make fun of the Catholic church or the Pope you lack empathy.

 

[jay]

A legitimate problem in these discussions is trying to figure out whose perspective is guided by speech arguments and who does actually have a tinge of anti-Islamic racism going on. I can't tell usually but I acknowledge it complicates matters greatly because you never know exactly what you're debating against.

The liberals who should know better but come to the aid of censorship are likely used to facing off against racists and so it's less about the speech issue. Honestly I have taken an anti-Christian view many times when defending against a racist who hates Islam.

We should have a roll call where people make it clear if they're defending or attacking a religion or defending or attacking speech rights. Then the smart people can ignore everyone from the first group.

Oh great, this again. Nobody is talking legalities here ffs, we're talking about whether it's the right thing to do or not, morally, intelligently etc. Not a SINGLE person has suggested banning this.

I was just being silly but that does lead me to my point nicely. Is it the wrong thing to do, morally speaking, to use bad words that offend people?

 

[Mr. B Natural]

why must we have this racialist hate. Why cant we just get along and respect and treat one and other well and nice?

I think we all should sit down and double think what we say. These muslimofobic tendencies must stop. Or else humanity can never move on.

It's not hate. We can't move on until people realize the difference between hate and oversensitivity. The line is drawn with fear mongering and threats. The line is drawn when we have to have a fucking thread and discussion about drawing something. DRAWING SOMETHING.

If muslims were offended by jazz music, would we stop making it? Would we be hating on the muslims if we did?
If muslims were offended by our culture allowing women wear mini-skirts, would we stop?
If muslims were offended when we drew something, would not allow...wait a minute.

You do what you want. It's not hate. It's called living in a 1st world country in the 21st century.

Offended != Hatred. And usually, the only hate going on is by the offended and not the offender. In this case, that's exactly what's going on. The cartoonist from holland wasn't hating on Muslims. He was just making an observation. That's his job. Who hates who?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

People with a gift for the comedic get away with a lot. When it's some random douchebag saying it with frat-boy level of brain activity, it's not funny to me.

So, you're ok with talented comedians... Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Dave Chappelle... offending people as much as they want?

 

[jakonovski]

Oh, so your sense of humour is the test of speech now?

Come on, I'm not going to give you the same benefit of doubt as I do with the Simpsons.

 

[Shanadeus]

Plantu is great.

Spoiler

Je ne dois pas dessiner Mahomet = I must not draw Mohammed.

Now these kinda images I can get behind, not the infantile and inane drawings that people will most likely draw.

 

[Dead Man]

It's arbitrary to YOU, it's NOT arbitrary to those who will be offended.

Seriously, do you people have a complete lack of empathy or something?



When the fuck did he threaten you with violence or suggest that was ok?

This thread is filled with misplaced strawmans.

I never said he did. What the fuck are you reading? I was explaining what my motivation would be if I was to participate in this. Strawman? :lol

Come on, I'm not going to give you the same benefit of doubt as I do with the Simpsons.

Maybe not me, but which comedians make the cut?

 

[Slavik81]

So not being religious means not having any respect toward other people's beliefs?

If that's the case, I'm glad I'm religious. I want to be respectful and have some decency.

It may be against your religion to draw a picture of Mohammed, but it would be wrong to hold everyone to that. That's your belief.

Now, if you'll excuse me. I need to go insult some Jews. It's Sunday, and I'm doing bit of overtime to get stuff done for Monday. I know that working on the Sabbath is very insulting to their God, but they'll have to live with it.

 

[jakonovski]

When you say "why aren't other Muslims speaking up", I'm sure muslim websites have been denouncing Revolution Islam's statement as crazy, have you gone looking for it?

It usually means "they haven't rung my doorbell to apologize personally".

 

[Maleficence]

So, you're ok with talented comedians... Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Dave Chappelle... offending people as much as they want?

Yes, they're unorganised individuals who have the personal freedom to do so, as well as face the consequences of what they decide to say. That's not to say that they deserve death threats, I think death threats are always wrong, but I also don't absolve someone of responsibility under the guise of "Free Speech".

 

[jay]

No body answered if Landover Baptist should close down. Who wants to be the first to admit they have a double standard and mocking Christians is fine?

 

[Bboy AJ]

That word is directly tied to centuries of hatred and oppression towards black people. It isn't considered offensive for some arbitrary reason like a simple picture of Muhammad.

What is wrong with you? I read this and think, he's afraid of black people but not Muslims :lol I can think of no other reason for drawing this arbitrary line.

 

[jakonovski]

Maybe not me, but which comedians make the cut?

The ones I trust not to be jerks.

 

[lol51]

If people get upset, its their own fault for thinking the world is going to play along with their stupid demand.

All demands are stupid unless you are the one making them.

You cannot wear headscarves in france.
You must wear headscarves in saudi arabia.
All food sold should be halal.
All food sold should be kosher.
You shouldn't draw pictures of mohommed.
You should all draw pictures of mohommed on May 20.

 

[Maleficence]

I never said he did. What the fuck are you reading? I was explaining what my motivation would be if I was to participate in this. Strawman? :lol

Why bring up death threats in direct response to someone if they weren't even talking about that?

 

[ianp622]

I want all of you to know that I and many other people are very offended by every single post in this thread. This is not a threat, but I just think you should all know that if you keep posting in this thread, bad things may happen to you. Again, this is not a threat, just a statement of fact.

Anyone who ridicules me for being offended by your posts is an arrogant person who should be more respectful of my views.

 

[Maleficence]

I want all of you to know that I and many other people are very offended by every single post in this thread. This is not a threat, but I just think you should all know that if you keep posting in this thread, bad things may happen to you. Again, this is not a threat, just a statement of fact.

Anyone who ridicules me for being offended by your posts is an arrogant person who should be more respectful of my views.

This is a terrible joke.

 

[Dead Man]

Why bring up death threats in direct response to someone if they weren't even talking about that?

If you haven't followed the conversation, it was pretty simple. He said if I did this it was for juvenile reasons and because I wanted to insult someone. I said no, it would be because I did not believe that people should threaten other people to enforce what they think should be said. He then said it was his freedom of speech to tell people what to say. I agreed, but said it did not extend to making threats, WHICH IS WHAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTING AGAINST.

Got it?

 

[gcubed]

i love the logical jumps exhibited in the first 20 posts of this thread.

You want to draw my spiritual leader?! Well fuck you then, i'm going to draw a black man hanging from a tree and a jew from the holocaust!

 

[Blair]

You must wear headscarves in saudi arabia.

I can get behind this one. If i was in Saudi Arabia, you better believe i'm going to wear a headscarf. Indiana Jones rocked one with style.

 

[jay]

This is a terrible joke.

Why? Only you are allowed to be offended by things?

Give us a list of who is allowed to take offense at what, please.

 

[lol51]

I want all of you to know that I and many other people are very offended by every single post in this thread. This is not a threat, but I just think you should all know that if you keep posting in this thread, bad things may happen to you. Again, this is not a threat, just a statement of fact.

Anyone who ridicules me for being offended by your posts is an arrogant person who should be more respectful of my views.

June 4th - Lets all post offensive things to ianp622 day!

This day is to celebrate our freedom of speech!

 

[Maleficence]

If you haven't followed the conversation, it was pretty simple. He said if I did this it was for juvenile reasons and because I wanted to insult someone. I said no, it would be because I did not believe that people should threaten other people to enforce what they think should be said. He then said it was his freedom of speech to tell people what to say. I agreed, but said it did not extend to making threats, WHICH IS WHAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTING AGAINST.

Got it?

So you just decided to bring it up twice for no apparent reason.

BTW this day is really stupid. That sort of thing?

 

[Dead Man]

So you just decided to bring it up twice for no apparent reason.

BTW this day is really stupid. That sort of thing?

What the hell? I explained why I brought it up. Are you being obtuse?

 

[demon]

It's arbitrary to YOU, it's NOT arbitrary to those who will be offended.

Seriously, do you people have a complete lack of empathy or something?

Nice textbook example of cultural chauvinism.

Give me a fucking break. If you can't tell the difference between choosing to view visual depictions of your prophet as offensive and being offended by a word that symbolizes centuries of oppression and slavery and violence against your people going back only a few generations, then there's no helping you. And quite frankly I find it insulting to black people in this country to equate the connotations with and history of the word "nigger" to drawing a picture of Muhammad. Sorry, but I don't see all reasons to take offense as equal.

 

[jakonovski]

To continue on my attempts to condense this thing:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Walshicus]

Muslims get insulted and made fun of all the time. This is particularly stupid, not because of that, but because it's an organised childish response. A childish response from individuals is one thing, but organsing a whole day dedicated to a childish response is another.

This "Draw Mohammed Day" only exists because there are those in the West who have allowed their fear of controversy to trump their commitment to free speech, and because there is a large part of the Muslim world that probably would like to kill people for doing these cartoons.

This is the reaction.

 

[lol51]

Give me a fucking break. If you can't tell the difference between choosing to view visual depictions of your prophet as offensive and being offended by a word that symbolizes centuries of oppression and slavery and violence against your people going back only a few generations, then there's no helping you. Sorry, but I don't see all reasons to take offense as equal.

You can't really tell people what is offensive. They are either offended or not.

 

[jay]

To continue on my attempts to condense this thing:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Must not be an ACLU member. Defending a core right is not a wrong even if the thing being said is.

 

[Maleficence]

What the hell? I explained why I brought it up. Are you being obtuse?

My point is, you didn't need to bring it up again since you made clear earlier that death threats were wrong. The only reason to bring this up again would be to refute what someonen else says. Buit whatever, since you didn't mean in that sense it doesn't really matter.

 

[Dead Man]

To continue on my attempts to condense this thing:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

LOL, I'll also continue.

All wrongs are not created equal

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Yes, they're unorganised individuals who have the personal freedom to do so, as well as face the consequences of what they decide to say. That's not to say that they deserve death threats, I think death threats are always wrong, but I also don't absolve someone of responsibility under the guise of "Free Speech".

So you want to focus on that?

There's organized atheists. That's offensive to all religions. 4:20 is organized. Tons of people sinning by smoking marijuana. There's organized porn events. Adultry. Organized homosexual gatherings.

 

[jakonovski]

Give me a fucking break. If you can't tell the difference between choosing to view visual depictions of your prophet as offensive and being offended by a word that symbolizes centuries of oppression and slavery and violence against your people going back only a few generations, then there's no helping you. And quite frankly I find it insulting to black people in this country to equate the connotations with and history of the word "nigger" to drawing a picture of Muhammad. Sorry, but I don't see all reasons to take offense as equal.

Religion, that silly arbitrary thing, why would anyone be offended. Unpossible!

 

[ianp622]

This is a terrible joke.

You are so arrogant. Why is what other people get offended by more important than what I get offended by? Because there are more people that are offended by drawings of Mohammed?

June 4th - Lets all post offensive things to ianp622 day!

This day is to celebrate our freedom of speech!

Have you no sense of decency? I told you I was offended by everyone's posts here! Why can't you respect my beliefs?

 

[jakonovski]

LOL, I'll also continue.

All wrongs are not created equal

So you figured that it's ok if you're just a little bit of a jerk? No, I don't believe that will fly among the people who haven't done anything to you and who you offend.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Give me a fucking break. If you can't tell the difference between choosing to view visual depictions of your prophet as offensive and being offended by a word that symbolizes centuries of oppression and slavery and violence against your people going back only a few generations, then there's no helping you. And quite frankly I find it insulting to black people in this country to equate the connotations with and history of the word "nigger" to drawing a picture of Muhammad. Sorry, but I don't see all reasons to take offense as equal.

STFU. You're not black. And you're not muslim.

 

[gcubed]

just for a social experiment i'd be interested in cataloging responses with the location

 

[Dead Man]

Religion, that silly arbitrary thing, why would anyone be offended. Unpossible!

I don't think that was what he was saying. Just that there is a history of hate and violence associated with that imagery, whereas there is not (directed towards Muslims anyway) with depictions of prophets. So one is offensive because it has violent connotations, the other is offensive due to a religious observance.

 

[avatar299]

Is this immature. Yeah it is.

Is it completely justified? Absolutely. Offending someone has never been a crime. If you are Muslim and offended, well welcome to being a Christian/ Mormon/ Catholic, etc etc in America

 

[Maleficence]

You can't really tell people what is offensive. They are either offended or not.

Exactly, and no one was equating it. They're not equal on the magical offensive scale. :lol

You have no right to tell anyone what they can and can't be offended by, especially when you have so little knowledge of their culture and history.

If someone was completely ignorant of the history and culture around the N word, but still used it around a black man, that black man still has every right to be offended by the use of the word.

 

[Dead Man]

So you figured that it's ok if you're just a little bit of a jerk? No, I don't believe that will fly among the people who haven't done anything to you and who you offend.

Well, as I said, I am not participating. But if I was, it would be in defence of a right I hold dear, which as jay said, is not a wrong.

 

[Maleficence]

So you want to focus on that?

There's organized atheists. That's offensive to all religions. 4:20 is organized. Tons of people sinning by smoking marijuana. There's organized porn events. Adultry. Organized homosexual gatherings.

This is the best argument I've ever heard. :lol :lol