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[industrian]

As someone who was forced to leave the country to find employment in 2009, even I can find the humour in a letter like that.

And New Labour have never come across as a party with credible policies to me. Their manifesto in Scotland is essentially "dinnae vote SNP, they'll let the Tories in an' we cannae afford independence" which has been brutally destroyed by both the SNP proving their capability as a governing party, and by the shocking truth that 42% of our electorate voting Labour in 2010 didn't stop the Tories either. The only reason why Tony Blair remained in power for so long that he diluted the difference between Labour and the Conservatives by that much that they were essentially using Tory policies and getting Tory votes for doing so.

 

[Goodlife]

absolutely baffled how likeable and... ordinary ed came across here

He's a decent guy. Like him a lot.
Wish he was further to the left, but he's not too bad

 

[MrChom]

He's a decent guy. Like him a lot.
Wish he was further to the left, but he's not too bad

I don't think the issue is his leftness....I think it's his party's willingness to go back there.

Socialism seems to be a dirty word these days, and frequently it really needn't be. Then again you'll never convince me of the "benefits" of privatised power/rail/roads/gas...

 

[Goodlife]

I don't think the issue is his leftness....I think it's his party's willingness to go back there.

Yeah, that's a very good point

 

[Maledict]

To be fair, a majority of people in the country agree on rails - support for nationalisation was above 60% last time I looked.

Giving Virgin the east coast line was an absolute disgusting outrage. I've been using the Virgin west coast line for 8 years now and it's garbage - constant delays and cancellations, and first class you don't even get a sandwich anymore. Prices are utterly, utterly insane as well - I really don't understand how the free market is supposed to improve services or prices when companies have a completely monopoly on travel to an area?

 

[MrChom]

To be fair, a majority of people in the country agree on rails - support for nationalisation was above 60% last time I looked.

Giving Virgin the east coast line was an absolute disgusting outrage. I've been using the Virgin west coast line for 8 years now and it's garbage - constant delays and cancellations, and first class you don't even get a sandwich anymore. Prices are utterly, utterly insane as well - I really don't understand how the free market is supposed to improve services or prices when companies have a completely monopoly on travel to an area?

The worst part is we have a part nationalisation.... Directly Operated Rail. Taking the lowest subsidy for very high passenger ratings. It is expressly forbidden from bidding on other franchises....meanwhile French and German state owned rail companies CAN bid for our rail franchises. It's potty.

 

[Uzzy]

Don't we pay more in public money now to the rail companies then was spent on British Rail?

Also regarding railways, the SNP's idea of starting HS2 'back to front', as it were, with a connection between Edinburgh/Glasgow and Newcastle, then working down, is actually quite appealing.

The worst part is we have a part nationalisation.... Directly Operated Rail. Taking the lowest subsidy for very high passenger ratings. It is expressly forbidden from bidding on other franchises....meanwhile French and German state owned rail companies CAN bid for our rail franchises. It's potty.

Yeah, state owned companies are terrible and inefficient, unless they're run by the French, the Germans or the fucking Chinese Communist Party. In which case they're welcome here.

 

[liquidtmd]

To be fair, a majority of people in the country agree on rails - support for nationalisation was above 60% last time I looked.

Giving Virgin the east coast line was an absolute disgusting outrage. I've been using the Virgin west coast line for 8 years now and it's garbage - constant delays and cancellations, and first class you don't even get a sandwich anymore. Prices are utterly, utterly insane as well - I really don't understand how the free market is supposed to improve services or prices when companies have a completely monopoly on travel to an area?

Yup this. Round my way if you don't want to travel with Arriva (bus and train) you're SOL. Forever delayed and insanely inconsistent pricing structure for both.

I have zero incentive for trying to minimise my private car use. I realise that's not priority economically for any company but if I was reliant solely on Arrivas public transport, I would have to take into account their delays into my working week and it would probably cost me up to an hour a day extra away from my family.

Thats five hours a week and potentially upto 260 hours extra a year. Not gonna happen

 

[CyclopsRock]

Tbf yeah, there never used to be packed trains back when they were nationalised because no cunt used 'em.

 

[industrian]

With the amount of subsidies that public transport (at least in Scotland) receives, it may as well be nationalised again. First Scotland and other transport companies literally could not survive without the money they receive from the government, not unless people want to pay £100 for a return ticket from Edinburgh to Carlisle.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

If you book specific trains in advance you can get some pretty good deals (I sometimes bump myself up to first just for the hell of it), but the price of anytime / return tickets is often ridiculous.

Protip: If the train is packed, go and sit in the first class bit. There's no one in there, plus no one will check your ticket half the time.

 

[industrian]

Before moving to Asia in 2009, I had been on precisely 4 trains in my entire life (excluding the Glasgow Subway). And two of those were a return trip from the Netherlands > Germany.

Growing up in the Scottish Borders was quite something. I look forward to using the reopened Waverley Line the next time I go back home.

 

[liquidtmd]

If you book specific trains in advance you can get some pretty good deals (I sometimes bump myself up to first just for the hell of it), but the price of anytime / return tickets is often ridiculous.

It is indeed bonkers. In terms of the travel at the same time of day on the same train, if I wanted to get to London depending on how I split the journey up into 'legs', where and what place I purchase it through there's a variable of £100+.

That. Is. Insane.

 

[kmag]

Pretty much. I would say for all intents and purposes they are tied but I'm seeing fewer labour leads.

With todays populus poll showing a 2pt Labour 'lead'*, post Cameron/Miliband 'debate', we've had 9 polls with the field work carried out after that 'debate'

The scores on the doors are 4 Tory leads, 3 Labour leads and 2 ties. There was a period of 3 Tory leads in a row which gave a brief impression of movement, but since then we've had 2 Labour leads, one tory lead and two ties.

If we go back to the budget to today we've had 26 polls. 9 Tory leads, 10 Labour leads and 7 ties

It's still tighter than gnat's arse according to the polls, no one is anywhere near a proper lead above the MOE. Polls showing one party a point or two up have to really be taken as status quo until there is a clear direction of travel over say a week, even then the rolling average is probably the best bet even if it lags.


*LAB - 34% (-)
CON - 32% (-2)
UKIP - 15% (-)
LDEM - 9% (+1)
GRN - 5% (+1)

 

[CyclopsRock]

Just FYI the cost of our trains are very comparable to the rest of Europe. Not as good, natch, but not because of price.

 

[MrChom]

With todays populus poll showing a 2pt Labour 'lead'*, post Cameron/Miliband 'debate', we've had 9 polls with the field work carried out after that 'debate'

The scores on the doors are 4 Tory leads, 3 Labour leads and 2 ties. There was a period of 3 Tory leads in a row which gave a brief impression of movement, but since then we've had 2 Labour leads, one tory lead and two ties.

If we go back to the budget to today we've had 26 polls. 9 Tory leads, 10 Labour leads and 7 ties

It's still tighter than gnat's arse according to the polls, no one is anywhere near a proper lead above the MOE. Polls showing one party a point or two up have to really be taken as status quo until there is a clear direction of travel over say a week, even then the rolling average is probably the best bet even if it lags.


*LAB - 34% (-)
CON - 32% (-2)
UKIP - 15% (-)
LDEM - 9% (+1)
GRN - 5% (+1)

tl;dr - anyone who says they have any idea what the UK Parliament will look like in a few weeks other than "full" is talking out of their backside.

For politicos this is an absolute wet dream because you can talk about all the possible results, swing constituencies, cabinet/shadows losing seats.....but I can't help but feel it will be a govrnmental and economic disaster no matter who hits 323/6 first.

 

[liquidtmd]

tl;dr - anyone who says they have any idea what the UK Parliament will look like in a few weeks other than "full" is talking out of their backside.

For politicos this is an absolute wet dream because you can talk about all the possible results, swing constituencies, cabinet/shadows losing seats.....but I can't help but feel it will be a govrnmental and economic disaster no matter who hits 323/6 first.

Yup. I don't care what promises or declarations the parties have made beforehand: come the results and there's no clear majority, the frantic scramble to find alliances is going to resemble the fights at school not to be left with the uncool kids on their sports team.

Again.

 

[MrChom]

Just FYI the cost of our trains are very comparable to the rest of Europe. Not as good, natch, but not because of price.

Half the problem is knowing when to book, what to book, and who to book it with!

For instance....book online from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury and you will always pay more than at the station at the same time....because at the station they will sell you a ticket to Telford....although it's a longer journey it is FAR cheaper. Madness like that is what creates the frustrations. One friend of mine shaved £40 off a journey from Basingstoke to Birmingham by switching from a single ticket to about 30 individual ones....on the SAME TRAIN.

 

[Jezbollah]

Yup. I don't care what promises or declarations the parties have made beforehand: come the results and there's no clear majority, the frantic scramble to find alliances is going to resemble the fights at school not to be left with the uncool kids on their sports team.

Again.

Well, if the trend continues, the only two party coalition that would hit the 326 mark will be Labour and SNP - and we've seen Ed count that out.

Minority government with strategic voting is going to be the result of this election - who is that Minority government is the question.

 

[Nexus Zero]

because at the station they will sell you a ticket to Telford....although it's a longer journey it is FAR cheaper.

You also end up in Telford

 

[Mr Cola]

Wish broadcasters had a rule that if you are not going to answer the question you will not get airtime or if live you would be cut off and not discussed. This is so stupid at this point.

 

[Tregard]

Things looking up for Green, at least?

 

[Nicktendo86]

The hypocrisy of Labour/Unite/the left is almost not even funny anymore.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...n-donor-used-zerohour-contracts-10151441.html

But in a humiliating ruling for Unite, which has given millions to Labour, it was found to have employed Mr Reuby. The judgment emerged a day after Mr Miliband put banning the vast majority of zero-hour contracts at the heart of Labour’s General Election campaign.

Amid accusations that dozens of its MPs and town halls had employed people on zero hours, Mr Miliband was hit by more controversy when one of his big name business backers admitted employing unpaid interns in the past.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

You also end up in Telford

Thankfully you can alight at Shrewsbury and avoid such an extreme eventuality!

Fist bump to the guy mentioning the Aberystwyth - Shrewsbury link and the amazing quality of ATW. Despite Aberystwyth being a student town and there only being one line out of town, the train company never ever puts on increased capacity at the start and end of term time. Two carriages for a quadrupled load!

Tickets were dumb too. AND the rolling stock was ancient, nearly at Northern Rail standards.

 

[Maledict]

The hypocrisy of Labour/Unite/the left is almost not even funny anymore.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...n-donor-used-zerohour-contracts-10151441.html

Nick, sorry to be a pain but can you slow down on the "Labour are the children of satan, here's a link" posts.

I get you despise labour with every atom in your body, but some actual text to accompany the links would really help stop this becoming a thread where people just scream insults at each other. I like the fact we have a good, cross party and cross political beliefs representation in the UK political threads and I think if we we just start posting attack links (of which there are going to be a LOT more in the next few weeks) we'll lose that.

 

[Chemical Rampancy]

What time is the debate tonight?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Nick, sorry to be a pain but can you slow down on the "Labour are the children of satan, here's a link" posts.

I get you despise labour with every atom in your body, but some actual text to accompany the links would really help stop this becoming a thread where people just scream insults at each other.

Added a quote, am on mobile so am in a hurry.

Its not labour I hate per say, its the hypocrisy. They are offering very little in constructive options for this country.

I get what you say about posting links but, and I really don't want to sound like a dick here so apologies, but I don't think it is for you to say what people can and cannot post. I understand what you say though.

 

[Moze]

What time is the debate tonight?

8pm on itv.

 

[Jezbollah]

8pm on itv.

Also on Radio 5 Live if you're not near the box.

 

[Maledict]

Added a quote, am on mobile so am in a hurry.

Its not labour I hate per say, its the hypocrisy. They are offering very little in constructive options for this country.

I get what you say about posting links but, and I really don't want to sound like a dick here so apologies, but I don't think it is for you to say what people can and cannot post. I understand what you say though.

It's not my place at all to say what people can and can't post - am just saying, if we want to have a debate on politics, issues and the election, blind links aren't going to help that. You should post whatever you want from wherever - I just don't think you'll get much reaction because people tend not to even click blind links. If you want a discussion on something, your views are much more interesting than a newspaper article!

Re hypocrisy, one thing I would like to ask (as you have mentioned the hypocrisy thing before) - why does the hypocrisy of the left annoy you so much more than the (equally in my view) hypocrisy of the right?

 

[Chemical Rampancy]

Sweet, I can watch it before I go gym.

 

[Yen]

Does anyone else find it a bit unfair that they excluded the DUP from the seven way debate considering they included parties with smaller representation in parliament (Greens, UKIP) and regional parties (Plaid Cymru, SNP)?

I mean DUP is shit but they do have the possibility of being in a future coalition considering Dave had preliminary talks with them I believe.

I think you're right but I don't think most Northern Irish people care much because of the possibility of them embarrassing us on TV, though it'd be much more likely that they'd spend all of their time talking about flegs.

If this is untrue, then please forgive my absolute ignorance of Northern Irish politics. But I put this omission down to the political landscape of Northern Ireland being so entrenched into society that there's no way you could convince people to vote in other ways. Unionists will always vote unionist and Irish nationalists will always vote nationalist, with the only change being who is considered the best candidate for that cause (for example, the DUP replacing the UUP as the dominant unionist party.)

You could be right there* but the UUP have no seats and this could very easily stay this way after this election. I'm not sure they have any claim to be there. SF wouldn't take part, and SDLP have 3 seats (which is small enough to not be invited, especially since they aren't one of the two 'ruling' parties)

Spoiler

*I think that Sinn Fein's Gildernew in Fermanagh and South Tyrone is possibly the only politician from the sectarian parties that may have cross-identity support due to her agriculture background and anti-fracking stance. Again, that's one constituency out of 18.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

A couple of things about tonight's debate.

1. What are people's thoughts on the inclusion of Plaid and the SDP? Do you care about what they have to say?

For me although I am interested in Plaid a little given I lived in Aberystwyth for a while, I don't really know if they or the SDP have much to say to English voters. Plaid especially represent a portion of the country that commonly speaks another language and has very specific local history and circumstances.

It feels more like they didn't want to trivialise the two devolved parliaments... but if that is the case why no NI parties?

Secondly, do you see yourself changing your mind based on how the leaders perform tonight? It seems to me that the political story of this election has already been told: Labour voters hate Cameron and Clegg, Lib Dem voters are hiding away waiting for the storm to blow over, Tory voters are either content or want further Tory policies and a referendum, UKIP voters are wiping the dribble off their chin (joke! - they're ravenous about being anti-EU and pro-English) and the neutrals are warded off of the LDs, unimpressed by the other parties and generally apathetic to the point of locking us into a hung parliament before the campaign busses were even rolled out. :/

 

[Chemical Rampancy]

Any bets on which leaders will form unspoken alliances tonight?

If I were Cameron I'd bring up issues which will get Ed, Nick and Theresa scrapping.
If I were Ed I'd play Nigel against David.

Which leader do you guys all think will be targetted most?

 

[Jezbollah]

I expect that Cameron will try the most to stay out of the majority of confrontations and try to get the Greens, UKIP and SNP to go at Labour.

Heard today that with the time (2 hours) and topics involved, that each person will get the equivalent of 1800 words to say - I don't see how tonight doesn't end up as a bit of a clusterfuck and all of them don't look like squabbling children.

 

[liquidtmd]

Secondly, do you see yourself changing your mind based on how the leaders perform tonight?

No...but I'll give brownie points to whoever descends into personal attacks and personality based discussions the least.

If Ed discusses or gets in a Manic Miner reference, all bets are off.

 

[kmag]

Any bets on which leaders will form unspoken alliances tonight?

If I were Cameron I'd bring up issues which will get Ed, Nick and Theresa scrapping.
If I were Ed I'd play Nigel against David.

Which leader do you guys all think will be targetted most?

Cameron (everyone) and Sturgeon (Cameron, Miliband, Clegg and Farage) will get targeted the most. Miliband will get it from Cameron and Clegg

It'll be a clusterfuck. Cameron might want to try and fly above it, but I doubt he can keep flashman totally down during the 18 minute ramble per question

 

[JonathanEx]

I think it'll be hard to properly whip up a fight without much of a chance for people to respond. Too much slagging off of others will probably look bad.

 

[MrChom]

I don't see how tonight doesn't end up as a bit of a clusterfuck and all of them don't look like squabbling children.

See also: House of Commons, The

Cameron is far too practised to be led into anything, Farage will attack everyone, Plaid/SNP/Green will be cast as whining irrelevancies who shouldn't be there, Labour will be attacked on the "You got it wrong from '97-'10" front, and Clegg....oh Clegg. Well let's say people won't know which of his faces to concentrate on while saying his time is past.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think the NI parties aren't included because they don't compete with anyone else. The debate is, supposedly, to help people decide between options, but nobody will have the choice to choose between say, Labour and the DUP. On the other hand, Labour vs. SNP is relevant to at least some people.

 

[JonathanEx]

I think the NI parties aren't included because they don't compete with anyone else. The debate is, supposedly, to help people decide between options, but nobody will have the choice to choose between say, Labour and the DUP. On the other hand, Labour vs. SNP is relevant to at least some people.

And I think the BBC are doing separate NI debates too so they'll be much more relevant and useful with the mix of parties there.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Cameron (everyone) and Sturgeon (Cameron, Miliband, Clegg and Farage) will get targeted the most. Miliband will get it from Cameron and Clegg

It'll be a clusterfuck. Cameron might want to try and fly above it, but I doubt he can keep flashman totally down during the 18 minute ramble per question

I can't see Cameron and Clegg attacking Sturgeon a great deal - the SNP doing well works out, for them at least in the short term, pretty well for their chances of Labour being unable to form a majority. Given that Cameron's preference is of a LD-Con coalition rather than a minority government, I can't see him wanting to do Ed any favours.

 

[industrian]

If my 15 years of watching SNP leaders/candidates being involved in a debate or group interview has taught me anything, it's that they'll get constantly interrupted, talked over, not allowed to speak and generally disparaged by everyone involved.

But this sort of thing just strengthens the resolve of SNP voters really.

 

[operon]

No point in having the NI parties on the debates, all they have to do is wave their flag and they'll get elected. Until the silent majority actually comes out to vote for parties like Alliance etc we'll be stuck with the rubbish we have now.

 

[kmag]

I can't see Cameron and Clegg attacking Sturgeon a great deal - the SNP doing well works out, for them at least in the short term, pretty well for their chances of Labour being unable to form a majority. Given that Cameron's preference is of a LD-Con coalition rather than a minority government, I can't see him wanting to do Ed any favours.

The SNP are likely to take between 7 and 10 Lib Dem seats, that doesn't work out well for Cameron as that's up to 10 seats away from a possible bloc who'd possible consider voting for a Tory queen's speech. Labour aren't polling anywhere near enough for a majority without the 'free' 40 Scottish seats they're use to. In fact if they were likely to win 40 seats in Scotland they'd be polling about 40+% up here which would put another 1-2% on their UK figure.

People forget the SNP aren't just going to win Labour seats in Scotland. They're far far more likely to get Lib Dem seats.

Cameron and Clegg are all going to lump on Sturgeon because they need to show her as a destabilising anti-English, anti-UK force in order to damage Miliband by association. Miliband will need to attack Sturgeon to undercut that damage (even if it's just in terms of the bizarre vote SNP get Tory line Scottish Labour are persisting with, but more likely to put some clear water between the two in the minds of voters). Farage will lump on because he (or the character he's playing) is fundamentally a little Englander who loves to sneer at Scots.

 

[Ravensmash]

I travel by train daily, and the service has been awful recently. Improved recently but I was constantly late home and into work for a period of time.

Train company's response was that they're aware of problems and trying to fix etc. Or that it was network rails fault.

Im pissed off and an unhappy customer, but as they hold a monopoly, I have to just put up with it.

I'd love to see a huge overhaul in how train routes are managed.

Price wise, the amount I pay is absolutely insane. People gasp when I tell them, to the point where I understate how much I pay. But what else can I do?

 

[Walshicus]

Half the problem is knowing when to book, what to book, and who to book it with!

For instance....book online from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury and you will always pay more than at the station at the same time....because at the station they will sell you a ticket to Telford....although it's a longer journey it is FAR cheaper. Madness like that is what creates the frustrations. One friend of mine shaved £40 off a journey from Basingstoke to Birmingham by switching from a single ticket to about 30 individual ones....on the SAME TRAIN.

I buy a season ticket from Southampton to Crawley because its literally the same price as from Chichester despite covering twice the length. Rail prices are weird.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The SNP are likely to take between 7 and 10 Lib Dem seats, that doesn't work out well for Cameron as that's up to 10 seats away from a possible bloc who'd possible consider voting for a Tory queen's speech. Labour aren't polling anywhere near enough for a majority without the 'free' 40 Scottish seats they're use to. In fact if they were likely to win 40 seats in Scotland they'd be polling about 40+% up here which would put another 1-2% on their UK figure.

People forget the SNP aren't just going to win Labour seats in Scotland. They're far far more likely to get Lib Dem seats.

Cameron and Clegg are all going to lump on Sturgeon because they need to show her as a destabilising anti-English, anti-UK force in order to damage Miliband by association. Miliband will need to attack Sturgeon to undercut that damage (even if it's just in terms of the bizarre vote SNP get Tory line Scottish Labour are persisting with, but more likely to put some clear water between the two in the minds of voters). Farage will lump on because he (or the character he's playing) is fundamentally a little Englander who loves to sneer at Scots.

Hmm, mayyyyybe Clegg, but I just don't see it from Cam. I guess we'll see tonight which of us is right!

(Me, btw).

 

[Danj]

I have a question, is there an easy way to get off of Labour's postal mailing list? I keep getting postal spam from them, but I live in a shared house and I don't particularly want people thinking I'm voting Labour.

 

[industrian]

I have a question, is there an easy way to get off of Labour's postal mailing list? I keep getting postal spam from them, but I live in a shared house and I don't particularly want people thinking I'm voting Labour.

Who is it addressed to?

Because they will need to contact Labour to remove themselves from the mailing list.

If they no-longer live there, just return to sender.