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[Thornton Reed]

So gaf - do you reckon we're out of Europe?

based on these results yes i do

 

[Charles Brandon]

He wont even hold a referendum trust me.

I thought his get-out was that he said he would only hold one if he got a majority? Well he's got one now. I hope to god we don't have one though.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Only if he gets the changes he want, Cameron has been giving a gun by the british people

pro EU people should now be worried, as he is about to ride into Brussels with a full mandate to say, meet these demands or we are off...he said on the record he would only say 'stay in' if he got all the changes he wanted, which includes restricting free movement....

to coin a phrase from braveheart

"We've come to pick a fight"

There will be a referendum either way, cameron will just have a better chance of winning it if he is able to get concessions out of the EU.

 

[PJV3]

So gaf - do you reckon we're out of Europe?

I think so, and it's going to be a negative 2 years.
I'd rather we just get it over with, at least the Left could actually have real left wing policies that involve using the state and collective power again.

Spoiler

Old socialist with split views on the EU

 

[CCS]

It could always be worse, you could be a lib dem supporter

Very true, I believe they're now up to £145,000 in lost deposits.

 

[RedSparrows]

Apologies, I cited the total public spending figure there. Yes, this is correct. But it's undeniable that it's still incredibly high and incredibly unoptimised.

And it's also undeniable that fraud and exploitation account for a miniscule proportion of that budget, and that this budget does not exist in a vacuum, i.e. there are many other budgets that go up and down, thus affecting this one.

Finally, what on earth does 'optimise' mean in this context? 'Efficiency'? None of these words are neutral, that's the real crux of the issue.

 

[iMax]

Very true, I believe they're now up to £145,000 in lost deposits.

What's more shocking is they lost £0 in deposits in 2010. Incredible shift.

 

[Thornton Reed]

If you're a Labour supporter, it couldn't be worse. Tory majority, SNP rampant, Balls lost his seat, Miliband resigning later.

lots of labour voters hate this guy

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I thought his get-out was that he said he would only hold one if he got a majority? Well he's got one now. I hope to god we don't have one though.

Maybe we will see if a majority of parliament really wants one.

 

[D4Danger]

If you're a Labour supporter, it couldn't be worse. Tory majority, SNP rampant, Balls lost his seat, Miliband resigning later.

It could be worse. If Balls had won he could've been the next leader

think about that

 

[thequickandthedead]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

 

[kharma45]

I genuinely feel that you're not on the right bus. The hyperbole is off the charts.

This thread is a laugh a minute with some of the meltdowns.

 

[iMax]

And it's also undeniable that fraud and exploitation account for a miniscule proportion of that budget, and that this budget does not exist in a vacuum, i.e. there are many other budgets that go up and down, thus affecting this one.

Finally, what on earth does 'optimise' mean in this context? 'Efficiency'? None of these words are neutral, that's the real crux of the issue.

For the reasons I cited. Stretching its worth. Stopping wastage and exploitation. And at risk of sounding like Nicola Murray, driving people to work and contribute to themselves wherever possible, so they can move onwards and upwards.

 

[CCS]

lots of labour voters hate this guy

It could be worse. If Balls had won he could've been the next leader

think about that

While these are fair points, it's pretty catastrophic if you're the opposition and your shadow chancellor loses his seat.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Maybe we will see if a majority of parliament really wants one.

Good point

 

[BossDarkseid]

If you're a Labour supporter, it couldn't be worse. Tory majority, SNP rampant, Balls lost his seat, Miliband resigning later.

Not really what I'd call a Lab supporter but I did vote Labour...taking a leap of faith in deciding to believe in some of their policies I just felt more optimistic about my future than I did with anyone else standing. In 2010 I had voted Conservative though (it was my first election, don't bite! )...

I know it's to do with FPTP but am I the only one surprised that SNP got all of their seats with supposedly about 1.5 million votes out of a population of over 5 million?

 

[RedSparrows]

There will be a referendum either way, cameron will just have a better chance of winning it if he is able to get concessions out of the EU.

Here's how I see it.

Cameron will toddle off to Europe again, asking for concessions. Europe will say 'hahahaha, fuck off'. Cameron will toddle back. Churchillian imagery will rule as myopic nostalgia 'we love history' idiocy takes hold. EU referendum. Cameron doesn't really want to leave. Part of his party and the electorate do. Rock, hard place.

Everything implodes and we suddenly all discover our inner social democrat, huzzah!

/dreams

 

[Hasney]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Well for my area, turnout was up almost exactly 10% and Labour actually managed to increase their majority, but UKIP managed to get 15% of the vote, which is a touch depressing.

.

 

[CCS]

Not really what I'd call a Lab supporter but I did vote Labour...taking a leap of faith in deciding to believe in some of their policies I just felt more optimistic about my future than I did with anyone else standing. In 2010 I had voted Conservative though (it was my first election, don't bite! )...

I know it's to do with FPTP but am I the only one surprised that SNP got all of their seats with supposedly about 1.5 million votes out of a population of over 5 million?

Pretty much. Anything over 35% of the vote will win you any given seat most of the time.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So gaf - do you reckon we're out of Europe?

It'll be close run. If Cameron wanted to, then his would already be over. He'd host the referendum very early when the Liberal Democrats and Labour have absolutely no political capital and the debate would be abrupt and one-sided. As it is, Cameron will probably try and leave the referendum until late in his term, so that he can rely on there being other people to fight it. For the first time, though, it seems very probable we could.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

While these are fair points, it's pretty catastrophic if you're the opposition and your shadow chancellor loses his seat.

in that it means you've lost other people, yes
in that it means you've lost ed balls, no. I suspect that for many labour mp's this is one of the few bright spots of the night

 

[tomtom94]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Norwich North - CON hold. Majority increased by over 500 votes. Looks like the collapse of the Lib Dem vote helped UKIP (up 4,000) and Conservatives (up 1,800).

 

[driver116]

lots of labour voters hate this guy

The guy was coming off as disillusional last night in an interview. The labour needs to cut the fat and reform and take Scotland seriously.

 

[pashmilla]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Mine voted Tory, no fucking surprise there. I hate my town.

 

[kmag]

Apologies, I cited the total public spending figure there. Yes, this is correct. But it's undeniable that it's still incredibly high and incredibly unoptimised.

Where do you save £12 billion out of the £80 billion left after pensions are removed from the pot? Especially when other some other benefits have been sort of protected (depending if you believed Dave during the campaign)

 

[CCS]

Incidentally, who do Labour supporters want for leader? I'm going with Chuka Umunna.

 

[Vagabundo]

Cameron is between a rock and a hard place with EU. The Germans could dig in and give very little. His own party, the SNP.

I'd say it is even money on England leaving the EU. God only know what will happen in NI the tension up there will be massive if the UK voted out ,and of course that would probably trigger another Scottish referendum, and them staying in.

England would sail off into their conservative future. 4ever Tory.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Only if he gets the changes he want, Cameron has been giving a gun by the british people

pro EU people should now be worried, as he is about to ride into Brussels with a full mandate to say, meet these demands or we are off...he said on the record he would only say 'stay in' if he got all the changes he wanted, which includes restricting free movement....

to coin a phrase from braveheart

"We've come to pick a fight"

Ain't going to happen, the Eurocrats and European partners are pretty fed up with the British.

 

[Tak3n]

so here is the good and the bad


no tax rises for this parliament

Eu referendum

Human rights bill scrapped

Four year benefit ban

Annual migration down to 10's of thousands

 

[iMax]

Where do you save £12 billion out of the £80 billion left after pensions are removed from the pot? Especially when other some other benefits have been sort of protected (depending if you believed Dave during the campaign)

Well, perhaps you don't, as I said. So more internal revenue is required, for example, through the closure of tax exploitation and avoidance. But of course that has to be carefully balanced, too, so as not to lose FDI. It's a tricky path.

 

[twobear]

Where do you save £12 billion out of the £80 billion left after pensions are removed from the pot? Especially when other some other benefits have been sort of protected (depending if you believed Dave during the campaign)

why wouldn't you believe him? he's never lied about this kind of thing in the past.

 

[jonno394]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

68% turnout, Con hold with 55% of the votes. UKIP got 15% of the votes

 

[RedSparrows]

For the reasons I cited. Stretching its worth. Stopping wastage and exploitation.

Yes, cutting wastage and exploitation is desirable (but is it ever entirely possible? Surely entropy says no [I venture]), I don't think anyone disagrees. But even if it was totally removed, the budget would still be large, given the small numbers involved.

So then 'wastage' becomes something more than 'fraud', it becomes 'giving money to people who don't deserve it'. By whose criteria? IDS's?

'Stretching its worth' is difficult. Cost of living increases, benefits reduce? And this is still ignoring the fact we're talking about the spending accounting for under half of that budget, at most.

 

[Charles Brandon]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Ealing Central and Acton - swing to Labour

 

[NandyRewman]

I was charged with the allegation that I aligned my views with a party that don't care about the criminalisation of disabled people. I don't know how much more clear I could've made it.

You said:

If you don't like it, vote for what's important to you, as I did.

Which is a clear implication that you don't care about it. It isn't important to you, so you didn't vote for it. It is important to me. But, like I said, I don't care who you voted for. We all do what we do for different reasons. That's fine.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

So if England left the EU, and Scotland voted to stay in... those in England who still want the benefits of the EU could just move to Scotland?

 

[Tak3n]

Ain't going to happen, the Eurocrats and European partners are pretty fed up with the British.

I tend to agree, but he said, if they did not agree to these demands then he will campaign to leave the EU

 

[SmokyDave]

so here is the good and the bad


no tax rises for this parliament

Eu referendum

Human rights bill scrapped

Four year benefit ban

Annual migration down to 10's of thousands

You forgot to list the bad stuff.

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Labour hold. Same as it ever was, same as it ever will be. My area is Labour as fuck.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Curious but how were the polls so wrong? Nothing predicted a Tory majority?

I know it's to do with FPTP but am I the only one surprised that SNP got all of their seats with supposedly about 1.5 million votes out of a population of over 5 million?

Cos all the bloody Yes voters vited SNP, the No vote was split amongst everything else.

 

[sasliquid]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Mines actually fine (Harrow West). Voted for the party I believe but got the best candidate (Labour)

 

[Tak3n]

So if England left the EU, and Scotland voted to stay in... those in England who still want the benefits of the EU could just move to Scotland?

cant happen, they already said before the election that if the vote is to leave then Scotland will have to follow

 

[JonathanEx]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

I'm happy. Labour, margin increased. But mainly happy because of the person as I think he was a very good MP regardless of party.


Glad I'm not still in my old seat, Cons hold and I'm not fond of the guy. Against gay marriage bitter whiny man.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

How are your constituencies doing BritGaf?

Well basically all of Scotland turned yellow and I'm livid.

 

[driver116]

So if England left the EU, and Scotland voted to stay in... those in England who still want the benefits of the EU could just move to Scotland?

The entire UK leaves the EU including Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

 

[disco]

I voted Green. I live in Westminster. I knew I was throwing my vote away.

 

[Moze]

You forgot to list the bad stuff.


Labour hold. Same as it ever was, same as it ever will be. My area is Labour as fuck.

Who did you vote for?

 

[CCS]

My constituency (Oxford East) actually saw Labour hugely increase their majority. It was 8% over the Lib Dems last time, but with their collapse the majority is now 30% over the Tories.

 

[Tak3n]

You forgot to list the bad stuff.


Labour hold. Same as it ever was, same as it ever will be. My area is Labour as fuck.

I thought that was lol

 

[kmag]

Well, perhaps you don't, as I said. So more internal revenue is required, for example, through the closure of tax exploitation and avoidance.

They're all ready hoping to get £7.5 billion a year through a crack down on tax exploitation and avoidance (which the IFS don't believe is easily realisable). Above that they needed to find £12 billion in welfare cuts before their largely unfounded campaign panic giveways which amount to £30 billion.

I'm almost positive the Tories had thought a coalition was likely so they could that to throw out half their manifesto like in 2010.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Curious but how were the polls so wrong? Nothing predicted a Tory majority?

FPTP is just impossible to predict. A uniform swing just isn't how it always works.