Cameron has been a master of making everything he says sound neutral from the start. That's not going to change. His rhetoric is really quite astounding.
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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
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Cameron has been a master of making everything he says sound neutral from the start. That's not going to change. His rhetoric is really quite astounding.
it begins
Jean-Claude Juncker
✔ ‎@JunckerEU
Congratulations, @David_Cameron for a resounding victory.I am ready to work with you to strike a fair deal for the UK http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-15-4953_en.htm
Jean-Claude Juncker
✔ ‎@JunckerEU
Congratulations, @David_Cameron for a resounding victory.I am ready to work with you to strike a fair deal for the UK http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-15-4953_en.htm
Huw_Dawson
Member
If he has any sense he won't. He can live out a life of luxury as a guest on panel shows for the rest of his life.
Take a lot at this thread and it's easy to see why.
The rhetoric of them being better with the economy stuck, that's the main reason. Don't forget as well, a lot of voters have not very properly lived with a Tory majority so for some that will be worse off over the next 5 years, I think it will shake them to a different path. They just need this wake up call.
Huw_Dawson
Member
They didn't, the majority voted for other people.
Little England voted for the Tories.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Farage will probably settle down in a nice Spanish villa for retirement.
Carl2291
Member
Right Click - Search on Juncker and the first thing I see is a news article on him wanting an EU Army. No thanks, Juncker.
You can say that, but at the same time, they still garnered the biggest single.portion of the vote. Without UKIP, they'd have been a lot closer to 50% of the entire vote.
it's not like I like you or anything, baka
Imagine a thing that you like. Someone else doesn't like it. Now imagine a thing that you don't like. Someone else likes it.
That's my 'introduction to preferences' course. An audiobook version isn't currently available, but I've got a spare copy of Liquid Skin by Gomez that I could probably record over for you if the price is right.
Johnlenham
Member
I work in the NHS and some people were happy about the result, I was like wtf?
I guess this will be 5 years of getting savaged so everyone gets to learn the hard way.
Seems to be "whhey the tax allowance went up so im bettter off" mixed with "yeah people that dont work are scum and dont deserve OUR tax money"
Pretty fucked up
Choc chip or oatmeal?
As for UKIP I think you are right. UKIP will get bigger as more people get pissed off.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Why Labour never stood up for themselves properly regarding this bullshit, i'll never understand. Last time we had a Tory majority we had two recessions, but people believe any old bullshit they read, apparently.
Oh, and this is the current state of play with the economical genius party: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/public-sector-borrowing_n_4314805.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Will be interesting to see if they continue to blame Labour for the 'inherited mess' etc.
I'm hoping you're right re: the youth vote, my gut tells me we'll have a higher proportion of young Tory voters than expected. Lots of current voters weren't alive during the 80's and have very little concept of how bad a majority Tory party can be.
I agree with a lot of this. Disagree slightly about the Lib Dem stuff, but that's neither here nor there now. Good writeup, thanks for the post.
EU army would be great, especially needed now that Russia's playing up again.
EU already has a military force and it makes a lot of sense. Its not about replacing current militaries but saying that Europe has security needs and some of those are joint. So theres a task force that can respond rather than needing all the militaries to meet up and work it out - its basically a pre-agreed structure should it be needed.
The naval mission in the med is an example.
SymbiantXenos
Member
LoveCake
Member
If the LibDems were not in coalition it would have been worse & the tuition fees would have been higher/more.
Every politician lies, it is nothing new.
My point is that the LibDems were punished basically on a single issue, which has set liberalism back decades, they will never recover in my lifetime.
The only way the LibDems have any hope in the future is if the voting is changed to full proportional representation, which is never going to happen if CON or LAB are in charge, turkeys are not going to vote for xmas.
Even though there are going to be big calls for electoral reform, with UKIP & Greens getting millions of combined votes & just two MP's, CON & LAB will never vote for it.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Main reason they never acknowledged it is because they would still have to admit there was a recession.
Yeah, I just shared that above. The main thing the Tories have done is shuffle around wealth and borrowing and welfare. (We all know who it benefits most.)
But really, an economic argument for any party is a fallacy. The fact is: shit is going down on an international scale in 'the West' and nobody is doing a great job of handling it. Except a few of those continental-European economic-powerhouse-countries.
People just don't give a shit. If they think they're alright they see no reason to change.
The press didn't help. Members of my family were trying to tell me that the spike in A+E waiting times and lack of beds over the past year was because of Labour and they fucking believe it. This despite some bad personal experiences with the NHS amongst our family in the last 12 months. The rhetoric sticks if you shout it long enough.
Labour needed to stick the boot in, hard. Instead they just tickled them a bit.
This is about policies that will affect millions of people, not what biscuit you like or something silly like that. This is barely an argument and seems rather dickish.
I live in Cambridge - it's student central. Unfortunately they let the local libdem lose to Labour last night by 600 votes despite his years of hard work, his voting record and his qualifications.
Dumb as rocks.
Kotetsu534
Member
Take a look at this list of some of the "big beasts" who fell at this election. Must have an "end of an era" feel to it for those on the centre-left of UK politics.
Ed Balls
Vince Cable
Danny Alexander
Jim Murphy
Douglas Alexander
George Galloway
Margaret Curran
Cathy Jamieson
Anas Sarwar
Ed Davey
Simon Hughes
Jo Swinson
Michael Moore
Lynne Featherstone
David Laws
Charles Kennedy
Nick Clegg (held seat, resigns as leader)
Ed Miliband (held seat, resigns as leader)
Harriet Harman (held seat, resigns as deputy leader)
Nigel Farage (resigns as UKIP leader)
Esther McVey
Labour will turn to the likes of Ummuna, Lammy, Cooper etc. to form the shadow cabinet following the leadership election. The Lib Dems' rebuilding job will take multiple parliaments. Cameron will likely face more scrutiny from his eurosceptic backbenchers than anyone else during the next 5 years.
Many of the above I do not mind seeing the back of, but I'll miss several of them. Watching a shell-shocked Vince Cable realise he was finished in Twickenham was the saddest moment of the night for me.
Ed Balls
Vince Cable
Danny Alexander
Jim Murphy
Douglas Alexander
George Galloway
Margaret Curran
Cathy Jamieson
Anas Sarwar
Ed Davey
Simon Hughes
Jo Swinson
Michael Moore
Lynne Featherstone
David Laws
Charles Kennedy
Nick Clegg (held seat, resigns as leader)
Ed Miliband (held seat, resigns as leader)
Harriet Harman (held seat, resigns as deputy leader)
Nigel Farage (resigns as UKIP leader)
Esther McVey
Labour will turn to the likes of Ummuna, Lammy, Cooper etc. to form the shadow cabinet following the leadership election. The Lib Dems' rebuilding job will take multiple parliaments. Cameron will likely face more scrutiny from his eurosceptic backbenchers than anyone else during the next 5 years.
Many of the above I do not mind seeing the back of, but I'll miss several of them. Watching a shell-shocked Vince Cable realise he was finished in Twickenham was the saddest moment of the night for me.
It's not even a 'Southern' thing either.
Look at the beautiful North East.
It's not even a 'Southern' thing either.
That's a whole lot of blue.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Vince Cable did seem a sound guy, I'm not really sure what the deal is with swapping parties - any chance he might?
It was always kind of sad to hear him talk, to know that the Tories were engaging in economic deception of the highest order, but to have to pretend that he went along with it.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Yeah, you're right. My rantings are a little unfocussed today, mainly due to my disappointment with my nation for giving a majority to the Tories. I'm not even a Labour fan anymore, but ffs.
Anyway, what i'm trying to say is on any other day with a clear head I would be making the same points as you.
And Yorkshire dammit! I can even credit Bradford for once now Galloway is gone.
Lol christ wept
I know a guy who was the fucking head of NUPE back in the 50s and 60s, and he fucking voted UKIP because the only paper dropped on his doorstep was the Daily Express
In principle I am totally for free press, for the massive amounts of important shit that gets done thanks to that principle. But the stranglehold which the press has on people's opinions and politics is just too tight. We need to regulate political shit in papers now imo, just like TV. The Sun has swayed every election their way since the 70s. That is just not on
Amen, brother
Ah come on man, it was just a little levity. I'm not going to provide a real argument because none is needed. People voted Conservative for a variety of reasons, many of which will be perfectly valid.
31GhostsIV
Banned
I may be wrong (it's been a long day) but isn't Cable a former Labour guy?
Be a bit difficult to given his scathing comments towards Labour and the Conservatives.
31GhostsIV
Banned
(fist bump)
I think the biggest reason for people who changed from Lib Dem/Labour to Tory is the economy. Rightly or wrongly, they've convinced the public they're the best with the purse strings and that ended up being the biggest reason for the swing towards them.
I personally don't agree that Labours borrowing and "over-spending" hurt the country that bad, but credit to the Tory campaign, they've managed to make that stick for a decade and convince people that their borrowing this term was just macro-economics, which would be fine if someone could explain that rather using their soundbites.
I don't personally feel the Conservatives on here have properly expressed why though. The main reasons offered seem to be that they've personally done well under them, or because they fear Labour may tank the economy again, whilst fair reasons, they are also somewhat dubious, especially the latter, which isn't really grounded in reality, and is instead a sentiment born out of fearmongering and false propaganda.
It would also be a MASSIVE cost saving for all of us....but would require some foreign policy sacrifices.
A century from there probably will be a federal EU state, mind. Army, President, the lot...and a small irrelevant Island floating off the North-West with its fingers in its ears SCREAMING "Rule Britannia" as the world passes it by.
Julian Huppert voted against giving police who wistleblow on child abuse protection from the official secrets act which is ultimately why I didn't vote for him. (Voted Green) Although in most areas he seemed decent.
I guess, fair enough. But there are also very real, valid reasons why people would be so nervous with a Tory majority government.
This is seriously the most bizarre thing. I mean if they had a genuine change of opinion and decided the Conservatives would better serve their interests then that's one thing, but punishing a party they supported for forming a coalition with a party on the other side of the political spectrum by...voting for that party on the other side of the political spectrum makes no sense at all.
I do hope they get back on their feet though, preferably sooner rather than later. As a former student the whole tuition fees thing left enough of a sour taste that I couldn't in good conscience vote for them this time (though I didn't expect them to lose quite this badly, and I live in one of the safest Labour seats in the country to begin with), but they still seem to be the party that represents my views the best and they did do *some* good in the coalition (tax allowance, blocking that ridiculous snoopers' charter to name two), they just didn't do a very good job of advertising it. Must suck for long-standing LD MPs who lost their seats last night despite doing their best with the cards they were dealt, though.
EU Army is a fine idea really. There's already EU Battlegroups, Eurocorps and others in place, showing a desire for some joint military organisations amongst EU members. Eurocorps also has a damn good looking coat of arms too.
Anyway, better co-operation and co-ordination amongst EU member states regarding their militaries would be a smart thing. There's a lot of benefits to be had. For example, in procurement, it's a waste if different countries spend lots of money on projects to obtain the same end goal, so better co-ordination in procurement can eliminate waste.
Yes mate, the Tories are going to hang up closed signs on all the hospitals and commit political suicide in the process
Yep. There are pretty clear cut ways of seeing who will benefit from what and the priorities which each party have. This isn't just a case of, "ooh, I fancy a Tory for the next five years!" Or "those Lib Dems really have me miffed".
There are clear cut reasons for voting certain ways and facts about the way politicians have behaved in the past. If you look at the people who have had a worse time of it in the last five years from a Toy govt, then it becomes clear that maybe they aren't best for everyone. And that's a fact, not some arbitrary opinion.
A lot of it comes down to stubbornness, pack mentality and irrational loyalty along the lines of party politics. I can show categorical facts about how good immigrants are to a UKIP voter, but they'll never change their mind. People close their minds to shit all the time.
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