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[jelly]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

 

[nib95]

Yes mate, the Tories are going to hang up closed signs on all the hospitals and commit political suicide in the process

Of course they won't do that, but it is very possible they will start dematerialising or re-managing it to pave the way for future privatisations.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

Jesus Christ it hasn't even been a day.

 

[Daemul]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

Lord have mercy....

 

[twobear]

I live in Cambridge - it's student central. Unfortunately they let the local libdem lose to Labour last night by 600 votes despite his years of hard work, his voting record and his qualifications.

Dumb as rocks.

In Cambridge myself. Voted Labour with a heavy heart because every indication was that it would be a very close election and I didn't want the Tories in power.

You can imagine how I feel today.

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

Yeah but fuck them, got mine.

 

[SomTervo]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

Oh come one

For those who can't read the link, the headline:

'Hours after the election, the Department for Work and Pensions says it is looking to cut a disabled access to work scheme'

 

[Real Hero]

I am actually surprised Galloway lost by so much. He actually thought he was gunna be deciding factor in getting a labour government LOL!

 

[31GhostsIV]

From the Obama Administration to Cameron

(via http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-and-libdems-crushed-in-shock-election-result)

The Obama administration sent its congratulations to Cameron but, in reference to a future UK referendum on the EU, restated its preference for the UK remaining a strong EU member.

“The UK’s relationship with the EU is first and foremost a question for the British people and the British government, not for us,” the deputy secretary of state, Antony Blinken, told The Guardian during a telephone briefing.

But he added: “From our perspective – and we’ve said this on a number of occasions – we value a strong UK voice in the EU. The EU for us is a critical partner on global issues as well on European issues and transatlantic issues and we very much welcome an outward-looking EU with the UK in it. We benefit when the EU is unified, speaking with a single voice, focused on our shared interests around the world and in Europe.

“Regardless of that, the UK is obviously a very significant player in the world and a longstanding and important friend to the United States and we will have always enjoy a special relationship.”

 

[kitch9]

People just don't give a shit. If they think they're alright they see no reason to change.

The press didn't help. Members of my family were trying to tell me that the spike in A+E waiting times and lack of beds over the past year was because of Labour and they fucking believe it. This despite some bad personal experiences with the NHS amongst our family in the last 12 months. The rhetoric sticks if you shout it long enough.

Labour needed to stick the boot in, hard. Instead they just tickled them a bit.

Lack of beds is an extremely broad statement fella, lack of beds in what? A+Es get busy all over the world, no point crying about it. If you stub your toe you have to wait for those who are dying to either stop dying or get on with the job.

 

[GeordieMark]

There was no reckless spending. Please check your facts.

Ok, how about selling off gold at knock down prices? Shrewd.

 

[nib95]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

So already a potential cut to the disabled access to work scheme, and also the Snooper's charter potentially returning, this time mostly unchallenged. Great start!

 

[Hasney]

Random question, but for those of you that have engaged people outside of the internet about politics today, how are you finding the discourse?

I've seen complaints about this thread and sure, you're always going to find a hyperbolic portion no matter where you go especially with the anonymity, but I always enjoy a bit of a pub crawl on election day and listen in on arguments over smokes outside and usually get dragged in for my viewpoint. It's an entertaining hobby.

This year isn't that entertaining, it feels like American politics looks on the outside. There's never any conceding of points, it's just your turn to talk when you yell "NO NO NO" or "You're wrong!!!". It's beginning to feel that the level of our debates is going to sink to that and I actually blame the TV debates. Everyone is ill-informed to some level about some issue and if people can back up their argument properly, it should be respected.

It's made me miss my 2 best friends from college more than usual. One being much more left to the point of almost being communist to me and the other being a Tory boy. Man, those debates outside the pub were brilliant.

 

[twobear]

Ok, how about selling off gold at knock down prices? Shrewd.

The fact that this is the single thing that Tories ever bring up, as though this single handedly tanked an entire economy. This is some real barrel-bottom scraping shit. You really think that this alone is as bad as ruining the economic recovery, dragging out the recession, and setting GDP growth back by up to a decade?

Lack of beds is an extremely broad statement fella, lack of beds in what? A+Es get busy all over the world, no point crying about it. If you stub your toe you have to wait for those who are dying to either stop dying or get on with the job.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/ae-waiting-times-england

A&E waiting times are their worst in a decade.

Almost like all those cuts are having an effect or something? Could it possibly be that these wondrous 'efficiency savings' are actually having a measurably bad effect on the NHS? Could it be that...the Tories have lied?

 

[TM94]

Stockton South though.

It was also worrying for me how close UKIP got in Hartlepool.

Yeah just had a look, closer than you would have thought.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Yeah just had a look, closer than you would have thought.

Gotta keep those French Monkey Spies out.

- reference for safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger)

 

[WayneMorse]

So already a potential cut to the disabled access to work scheme, and also the Snooper's charter potentially returning, this time mostly unchallenged. Great start!

This country is going to become neoliberal North Korea.

Can't wait to see how miserable the country will become when I return from America at the end of June.

 

[Malikov]

Jarvis for next labour leader imo

should probably try to woo cable back aswell as he's good despite this mornings events

 

[N7Commander95]

The fact that this is the single thing that Tories ever bring up, as though this single handedly tanked an entire economy. This is some real barrel-bottom scraping shit. You really think that this alone is as bad as ruining the economic recovery, dragging out the recession, and setting GDP growth back by up to a decade?



http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/ae-waiting-times-england

A&E waiting times are their worst in a decade.

Almost like all those cuts are having an effect or something? Could it possibly be that these wondrous 'efficiency savings' are actually having a measurably bad effect on the NHS? Could it be that...the Tories have lied?

Goodness no, dont be silly, its all lefty propaganda
/s

 

[GeordieMark]

You're seriously blaming the market crash on government spending?

Nope. But their policies influenced how well positioned the country was to deal with it.

And it turned out we were not very well positioned at all, apart from not being in the Euro. Our borrowing was pretty high under Labour.

I love reading the comments here. Blame the Tories for all you want, but accept that the other parties simply did not do enough to convince enough people. I see people falling over themselves to write Russell Brand-inspired rants on social media. How about directing that ire at the piss poor efforts of the opposition to put up a decent fight and get their messages across, and make themselves credible?

 

[kitch9]

The fact that this is the single thing that Tories ever bring up, as though this single handedly tanked an entire economy. This is some real barrel-bottom scraping shit. You really think that this alone is as bad as ruining the economic recovery, dragging out the recession, and setting GDP growth back by up to a decade?



http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/ae-waiting-times-england

A&E waiting times are their worst in a decade.

Almost like all those cuts are having an effect or something? Could it possibly be that these wondrous 'efficiency savings' are actually having a measurably bad effect on the NHS? Could it be that...the Tories have lied?

Patient numbers increased 4% that's massive. Maybe look at the whole picture?

 

[GeordieMark]

The fact that this is the single thing that Tories ever bring up, as though this single handedly tanked an entire economy. This is some real barrel-bottom scraping shit. You really think that this alone is as bad as ruining the economic recovery, dragging out the recession, and setting GDP growth back by up to a decade?



http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/ae-waiting-times-england

A&E waiting times are their worst in a decade.

Almost like all those cuts are having an effect or something? Could it possibly be that these wondrous 'efficiency savings' are actually having a measurably bad effect on the NHS? Could it be that...the Tories have lied?

I can't take you seriously if you are citing The Guardian as your source

There are pros and cons to pretty much all of the suggested methods of recovering economically. It's not like the alternative to austerity is fool proof and without risk.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Yes mate, the Tories are going to hang up closed signs on all the hospitals and commit political suicide in the process

No one is saying they will come out and go that far straight away

What will happen is cuts will be made, the news will focus on how bad the NHS is and the magic solution will be for private companies to come in and help. Bit by bit it will be sold off and before you know it the whole thing will be private.

It's as clear as day.

 

[SomTervo]

Lack of beds is an extremely broad statement fella, lack of beds in what? A+Es get busy all over the world, no point crying about it. If you stub your toe you have to wait for those who are dying to either stop dying or get on with the job.

There were countless NHS professionals and experts in England saying that the waiting time target failures and lack of A&E beds (IIRC over winter 2014-2015 in a few counties) were due to increasingly tight budgets. This was an unusually busy and long winter, but it still came down to budget.

In case you don't know what this means in practice: there are fewer staff on the wards to make sure patients are handled efficiently, creating bottlenecks, fewer ambulances and more challenges in answering emergencies, fewer actual health care professionals to treat patients – and all the staff who are on hand are stretched thin, working insane hours in increasingly unpleasant conditions.

This is hardly the story everywhere, but it's the story in a lot of counties where the budget was tighter than usual.

"No point crying about it" - do you not realise that if the NHS had a bigger budget, there would be nothing to "cry" about? There would be plenty of staff and space which would keep people cared for well and prevent bottlenecks. This is what's happening in Scotland where we're in control of it ourselves!

Ok, how about selling off gold at knock down prices? Shrewd.

?

 

[LoveCake]

I live in Cambridge - it's student central. Unfortunately they let the local libdem lose to Labour last night by 600 votes despite his years of hard work, his voting record and his qualifications.

Dumb as rocks.

I know the LIB MP was in the same situation here.

 

[m.i.s.]

Some commentary from Matt Carr-

I thought there would be a close result overall, possibly a narrow Labour victory and most likely a hung parliament that would have stymied the Tories and forced Miliband into some kind of progressive, anti-austerity coalition.

After all, you don’t need to be particularly radical to think that proposals like abolishing non-dom status or imposing an energy freeze might appeal even to people whose political passions are as lukewarm as the Labour Party leadership’s, especially when compared with the prospect of five more years of a government poised to introduce the most savage cuts to social welfare since the 1930s. But nope, even those little social democratic sweeties couldn’t bring the electorate round. Instead British – I mean English – voters chose to reward one of the most vicious rightwing governments in British history with a near majority.

It’s a result that was made possible by a sheeplike, frightened and rancorous population that appears increasingly disposed to believe all the lies that it is told by its vile newspapers. It is an irrational, stupid and fearful vote by an electorate that doesn’t even recognize its own self-interest, let alone the interests of others, that has abandoned any commitment to even the most elementary principles of social justice; that couldn’t even see that Miliband’s tepid, focus-group-manufactured One Nation ‘fairness’ was still preferable to the dismal social cruelty that the government has already inflicted and which is certain to intensify in the next five years.

In doing so the English have demonstrated extraordinary political cowardice. Lacking the gumption to challenge the powerful, they have preferred to elect a government that victimizes the powerless. This is a population that prefers to doff the cap than bite the hand that it thinks feeds; that expresses its digusts with politicians by voting in the worst of them; that drapes itself in the Union Jack and doffs its collective hat to its masters in the hope that it can be like them; that would rather blame the Scots who want to fight austerity than fight it themselves.

I know that this vote doesn’t represent majority opinion either in England or in the UK as a whole; the British voting system ensures that few votes ever do.

Even in Gordon Brown’s constituency, the SNP won with with a 10,000 swing. So much for the big clunking fist who ‘saved the union.’ Labour’s fate was clearly sealed in Scotland long before the election, through years of taking its electorate for granted and through its alliance with the Tories over the referendum campaign. But even during this campaign Nicola Sturgeon continually put forward the idea of a ‘progressive anti-austerity alliance’ on both sides of the border, which Miliband continually rejected.

What a coward and what a fool. Instead he tried to convince the electorate that Labour was the party of social justice, even as he remained committed to an austerity programme of unspecified cuts that was essentially a ‘softer’ version of what the Tories were already planning. He tried to please all the people and ended up pleasing very few of them. He didn’t convince left-leaning voters that he would ‘change the way the country is run’ and he didn’t convince those who already believe in Tory economic ‘competence’ that he could run it more efficiently.

In the end the head boy failed to become PM. He failed to offer a convincing, compelling and inspiring vision of the future to counter the Tories’ crude but effective choice between ‘stability’ and ‘chaos’ or the notion that Labour would damage the fledgling ‘recovery’ that is already faltering. This message was rammed relentlessly home by the rightwing press and even by the Independent, which declared itself in favour of Tory/Lib Dem ‘stability.

The Cameron/Crosby team didn’t just convince a timid electorate that the status quo was better than the future that Labour was offering; they also appealed directly to English nationalism, with a ‘Vote Labour – Get Sturgeon/Salmond’ mantra that will always have traction in a country that always believes it is being unfairly treated and taken advantage of by foreigners of some kind or another, even if those ‘foreigners’ are Scots.

Whatever you think of the SNP’s ability to deliver on its social democratic credentials, its appeal to the Scots electorate is clearly based on very different premises than the beligerent, rancorous, flagwaving, royal baby worshipping, foreigner-hating nativism that is driving English nationalism in its current manifestation.

In Scotland, ‘nationalism’ produced a movement in which a 20-year-old student can overturn a Labour majority of 16,000 in Paisley and Renfrewshire South. In her victory speech Mhairi Black promised that she would fight to end austerity cuts that are hurting communities ‘ both north and south of the border.’

God only knows what might have happened if we had had more people of her age and with her passion and commitment down here in darkest England. Black, and the voters who elected her, have been inspired by a new and postive vision of Scotland’s collective future to take a gigantic leap into the political unknown. Here we have the rancid pseudo-rebellion of Ukip, and a population that is too terrified of its own shadow to abandon a spurious ‘stability’ which promises nothing but the demise of many of the things that it claims to hold dear.

Media Lens Message Board

 

[twobear]

Nope. But their policies influenced how well positioned the country was to deal with it.

And it turned out we were not very well positioned at all, apart from not being in the Euro. Our borrowing was pretty high under Labour.

I love reading the comments here. Blame the Tories for all you want, but accept that the other parties simply did not do enough to convince enough people. I see people falling over themselves to write Russell Brand-inspired rants on social media. How about directing that ire at the piss poor efforts of the opposition to put up a decent fight and get their messages across, and make themselves credible?

Lots of us progressive voters blame Labour for their failure to be an opposition party, so I'm just going to set that aside.

Our borrowing was not particularly high under Labour. That's a myth. It became unusually high when we bailed out the banks, which was absolutely the right thing to do (although we absolutely should not have let them off the hook so easily).

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data#img-1

Borrowing was actually higher under Lamont and Clarke than it was under most of Brown's chancellorship; up until the crash in 2007, when it leapt up when we bailed out the banks and automatic stabilisers kicked in.

 

[cyberheater]

Imagine a thing that you like. Someone else doesn't like it. Now imagine a thing that you don't like. Someone else likes it.

That's my 'introduction to preferences' course. An audiobook version isn't currently available, but I've got a spare copy of Liquid Skin by Gomez that I could probably record over for you if the price is right.

It's okay Dave. I think I get the gist of what you're saying.

I work in the NHS and some people were happy about the result, I was like wtf?

Yep. Unbelievable really.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I can't take you seriously if you are citing The Guardian as your source

Why? Is there a risk they might have doctored be NHS source they cite?

http://www.england.nhs.uk/statistic...nd-emergency-admissions-week-ending-29-march/

 

[TM94]

Gotta keep those French Monkey Spies out.

- reference for safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger)

At least the sanddancers

Spoiler

south shields

had a greater gap.

UKIP still second though.

 

[SomTervo]

Nope. But their policies influenced how well positioned the country was to deal with it.

And it turned out we were not very well positioned at all, apart from not being in the Euro. Our borrowing was pretty high under Labour.

The Tories borrowed more in the last three years than Labour did in thirteen years.

This has been posted several times in the thread

I'm not anti-Tory at all, but people have to open their fucking eyes for god's sake.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: I am not a Labour supporter, either. In fact I almost didn't vote because every party is shit.

There's a narrative about Labour being satan pushed by every Tory, simply because it let's them dodge any issues they would otherwise get taken to task on. When the Tories do anything wrong: "Oh, it's because Labour fucked it up!" It's a joke, a fallacy, and insane that no Tory supporters seem to notice how much they drop this line whenever anything doesn't go their way.

Also it was a global economic recession in the mid-00s. Labour went overboard with the welfare state, abso-fucking-lutely, but even if they hadn't done that, we would all have gone up shit creek with a turd for a paddle. If the Tories had been in power in the mid-00s, almost nothing would have been different.

 

[Hasney]

It's not even a 'Southern' thing either.

Exactly. If Labour managed to win more in the north or at the very least put up a fight, I think there'd be more of an argument that the campaign/leader wasn't the issue.

The most enlightening thing I found about this election (and most heartening about a Tory win really, in spite of it not being a real result) is from my girlfriends constituency. I started bitching about my hometown of Daventry being a safe Tory seat and how those who are just there to be on the London line were the ones making that happen while local jobs were shrinking as I grew up. I tried to either get an audience with my Tory MP or at least a letter reply when I was 18, but I never got anything which always made me dismiss the right even more than my own personal viewpoints would have. She gave a very different picture of her leaning left, but not really objecting to the current MP because she is very engaged with the local community, no matter the issue.

Up here, a very safe Labour seat that even managed to increase it's majority, I've always gotten a response so I assumed it was a right wing thing until I grew up. We elected 1 UKIP member as our MEP unfortunately, but full credit, when I wrote to my MEP's about the problem with the food part of a proposed trade agreement with the US, they came back with a sensible response. I'm glad my experience growing up isn't experienced by everyone.

 

[GeordieMark]

Why? Is there a risk they might have doctored be NHS source they cite?

http://www.england.nhs.uk/statistic...nd-emergency-admissions-week-ending-29-march/

Do I have to explain? Really??

 

[Miles Quaritch]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

No-one could have predicted this.

No one at all, it's not like plans to institute devastating cuts were leaked before the election.

There's literally no point getting upset over this.

 

[Nokterian]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

RIP UK..

 

[twobear]

[edit] Whatever. Not worth my time.

 

[Best]

Nope. But their policies influenced how well positioned the country was to deal with it.

And it turned out we were not very well positioned at all, apart from not being in the Euro.

We were growing in 2010, could borrow at extremely low rates and had our central bank. Honestly, we really couldn't have been in a much better position.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

It begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

Heartless....

 

[Beefy]

This thread has just become bitchy now.

 

[SomTervo]

Do I have to explain? Really??

?

Your posts are going increasingly off the deep end, bub

 

[Tak3n]

Random question, but for those of you that have engaged people outside of the internet about politics today, how are you finding the discourse?

nope no outside world there

 

[kitch9]

No one is saying they will come out and go that far straight away

What will happen is cuts will be made, the news will focus on how bad the NHS is and the magic solution will be for private companies to come in and help. Bit by bit it will be sold off and before you know it the whole thing will be private.

It's as clear as day.

No its not as it's an electorate red line. The NHS will be protected at the expense of other departments by every political party.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Do I have to explain? Really??

I'd like the explanation.

 

[twobear]

No its not as it's an electorate red line. The NHS will be protected at the expense of other departments by every political party.

You live in a fantasy world. The NHS has already had its budget ringfenced in real terms in an even harsher way than Thatcher ever attempted.

 

[kitch9]

RIP UK..

Maybe read the article instead of the headline and come back to us.

 

[SomTervo]

This thread has just become bitchy now.

Thank christ I have real life to drag me out of it for the next 40 hours of so, starting in... twenty minutes...

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No its not as it's an electorate red line. The NHS will be protected at the expense of other departments by every political party.

Nice cloud you've got your head in there.

 

[kitch9]

Nice cloud you've got your head in there.

Spending has been pledged as per independent recommendation.

 

[SomTervo]

No its not as it's an electorate red line. The NHS will be protected at the expense of other departments by every political party.

You live in a fantasy world. The NHS has already had its budget ringfenced in real terms in an even harsher way than Thatcher ever attempted.

No its not as it's an electorate red line. The NHS will be protected at the expense of other departments by every political party.

Nice cloud you've got your head in there.

.

 

[RedShift]

If I remember right the first episode of Adam Curtis's All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace was pretty insightful into what happened in 92. Think it might be worth a rewatch now.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Do I have to explain? Really??

You're not disputing the facts though, right?