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[Varion]

I just made a post on Facebook about some of the articles I've been reading, curious to see what GAF thinks:

It's pretty much dead on. I didn't really think there was any chance of electoral reform (point 2) regardless of whoever won (the AV referendum's likely killed any chance of that for a few decades at the least), but the rest are absolutely true. It really does feel as though it's going to be at least ten years before there's any chance of a switch in the ruling party now. Not that this is the fault of anyone but the Labour and Lib Dem Parties for failing to get their message across and falling out of touch with voters to begin with, but it's certainly a bleak outlook for the people who voted for them like myself.

But yeah, the final paragraph is right. In particular, talking down to people and being beligerent is an amazing way to make people want to stick to their views even more strongly. It doesn't make them want to listen to what you have to say, it just puts them on the defensive. So the attitude that 'people voted wrongly so they need to be made to feel like idiots and educated' is a bad one from basically every angle.

 

[Saiyar]

1. Rule of 'nothing on the BBC' means that it is inevitably covered by them.

2. it's 100 people angry at the government who are always angry at them

who gives a shit

I have honestly lost count of the numbers of times I have heard someone complain about the BBC not covering an event only to go to the website to find them reporting on said event.

 

[twobear]

The problem is that the idea of "welfare queens", to borrow a term from American politics that I think is what you are getting at, is not borne out by the reality of people claiming benefits. The majority of our welfare spending goes on either people in work (tax credits) or state pensions. This means that any cuts to actual benefits yield little more than diminishing returns.

I just made a post on Facebook about some of the articles I've been reading, curious to see what GAF thinks:

I think your points are very true and worthwhile.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

You answered my question with another question. Possibly a legitimate one also, maybe even leads down the same path I'm going down

I'm not implying fraud either.

As I've said earlier in this thread, there were already measures in place to weed out people claiming benefits fraudulently and verify whether they actually needed them. They were fairly strict, a pain in the arse but ultimately effective. Labour introduced the ATOS medicals but the Tories raised the threshold at which they award benefits in order to save money, then stood with their hands in the air saying "But Labour introduced the tests!" and then raised the threshold again.

As for your other question, no, these savage benefit cuts and sanctions combined with millions now reliant on food banks to feed themselves and their children did not happen under Labour. I'm not quite sure what you expected the answer to be.

 

[Empty]

I have honestly lost count of the numbers of times I have heard someone complain about the BBC not covering an event only to go to the website to find them reporting on said event.

this, but in general the endless complaining on social media about people's pet protests not being covered enough is incredibly tiresome. feels like some people really get off on the idea of everyone being against them and suppressing their truth and love to feel it constantly, like conspiracy theorists, even if it's largely imaginary.

like why would you want the bbc to cover this anyway. it's embarrassing. no political issue or specific policy objection is being raised through the story. it's just some people having bad democratic spirit.

 

[danwarb]

1. Rule of 'nothing on the BBC' means that it is inevitably covered by them.

2. it's 100 people angry at the government who are always angry at them

who gives a shit

More than 100. I can't find anything on the website.

 

[JonathanEx]

can't believe this media blackout

More than 100. I can't find anything on the website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2015-32664767
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518

 

[RedSparrows]

Just to counter balance. I've seen lots of people claiming to protest the Tory Government for...being elected basically.

Naturally, and it's depressed venting, often hyperbolic. All I'm saying is this guy comes back with a retort of monumentally stupid proportions, and how annoying Facebook is

 

[danwarb]

Proportional representation would fix it. 36.9% is not a majority. The Tories will get to push through some horrible shite now, pretty much unopposed.

Their "snoopers charter", constituency boundary changes, pointless EU referendum that can only do damage. Taking housing benefit from young people will have some terrible consequences.

Also fox hunting.

 

[RedSparrows]

can't believe this media blackout

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2015-32664767
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518

Not sure what's more depressing: the idiocy of people mucking up a protest which is aimed at a political goal I have much sympathy with, or the Mail's speed at being able to show it to Disgusted of Middle England with dollops of glee.

What kind of politically illiterate fool spraypaints a war memorial (let alone disrespectful)?

 

[kharma45]

1. Rule of 'nothing on the BBC' means that it is inevitably covered by them.

2. it's 100 people angry at the government who are always angry at them

who gives a shit

I see one of them vandalised a war memorial.

 

[danwarb]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2015-32664767
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518

Thanks. I heard about it, saw streams, no links to be found on the main pages.

 

[Best]

Middle England won't be disgusted once they lose their child benefit

 

[CyclopsRock]

Interesting piece:

http://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-demt...y-voted-conservative-to-achieve-it-45857.html

It basically says that because they Lib Dems lost so many seats to the Tories, it seems unlikely that their major problem was that they were perceived as being Tory stooges. But I guess this depends on the area.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

Middle England won't be disgusted once they lose their child benefit

And statutory maternity pay, which has been revealed as one of the first on the chopping block should employers not decide to pay it themselves.

 

[Empty]

this is the start of chuka's leadership campaign btw

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cognise-the-mistakes-we-made?CMP=share_btn_tw

- ignore scotland for the moment, focus on england
- appeal to aspirational middle classes, conservative voters
- keep the stuff about the 1'%, tax evasion, non-doms
- but don't come across as anti-buisness in rhetoric
- beat the tories on the economic record, like johnson annoyed by labour not attacking the tory claims they bankrupted the country
- pro public sector reform, more private-public partnerships
- decentralization of power
- be more international in scope, but no mention of foreign policy
- pro electoral reform (somewhat related to ignoring scotland, i'd imagine)

 

[Jackpot]

To be fair, I didn't know anything had happened in London because there's no mention of it on the Beeb's front page.

Sturgeon 'bursting with pride'
What difference would PR have made?
Labour leadership: Likely contenders
The David Cameron story
Mark Easton: A divided nation
Labour leadership search begins
UK student killed in Nepal earthquake
Concert held to remember VE Day
Russia stages massive WW2 parade
PM selects his first Tory cabinet
Spain military plane crash kills four
NHS trust 'sorry' for cancer scare
'Dozens dead' in Iraq prison break
Tories make gains in council polls
Macedonia police fight 'terrorists'
N Korea 'tests submarine missile'
Sturgeon's photo call with new MPs
Diplomats who survived helicopter crash
V Day celebration outside Bolshoi Theatre
Liberation Day remembered in Jersey
Apple v Android: Which watch wins?
Ex-con artist now making millions
Harry gets Maori welcome
Voters 'influenced by TV debates'

 

[Real Hero]

I'm not a fan of Chuka. No major reason i just don't seem him as leader.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I have honestly lost count of the numbers of times I have heard someone complain about the BBC not covering an event only to go to the website to find them reporting on said event.

common case of perception providing a false sense of reality.

 

[phisheep]

Interesting piece:

http://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-demt...y-voted-conservative-to-achieve-it-45857.html

It basically says that because they Lib Dems lost so many seats to the Tories, it seems unlikely that their major problem was that they were perceived as being Tory stooges. But I guess this depends on the area.

I think they had two problems. "Tory stooges" lost them just over half their seats - basically the old Sdp; that last-minute explicit talk of linkup with Labour lost them the Whole of the West Country, which has had no historical labour presence.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's the top news item on the news ATM btw.

 

[danwarb]

To be fair, I didn't know anything had happened in London because there's no mention of it on the Beeb's front page.

Sturgeon 'bursting with pride'
What difference would PR have made?
Labour leadership: Likely contenders
The David Cameron story
Mark Easton: A divided nation
Labour leadership search begins
UK student killed in Nepal earthquake
Concert held to remember VE Day
Russia stages massive WW2 parade
PM selects his first Tory cabinet
Spain military plane crash kills four
NHS trust 'sorry' for cancer scare
'Dozens dead' in Iraq prison break
Tories make gains in council polls
Macedonia police fight 'terrorists'
N Korea 'tests submarine missile'
Sturgeon's photo call with new MPs
Diplomats who survived helicopter crash
V Day celebration outside Bolshoi Theatre
Liberation Day remembered in Jersey
Apple v Android: Which watch wins?
Ex-con artist now making millions
Harry gets Maori welcome
Voters 'influenced by TV debates'

Right. You've got to type it into the search field or you won't see it.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

this is the start of chuka's leadership campaign btw

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cognise-the-mistakes-we-made?CMP=share_btn_tw

- ignore scotland for the moment, focus on england
- appeal to aspirational middle classes, conservative voters
- keep the stuff about the 1'%, tax evasion, non-doms
- but don't come across as anti-buisness in rhetoric
- beat the tories on the economic record, like johnson annoyed by labour not attacking the tory claims they bankrupted the country
- pro public sector reform, more private-public partnerships
- decentralization of power
- be more international in scope, but no mention of foreign policy
- pro electoral reform (somewhat related to ignoring scotland, i'd imagine)

urgh, that won't help the SNP#s cause at all nooo >_>

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Gove moves to justice secretary.

Lol!

 

[Kathian]

urgh, that won't help the SNP#s cause at all nooo >_>

Chucka was the party of the party that failed. miliband failed to leave London for years.

 

[danwarb]

I know a lot of you are very disappointed the conservatives won, especially in the manner they did as well..

Hopefully this will make you feel better, What would of happened under PR, basically tories still win, but UKIP become 3rd largest party

FPTP is bollocks. PR at least represents the actual vote, instead of completely ignoring the majority of voters.

 

[tomtom94]

Gove moves to justice secretary.

Lol!

Why am I reminded of Jeremy Hunt's punishment for his performance as culture secretary by his being moved to Health?

 

[War Peaceman]

Gove moves to justice secretary.

Lol!

Oh the injustice.

What a cunt.

He treated teachers like criminals and I wonder if he'll treat criminals like teachers?

 

[RedShift]

Out if interest, has any of English GAF changed their mind on Scottish independence? Either going from go for it to no, or no to go for it?

Yes. I still wish it wouldn't happen, but I think the arguments for it are pretty convincing. During the referendum campaign I was convinced that we weren't as different from Scotland politically. Thursday night killed that idea stone dead for me.

I'd still rather a federal system probably, but if the UK drags its feet over the Smith commission then I'd totally understand if Scotland gives up waiting and just leaves.

Oh, and if England votes to leave the EU I'd not just understand Scotland wanting to leave, I'd actively encourage it so I could move there.

 

[danwarb]

Maybe we'll get some for-profit prisons to go with our for-profit health service.

 

[Conan-san]

Oh, and if England votes to leave the EU I'd not just understand Scotland wanting to leave, I'd actively encourage it so I could move there.

I'm convinced the next refrendum will be ether in 2021 on the provision of a SNP majority or imediately after a yes vote to leave the EU.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Maybe we'll get some for-profit prisons to go with our for-profit health service.

We've had private prisons for over 25 years.

 

[King_Moc]

Maybe we'll get some for-profit prisons to go with our for-profit health service.

Nothing wrong with monetising prisons. Get the inmates to to work for a pittance while they're in there. Everyone's a winner.

 

[SlickShoes]

FPTP is bollocks. PR at least represents the actual vote, instead of completely ignoring the majority of voters.

Then you also risk alienating Scotland NI and Wales even further than they already are, we are supposed to be united in this kingdom but proportional just makes it solely England that decides everything due to sheer volume of population. You can't have a union of countries with that system.

 

[Conan-san]

Nothing wrong with monetising prisons. Get the inmates to to work for a pittance while they're in there. Everyone's a winner.

Gets them ready to work for a pittance when they're out at least.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Gets them ready to work for a pittance when they're out at least.

Plus the prisoners would still be treated better than the unemployed

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Nothing wrong with monetising prisons. Get the inmates to to work for a pittance while they're in there. Everyone's a winner.

I hope that the people running it earn a pittance as well. In fact everyone should admit they are scum and be earning a pittance. A modern economic miracle!

 

[Audioboxer]

Still nothing on the BBC about the protests/riot in London?

I suppose the government decides what new is nowadays.

Unless it's "chaos" in Glasgow they don't care.

 

[Beefy]

How fucking stupid could you be defacing a war memorial on VE Day? Seriously I get the protest. But doing dumb shit like this is just gives the papers a easy thing to dismiss it.

 

[PJV3]

Interesting piece:

http://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-demt...y-voted-conservative-to-achieve-it-45857.html

It basically says that because they Lib Dems lost so many seats to the Tories, it seems unlikely that their major problem was that they were perceived as being Tory stooges. But I guess this depends on the area.

They're arguing about it in Libdem land.

The tories took advantage of the party losing the left (so to speak) and really hammered them.

Or the Orange opinion is that they shouldn't have distanced themselves from the government and its achievements.

I find the second version to be bonkers personally. We have seen this coming for years.

Just realised it's the thing I was reading as well.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Middle England won't be disgusted once they lose their child benefit

Get rid of it all. Maternity pay, child benefit.

Privatise NHS. Go full out conservatism.

Nevermimd the vunerables and disregard mental health services.

Let's let everyone feel the weight of their decision.

 

[tomtom94]

How fucking stupid could you be defacing a war memorial on VE Day? Seriously I get the protest. But doing dumb shit like this is just gives the papers a easy thing to dismiss it.

I'm going to assume that it was probably a "all publicity is good publicity" type.

 

[RedSparrows]

How fucking stupid could you be defacing a war memorial on VE Day? Seriously I get the protest. But doing dumb shit like this is just gives the papers a easy thing to dismiss it.

Precisely.

 

[Tak3n]

Middle England won't be disgusted once they lose their child benefit

Not sure if they go for it, I think it is far more likely it will be max 2 kids, they will know Middle England elected them, to piss them off would be stupid, and it shows as they are increasing the 40% tax bracket....

I think they will reduce in work benefits to 25k the down to 20k, then £18 in year 3

 

[kitch9]

Nothing wrong with monetising prisons. Get the inmates to to work for a pittance while they're in there. Everyone's a winner.

They already do if they want letting out of their cells.

£3.50 a day wages.

 

[PJV3]

Nothing wrong with monetising prisons. Get the inmates to to work for a pittance while they're in there. Everyone's a winner.

I dunno, it seems to be a fucking nightmare in the states, it's like being forced to work at sports direct but you don't go home ever.

It's become a nice earner with corruption and incentives to bang up anyone they can.

 

[Jackpot]

Right. You've got to type it into the search field or you won't see it.

How can I search for something I don't know is happening?

 

[Audioboxer]

Get rid of it all. Maternity pay, child benefit.

Privatise NHS. Go full out conservatism.

Nevermimd the vunerables and disregard mental health services.

Let's let everyone feel the weight of their decision.

Cuts to the mental health services are incredibly worrying to me.

 

[King_Moc]

I dunno, it seems to be a fucking nightmare in the states, it's like being forced to work at sports direct but you don't go home ever.

It's become a nice earner with corruption and incentives to bang up anyone they can.

Well, the states has gone too far with it. They basically look for reasons to arrest people as it's the only way their manufacturing industry can compete with India, China etc.

 

[PJV3]

Cuts to the mental health services are incredibly worrying to me.

It's one of those fields you can't even begin to imagine the pressure the system is under. My brief experience with it was scary, and the staff I trained with have my upmost respect.