It cannot. Only Westminster has the right to call a referendum. He can cock clock it for ever if he wishes.
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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
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It cannot. Only Westminster has the right to call a referendum. He can cock clock it for ever if he wishes.
I'm a neutral. I do not know enough about the cons and pros to have a real opinion. But I guess with the vote happening I want to at least understand it more. Rather then let the papers etc own agenda driven views.
Jezbollah
Member
I wonder how powerful UKIP are going to be in the near future with the Conservatives owning a majority (albeit small) - Cameron & Co look like they're already reaching out to the backbenchers and demographic in the party that disliked the coalition, and for those reasons found the lure of UKIP strong.
I can actually see a lot of UKIP coming "back" to the Conservatives over the next five years.
I can actually see a lot of UKIP coming "back" to the Conservatives over the next five years.
Even a referendum without Westminster approval would be very damaging to the Union and the Tories are desperate to avoid that.
Indyref 2 is just a threat to get what they want from the devolution negotiations anyway. Salmond is a useful idiot to give the threat some weight.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
The EU is generally a force for good but is often wasteful, occasionally corrupt and rather high handed
kinda like our national government but with more exotic names. If you want to see the cons of the EU just read private eye, they have a section dedicated to their missteps. EU trumpets its own horn loudly enougth for its successes like anti trust lawsuits against large multinationals, mobile roaming regulations etc.
They make me laugh... The lib dems were ignored and they were simply the protest party... If the snp thought 58 mps bought them a voice they were sadly misinformed.... There only chance died when labour dropped the ball
FlammableD
Banned
Hey, keep ignoring the Scots, that worked out so well for you this election
The Tories have always been prepared to offer more powers to Holyrood than Labour.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
looooool, knives out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32697212
Am I the only one who sees something incredibly sinister of david's remark that him and ed "remain brothers for life"
They're going to action the smith commision though?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32697212
Am I the only one who sees something incredibly sinister of david's remark that him and ed "remain brothers for life"
They're going to action the smith commision though?
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
"Better" here is in some vague sense that doesn't mean "more profitable". And profit matters. It matters to the economy as a whole and not just to the owners, because if businesses are more profitable there will be more businesses, and that means more jobs.
I'm not at all sure that is true. Not in your typical small business at least.
For example, I have a small business: those at the top (i.e. me and Mrs phisheep) work about 70 hours a week at far below the minimum wage, get no sick pay, no holiday. Why on earth should it help if an employee gets greater rights than we do? (For clarity, I'm not against worker rights, but the logic behind them does not necessarily stack up for small businesses).
Wrong. Business creates all of the money that goes to make all of the taxes that make all of the state possible. If you think that is destructive then it is no wonder there is a perception that Labour does not understand business.
That's a fair enough point. Business "leaders" are competitively interested in their own business mostly.
Yup. I'd agree with that.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
You mean like every other party? The tories with all their money and power lost a decade with un-electable weirdo's... One after the other until they settled with Cameron who has barely scraped a majority together after 5 years.
The Labour party chose milliband for fucks sake, and are now talking up Umuna who loses half a stone in body weight with every interview disaster.
It's been a massacre in british politics, and now the establishment is trying to spin it that the only party that actually wants its leader back is a bad thing?
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Did ed have integrity when he voted to abolish the 10p tax rate?
Mr. Luchador
Member
haha nice!
idk but no politician who moves high up in a major political party can be a paragon of integrity, or even close, all i'm saying is that within that limitation there's big differences between ed and david
Result day and the next day my FB feed was full of anti tory status updates, now it's full of people posting status, links etc to articles and basically shaming err...tory shaming and calling out lefties.
Neither side knows fuck all about what's actually happening or about the policies of the parties and how this election in particular is going to affect the country for the next decade (this last bit is what I think is the most important bit and it's also the most ignored bit among these people, atleast from my observation).
Neither side knows fuck all about what's actually happening or about the policies of the parties and how this election in particular is going to affect the country for the next decade (this last bit is what I think is the most important bit and it's also the most ignored bit among these people, atleast from my observation).
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
I'm running away to Scotland as soon as I can. Bring me the Independence Ref and I'll vote yes.
Wefare Queens exist so do arse hole businesses. In the middle is the majority of decent people trying to get on.
Not everyone who runs a business is loaded. Most aren't.
Maybe, but when Cameron goes to Europe "to get a better deal" and inevitably comes back with nothing their support will probably grow again.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Good for you! LDs are lovely people. I will be going to the Liverpool one. Now we can stick the boot in the Tories again (and the Tories are back to their distressingly illiberal ways) I can see a lot of fun campaigning on the horizon.
If there isn't a donation bucket or raffle I will be disappointed.
Old Liberal joke: two Liberals in a room is a general meeting. Three Liberals in a room is a raffle waiting to happen.
Old Liberal joke: two Liberals in a room is a general meeting. Three Liberals in a room is a raffle waiting to happen.
PJV3
Member
He's joining in the concerted Blairite push, it's pretty sad really.
They damaged the party too much because a lot of what they say is meaningless. They don't just say 'hey guys being left is a bit unpopular, let's row back for a while' they actually sneer at the reason the party exists. They make you publicly tear up clauses of the party, reduce the conference to an arse-licking session. Parachute knobheads like Tristram Hunt into constituencies and triangulate on issues like civil liberties.
They may be modern, but they're also unprincipled chancers.
Oh yeah. And kill thousands of people and lie to make it happen.
Roland_Gunner
Member
It worked great for the Tories. Killed Labor though.
Bull. I mean the technicality aside that money is made by the Bank of England and not business... The State itself, and organs within it are responsible for much of the output of our countries. Because that's what we care about, output. In fact that's one of the weird things about comparing economies that have and don't have things like national health; the one with a private health service gets an artificial boost to GDP by virtue of how that output is being accounted for.
Business is destructive. It takes the state and legislation to temper that into productivity.
The party you want is unelectable.
I wouldn't necessarily think so. The party that's being suggested doesn't even exist in politics.
Really good read
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32689770
Now I am not saying you should feel sorry for them, but I did not realise they make everyone redundant, I presumed their staff based in Westminster would work for the new incumbent
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32689770
Now I am not saying you should feel sorry for them, but I did not realise they make everyone redundant, I presumed their staff based in Westminster would work for the new incumbent
cjp
Junior Member
PJV3
Member
I know, but if the Blairites were more respecful of their own members then I would be more open to listening.
We moved heaven and earth in the party for him, he just shat on us in return. A lot of the people who voted to scrap clause 4 did it through gritted teeth.
I'm very left-wing but I live in the real world and know at the moment and for probably a long time it wouldn't be vote winning stuff.
CyclopsRock
Member
That's not limited to Blairites though (or Labour) - it's not like Ed was a good, solid Doncaster lad.
Then again, that party just won a 95% landslide in one of our countries.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Labour did not run the latest election on a left wing agenda!
Don't listen to the Blairites. It is complete fiction. If anything it is more right wing than New Labour.
Don't listen to the Blairites. It is complete fiction. If anything it is more right wing than New Labour.
PJV3
Member
And Tony Benn wasn't a coalminer.
Tristram is just a suit forced on the CLP.
My main problem with People slagging off Ed today is are they actually going to involve the party members or just talk about how half of them are wrong.
The Libdem's are a thousand times better in that regard.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Businesses create wealth, not money.
CyclopsRock
Member
It does seem like basically no one saw this coming and yet everyone knows the solutions.
Tbf though I definitely do know the solutions.
PJV3
Member
Oh well.
I definitely think the Labour party is screwed for at least a decade after today.
If the Blairites think all the people who support Labour are just going to blindly follow them again, then they are seriously deluded. Scotland is gone, it will be the north next.
This isn't a defence of Ed as he didn't exactly reach out either.
They are talking about their staff in their constituency.
Audioboxer
Member
Rape capital of the west, enjoy.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
If I were the Labour leadership, spinning off Scottish Labour as its own party would be my first priority.
There is a danger here of playing into the SNP's hands as giving independence to the Scottish part of the Labour party may be seen as an "endorsement" of some sort, but in all honesty it's the best course of action.
Scottish voters do not have the ability to decide governments, and Labour need to focus their message on winning over the ones that can win them an election - English voters. And we've all seen the political differences between Scottish and English voters right now.
That and Scottish Labour is a joke right now. An absolute joke. And while Jim Murphy still prances around pretending to be a "leader" you just cannot take them seriously at all. Why someone from Labour HQ in London hasn't told him to walk away right now is ludicrous.
As for Scottish Labour, they need to jettison everyone at the top, distance themselves from Jim Murphy, and restructure themselves into a modern socialist and progressive force with actual ideas instead of "we cannae afford independence". That and pray for a miracle, as there's a good chance that next year's Scottish Parliament election may see them beaten into third place behind the Tories.
Ed Balls, like any ex-politician, will find it easy enough to get a job as a consultant in the city, in the USA, or somewhere else. For guys like him, being a politician is a means to an end.
CyclopsRock
Member
There have been rumours circulating that one of the Coventry MPs may make his excuses and depart, making way for Balls to make a return. Aside from the fact that the local Labour party didn't seem too keen, there's not a much more significant a indictment of your political popularity than losing your seat whilst the Shadow Chancellor. The guy is about as popular as radioactive dog shit - given they will presumably try to paint their future as a break from the past, I can't imagine they'll even want him back.
anonymous_abc
Member
And people get all up in arms (wrongly!) thinking PR wouldn't let them elect locally and then this sort of stuff happens and I think what's the point? In a mixed member proportional system Ed would have been on number two of the party list and easily gotten into parliament without the need for such back room fiddling.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
As odious and unlikeable as he is I always got the impression that Balls cared. I see him trying to linger on though if he is allowed to is a different question. It is possible he will because his economic knowledge is widely respected, contrary to his media image.
I have yet to meet a member of the Labour Party who doesn't see his removal as one of the few positive hings from last week. The guy is *loathed* by his own party for being s bully, is viewed to have completely screwed his role as shadow chancellor, and is generally seen to be far better gone.
I really doubt that straight after an election someone else is going to step aside to let him back in. That makes a real mockery of elections full stop.
Did you watch it? it was amazing, it was almost like they were embarrassed to of won.. I always thought Labour liked the way he wound the tories up at PMQ's with his snide hand gestures
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