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[War Peaceman]

Why do the left minded get offended when people tar everyone with benefits with the same brush than think nothing of doing the same themselves.

The vast majority of employers in the UK are SMEs, hundreds of thousands will be people following a dream and willing to bet everything they have ever owned that they can make a success of themselves. As their employee base grows they not only have to worry about their livelihood but that of those under their employment too.

I'm an employer and loose sleep over this shit. Not so much anymore but there has been a time where work ran dry and I went without myself to make sure my lads got paid.

Firstly targeting the less well off is always considered less acceptable than targeting the better off. It is just basic understanding and empathy.

Secondly he is not making a value judgement on the people who run businesses except in regards to their business decisions. Which is wholly different to making value judgements on 'welfare queens' etc. It is about their function not their life. Not to mention it is a long term historical trend that businesses have opposed rises to minimum wage and workers rights (Not all businesses obviously) because it is hard to look past their own bottom line and see the wider picture. It is logical to feel that way and logical to criticise the small-mindedness that leads to such an opinion.

 

[Beefy]

Rather be on JSA then ESA. I was on ESA for many years due to mental illness and was on £5k a year. I was still treated like a money grabbing lazy bastard (not saying people on JSA are). Despite being unable to even leave the house in my early years of having mental health issues, I never actually passed a ATOS medical, I always had to appeal and always won. Once I was put on the ESA back to work scheme I was basically hounded until I got a job. I feel for people that don't have family/ friend support as they will be even more screwed now.

 

[War Peaceman]

Rather be on JSA then ESA. I was on ESA for many years due to mental illness and was on £5k a year. I was still treated like a money grabbing lazy bastard. Despite being unable to even leave the house in my early years of having mental health issues, I never actually passeda ATOS medical. I always had to appeal and always won. I feel for people that don't have family/ friend support as they will be even more screwed now.

It is a disgusting, bureaucratic nightmare.

What conservatives fail to appreciate is that the costs of welfare are preventative. If people are allowed to suffer and starve or work with debilitating illnesses then it can have a knock on effect on the NHS or other services.

As always nothing should be considered sacrosanct and not all cuts are bad. However if there is one area that absolutely does not need cutting it is the non-pensioner welfare budget. If anything we need to be spending more on mental health services (though perhaps via nhs). I'd actually quite like it if we had a dedicated mental health service, I think that would be very interesting and have - if done well - very strong benefits to the well-being of the nation. Which helps businesses and consumers and people in general.

 

[Beefy]

It is a disgusting, bureaucratic nightmare.

What conservatives fail to appreciate is that the costs of welfare are preventative. If people are allowed to suffer and starve or work with debilitating illnesses then it can have a knock on effect on the NHS or other services.

As always nothing should be considered sacrosanct and not all cuts are bad. However if there is one area that absolutely does not need cutting it is the non-pensioner welfare budget. If anything we need to be spending more on mental health services (though perhaps via nhs). I'd actually quite like it if we had a dedicated mental health service, I think that would be very interesting and have - if done well - very strong benefits to the well-being of the nation. Which helps businesses and consumers and people in general.

Sadly a lot of people with mental health issues are still seen as fine and making shit up. My doctor at the time even said as such. When going to him when my illness first hit he said "there is no such thing as depression/ anxiety it is only you not having a strong mind".

 

[PJV3]

Seems Alan Sugar is leaving the Labour party and going as an Independant in the house of lords :-



As a long time ZX Spectrum owner all I can say is "fuck off you odious cunt". Never liked Sugar and I never understood what the fuck that guy was doing in the Labour party.

I don't care either way where his loyalties lie.
But why the fucker thinks he should be in or stay in the Lords is beyond me.

I want that place scrapped so badly.

 

[JonathanEx]

Farage unresigns after the party tells him no.


Ahaha.

 

[Tak3n]

Once you get past (i think 6 months) your required to do 35 hours per week of job searching, and you need to keep a record of everything you do as with some advisors any discrepancy = a sanction. On top of this if your advisor feels the need to do so, you can be referred to a work program in which you do around 3 months work at 30 hours per week for the equivalent of around £2 an hour wage (you work 30 hours a week to earn your JSA) - they can also put you on a course to "help" with your prospects.

Personal experience here last year.

I attended the jobcentre for my weekly appointment and was sat downstairs waiting after putting my card in the box i always was told to put it in, turned out the advisor had moved upstairs and the box number hadn't moved with her - as such i was 10 minutes late to see her as i was sat downstairs waiting. It was only found out after the new person who had the desk came back from lunch, i got my 1st sanction for this even though i explained i was sat downstairs waiting just like i always did. I was told i should have asked where the advisor was (which i did, was told she was on lunch) or that i should have known i was now upstairs - i lost the appeal on this, despite showing that i had in fact arrived 15 minutes early.

After my sanction i was put on a course (similar to an A4e course), i was on this for 3 months and had to attend 1 day a week. On the last 2 weeks we had to come every day for 5 hours, unfortunalty for me on the last week i got food positioning and not wanting to risk anything I ACTULLY WENT AND ATTENDED and i was then sent home by the person in charge of the course that day (we informed my jobcentre and personal advisor of this, i was sent a sick form, filled it in and sent it off and confirmed it was received on my next sign on day) - 1 month later i got a sanction letter from the main office dealing with sanctions: the reason being failing to do that day and going home, i lost my benefits for over a month whilst i had to prove i was actually told it was OK to go home.

Its a bloody minefield now and they try to catch you with everything, they try to say there isn't targets - but there is.

Blimey, it has changed, I was on it briefly about 20 years ago, and there was not really any jobs, the advisors signed me on, then told me to go home and come in once a fortnight for 10 mins......

Sounds like they make it a living nightmare so people are desperate to get off it

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Oh god

 

[PJV3]

Farage unresigns after the party tells him no.


Ahaha.

With a referendum coming did anyone believe he would go away.

 

[twobear]

Farage unresigns after the party tells him no.


Ahaha.

lmao, what a clown

 

[Tak3n]

Farage unresigns after the party tells him no.


Ahaha.

To be fair, and I appreciate he is universally unpopular on here.... A. He should never of said he would....B. The Tories threw everything at that seat to win, spent fortunes, so why should he let them get away with it... C. They had a brilliant election getting some 4 million votes, now is not the time to get rid of the guy who got you those votes....

For balance, Cameron said if he did not get immigration down to the 10''s of thousands he should be sacked, and where is he!

 

[PJV3]

Blimey, it has changed, I was on it briefly about 20 years ago, and there was not really any jobs, the advisors signed me on, then told me to go home and come in once a fortnight for 10 mins......

Sounds like they make it a living nightmare so people are desperate to get off it

When I quit my nursing course I went to the job centre to sign on. They made me feel like a piece of shit. Didn't go back.

 

[Slowdive]

Farage unresigns after the party tells him no.


Ahaha.

Hahaha.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

How can you fail at resigning?

 

[Atrophis]

What a fucking cretin.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Farage unresigns after the party tells him no.


Ahaha.

This just confirms the party is Farage and would likely crumble without him. They don't have a single person in the party who could be as influential and hold their own in interviews as well as he does most of the time...

 

[Hasney]

Why should he be trusted on being harsh on immigration if he can't even kick himself out?

 

[Scum]

Farage, pls.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Why should he be trusted on being harsh on immigration if he can't even kick himself out?

In normal circumstances, he'd be mocked constantly and be made into a running joke, but his failure to win a seat in a very carefully chosen seat and then failure to follow through with his promise to resign will quickly be forgotten and wiped from history as his rhetoric about Europe is pushed harder and harder by most right leaning outlets and he become more venomous the closer an EU referendum gets.

 

[Tak3n]

This just confirms the party is Farage and would likely crumble without him. They don't have a single person in the party who could be as influential and hold their own in interviews as well as he does most of the time...

Agreed, but he is fucking good at his job, he is like a wasp that won't go away, let's be honest the Tories would not be having a referendum on the EU if it was not for him annoying the fuck out of them

 

[PJV3]

In normal circumstances, he'd be mocked constantly and be made into a running joke, but his failure to win a seat in a very carefully chosen seat and then failure to follow through with his promise to resign will quickly be forgotten and wiped from history as his rhetoric about Europe is pushed harder and harder by most right leaning outlets and he become more venomous the closer an EU referendum gets.

I imagine now the election is over that the press will go back to loving him again.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Why should he be trusted on being harsh on immigration if he can't even kick himself out?

Haha, I'm stealing that one

 

[War Peaceman]

How can you fail at resigning?

Well he's failed to be elected to Westminster seven times so failure must be quite natural to him

Why should he be trusted on being harsh on immigration if he can't even kick himself out?

hahaha that's great

 

[Slowdive]

Didn't sound like he was planning on leaving properly anyway: https://youtu.be/-qp3UZ3Ny7s

 

[D4Danger]

I expected him to resign and then win the leadership again anyway. UKIP need him.

 

[PJV3]

All Farage cares about besides himself is the referendum, he wins that and he will be waving his bollocks in your faces.

 

[Carl2291]

Yeah, as soon as he said he would consider running for leader again it was obvious that after his "holiday", Nigel would be back.

There should be no real surprise other than it being sooner than expected.

 

[Varion]

Didn't sound like he was planning on leaving properly anyway: https://youtu.be/-qp3UZ3Ny7s

Ahaha.

Well, I hope he enjoyed his very, very short summer.

 

[Beefy]

Talking about the EU. Has any one got any articles on the pros and cons of being in it? I have never really looked into it in detail.

 

[Tak3n]

Talking about the EU. Has any one got any articles on the pros and cons of being in it? I have never really looked into it in detail.

Finding unbiased ones are the problem.... Try ukip's site, I expect theirs will be fair


I jest obviously, in all seriousness my town made the national news as a reporter said you struggled to hear a English voice in the town, but according to data Norfolk only has a 6% immigrants, so if that number is true they must all live in my town

 

[PJV3]

Talking about the EU. Has any one got any articles on the pros and cons of being in it? I have never really looked into it in detail.

What kind of angle are you coming from, the pros and cons shift depending on what your political and economic views are.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Agreed, but he is fucking good at his job, he is like a wasp that won't go away, let's be honest the Tories would not be having a referendum on the EU if it was not for him annoying the fuck out of them

That's key. Like him or hate him, he is charismatic and is a pretty decent orator too. It's hard to find that combination sometimes.

I imagine now the election is over that the press will go back to loving him again.

Yup, there's no reason not to.

 

[anonymous_abc]

The only silver lining on the 8th and we are let down....

Talking about the EU. Has any one got any articles on the pros and cons of being in it? I have never really looked into it in detail.

What has the European Parliament ever done for us?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25963806
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFyywfHbj3M

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

lol, dude's unflushable

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

What has the European Parliament ever done for us?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25963806

weird to see fisheries and agriculture there since the eu screwed those up to begin with.

has there been any movement on getting rid of strasburg recently?

--edit, whoops, thought I was editing, sorry for dp

 

[PJV3]

The only silver lining on the 8th and we are let down....

He's literally everything I oppose, but I want him here for the referendum.

I want the boil finally dealt with. I want mountains of puss, pain, hate and anger. Then people can shut the fuck up about it.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

the times already had a poll showing more for then against (though don't knows would swing it either way), and they're a murdoch rag.

Some good campaigning from people like cameron, clarke, a johnson, charlie kennedy etc should see it sail through. I think farage is the only vaguely popular political figure who is anti eu?

 

[PJV3]

the times already had a poll showing more for then against (though don't knows would swing it either way), and they're a murdoch rag.

Some good campaigning from people like cameron, clarke, a johnson, charlie kennedy etc should see it sail through.

I want the out campaign to throw the kitchen sink at it.

 

[mr-paul]

What a joke. Always knew they wouldn't get rid of him. Even if he had the summer off like he said he would, he was always going to come back and be leader in the Autumn.

They know that without his image and media persona, UKIP's popularity will fade.

I wonder if he will remember though that he actually has another job though, as an MEP?? He's neglected that position a lot in the last year!

 

[Mr Git]

lol, dude's unflushable

The Dark Shite Rises.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

He's literally everything I oppose, but I want him here for the referendum.

I want the boil finally dealt with. I want mountains of puss, pain, hate and anger. Then people can shut the fuck up about it.

I feel the same way. It wouldn't be an EU referendum without Farage, it'd be like an invasion out of the Daleks without Daleks.

 

[War Peaceman]

What a joke. Always knew they wouldn't get rid of him. Even if he had the summer off like he said he would, he was always going to come back and be leader in the Autumn.

They know that without his image and media persona, UKIP's popularity will fade.

I wonder if he will remember though that he actually has another job though, as an MEP?? He's neglected that position a lot in the last year!

Ukip meps are notorious for their lack of EU parliamentary attendance and expenses creativity. They basically function like Sinn Fein but without the principles.

 

[Mr. Sam]

lol, dude's unflushable

I like this. I'm going to use this.

 

[Wrestlemania]

we know max benefit amount will go to £23000 (fair IMO)

How do you actually determine what is "fair" though? Is it fair if there's someone out there genuinely needs, say, £30k in benefits but is being denied it because of some arbitrary limit designed to cut off the perceived scroungers?

 

[MrChom]

How do you actually determine what is "fair" though? Is it fair if there's someone out there genuinely needs, say, £30k in benefits but is being denied it because of some arbitrary limit designed to cut off the perceived scroungers?

The problem is it's always going to be the better headline to put a hard cap on things than say "Obviously we need a case by case assessment to look at abuses, and treat them based on the facts of the case" which is what should happen.

 

[pulsemyne]

So Cameron confirmed there will be no scottish referendum in the future. To anyone on here from the SNP, I hate to say I told you so but...

 

[Saiyar]

Farage stays and UKIP will now set themselves up as the party of Electoral reform. They are not going away any time soon.

So Cameron confirmed there will be no scottish referendum in the future. To anyone on here from the SNP, I hate to say I told you so but...

Do you honestly think the SNP give a shit about what Cameron says? If they get a majority in 2016 on the promise of another indyref it will happen.

 

[Wrestlemania]

The problem is it's always going to be the better headline to put a hard cap on things than say "Obviously we need a case by case assessment to look at abuses, and treat them based on the facts of the case" which is what should happen.

Oh, for sure. It's an easy play to the people who assume that the vast majority on benefits are completely undeserving.

 

[Empty]

farage is really divisive and overly incendiary. i don't think it's a slam dunk that ukip will fade without him, honestly think he limits them too. another leader without his baggage could take them further and starting really fucking a center reclaiming labour party in the north. i do think the anti-politics stuff and attacks on the idea of free movement of labour is more powerful than the cult of personality.

snp are only getting another referendum in the specific case of uk voting to leave eu and scotland (as a percentage) voting to stay in. which i don't think will happen.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

So Cameron confirmed there will be no scottish referendum in the future. To anyone on here from the SNP, I hate to say I told you so but...

I think anyone with an ounce of common sense would make the prediction that there would be no Scottish referendum any time soon. I really don't know why the SNP think they are some "wave" in westminster, the Tories could/will spend the next 5 years ignoring Alex Salmond pouting in the corner.

Do you honestly think the SNP give a shit about what Cameron says? If they get a majority in 2016 on the promise of another indyref it will happen.

Without approval from Westminster any referendum the Scottish choose to do has about as much weight as an opinion poll held by the lads mag "Nuts". I also think the SNP are a bit shy about doing another referendum as well (either officially or unofficially). If they hold a second referendum and it comes back no then they are well and truly stuffed.

I personally believe unless something major happens (the UK leaving Europe) you will not see another major push for a Scottish referendum till about 2030.