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[Miles Quaritch]

Details.

What depresses me is that people don't even realise that their benefits will be the ones on the chopping block. They likely see themselves as those who get on, not realising the hammer is about to drop on their tax credits, their child benefit, on the maternity leave they have likely factored into any plans to have kids and so on.

It was excellent electioneering from the Tories. Got to give then credit.

It was and it will likely frame how elections are fought in the UK for some time to come.

So expect lots more of lying, lots more personal attacks, lots more demonization of certain groups, lots more misdirection, lots more broken promises...

Yay!!!

Ed should have tackled it head on instead of making the SNP sound like extremists, he ended up reinforcing the scare factor.

Hindsight I suppose.

Yeah, looking back, it really does feel like he played right into their hands by not attacking the idea of an SNP coalition and why it would to the benefit of the UK as a whole. The mistrust surrounding Scotland really is ridiculous...

 

[electroshockwave]

Details.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/cameron-repeating-housing-benefit-myth
How about this for example? Only one in eight on housing benefit is unemployed.

 

[suedester]

For taking control of a country by lying to the electorate? Yeah, well done lads.

It was and it will likely frame how elections are fought in the UK for some time to come.

So expect lots more of lying, lots more personal attacks, lots more demonization of certain groups, lots more misdirection, lots more broken promises...

Yay!!!



Yeah, looking back, it really does feel like he played right into their hands by not attacking the idea of an SNP coalition and why it would to the benefit of the UK as a whole. The mistrust surrounding Scotland really is ridiculous...

Was framing the election around concerns of Labours reliance on the SNP really lying? Guess we will never know. It was clearly a legitimate concern of the electorate.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Worth noting that both business owners and workers are absolutely required elements of any successful economy, though. The "workers" might create the product (though in small businesses - like, by the sounds of it Phisheeps - the owners can also be "workers" in that sense) but there's a huge, enormous amount of risk that needs to be taken by the owners. Most people massively prefer the predictability and ability to plan afforded to them by a routine pay packet, and this is something that people who start businesses have to forgo. At the risk of sounding like some Atlas Shrugged madman, I can't emphasise enough how much respect I have for people willing to give up that familiarity and security to start their own business - and it's only by doing this can jobs actually be created. So yeah, the work gets done by the employees but the spoils go to those willing to take the risks, because they need to be willing to do it.

Incidentally, this all works - for both the employers and employees - not because of some mutual sense of community or due to love of ze mozerland, but rather out of mutual self interest. Ain't it beautiful?

 

[PJV3]

Worth noting that both business owners and workers are absolutely required elements of any successful economy, though. The "workers" might create the product (though in small businesses - like, by the sounds of it Phisheeps - the owners can also be "workers" in that sense) but there's a huge, enormous amount of risk that needs to be taken by the owners. Most people massively prefer the predictability and ability to plan afforded to them by a routine pay packet, and this is something that people who start businesses have to forgo. At the risk of sounding like some Atlas Shrugged madman, I can't emphasise enough how much respect I have for people willing to give up that familiarity and security to start their own business - and it's only by doing this can jobs actually be created. So yeah, the work gets done by the employees but the spoils go to those willing to take the risks, because they need to be willing to do it.

Incidentally, this all works - for both the employers and employees - not because of some mutual sense of community or due to love of ze mozerland, but rather out of mutual self interest. Ain't it beautiful?

As long as they realise the workers are also the their customers by and large.

If the state is having to top up wages and pay their rent then it wouldn't take much cutting to make working not worth it.

 

[tomtom94]

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/cameron-repeating-housing-benefit-myth
How about this for example? Only one in eight on housing benefit is unemployed.

I should have made it more obvious I was being sarcastic, not actually asking for details.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Apparently Cameron has put the kibosh on plans to get rid of bercow due to all the furore with his marriage.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Was framing the election around concerns of Labours reliance on the SNP really lying? Guess we will never know. It was clearly a legitimate concern of the electorate.

Why does it matter if Labour relied on them? They are part of the UK, it's not liked they'd actively seek to destroy or in any way harm the country.

 

[suedester]

Why does it matter if Labour relied on them? They are part of the UK, it's not liked they'd actively seek to destroy or in any way harm the country.

One of their main goals is to leave the UK. Destroying the country is exactly what they would try to use as leverage.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Labour would have to stuff their mouths with gold to govern (just as the DUP were hilariously suggesting would need to happen for the tories to get their votes early in the night on thursday). It was more of a exaggeration of the barnet formula whining that goes on already.

Destroying the country is bit hyperbole

 

[FlammableD]

One of their main goals is to leave the UK. Destroying the country is exactly what they would try to use as leverage.

Leaving the UK != wanting to destroy the rest of it.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The thinking was that labour would have to stuff their mouths with gold to govern (just as the DUP were hilariously suggesting would need to happen for the tories to get their votes early in the night on thursday). It was more of a exagerration of the barnet formula whining that goes on already

That was hilarious. Literally "give us a billion quid".

 

[suedester]

Leaving the UK != wanting to destroy the rest of it.

I don't think they particularly care about the rest of it.

 

[Hasney]

Chuka is standing for Labour leadership. Things aren't looking good.

 

[War Peaceman]

These Blairite cunts look so desperate

 

[Par Score]

Your regular reminder that Chuka Umunna will probably be the next Labour leader, flanked by his Blue Labour pals, and that the next election will be fought from somewhere to the right of Blair.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Chuka is standing for Labour leadership. Things aren't looking good.

If labour get chuka they're out of government for at least ten years

 

[CyclopsRock]

Why does it matter if Labour relied on them? They are part of the UK, it's not liked they'd actively seek to destroy or in any way harm the country.

Danny Finkelstein summed it up like this in The Times (this was before the election, natch)

You simply cannot spend a quarter of a century arguing that Scotland has a claim of right to determine its own affairs, questioning the legitimacy of a majority that originates in England, crafting institutions to accompany this rhetoric and then say that the very same arguments are unreasonable when someone gently asks questions about English laws.

The SNP changes the nature of the problem of English laws. While Labour dominated Scotland, it is true that its Scottish MPs might have created laws in England that didn’t apply in Scotland, didn’t apply in their own constituency. And this would have been a matter of concern.

Yet at least these Labour MPs were unionists who cared about England as part of their country. The position with the SNP would be entirely different. They would be relied upon to sustain and support policies in a country they don’t want to be attached to, and in whose outcomes they have no interest. English education law is foreign policy to the SNP.

It will exercise this power in the service of an leftist ideology that England has often rejected and doubtless will reject again.

Is it really wrong to raise this? To point out that we could be days away from it? To ask people to think what it would be like, and to try and avoid it? I can’t think that it is.

Is it a scare story? Well, it certainly sounds pretty scary to me.

 

[FlammableD]

I don't think they particularly care about the rest of it.

Which isn't in their remit, and not caring doesn't equate to ruining it. They specifically want nothing to do with it.

 

[PrivateRyan]

The orange book group is finished, so half the battle is won already.

I hope so. Which is also why I hope Tim Farron is the next Lib leader and not Norman Lamb

*crosses fingers*

*crosses toes*

 

[Hasney]

If labour get chuka they're out of government for at least ten years

Yup. I think Liz Kendall would be better, not that I think she would win in 5 years, but I do believe you're right that Chuka could set them back further than they are now.

 

[Audioboxer]

I don't think they particularly care about the rest of it.

Progressive politics, protecting the NHS and ending austerity benefits the whole of the UK.

People in England cannot vote for the SNP, its up to whoever the English people vote for to lead the charge for a fair and progressive England. The SNP can only do so much outside of Scotland.

 

[Par Score]

Danny Finkelstein summed it up like this in The Times (this was before the election, natch)

If the UK is to exist, then it has to be recognised that the SNP MPs are representatives of UK constituencies, legitimately elected by citizens of the UK.

Acting as if they are pariahs to be shunned and ignored will do wonders for the strength of the Union.

 

[Kathian]

Chucka was and is a big issue for getting votes across he country l. You can't just stand on a right wing platform and expect to win, fact is he was one of the people around Miliband who did jot go out campaigning across the country.

 

[Tak3n]

Nigel Farage

Labour need to get Dan Jarvis, as he would do UKIP and the Tories immense damage, the current candidates for Labour are the same old, and UKIP and the Tories have nothing to fear

 

[Miles Quaritch]

One of their main goals is to leave the UK. Destroying the country is exactly what they would try to use as leverage.

I don't know if destroying the country is accurate. Like, at all...

Danny Finkelstein summed it up like this in The Times (this was before the election, natch)

I mean, there are some interesting points, but I really do think some of the points are exaggerated. There's no reason to believe that Scotland wouldn't take an active interest in the UK if they felt they had a part in the running of it.

 

[PJV3]

If the UK is to exist, then it has to be recognised that the SNP MPs are representatives of UK constituencies, legitimately elected by citizens of the UK.

Acting as if they are pariahs to be shunned and ignored will do wonders for the strength of the Union.

Labour wouldn't have let the SNP get their wicked way, because Labour would have been essentially an English party like the Tories.

There would have been a moderate deal at the most, the whole scare thing was ridiculous.and over the top.

 

[Tak3n]

Big, Big changes to the Strike rules...NOTE the use of Agency staff will be allowed (that will stop any schools being shut instantly

Business Secretary Sajid Javid

The government, he said, would also press ahead with changes to the rules on trade union strike ballots, so industrial action in essential public services would only be lawful if 40% of employees entitled to take part in a ballot actually voted.

"We have not hidden away from the changes we want to make," he told BBC Radio 4's Today, adding that he also wanted to lift the ban on agency staff being used during walkouts. "I think it is essential we make these changes."

 

[anonymous_abc]

Big, Big changes to the Strike rules...NOTE the use of Agency staff will be allowed (that will stop any schools being shut instantly

Business Secretary Sajid Javid

That will make strikes all but impossible and then all but painless and thusly useless... well done...

 

[PJV3]

Big, Big changes to the Strike rules...NOTE the use of Agency staff will be allowed (that will stop any schools being shut instantly

The government, he said, would also press ahead with changes to the rules on trade union strike ballots, so industrial action in essential public services would only be lawful if 40% of employees entitled to take part in a ballot actually voted.

"We have not hidden away from the changes we want to make," he told BBC Radio 4's Today, adding that he also wanted to lift the ban on agency staff being used during walkouts. "I think it is essential we make these changes."[/
QUOTE]

The ballot stuff is simply wrong, even if you don't like unions you cant insert rules in one area of a vote because it suits you. Make voting mandatory if you want legitimacy.

 

[KingSnake]

Making outside groups part of the decision making within a society is the best way to make them feeling integrated and less likely to isolate themselves.

SNP being part of a government is actually sabotaging the main reason of fighting for independence as they would have had important contribution in making Scotland voice being active part of the UK choir. Saying that Scottish MPs shouldn't have a say in UK's policies is exactly fueling the ideas of separate countries being better than a union.

 

[Tak3n]

lol

RMT just announced a strike by signal men....oh the irony

 

[Hasney]

They should obviously strike over strike reforms.

 

[suedester]

Which isn't in their remit, and not caring doesn't equate to ruining it. They specifically want nothing to do with it.

Indeed, they don't want anything to do with it, which is why a lot of undecided voters went Tory on Thursday.

 

[Goodlife]

What % of the popular vote did the Tories get?

What about the % when all those eligible to vote are added?

 

[anonymous_abc]

lol

RMT just announced a strike by signal men....oh the irony

I would hope it's just the first of many strikes, what else are they supposed to do they are about to loose any influence they might possibly ever have on such matters.

 

[King_Moc]

What % of the popular vote did the Tories get?

What about the % when all those eligible to vote are added?

36% of the vote, 25% of those eligible.

 

[tomtom94]

36% of the vote, 25% of those eligible.

This is a slightly unfair comparison since the question over strikes is not whether 40% vote in favour but whether 40% vote at all, unless I'm reading it wrong? Turnout at the GE was well over that threshold.

However, when you put it like that... you have to laugh.

 

[PJV3]

We have had 5 years of austerity, the unions haven't tried to bring the country down.

It's a vindictive law, and it isn't even needed. The war on unions was won by Thatcher.

 

[King_Moc]

We have had 5 years of austerity, the unions haven't tried to bring the country down.

It's a vindictive law, and it isn't even needed. The war on unions was won by Thatcher.

Their reasoning is most likely to do with what comes after the new law. They might be planning something that would cause a revolt. It wouldn't surprise me, anyway.

 

[anonymous_abc]

This is a slightly unfair comparison since the question over strikes is not whether 40% vote in favour but whether 40% vote at all, unless I'm reading it wrong? Turnout at the GE was well over that threshold.

However, when you put it like that... you have to laugh.

Having a quorum of 40% is pretty much neutering the unions for good. Things would have to be exceedingly desperate for that sort of turnout.

 

[FlammableD]

Indeed, they don't want anything to do with it, which is why a lot of undecided voters went Tory on Thursday.

Well no, they were told Alex Salmond was going to ride down to Westminster in Braveheart paint, and get Nicola Sturgeon to empty the pockets of every person in the country.

 

[Hasney]

We have had 5 years of austerity, the unions haven't tried to bring the country down.

It's a vindictive law, and it isn't even needed. The war on unions was won by Thatcher.

Yup. I think the union leaders of the major unions have made themselves look worse than the politicians in the past 10 years so I have no love for them. This is ridiculous though.

They probably do need reform, but the strike laws certainly don't and they really don't the way they're doing it.

 

[CyclopsRock]

If the UK is to exist, then it has to be recognised that the SNP MPs are representatives of UK constituencies, legitimately elected by citizens of the UK.

Acting as if they are pariahs to be shunned and ignored will do wonders for the strength of the Union.

Well I imagine they'll be shunned rather as much as any other set of MPs that aren't in the majority party, given their power is limited. But this was about whether the "fear" of them uniting with Labour was a legitimate concern (or, rather, reason to be concerned, since clearly it was a possibility if only in an unofficial way) and I think it's a perfectly well reasoned argument.

Edit: I also don't see any point in the union law. They're practically powerless as it is, who cares?

 

[Thornton Reed]

Chuka is standing for Labour leadership. Things aren't looking good.

I think this country is more racist than you think i don't think we would vote in a Mix raced PM.

Chuka is a blairite through and through. I think he has a strong chance of getting the leadership as Labour try and retake the centre ground

 

[Walshicus]

One of their main goals is to leave the UK. Destroying the country is exactly what they would try to use as leverage.

What country? I've not seen the SNP looking to destroy England, and they don't want to destroy Scotland...

I mean they want to remove their country from the state that is the UK but they've never expressed any desire or pushed any legislation to harm England.

 

[War Peaceman]

There is another big problem with Chuka. He'd be strong in the areas Labour improved on in 2015 - areas with the demographic composition of London.

 

[suedester]

What country? I've not seen the SNP looking to destroy England, and they don't want to destroy Scotland...

I mean they want to remove their country from the state that is the UK but they've never expressed any desire or pushed any legislation to harm England.

The UK is a country, at least according to Wikipedia. Be pedantic (and wrong) if it makes you feel superior though.

Scotland leaving the UK would arguably harm the remaining countries within the union.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

Acting as if they are pariahs to be shunned and ignored will do wonders for the strength of the Union.

At the end of the day, Scots will be more concerned with being able to pay their mortgage than voting to leave the UK because of a perceived shunning of the SNP.

Doesn't matter how many referendums are called, the economic case does not add up for an independent Scotland, at least not the kind of socialist Scotland they proclaim to want.

As this election proved, the economy is all that really matters.

 

[Polari]

Whoever wins is going to be crushed by the big Boris juggernaut next election. At age 36, Umunna would be better off sitting this round out.