Support NeoGAF

[King_Moc]

Good article here from Mark Thomas a few years back which hopefully clears up exactly who is considered an extremist in the eyes of government.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/oct/25/doth-i-protest-too-much

Also, Labour have added a fairly ridiculous 29,000 new members since election day. Should put them on around 230,000 members total.

 

[Jezbollah]

Nice work if you can get it.

I remember us taking about this about six months ago on the Poligaf thread

 

[operon]

What about a house of lords elected with one member per county elected, something akin to senators in the US

 

[Hasney]

Lord Hasney has a nice ring to it if any of you have any sway.

 

[Maledict]

What about a house of lords elected with one member per county elected, something akin to senators in the US

One of the main reasons the USA sentae doesn't function is because that system - each state having he saevel of representation despite the number of people living in it. It's honestly one of the worse aspects of american government, and the last thing we should bring over here I think.

I'm ambivalent on the lords myself. Its one of those things where everyone thins it needs changing but no-one has an ideal answer. Personally after what happened with gay marriage I'm less driven to immediately up-end it and replace it with something else - I really didn't expect the Lords to vote that way, and was (grudgingly) impressed by how it went down compared to where the Lords was 15 years ago on gay rights.

 

[Spaghetti]

Anything to back this up?

anecdotally, i've seen racism ranging from casual to overt from people even in my generation (20s/mid-20s), from facebook posts ranting about cbeebies teaching kids urdu words, to just really disliking ethnic minorities and using slurs

race relations aren't as bad as they are in the US but the shadow of 70s/80s racism looms large. i mean, the BNP and EDL are still a thing, along with other derivatives of the national front

 

[operon]

One of the main reasons the USA sentae doesn't function is because that system - each state having he saevel of representation despite the number of people living in it. It's honestly one of the worse aspects of american government, and the last thing we should bring over here I think.

I'm ambivalent on the lords myself. Its one of those things where everyone thins it needs changing but no-one has an ideal answer. Personally after what happened with gay marriage I'm less driven to immediately up-end it and replace it with something else - I really didn't expect the Lords to vote that way, and was (grudgingly) impressed by how it went down compared to where the Lords was 15 years ago on gay rights.

That's the problem with changing it what do you replace it with. The Republic of Ireland had a referendum about abolishing their second house which was defeated which is even more of a talking shop then the house of the lords. There the Taoiseach (prime minister) appoints 11 out the 60 senators which pretty much means the government gets no opposition there either

 

[Acorn]

Well, some of them die.

My big problem with Lords reform is I am vehemently opposed to it becoming elected - that would just turn it into a second branch of the Commons. If plans for a federal UK come in, that'd be even worse. What I do think is it should be free of party politics. I like the idea of a "council of experts", myself.

This.

Lords have counteracted reactionary executives numerous times. Ideally I'd say yes elect em but like you said then it's just party political bullshit again and they'd presumably have to get rid of the Salisbury rule re:manifesto pledges since they are now elected now too.

US style gridlock.

Edit Also being a geek I've watched lords debates before on bbc parl and the majority speak intelligently and seem more independent than most mps.

 

[Walshicus]

What about a house of lords elected with one member per county elected, something akin to senators in the US

There's too big a disparity. Some counties are in the millions of people, others like Rutland are tiny in the tens of thousands.

Better to use a PR based system at the English region level, and have one Lord/Senator per million people (rounded).

South West: 5
South East: 9
West Midlands: 6
East Midlands: 5
North West: 7
North East: 3
London: 8
Yorkshire: 5
East: 6

Total of 54 for England.

 

[mclem]

Lord Hasney has a nice ring to it if any of you have any sway.

Nah, be Scottish. Then you can campaign as "Westminster might have debts to foreign media conglomerates, but this laird has nae!"

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Reading the new issue of Private Eye at lunch, apparently almost all of John Bercow's core supporters are now gone. It suggested he'd have to cozy up to the new SNP intake.

Not sure if that article was written before or after the stuff with his wife properly broke though, but it suggests even if he continues he'll be in a much weaker position.

 

[Humidex]

Bit scary, that.

1984 waves hi!

 

[Walshicus]

I just don't want to read anything about Bercow's marriage. Concerns me not a bit.

 

[CyclopsRock]

One in one out; if one dies/retires, pick six Lords at random (to counteract personal biases) and they get to decide who joins in their place. Take a lesson from the Athenians.

No way any party is ever going to vote this in, of course.

Not modern enough. The Lord in question should only find out based on what colour the smoke pouring out of a chimney is.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I just don't want to read anything about Bercow's marriage. Concerns me not a bit.

I agree, it just effects whether he stays in or out - had it not occured the tories would have ejected him, as things stand they've decided not to but he may go himself. If he hangs on he will be in a much weaker position unless he heavily lobbies the new intake.

 

[Hasney]

I didn't realise Sky had all of Rik Mayall's New Statesman up. They could just run this right now and it would still apply.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

yup, just like yes minister

 

[anonymous_abc]

yup, just like yes minister

Yes Minister will always be up to date and relevant it's quite uncanny really.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

anecdotally, i've seen racism ranging from casual to overt from people even in my generation (20s/mid-20s), from facebook posts ranting about cbeebies teaching kids urdu words, to just really disliking ethnic minorities and using slurs

race relations aren't as bad as they are in the US but the shadow of 70s/80s racism looms large. i mean, the BNP and EDL are still a thing, along with other derivatives of the national front

Do they have a level of support commensurate with the population of "a very racist country"?

 

[PJV3]

Cameron is trying to bring in a blanket ban about revealing royal correspondence.

Prepare yourself for the shock that the royals might be broadly conservative later today.


Actually I messed that up.
He wants to strengthen ministerial veto for all foi requests.

What's wrong with the cunt?

 

[Tak3n]

anecdotally, i've seen racism ranging from casual to overt from people even in my generation (20s/mid-20s), from facebook posts ranting about cbeebies teaching kids urdu words, to just really disliking ethnic minorities and using slurs

race relations aren't as bad as they are in the US but the shadow of 70s/80s racism looms large. i mean, the BNP and EDL are still a thing, along with other derivatives of the national front

nothing I expect to the disgusting posts I saw on the usually left wing mums net when the presenter with the disabled arm was employed

it was down right disgraceful

 

[FlammableD]

usually left wing mums net

 

[twobear]

race relations aren't as bad as they are in the US

Aren't they? I've heard from several people from different ethnic backgrounds that they preferred living in the US to living in the UK because of racism.

It's difficult to compare because the two countries' history with racism is very different.

 

[Slowdive]

@SkyNewsBreak 1m
Kent Police looking into allegation of electoral fraud in #ThanetSouth seat which UKIP leader Nigel Farage failed to win at General Election

.

 

[PJV3]

.

Interesting.
Didn't UKIP take thanet council?
Still I mustn't make assumptions.

 

[Tak3n]

.

ummm, I personally think the only fraud is the blatant unfairness in how much money thr parties can use, they should all be the same.....

it has been well reported that the Tories used execution style tactics on Lib Dems seats and Ukip targets, and chucked so much money at them

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Interesting.
Didn't UKIP take thanet council?
Still I mustn't make assumptions.

They also reported HIGNFY to the kent police a while back didn't they?

lol

 

[Tuffty]

Aren't they? I've heard from several people from different ethnic backgrounds that they preferred living in the US to living in the UK because of racism.

It's difficult to compare because the two countries' history with racism is very different.

Certain areas of Belfast are pretty bad for that lately. Rising cases of violence or vandalism towards East European, Asian and Black families just on account of their race or nationality. Considering my girlfriend is Filipino, I'm certainly not thinking of living in Belfast with her anytime soon. Seems to be the work of paramilitaries who have always been shitehawks I suppose.

 

[tomtom94]

.

I mean if it's true that's terrible and whoever did it should be ashamed, puts a whole new spin on the whole #ThanetRigged thing. However, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[PJV3]

They also reported HIGNFY to the kent police a while back didn't they?

lol

I didn't realise they reported it, it's probably nothing then. I would expect UKIP to have been quicker going down this route, perhaps Galloway inspired them.

 

[Spaghetti]

Do they have a level of support commensurate with the population of "a very racist country"?

individually probably not, but there are a tremendous amount of racist splinter groups and not all of them cross over

if you want to get into wider reaching racism i assume we could look at the casual racism that dominates some of the anti-immigrant sentiment that's become so prevalent. or the institutional racism from police practices like racial profiling.

 

[Spaghetti]

Aren't they? I've heard from several people from different ethnic backgrounds that they preferred living in the US to living in the UK because of racism.

It's difficult to compare because the two countries' history with racism is very different.

well who's to say really

by the virtue of our usual police not being armed, i think we've got the upper hand on race relations simply because minorities aren't getting shot left and right indiscriminately

 

[twobear]

well who's to say really

by the virtue of our usual police not being armed, i think we've got the upper hand on race relations simply because minorities aren't getting shot left and right indiscriminately

they're not getting shot left and right indiscriminately, but they're still getting shot

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I didn't realise they reported it, it's probably nothing then. I would expect UKIP to have been quicker going down this route, perhaps Galloway inspired them.

Sorry, that was my assumption from the fact that tweet specifically said "seat"

The actual article is a bit more oblique:

http://news.sky.com/story/1483302/police-investigate-thanet-south-fraud-claims

If they're investigating the council results as opposed to the parlimentary results that'd be very interesting.

--edit

No, the beeb says it is indeed the parlimentary seat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32725167

 

[jimbobsmells]

anecdotally, i've seen racism ranging from casual to overt from people even in my generation (20s/mid-20s), from facebook posts ranting about cbeebies teaching kids urdu words, to just really disliking ethnic minorities and using slurs

Personally I take offence to Rastamouse.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Sorry, that was my assumption from the fact that tweet specifically said "seat"

The actual article is a bit more oblique:

http://news.sky.com/story/1483302/police-investigate-thanet-south-fraud-claims

If they're investigating the council results as opposed to the parlimentary results that'd be very interesting.

--edit

No, the beeb says it is indeed the parlimentary seat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32725167

lol that article is just an excuse for the Beeb to use this picture of Al Murray again

 

[PJV3]

Personally I take offence to Rastamouse.

Not everyone can be in the Rocksteady crew.

 

[Real Hero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9aBoZNI_tY

oh my

 

[tomtom94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9aBoZNI_tY

oh my

There's a Venom joke in here somewhere.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Whelp :-

Not quite sure what to say about 78% in favour of this shit with at least 16% wanting even more restrictions. We need that Kent Brockman "Democracy doesn't work" clip from the Simpsons.

 

[PJV3]

Whelp :-



Not quite sure what to say about 78% in favour of this shit with at least 16% wanting even more restrictions. We need that Kent Brockman "Democracy doesn't work" clip from the Simpsons.

22% are probably extremists.

 

[Tak3n]

Whelp :-



Not quite sure what to say about 78% in favour of this shit with at least 16% wanting even more restrictions. We need that Kent Brockman "Democracy doesn't work" clip from the Simpsons.

because all the public see if extremists spouting hate, protests shutting down cities.... The media always report these things, they wont realise that what they are actually going to ban is anti-establishment stuff

 

[Moosichu]

Whelp :-



Not quite sure what to say about 78% in favour of this shit with at least 16% wanting even more restrictions. We need that Kent Brockman "Democracy doesn't work" clip from the Simpsons.

I was doing some YouGov polls to see their results. A lot of them are of the form "Do you think X?" And then most people will reply "I do think X", despite the fact that a 5 minute google will show X is clearly untrue. 'le sigh'

 

[kmag]

If YouGov said. David Cameron said "we've been a passive tolerant society" but now due to the actions of a small number of individuals we need to curtail freedom of expression and free association(*). What do you think?

They'd get different answers. As it is people see radicalism and extremism and immediately associate any measures curtailing it as a positive.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a push question, but it's close. They've framed it as purely a method of dealing with radicalism which might be the motivation behind the policies (with the Tories and May you can never tell) but the impact will certainly be far wider reaching.

* they could add something about the proposals being illdefined, wide reaching and illiberal. .

 

[Spaghetti]

they're not getting shot left and right indiscriminately, but they're still getting shot

that's actually a very good point, though you could argue the US has several mark duggans daily.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

So the Prince Charles letters which the guardian has fought so long for have finally been published, and they say...pretty much exactly what he already said in public.

 

[PJV3]

So the Prince Charles letters which the guardian has fought so long for have finally been published, and they say...pretty much exactly what he already said in public.

They should have just published them, if they can't be open about mundane stuff like this then we're a pretty sad bunch.

We know he's conservative, he takes an interest in farming, nature etc. I don't know what Grieve is on about.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Anyone seen the evening standard headline? Timing is amazing.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Anyone seen the evening standard headline? Timing is amazing.

What does it say?

 

[JonathanEx]

So the Prince Charles letters which the guardian has fought so long for have finally been published, and they say...pretty much exactly what he already said in public.

It's almost as if the government wasted hundreds of thousands defending this!