It completely depends on what those traditions are and what they represent.
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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
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It completely depends on what those traditions are and what they represent.
Anybody who would vote based on race would never vote for Labour anyway.
They would if The Sun told them to.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Naming rights for government buildings? Awesome idea.
Wonga.com Houses of Parliament.
Sports Direct Scottish Parliament Building
The Liverpool Echo Senedd
PJV3
Member
Well labour are screwed because he's out polling the other candidates on every issue bar intelligence. He's very charismatic according to the chart I just looked at.
Bosch Buckingham palace.
CharmingCharlie
Member
I didn't intend to infer it is just middle England that is racist. In my view pretty much every section of the UK is racist to a certain degree. The difference between the US and UK is that our racism is a bit more "reserved". The reason why I highlighted middle England is because those are the votes that the Labour party need to attract and they aint gonna do it with a mixed race candidate.
I mean come on here we are talking about a country that was put off a candidate because of the way he ate a fucking bacon sandwich and you are trying to tell me that a mixed race candidate wouldn't struggle ?
CyclopsRock
Member
Really?! Labour's traditional core vote - working class men, basically - aren't traditionally paragons of social progress. Tbh "racism" has been a taboo for sufficiently long in this country that anyone can be racist.
Incidentally, though, I don't think there are many countries that have successfully integrated as many different nationalities with as relatively little trouble as the UK has. Generally speaking I think we're a profounding non-racist country. If we aren't, I'd like suggestions on which country has done better.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I noticed people often don't mention Smethwick in 1964...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kplya
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/15/britains-most-racist-election-smethwick-50-years-on
It's a bit of constitutional nightmare as the Scotland Bill which enacted the Scottish Parliament enshrined that all acts of the Scottish Parliament must be compatible with the HRA and ECHR. If the HRA and ECHR is removed from UK law then the Scotland Bill must be amended reflect that and presumably references in the Bill to the ECHR replaced by the Tories gift to Workhouse proprietors.
But the 1998 Sewel Convention states that "Westminster will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters in Scotland without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.” so that'll just be a bunfight if a Tory Government which Scotland by large didn't vote for attempted to force through an unwanted change.
I know, now only the Irish are stopped from going in there!
PJV3
Member
At least the gay were welcome.
Northern Ireland will be the biggest problem for the human rights act. The old one is in the good friday agreement and is an international treaty.
Not sure how the irish in the north will feel about it being a British human rights act.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Now its "white British people in general". Anything to back this up?
Watched that the other month, not a bad documentary. It's crazy to think people who were supporting that sort of thing are still alive today.
Nigel Farage isn't far off of that sort of language in some of his interviews though.
Are you aware of your surroundings? The UK is a very racist country.
RedSparrows
Member
I'm on the left and I like the current building. Shock horror. Not everything is reducible to this binary, it's absurd.
As for the HRA and the British Bill of Rights, the problem is two-fold: one, people wailing before the alternative is presented, and two, quite what state the new Bill would take is anyone's guess, and many people, rightly imo, don't trust the reasons or the intentions behind this change.
RedSparrows
Member
You wouldn't think it had had cross-party support in 1998 either, and on the flipside, you wouldn't think it was used for anything but preventing the government from deporting legions of hook-handed asshats every single day. Hopefully the case for keeping it is strongly made. The issue I have at the moment is not agreeing, or disagreeing, with particular policy, but the atmosphere in which 'discussion' is nearly impossible because the cases are never made equal in terms of prominence and volume. Instead the 'right' are all fascists and the 'left' are all terrorist loving hippies. Utter horseshit.
A failing of the opposition, and a failing of a supposedly fair society, in some respects.
Scousefury
Member
It sad fact that yes England is racist country at its core, people don't like to talk about it but its a fact. Labour may want Chuka Umunna as leader but they will lose votes in hardcore labour areas because his name is Chuka Umunna.
PJV3
Member
He's being touted to fit the narrative of why we failed in 2015.
Labour should pause and think about 2020, he isn't tickling my fancy at all.
Pankratous
Member
Apologies for injecting some humour into a political chat but I came across this on Facebook and can't stop laughing.
CyclopsRock
Member
I agree - and it doesn't help that, basically, both Labour and the Tories in government have demonstrated their less-than-great lack of respect for privacy and individual rights.
Did you know that paedophiles have more DNA in common with crabs than they do with you or I?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Again:
Now we've moved on to "a very racist country" I'm expecting big things.
This line was made even better when Dr Fox himself was arrested for having sex with underage girls.
I cannot accept that this is a 'very racist' country in the slightest. But I am trapped in the London bubble, so what do I know.
Scousefury
Member
So your telling me i should stop smelling my keyboard right?
Well, there's racists in the UK, same as everywhere, but that doesn't make the country racist. There's too many laws dedicated to stopping racism for me to even consider that the country is, as a whole, racist.
PJV3
Member
Oh if he meant at that level then I agree.
But I know a lot of it is simmering, being held down by political correctness gone mad etc.
Compared to when I was growing up the main difference is people know it will get them in the shit very quickly, But it's definitely better.
Thornton Reed
Member
i feel suggestible just reading this
CharmingCharlie
Member
The UK does have substantial laws protecting other races/minorities and promoting equal rights for all. But we are not talking about the law here. There is no law that says you have to vote for a mixed race Prime Minister.
As others have said the main problem with the UK is the "behind the door" racism. People in the UK are not OVERTLY racist. They certainly wouldn't go up to another person and insult them based on the colour of their skin. Nope British racism is "oh hello Mr Nahasapeemapetilon, lovely to see you today nice weather we are having" then when they get home it is "urgh that Nahfjaoifjaljfoidahfhikj bloke, fucking country is going to the dogs, he's probably a terrorist too".
The UK has done a fairly good job of combating out in the open racism. Pretty much anyone with an ounce of sense knows if you are overtly racist to someone that is gonna land you smack bang in the shitter. But once they are in the house and the door is shut all bets are off.
As I said I cannot see huge sections of the UK (not just middle England) voting for a mixed race Prime Minister. Hey I would love to be wrong, I would love the UK to prove me wrong and vote for a mixed race Prime Minister but like I said the voters in this country were put off by a candidate eating a bacon sandwich in an awkward way. So yeah I really cannot see a mixed race candidate blazing a trail to Downing Street.
I loved this, despite the grim subject. It was like satire > life > satire. Almost as good as when the news copied The Day Today.
Hey, the US got Obama, so why can't we have Chuka?
When something goes tits up, we can just shout 'THANKS CHUKA' and we'll be bosom buddies with our American brethren.
i think chuka being so much of an embodiment of london is a bigger issue than his race. if he has the right ideas he can be 'one of the good ones' for many given that he's well spoken and handsome and respectable, but being so much of london city slicker a will be a big cultural difference.
his main problem however is that he is basically just a bit rubbish
his main problem however is that he is basically just a bit rubbish
Yea, of course it is. But, at least we're not as bad as virtually any other major Euro country who are all pretty much worse than us.
But, of course, at our core, we're a racist country. Everything in this country, even in immigrant ladden London is dominated by Caucasians. Too many studies have proven what a disadvantage having a non christian white name in England is.
Society is built around the white upper class man in this country.
UK is headed for the shitter anyway, as things look. Could end up being North Korea of Europe. We're sure to leave the EU, lose our financial centers, lose the union, Scotland will leave eventually, just a matter of time. England on its own, will be a garbage country.
I'm not so sure about that. l agree that the UK is racist, but I'm not convinced that being non-white/non-Anglo Saxon is such a burden. Eastern Europeans are in management positions now and many run their own business: second/third generation Indians and Pakistanis are well established in skilled trades and professions.
There is evidence of upward mobility and perhaps this is what the next Labour leader needs to tap into, with Umunna the personal embodiment of this.
CyclopsRock
Member
For what it's worth, I reckon any "race based" effect on a PMs chances would have more to do with how they sound than how they look. I genuinely think most people would listen to someone that sounds like them and think "that person could represent me" no matter what they look like where as if they're speaking in, say, some kinda south London "English ebonics" or South East Asian accent that idea that "they're just like me" is harder to be sure of. I think this is because it's really more about culture than race.
PJV3
Member
I think Chuka seeming like a slick career politician is going to be his biggest problem. He seems to be polling well, but I don't really know what he stands for. I don't see him facing the lunacy that Obama has to put up with due to race.
Aspirations and fairness, they all say that nowadays.
That's the trick you see, you don't need to stand for anything. As Brooker's Election Wipe on Immigration reportage showed, it's not what you say, it's how you say it and to be fair, we, as the electorate, have been swallowing that down since President Blair took over from Smith in 1995.
What do you want from me? Racism is not socially acceptable enough for me to be able to give you some magical source that proves how racist the country is.
Would you at least agree the country is very xenophobic on a mainstream level?
I still think they should get David Miliband back, I appreciate the current candidates wont be happy, but I can not help feel him not being leader ever got resolved...
under their new election rules he would of romped home, so it is quite ironic his brother change the voting rules once he got the job...... I just feel whoever gets it they will still wish DM was the one, and to be honest I don't thing apart from Dan Jarvis there is anyone who would do anywhere near as good
under their new election rules he would of romped home, so it is quite ironic his brother change the voting rules once he got the job...... I just feel whoever gets it they will still wish DM was the one, and to be honest I don't thing apart from Dan Jarvis there is anyone who would do anywhere near as good
PJV3
Member
Aye, Blair was lucky with all the work on policy that was done prior to his leadership. Or it would have just been a catchphrase about being tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime and a load of dead Iraqis.
if he had not bought in Every Child Matters, and EMA, very very different and for the better
EMA especially was a disgrace, my wife was left having to decide if the students (who were only there for the EMA) deserved it that week, she always complained it was a nightmare, 2 types of students, those who literally only came for the EMA and those who wanted to learn
And if she ever turned one of them down for bad behaviour or lateness it would get nasty, she once had to have security escort her home as the dad turned up threatening her because she would not sign his daughters EMA sheet
PJV3
Member
Ravensmash
Member
I don't think Britain is particularly racist, I think we've made huge strides in recent decades, huge strides.
killer_clank
Member
Hmm, I reckon if John Smith became PM he'd have resigned around 03/04, and we'd have went into Afghanistan but not Iraq. Though there's every possibility Blair would have succeeded John Smith. His govt would have tended a bit more to the left, but I doubt thing s would be that different domestically. Scotland might have gone differently, but it's hard to say.
PJV3
Member
Probably a more measured response to the security situation at home as well. I can't think of a party leader besides maybe Thatcher that would have gone the Iraq route.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Apologies for being out of touch a while. I've been involved in some practical aspects of needlessly complicated 3-dimensional geometry - namely attempting to change the nearside headlamp on a Kia Picanto. Bloody appalling design. I am all mucky and the headlamp still isn't changed.
Oh yeah. I meant to come back to whoever-it-was on this business thing, as we appeared to have an unbridgeable gulf of understanding.
For now, though - because my brain hurts on account of headlamp-changing - I'll just have to mention that while I did say that businesses basically made all the money that there is; I didn't say (and certainly didn't mean to imply either) that it is only business owners or entrepreneurs or investors or indeed only anyone else who generates that money.
This whole Labour postmortem leadership thing seems back-to-front to me. Labour needs to work out what the Labour party is for - and work it out in some detail rather than just handwaving. I thought John Cruddas(?) was supposed to be doing something along these lines for the last few years but I never really heard anything of it.
If the answer is to be exactly like the Conservatives except "caring" more then probably the wrong questions were being asked.
I'm pretty sure that a case could be made for a radical, coherent, progressive leftist agenda. But I haven't seen it being made yet. This work, which should have been done in the last five years, needs to be done in the next five. It's not as if Labour will win the next election (because, amongst other things, what are they going to say in 2020 when the NHS hasn't been destroyed, eh?) so they have time to do some policy-making. Probably need to scrap the NEC first though.
It's pretty pointless trying to select a leader unless they are going to do something like this.
EDIT: In the short term, Labour might as well go into bat as the "English SNP" - it makes at least as much sense as Scottish Labour does, and they've got a decent leader already.
Oh yeah. I meant to come back to whoever-it-was on this business thing, as we appeared to have an unbridgeable gulf of understanding.
For now, though - because my brain hurts on account of headlamp-changing - I'll just have to mention that while I did say that businesses basically made all the money that there is; I didn't say (and certainly didn't mean to imply either) that it is only business owners or entrepreneurs or investors or indeed only anyone else who generates that money.
This whole Labour postmortem leadership thing seems back-to-front to me. Labour needs to work out what the Labour party is for - and work it out in some detail rather than just handwaving. I thought John Cruddas(?) was supposed to be doing something along these lines for the last few years but I never really heard anything of it.
If the answer is to be exactly like the Conservatives except "caring" more then probably the wrong questions were being asked.
I'm pretty sure that a case could be made for a radical, coherent, progressive leftist agenda. But I haven't seen it being made yet. This work, which should have been done in the last five years, needs to be done in the next five. It's not as if Labour will win the next election (because, amongst other things, what are they going to say in 2020 when the NHS hasn't been destroyed, eh?) so they have time to do some policy-making. Probably need to scrap the NEC first though.
It's pretty pointless trying to select a leader unless they are going to do something like this.
EDIT: In the short term, Labour might as well go into bat as the "English SNP" - it makes at least as much sense as Scottish Labour does, and they've got a decent leader already.
Think I'm going to be one of these bad loser lefties that everyone keeps talking about and take a long, long break from politics.
The start of the Labour leadership campaign has only made me feel more and more depressed really. I can't help but feel that all the talk of "aspirational voters" basically just means "make absolutely no effort to tackle inequality". None of the candidates really appeal to me, and to be honest I doubt any of them could win anyway. I could pretty easily see myself not voting in 2020, or maybe putting in an equally pointless vote for the Greens or someone.
Already spent a bit of time unfollowing politicians/journalists on Twitter. It's sort of tempting to join some of the protests like a lot of my friends are keen to, but I doubt they'll change anything. Might campaign in the EU referendum I guess, but probably won't bother.
UK politics now fills me with the same amount of despair that US politics does. Just hope the NHS and the BBC manage to hang around in some form.
The start of the Labour leadership campaign has only made me feel more and more depressed really. I can't help but feel that all the talk of "aspirational voters" basically just means "make absolutely no effort to tackle inequality". None of the candidates really appeal to me, and to be honest I doubt any of them could win anyway. I could pretty easily see myself not voting in 2020, or maybe putting in an equally pointless vote for the Greens or someone.
Already spent a bit of time unfollowing politicians/journalists on Twitter. It's sort of tempting to join some of the protests like a lot of my friends are keen to, but I doubt they'll change anything. Might campaign in the EU referendum I guess, but probably won't bother.
UK politics now fills me with the same amount of despair that US politics does. Just hope the NHS and the BBC manage to hang around in some form.
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