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[Funky Papa]

There was a lot of talk about this issue a couple of days ago, but there were no formal sources so there was no separate thread about it. No need to make a bigger mess and all that. Things have changed, though.

Theresa May warns future of EU citizens living in the UK is uncertain

The Home Secretary, who has emerged as the clear front-runner in the Conservative Party leadership contest following the withdrawal of the former London mayor Boris Johnson, also told ITV’s Peston on Sunday there could be an upsurge in immigration before Britain officially leaves the EU.

And though Ms May said she wanted to “guarantee the position” for EU citizens currently living in the UK and British citizens living in EU countries, she admitted their future was up for negotiation.

“What's important is there will be a negotiation here as to how we deal with that issue of people who are already here and who have established life here and Brits who have established a life in other countries within the European Union.

“The position at the moment is as it has been, there's no change at the moment, but of course we have to factor that into negotiations.”

“As part of the negotiation we will need to look at this question of people who are here in the UK from the EU.”

The Independent's sources go a bit further than that: Theresa May refuses to rule out deportation of EU nationals living in UK amid fears of ‘influx’ of migrants

A source close to Ms May told The Independent: “She [Ms May] was saying it’s unwise to promise right now that all EU nationals living in Britain should be able to stay indefinitely. The reason for that is if we did that the same rights would have to apply to any EU national who comes to Britain before we leave the EU.

“If we made that promise you could just see a huge influx…of EU nationals who would all want to come here while they have that chance.”

The source also made clear that the issue was a “negotiating point”. They added: “It would just be a bad negotiating position because we shouldn’t guarantee the rights of EU nationals without having any guarantees the other way about British nationals living in EU member states."

Contrast this with the EU being open about allowing UK citizens to remain in the EU and some countries going as far as to promise dual nationality for those already living in their territory.

Not only this strikes me as inhumane as hell, but also spectacularly short sighted considering the huge amount of British expats, making playing hardball with inmigrants (quite probably the only card on May's table) an spectacularly flawed strategy.

(2010 figures)

Now, I don't think the EU is even thinking about returning the favour, but this seems like a losing proposition. As I said at a previous post, Spain alone hosts several hundreds of thousands of pensioners, whom could raise all kinds of hell at home if they were to be forcefully returned to the UK (or just degrading their status to "tourists" with all that entails). May is playing with fire.

 

[obin_gam]

Should have thought about that before promoting Brexit.
Lousy person.

 

[Sinfamy]

You're asking for massive civil unrest.
Doubtful.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Should have thought about that before promoting Brexit.
Lousy person.

She didn't. She campaigned to remain in.

 

[obin_gam]

She didn't. She campaigned to remain in.

Ah, that's weird then. Shouldnt party-officials stand behind their party and didnt the conservatives want to leave?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Ah, that's weird then. Shouldnt party-officials stand behind their party and didnt the conservatives want to leave?

The party itself was split. The government - of which May was a part - officially campaigned to remain. That's why the Prime Minister felt he had to resign - he effectively "lost" the referendum.

 

[Bedameister]

The German vice-chancellor already said that he wants young britons that live in Germany to get a dual citizenship.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

This has to be posturing, they can't seriously be thinking about uprooting EU nationals that have lived here for years or even decades.

 

[Acidote]

The EU position here should just be passive and reciprocal:
Let the UK decide on that matter.

If they choose to let EU citizens living there to stay, so be it. And if they decide EU citizens should be deported the EU should do the same with UK citizens. And do it in the most humane way possible to soften the blow to those people (they're not just numbers), but doing it after all.

 

[Funky Papa]

This has to be posturing, they can't seriously be thinking about uprooting EU nationals that have lived here for years or even decades.

It's a bluff and one that should be called out. In no small measure because this senseless talk will only embolden the already frenzied ultranationalist elements (time to call them what they are, really).

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

The German vice-chancellor already said that he wants young britons that live in Germany to get a dual citizenship.

Only young britons? When do they stop beeing young?

 

[d9b]

 

[El-Suave]

If they'd use EU citizens living in Britain as bargaining chips in the negotiations on Brexit, that would be really low. Almost as if you're holding hostages.

 

[El Topo]

The German vice-chancellor already said that he wants young britons that live in Germany to get a dual citizenship.

That guy is trustworthy. He has never ever changed a promised stance on anything ever. Ever. No sir, you can take his word at full value.

 

[Madouu]

I didn't know there were so many Brits living in Spain

 

[justjohn]

Stop fucking calling them expats. They're immigrants in Europe just like everyone else.

 

[KingSnake]

I think EU should not negotiate with terrorists. Because using people as a bargain chip is very close to that, it's a blackmail (and one that can be repeated every time UK wants to negotiate something with EU).

If UK wants to act like hostage takers or nazis, let them.

I don't think EU should adopt the same position as UK, it should try to make the transition as smooth as possible for the UK citizens and the current positions (even offering citizenship in some cases) is the correct one.

What EU should do is to consider this position as UK declining the free movement and thus the offer for UK should not include access to single market, resulting a Turkey like deal.

 

[Keasar]

Goddaym those numbers in Spain, had no idea.

So, basically what could happen is:

http://satwcomic.com/brexit-to-the-right

?

 

[CyclopsRock]

I didn't know there were so many Brits living in Spain

It's a fairly weird combination of older retirees who enjoy the sun and cheap property prices along with seasonal workers in the Costa Del Sol tourist areas (basically from Malaga down to Algeciras on the coast) and then some weird exceptions like people living around Gibraltar who commute over the border every day. Generally speaking, almost all of it is down on the south coast. English is basically the native language there.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Stop fucking calling them expats. They're immigrants in Europe just like everyone else.

Isn't "expat" just a contextual term? - ie British people call British people abroad "expats", Irish people call Irish people abroad "expats" etc.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

The German vice-chancellor already said that he wants young britons that live in Germany to get a dual citizenship.

Afaik its quite hard to get a dual-citizenship nowadays. Especially if you immigrate to Germany at a later date...

 

[iceatcs]

Really curious, is it all British count living there or some are second home?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

It's a bluff and one that should be called out. In no small measure because this senseless talk will only embolden the already frenzied ultranationalist elements (time to call them what they are, really).

My friend's school was on the news last week because their school is 98% ESL (English as second language) and the kids were fucking terrified. She had to send some kids home (she teaches Year 5) because they were crying so much on Friday morning. Apparently they're feeling a bit better but their attitudes have completely changed.

I know May is just bluffing but the Tories and others need to realise that this bullshit hurts people. They're literally making children cry. It's just shameful.

 

[Funky Papa]

Really curious, is it all British count living there or some are second home?

All. It includes workers, students and pensioners (whom in the case of Spain make the brunt of them).

Edit:

I think Spain is for old Britons what Florida is for old people in the US.

Basically. It's a combination of sunny weather and property being cheap-ish for them due to the previously high value of the GBP combined with large-ish pensions, making living in the South and around the med coast comparatively affordable. It's understandable that they are a bit worried about this whole mess.

 

[Bedameister]

I didn't know there were so many Brits living in Spain

I think Spain is for old Britons what Florida is for old people in the US.

 

[trineo_feo]

Really curious, is it all British count living there or some are second home?

There's hundreds of thousands of pensioners living in the Spanish coast. Living for real.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Wow mass deportations confirmed then

Businesses in UK will sure love it when parts of their workforce may just get deported

 

[iceatcs]

There's hundreds of thousands of pensioners living in the Spanish coast. Living for real.

I know, but our family have second homes in France and Spain. And French and Spanish neighbour are British too, they are second homes. I won't be surprise we are counted.

 

[mrklaw]

(2010 figures)

Do we actually have a net migration problem if you take this into account? Any numbers of how many EU nationals live in the UK?


Also this just sounds like the usual party political posturing you get from candidates trying to secure backing from the party. I.e hateful right wing rhetoric. I hope it isn't any more than that. But I'd really like a general election before any button is pushed.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Do we actually have a net migration problem if you take this into account? Any numbers of how many EU nationals live in the UK?


Also this just sounds like the usual party political posturing you get from candidates trying to secure backing from the party. I.e hateful right wing rhetoric. I hope it isn't any more than that. But I'd really like a general election before any button is pushed.

2.2 million to 3.6 so it's around a 1.4m addition. That being said, many of them are young and work hard and many of the 2.2m retired abroad so we've done alright out of it.

 

[gofreak]

I wonder if the position of all those trade negotiators they'll have to import will be up for debate?

 

[kmag]

She didn't. She campaigned to remain in.

Campaigned is a strong word.

 

[CyclopsRock]

2.2 million to 3.6 so it's around a 1.4m addition. That being said, many of them are young and work hard and many of the 2.2m retired abroad so we've done alright out of it.

We have, kinda, but those old people are great for that part of Spain, too. They don't take jobs away from Spanish people, they bouy an otherwise depressed property market, they spend all their money locally and the only real drawback - healthcare - can be directly charged back to the NHS anyway.

Edit:

Campaigned is a strong word.

Maybe, but it's a bit unreasonable to say she "promoted Brexit".

 

[2MF]

2.2 million to 3.6 so it's around a 1.4m addition. That being said, many of them are young and work hard and many of the 2.2m retired abroad so we've done alright out of it.

Plus many of the EU citizens working in the UK got educated in their home countries, and are now contributing to UK companies and tax revenues. The UK government didn't spend a single penny educating me. This is rarely mentioned in the context of immigrants net contribution.

 

[LewieP]

But Boris Johnson said the exact opposite. Surely neither of them would be misleading the public?

 

[danowat]

Another backtrack then?, didn't they say that this wouldn't be an issue before the vote?

 

[KingSnake]

But Boris Johnson said the exact opposite. Surely neither of them would be misleading the public?

Boris Johnson is just a journalist, so his opinion has no influence on UK's decisions.

 

[correojon]

So she is threatening to get rid of the working EU immigrants and replace them with UK pensioners? Has she even thought about what she was saying? UK will surely become a much more competitive country after it has got rid of all the qualified workers and replaced them with people no longer in age to work. Take that EU! :S

 

[ReplacementPelican]

We have, kinda, but those old people are great for that part of Spain, too. They don't take jobs away from Spanish people, they bouy an otherwise depressed property market, they spend all their money locally and the only real drawback - healthcare - can be directly charged back to the NHS anyway.

Plus many of the EU citizens working in the UK got educated in their home countries, and are now contributing to UK companies and tax revenues. The UK government didn't spend a single penny educating me. This is rarely mentioned in the context of immigrants net contribution.

Both great points. I'll miss the freedom of movement if we cut our nose off on the negotiations.

 

[OnkelC]

Do we actually have a net migration problem if you take this into account? Any numbers of how many EU nationals live in the UK?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom

My guess would be that deportations would lead to a massive brain drain.

 

[Zelias]

This is madness. That this is even an option on the table is a nightmare scenario. Urgh. Sad thing is it'll probably boost her popularity among the sections of the voting public that seem determined to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Hopefully the EU responds to this with the contempt it deserves.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

This seems like a perfectly fine bargaining strategy, provided that your end-goal is to burn your bridges and salt the earth behind you.

 

[KonradLaw]

Removing all EU citizens from UK would probably be far more catastrphic to the country's economy than Brexit ever could.

 

[SamVimes]

Removing all EU citizens from UK would probably be far more catastrphic to the country's economy than Brexit ever could.

It's almost like this is what you voted for.

 

[Orbis]

Deportation will not happen, it just won't. It's unworkable, unfair and has very little support politically or publicly.

 

[kadotsu]

As a German I need to get something to put this in perspective. How many cars would they need to buy from us to get enough political leverage to go through with this?

 

[2MF]

Deportation will not happen, it just won't. It's unworkable, unfair and has very little support politically or publicly.

I think some "deportation" could happen, but it wouldn't take the form of British policemen shoving people into planes / trains / buses or whatever mental image comes up with that word.

More likely is that EU immigrants are required to apply for visas and perhaps not all are granted. I'd expect at least people who are working (especially in skilled/knowledge jobs) to get visas though.

 

[SprachBrooks]

She's a vile human being who paid for vans to go around the country warning people of deportations. She also wants to repeal the ECHR and introduce a malleable 'British Bill of Rights' so as to trample on everyone's human rights.

God, what a terrible alternative we have in the party leadership challengers; worse than the Clinton-Trump choice in the presidential elections.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I think some "deportation" could happen, but it wouldn't take the form of British policemen shoving people into planes / trains / buses or whatever mental image comes up with that word.

More likely is that EU immigrants are required to apply for visas and perhaps not all are granted. I'd expect at least people who are working (especially in skilled/knowledge jobs) to get visas though.

That'll almost certainly happen. Afterall, when the UK is no longer in the EU, the fact they're EU citizens won't mean anything so obviously they'll need to apply for Visas. The only question mark is over how many get granted, and whether there's a grace period at the start where all existing residents have them granted without question and for a long period of time.

 

[danthefan]

My dad is English, I'm an EU citizen but I'm entitled to a UK passport. I've never considered it before but I think I'll go ahead and apply for it.