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May warns future of EU citizens in the UK is uncertain, deportations could happen
- Thread starter Funky Papa
- Start date
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What a fucking mess. I can't believe they are actually going to see this vote thru. It's regressive in every single way.
Why aren't there any prominent figures from the big 2 parties coming out and saying Brexit is a disaster in the making? Surely they know it's going to be bad so why are they keeping quiet? Almost feels like there's an element of censorship at play.
Why aren't there any prominent figures from the big 2 parties coming out and saying Brexit is a disaster in the making? Surely they know it's going to be bad so why are they keeping quiet? Almost feels like there's an element of censorship at play.
Because a large percentage of the population think it's a good idea.
I want to believe that more people didn't know what they were voting for, but I'm starting to think that this is actually what 52% of the UK want. It's horrible.
maquiladora
Member
Congratulations on fucking up the lives of so many people Leave voters. This is the hideous right wing future you voted for.
Ha!
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
wait, I thought it legally IS non-binding? It's up to the government to take that L, but it's still possible.
Moral Panic
Member
It's not binding but all the possible prime ministers say that they will follow through with it.
Putyouinmyoven
Member
I don't want a person that talks about completely disrupting people's lives as if it's nothing as our prime minister.
I get that, but everything post-Brexit suggests that leaving the EU is going to be an utter disaster for everyone including the people that voted leave. There are just so many areas of life that will be profoundly affected by us leaving. Yet the folks in politics seem to be obsessed with respecting the vote and "uniting" people. How can they call for unity when 52% voted to go backwards? Are people supposed be united in the destroying the UK or something? These calls for solidarity and unity are pointless. We are literally walking into a disaster.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
This is so silly. Ignoring the obvious humantian issues, being public about this is such a stupid gambit. The type of person who would feel impressed by this kind of "tough talk" is not the type of person to join the conservative party to vote in a leadership election. Likewise, the more centrish MPs in the party, will think twice about voting for her.
When there are so many more British expats than EU migrants, this is like punching a wall to show how angry you are, with your face.
When there are so many more British expats than EU migrants, this is like punching a wall to show how angry you are, with your face.
I don't know whether it's pure disillusion, or they are seeing something that I can't, but a lot of people I talk to, STILL, say that leaving the EU is a good idea.
I don't get it.
CyclopsRock
Member
It's not about sending a message to the members, it's about putting things on the table for A50 negotiations.
Nikodemos
Member
But it's cretinous. They'll say "we intend to expel all EU citizens"; the other members will counter "well, that's unfortunate; we'll offer dual citizenship to British residents, because we like the taxes they pay". Guess who will (figuratively) end up looking like a bunch of drunkards who pissed themselves?
It's painfully stupid. As ThoughtsOfSpeaking very accurately put it, it's like punching a wall in anger with your face.
Camp Freddie
Member
I suspect it's all posturing for domestic support.
Lots of people voted leave, (and lots of Tory members voted leave) in order to get rid of the immigrants.
If May argues for an amnesty, she potentially loses the leadership election. She has to hope that her uncompromising tough-justice "Thatcher Mk2" persona is enough for Leave-voting Tories to vote for her despite her former backing of Remain.
We can't evict the immigrants anyway. Who would do all their jobs?
Merkel's not an idiot and can clearly see it as an unenforceable threat.
At worst, I expect a fudge, whereby we use a points-based-system for giving out visas to existing immigrants (a fair and tough system for leave voters to support), but the points-system is rigged so that everyone qualifies except for a few unskilled fruit pickers who only came over this summer and were going home anyway.
Forced deportations would mean riots on the streets and cause Europe to utterly destroy us in any trade negotiations.
The EU won't retaliate in kind. They'll do the opposite, and welcome the British retirees, students and scientists into their economy. Why would they want to stop young healthy educated people from paying German taxes? Why would they want to stop baby boomers from spending their pensions in Spain?
Lots of people voted leave, (and lots of Tory members voted leave) in order to get rid of the immigrants.
If May argues for an amnesty, she potentially loses the leadership election. She has to hope that her uncompromising tough-justice "Thatcher Mk2" persona is enough for Leave-voting Tories to vote for her despite her former backing of Remain.
We can't evict the immigrants anyway. Who would do all their jobs?
Merkel's not an idiot and can clearly see it as an unenforceable threat.
At worst, I expect a fudge, whereby we use a points-based-system for giving out visas to existing immigrants (a fair and tough system for leave voters to support), but the points-system is rigged so that everyone qualifies except for a few unskilled fruit pickers who only came over this summer and were going home anyway.
Forced deportations would mean riots on the streets and cause Europe to utterly destroy us in any trade negotiations.
The EU won't retaliate in kind. They'll do the opposite, and welcome the British retirees, students and scientists into their economy. Why would they want to stop young healthy educated people from paying German taxes? Why would they want to stop baby boomers from spending their pensions in Spain?
CadetMahoney
Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residency
I'd be Hitler-level surprised if she's talking about kicking out anyone out who has "permanent residency", "indefinite leave to remain" etc. after the fact.
KarneeKarnay
Member
It won't happen. She is an idiot.
/Thread.
/Thread.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I voted for Leave, but I've got to say I'm not at all happy with this approach. The right thing to do is to reassure everyone here now that they won't be forced out. I assumed that would be the case before the referendum, as the alternative just seemed unthinkable.
OriginalThinking
Member
Absolutely disgusting. If we see forced repatriation then I anticipate riots on the street.
inoperativ
Member
Not to be rude, but the campaign for the option you voted for literally used a poster that could be directly compared to Third Reich propaganda. It made constant use of dog-whistle phrases like "ordinary, common people" and "hard working British people" . I really don't understand how this is in any way surprising.
Why on earth would you make such an assumption?!? Did you not know what you were voting for?
QuicheFontaine
Member
You're not being rude, don't worry about that!
There's a huge difference between changing the UK's immigration system and forcing people already here onto planes and boats. I thought I was voting for the former. This was never on the table!
ClosingADoor
Member
You voted to end free movement, but didn't think that would mean people that made use of that now could lose their right to it? How....
ultratruman
Banned
England is a toilet full of racists and I feel sickened to be associated with it.
QuicheFontaine
Member
This was never on the table! In no debate, or press release, or piece of campaign literature was "forced repatriation" mentioned!
KarneeKarnay
Member
Whoa!!!! Mister Generalisation. Maybe take a second to consider that this politician that is running to replace the PM until a general election, is not the be all and end all of all English opinion.
Idiots will often get more press in times like this. Hell the news studios search them out. May won't win, because she doesn't have the support of her population and even if she were, she won't last the next general election.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Co Children of Men's immigrant and refugee camps are becoming a thing, I guess.
ClosingADoor
Member
I believe you on that. But seeing as the Leave movement had a lot to do with immigration and people taking British jobs, it was kind of clear to me that at least some in the campaign wanted those people to leave if possible.
Still doubt it would go through however. Too much trouble doing that and it would create a serious mess in a lot of workplaces if people are just forced out, making it a large hit on the economy also.
Not getting at you, but I think a lot of people were looking at this like a GE where you have manifesto commitments which while aren't binding represent a desired path forward. In this you had two sides (one side in particular) throwing out "nice to haves" and "wouldn't it be greats" without any notion, concept or seeming expectation of delivery.
Without any framework we're left with a kludge of a mess with no clear way forward.
The UK would also be a net loser if it came to pass. It can't be said enough as a group EU migrants are net contributors (they're normally working, normally young and healthy and most of them don't have UK dependents). While say Spain probably benefits from UK immigrant pensioners (mainly due to reciprocal healthcare arrangements), the UK would be a loser if you took out those working migrants and replaced them with retirees.
ultratruman
Banned
Nah I'm sorry, there's no excuse. Despite being one of the wealthiest and most literate countries in the world, England's dark heart elected this government and voted to isolate itself and ostracise those who have come to live here.
Feel free to show me where forced repatriation was ruled out during any of the Leave campaigns vague statements about reducing immigration.
Englebert3rd
Unconfirmed Member
Heh, it was heavily implied. While it wasn't in the arguments, it was a massive elephant in the room.
I'm Italian and I live in London, this stuff scares me because anything can happen.
QuicheFontaine
Member
You know I can't do that.
But regarding the "reducing immigration" bit I really don't think it was unreasonable to think the people already here would be allowed to stay. Reducing immigration doesn't imply deportation. That's like me saying I'm going to go on a diet, but really I was talking about throwing up all my meals.
Anyway, maybe I look like kind of a naive idiot right now, I dunno. As one of the few (admitted) Leavers on Gaf I feel the need to make it clear that this kind of talk really shocks and angers me, and it was not what I wanted at all.
ultratruman
Banned
You've always looked like a naive idiot about this issue, sorry.
inoperativ
Member
The problems with voting for a campaign that is heavily based on xenophobia, regardless of your own reasons for supporting that side, are that it:
1. Normalises such language in the public space and gives racists the impression that they have a democratic mandate to attack the "other"
2. Gives politicians an incentive to continue using such tactics and even escalate their rhetoric to outdo others, since they don't get punished by decent people refusing to vote for them and automatically pick up a bunch of votes from the racist minority
3. Scares the shit out of the people who are targeted by their rhetoric, even if they never intend to do anything beyond just using it to win votes
(And I'm sure you can come up with more...)
In this case I suspect TM is saying this to pick up votes from the right wing of the party and has no intention to actually follow through, but note how she's nevertheless already escalated the rhetoric from the Leave campaign, as you point out yourself.
Actually about 30% of the electorate did.
So you voted for a vague anti immigrant sentiment without any concrete plan?
Sounds like you got exactly what you asked for.
OriginalThinking
Member
It's fucking outrageous and disgusting that it's even up for discussion. It very likely won't happen but the fact it's being used to play politics I find absolutely vile.
I can't remember any sort of plan being on the table. That's probably why Boris and Nigel have done one.
I absolutely believe you Quiche - but at the same time am also doing the 'told you so' dance. This is what I meant when arguing that if you have to stand by racists and bigots to win an election, you can't pretend that has consequences.
Leave won off the back of immigration and 'taking back control'. Whilst they might not have explicitly said it, I certainly got the impression they would be looking at people already here - and we know from the racist and hate crime attacks that have occurred since that a lot of Leave supporters think that deportation is on the table.
Had Leave come out and said 'no-one here today will be deported' I suspect the result would have been different.
Leave won off the back of immigration and 'taking back control'. Whilst they might not have explicitly said it, I certainly got the impression they would be looking at people already here - and we know from the racist and hate crime attacks that have occurred since that a lot of Leave supporters think that deportation is on the table.
Had Leave come out and said 'no-one here today will be deported' I suspect the result would have been different.
ultratruman
Banned
Conservatives received 37% of the popular vote, with the highest proportional vote in 330 constituencies around the UK. England chose this, there is no way round it.
I think we're going to see a lot of "I thought I was voting for..." excuses over the next few years.
Pro-tip - throughout history, whenever leaders have used (or been associated with) populist, xenophobic campaign rhetoric with vague promises of making things "better", they're nutters who will, at best, have no effect, or at worst, will do some very nasty damage to real people.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Sadly, you went and stood by the people that wanted exactly this, though obviously for different reasons.
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