Is there a database that explains any of this? Most of what I know about the game is from the fact that I used to play the battletech board game and design my own mechs using a free program in the 90s.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
MechWarrior Online - News and Information Thread
- Thread starter Orayn
- Start date
Is there a database that explains any of this? Most of what I know about the game is from the fact that I used to play the battletech board game and design my own mechs using a free program in the 90s.
Star with the wiki: http://mwowiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
And then there are PGI's introduction videos. EDIT can't find link to them... EDIT2 Youtube ofc: http://www.youtube.com/user/mechwarrioronline?feature=g-high-u
And here's ECM page: http://mwowiki.org/wiki/Electronic_Countermeasure_(ECM)
EDIT and here's the online mechlab: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/27...s-engines-pilot-lab-images-pdfs-excel-inside/
No equipment descriptions there, but most of the weapon and chassis stats can be found.
8 million C-bills amassed. Still need 3 million more... Catapult 5.5 million, XL engine 4.2 million, DHS 1.5 million, plus other stuff...
EDIT Awesome and Cataphract are awful. At least the trial ones. Awesome is so wide you could strip all of its non-CT armor and still it would die from CT breach. And that trial Cataphract, it is wide, its CT has too little armor and its awfully equipped.
EDIT Awesome and Cataphract are awful. At least the trial ones. Awesome is so wide you could strip all of its non-CT armor and still it would die from CT breach. And that trial Cataphract, it is wide, its CT has too little armor and its awfully equipped.
Every single one... My priorities are acceleration, deceleration and turning. Also cooling ones.
BTW, one of the cooling perks doesn't work at the moment, IIRC. No idea which one.
I am a newb but I like the cataphract. Maneuverable for its size, heavy armor, with less than amazing firepower. I think it makes a good brawler.
I do the latter. I get bored playing with the same thing for a long time. Don't find the perks to be truly essential.
Too big CT for my taste. At least by default it has way too little armor. Also needs more speed. I'm sure it is fine after customization but without, it sucks. Well, most mechs do...
If you enjoy the light play style, then go either the Raven 3L or Commando 2D. You could also do the Spider 3D, but it's just inferior. The raven will cost around 11.5million to fully build out.
Otherwise, if you like to brawl, a hunch 4SP is a pretty good mech that's cheap enough to build with the cadet bonus money.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=22&l=c5f72ccc7286bf517c3c51fc34a9f48230b21650
7 million cbills, good damage, good speed, good survivability.
This game really needs Team Death Match (without respawns).
Assault's annyoing, people go capture a base but capping is pointless because it doesn't reward C-Bills and XP rewards are neiglible too. Also, 8 players means you can't have enough defendeders AND attackers, Assault would have to be 12vs12 to work properly. Along with maps twice the current size at least.
Assault's annyoing, people go capture a base but capping is pointless because it doesn't reward C-Bills and XP rewards are neiglible too. Also, 8 players means you can't have enough defendeders AND attackers, Assault would have to be 12vs12 to work properly. Along with maps twice the current size at least.
ThreePiMatt
Member
The base cap is there to keep one-sided games from dragging out. One light mech could easily run away and hide and drag out a game to the full 15 minutes.
Well, then limit the matches to 12 or 10 minutes. Average length is way under that as it is anyway. And if hiding is a problem, add a surrender option (ejecting), some people will surely take it, and if that's not enough, make the capture area appear near the end/after certain amount of enemies has been destroyed.
Now the mode is just silly, i've had a match which ends in capture withing 3 minutes, with zero damage done by either side.
ThreePiMatt
Member
I've had matches go like that too, but I've also had matches go the full 15 minutes with no complete cap or wipeout of the other team.
That has never happened for me. Haven't had a match longer than 10 minutes, IIRC.
EDIT again, these fools went to capture enemy base, even though we had a superior team and destruction of the enemy should have been easy.
EDIT and now a match ended with cap race. We killed a couple of them, they went to cap, we went to cap and we lost. Now, don't get me wrong, that is a legit strategy but it is frustrating and stupid. At least factor in the kills, the side with more kills/damage done wins, capturing just ends match.
EDIT again, these fools went to capture enemy base, even though we had a superior team and destruction of the enemy should have been easy.
EDIT and now a match ended with cap race. We killed a couple of them, they went to cap, we went to cap and we lost. Now, don't get me wrong, that is a legit strategy but it is frustrating and stupid. At least factor in the kills, the side with more kills/damage done wins, capturing just ends match.
Thanks, I think I'll play around with the trial ones a bit more before I decide. Might enjoy a battle mech more now that I'm getting used to the controls.
Use it as if it were AC5, use the double fire by pressing fire again after firing one shot. Chance to jam if double fired. So, be careful with it.
Also, what can i do about ECM lights? Other than quit match because my team mates can't/won't do anything about them? Catapult can't carry ECM so i can't use it to counter theirs and use my streaks (LRM boat primarily).
Think of Ultra Autocannons as.. cannons. Just faster.
Don't think of them as machine guns. Because that'll jam them.
i.e. check that you're going to hit the target before you click on each shot. There's no spraying and praying.
SUBZERO-08
Member
It's 25%. Got bumped up from the previous 10% jam rate it was previously at.
Sigh... It will take foreever before Orion is added to the game (July probably, unless they up the new mechs to 2 per month, in which case it will take until April probably at least). And need to wait till March for JagerMech.
Want a Heavy with with (at least) mostly symmetrical looks and at least somewhat symmetrical weapon layout, not like Dragon which loses its main weapon way too easily.
I got bored with Mediums, how quickly they die under fire even with near max armor, decided i want both firepower and armor over speed.
Not a fan of Assaults, those are simply too slow. Or need prohibitetly large engine. Never been a fan of Stalker, Awesome sucks (too wide), and Atlas... well, expensive and slow, and ugly.
Catapult's fine but it is not very dynamic mech. K2... well, i like PPCs but it is still a Catapult. Would like something else for change.
And yes, i get bored playing with one mech very quick.
I remember in Mechwarrior 4 (and Mercs) changing my mech nearly every mission, just for change's sake.
Want a Heavy with with (at least) mostly symmetrical looks and at least somewhat symmetrical weapon layout, not like Dragon which loses its main weapon way too easily.
I got bored with Mediums, how quickly they die under fire even with near max armor, decided i want both firepower and armor over speed.
Not a fan of Assaults, those are simply too slow. Or need prohibitetly large engine. Never been a fan of Stalker, Awesome sucks (too wide), and Atlas... well, expensive and slow, and ugly.
Catapult's fine but it is not very dynamic mech. K2... well, i like PPCs but it is still a Catapult. Would like something else for change.
And yes, i get bored playing with one mech very quick.
I remember in Mechwarrior 4 (and Mercs) changing my mech nearly every mission, just for change's sake.
In your avatar... are those tiny alien hands on the side of his face rubbing his eyes because he cries so much?
michaelius
Banned
Orion will have same speed as K2 since both are using 4/6 engines as basic setup.
For fucks sake, can't unsee. Guess i'll have to switch from that to something else. It is a Flood from Halo 4 by the way.
64kph is okay speed. I said i realized i value firepower and armor over speed. K2's problem is its large CT (as do all Catapults) and its lack of missile hardpoints, you make make it energy or ballistic platform, or a weak mix of those two but it won't be very interesting either way. Need missile hardpoints too... to give myself long range capability or additional short range punch.
Now, Orion, that's considerably better than Catapult-K2, more dynamic: I reckon the basic model, ON1-K, will have 2 of each hardpoints, same as Centurion but better arranged (can't disable its main gun as easily) along with heavier armor. And looks good too. Mini-Atlas, Orion is called.
Oddly enough.. i'm fine with boating ballistics or missiles but i detest energy boating. I guess it has something to do with cooling issues?
I've seen some of you folks play before on MWO. I've played quite a bit since early January. "No Style" is the MWO name.
I own a Hunchback 4J and just bought a Raven 3L.
Let's see hear some of your opinions on these:
LRM missile boats are useless
I've noticed most LRM missile boats are useless on the battlefield thanks to ECM or a competent pilot. ECM is so prolific nowadays and most maps have plenty of cover to hide behind. If you want to be a long range threat, be a Gauss or ER PPC sniper.
Light Mechs w/o ECM & speed <120 KM/H is useless
I spectated many lights in action and went up against my fair share. Raven pilots are top tier which I suspect is due to the fact that it's one of the early viable lights. I have so much respect for a Raven 3L pilot because of how I was lit up by them early in my MWO career.
I noticed that any light worth its mettle is sporting ECM and running at 120 KM/H or higher. They usually sting quick & buzz away when there's an inkling of danger. Anything slower just gets taken out too easily.
Highly specialized death machines
I'm infatuated with Dual Guass, Dual AC/20 or quad PPC setups but I didn't want to throw money down the drain just yet. How are people finding these setups? Fairing well? Poor life choice?
I own a Hunchback 4J and just bought a Raven 3L.
Let's see hear some of your opinions on these:
LRM missile boats are useless
I've noticed most LRM missile boats are useless on the battlefield thanks to ECM or a competent pilot. ECM is so prolific nowadays and most maps have plenty of cover to hide behind. If you want to be a long range threat, be a Gauss or ER PPC sniper.
Light Mechs w/o ECM & speed <120 KM/H is useless
I spectated many lights in action and went up against my fair share. Raven pilots are top tier which I suspect is due to the fact that it's one of the early viable lights. I have so much respect for a Raven 3L pilot because of how I was lit up by them early in my MWO career.
I noticed that any light worth its mettle is sporting ECM and running at 120 KM/H or higher. They usually sting quick & buzz away when there's an inkling of danger. Anything slower just gets taken out too easily.
Highly specialized death machines
I'm infatuated with Dual Guass, Dual AC/20 or quad PPC setups but I didn't want to throw money down the drain just yet. How are people finding these setups? Fairing well? Poor life choice?
BattleMonkey
Member
Yea my founders CAT feels like more of a waste than ever now because of ECM
Missiles work just fine as long as your team has someone providing ECCM.
Unfortunately the matchmaking is really bad. It doesn't always makes sure matches are 8v8. It doesn't rematch if someone disconnects before match starts. It doesn't check mech tonnages and equipment, indeed one side can have 4 ECM and the other zero.
Also, medium mechs are kinda pointless. Fast lights with ECM are good. Assaults and heavies, assuming they are not built sub-optimally are good. Mediums, even well done just can compete with others. I jumped to top of my team nearly always after moving to Catapult, i gain much more XP per match, i gain more money due to damage done, with more kills and equal amount of assists as before.
Definetly not worth paying for yet.. i'll hold on my Premium time till they fix the ECM at very least. And implement Role Warfare proper. And make CASE more useful. Along with many other things.
That said... *presses Launch* The base gameplay is good.
Unfortunately the matchmaking is really bad. It doesn't always makes sure matches are 8v8. It doesn't rematch if someone disconnects before match starts. It doesn't check mech tonnages and equipment, indeed one side can have 4 ECM and the other zero.
Also, medium mechs are kinda pointless. Fast lights with ECM are good. Assaults and heavies, assuming they are not built sub-optimally are good. Mediums, even well done just can compete with others. I jumped to top of my team nearly always after moving to Catapult, i gain much more XP per match, i gain more money due to damage done, with more kills and equal amount of assists as before.
Definetly not worth paying for yet.. i'll hold on my Premium time till they fix the ECM at very least. And implement Role Warfare proper. And make CASE more useful. Along with many other things.
That said... *presses Launch* The base gameplay is good.
TAG is nearly useless. ECM shrouded targets take some 4-5 seconds to lock on with missiles, even with BAP (whihc doesn't seem to be stacking with TAG). I've yet to see someone truly hold a TAG on target that long, let alone for our missiles to reach target while still TAGged.
It is no counter to ECM really.
Neither are modules, or PPC EMP effects (next patch), despite Piranha thinking rock-paper-scissors as balance...
EDIT oh and ECM as it is is like Stealth Armor/Null-Signature/void Signature system...
It is no counter to ECM really.
Neither are modules, or PPC EMP effects (next patch), despite Piranha thinking rock-paper-scissors as balance...
EDIT oh and ECM as it is is like Stealth Armor/Null-Signature/void Signature system...
BattleMonkey
Member
They wanted to follow the table top game, but ECM was never so crazy powerful in the original game. They need to tone it down.
Course lights weren't so hard to kill in the table top either, they can take a decent amount of punishment in the game, while in the table top 2-3 good hits and they often were crippled.
Course lights weren't so hard to kill in the table top either, they can take a decent amount of punishment in the game, while in the table top 2-3 good hits and they often were crippled.
I'm looking to upgrade but I still like my Hunchback. Usually in the top 3 in XP and damage output is in the high 200s - low 300s. I wouldn't call it pointless because they can surprise a lot of heavies with their punch or outwit lights by being able to keep up.
I couldn't find a heavy or Assault that I liked so I decided to buy a Raven 3L instead. My favorite heavy is the Timber Wolf which won't see the light of day anytime soon :/
Both myself and the people I play with have used TAG and LRMs to great effect.
I doesn't counteract ECM completely, but the reality is, ECM *isn't* literally everywhere. You can find openings, and TAG is the device that helps leverage those openings properly.
If you think LRM boats are useless, it's because you don't know how to play a LRM boat.
It's funny, because I was just reading the MWO forums (which I think you'd like; they like to QQ too), someone was complaining about how skill-less LRM boating was as well; as if they were god mode.
No; the skill isn't in aiming (although with TAG it is to an extent), the skill is in positioning and maintaining the appropriate distance and awareness; attacking and softening up targets is the point of the LRM boat. It's role differs from direct fire mechs - and despite ECM, it's still quite useful and successful in that role.
ECMs are the correct meta-counter against LRMs; prior to them LRMs were everywhere and utterly devastating... and prior to that, they were playing around with several variables including damage and speed... but it always ended up with low-skill players boating LRMs, because it's stupid easy to just click and launch if you don't have to move around to get a good target, opening and angle of fire with LRMs.
With Catapult, assuming my team mates can get rid of the enemy ECM, can do 400+ damage easily. More than any medium i piloted could. Of course if the ECM can't be dealth with, i'm worthless... but that applies to ALL missiles and missile boats. The system needs some tweaking, make doing damage less important for gaining C-bills and XP. Scouting and other assisting activities should be possible and worth more as well.
Oh and that damn cookie-cutter Raven 3L build everyone's using? It does more damage than mediums do. Assuming competent pilot of course... not that you need much skill with ECM protecting you and non-Streak weapons doing very little damage to lights due to 120kph+ speed.
As much as i like mediums, i don't see much point in them, when lights and heavies can do pretty much anything they can do but better.
And unfortunately i can't see that changing in the future. It is inherent problem in them... if repair costs were in, they'd be more useful, cheaper to maintain. But that wouldn't be enough.
Note that i'm playing purely with random people, not having enough people in my friend list (1 entry) for a group (and probably not grouping up anyway until the game has in-built voice communication system that actually works... not bothering with external software for casual gaming). And considering how common this is going to be, randoms with randoms, the game balance should take this into account.
I'm not saying LRM boats are useless. I think ECM is too powerful. I know how things are without ECM, with LRM boats in play. I was the only LRM boat in one match, enemies didn't have ECM: I did ridiculous amounts of damage.
The problem is, the moment ECM enters the play, the LRMs (boated or not) become absolutely worthless (at least against those protected by ECM).
TAG might work with pre-mades but with randoms as i play, it is pointless, it does not work as proper counter to ECM.
How ECM should work: Make long range detection more difficult and reducing the range detection can happen, allowing people covered by it approach until they're in optimal weapon range.
What it shouldn't do: Create an impenetrable stealth bubble.
With how i suggest the ECM should be, LRMs wouldn't work at long range without a spotter. At mid range lock-on time would be slower and the enemies would be withing firing range but LRMs would be still viable weapons, though more of support weapons as they should be.
Friendlies wandering into enemy ECM couldn't target enemies, be cut-off from comms (well, canonically anyway, in-game no effect) and radar sharing (very big thing), which probably kills them. Bringing a disruptive bubble to enemy formation would be very useful.
This would give use for ECM, TAG and LRMs, and if the LRMs were a bit too powerful afterwards, they could have their damage reduced slightly (1.8 per missile to 1.5 per missile?) along with heat increase or something like that. Or ECM can be made a bit more effective. But it should't simply make one third of the game's weapons kind of pointless just by existing, just reduce their effectiveness in certain situations.
Bring a team with TAG/ECM and you will rain fire and death upon your enemies, while also being provided close-range assistance by your teammates if you ever get flanked. Nick and me rarely bring LRMs, but when we do we make sure the other is a TAG/ECM fast mech, and that makes for a very destructive combo.
A LRM pugger is useless, though, yes.
3L pilots do well because the implemented ECM made their SSRM-carrying unstoppable while countering enemy SSRM, on TOP of lagshield + no-collision. All those made them harder to target from direct fire, while immune to homing weapons. That's why you had ravens running straight through enemy lines with impunity. Since they mostly fixed the lagshields, I find ravens pretty easy to kill.
Non-ECM jenners are still extremely destructive, especially as close-range support against heavier mechs. And they can still hold their own against ECM mechs, since lagshield fix makes them hittable now. One game last night, we ended up with 4 jenners (by chance), and went against 3 ravens 3L + 1 jenner. We massacred them because they were uncoordinated and just relied on ECM to win as many PUGers unfortunately do. Only their jenner survived the onslaught because we cap-won before he died. We only lost one jenner, because Zaptruder teamkilled him 'by accident'.
But yeah, lights shouldn't be going <120. You can have the Centurion-D going at that speed. The dragon can go 107 with speed tweak. Both will carry more firepower than a light. I can see the cicada being effective in the 110-120 range, while carrying powerful ballistics for its size.
I don't like boating single weapons in general. Some of them are pretty cheese builds, like the 6 SRM6 cats. But they're easy to use so people use them to get easy damage. Gaussapult (which was extremely popular back in the day) are now ticking timebombs, but they're still very effective sniper builds. AC20 is very destructive close-range if they get the jump on an unsuspecting target. Quad PPC can be a good sniping build, though the heat is likely to become a problem (less so with the upcoming patch) - but cycling through them fast could make effective constant sniper fire.
They also all have weaknesses that can make them easily neutered by a coordinated team. SRM cats can lose an ear pretty fast and be at half-strength, where it becomes more or less a sitting duck. AC20x2 also an alarm bell for everyone to get out of range and snipe him off. Gaussapult is just asking for a stomping, and then the gauss will blow up in the cat's face (though, in this case, it's somewhat less of a weakness, since the cat probably has an XL anyway, and its sidetorsos are somewhat harder to hit). Quad PPC is even worse in that regard, given the minimum range. Any mech in brawling range will make short work of it. You can put 1 or 2 ERPPC, but the heat will become even more of a problem.
Specialized builds can be very destructive, but unless you have teammates to cover your weaknesses, you're better off playing a more general build that can react to multiple situations when pugging.
i've been on a hiatus for a little over four months, and after spending the past week refamiliarizing myself with the game, i'm fairly happy with its current state even if it's still far from living up to their ambitious promises. i'd love to get in on any GAF pug action, if there is such a thing or even just have a two or three man squad with any one of you. my username in MWO is TEEPO or you could find me on steam. i'm a fairly decent Jenner pilot.
ECMs do need some balancing, and probably so do LRMs. Having an overpowered weapon countered by an overpowered countermeasure just makes two things overpowered.
The fact that ECMs counter ECMs is horrible balance design as well. Even using rock, paper, scissors as game design you never make the paper the effective counter of paper and there be no scissors.
I would suggest that they decrease LRM tracking, ie they have a hard time hitting fast targets moving perpendicular to the missile. For ECMs reduce effectiveness the closer you get or make the bubble much much smaller and have them be targettable on just one Mech outside the bubble.
And the translation from table top rules to gamer skill level in targetting is a big problem with light mechs. Most players can't keep a laser on target for the entire duration, like the tabletop rules make it. Nor are they great at leading a 120 speed mech with SRMs. (And this isn't just a "get better newb" problem, as the mechanics of torso twist and turning speed actively work against the player in sustained reticle on target time.) So the armor on light mechs seems like they have more armor than a heavy. People die in brawls much quicker in an atlas than a Jenner, and that is not how battletech is designed to play out.
The fact that ECMs counter ECMs is horrible balance design as well. Even using rock, paper, scissors as game design you never make the paper the effective counter of paper and there be no scissors.
I would suggest that they decrease LRM tracking, ie they have a hard time hitting fast targets moving perpendicular to the missile. For ECMs reduce effectiveness the closer you get or make the bubble much much smaller and have them be targettable on just one Mech outside the bubble.
And the translation from table top rules to gamer skill level in targetting is a big problem with light mechs. Most players can't keep a laser on target for the entire duration, like the tabletop rules make it. Nor are they great at leading a 120 speed mech with SRMs. (And this isn't just a "get better newb" problem, as the mechanics of torso twist and turning speed actively work against the player in sustained reticle on target time.) So the armor on light mechs seems like they have more armor than a heavy. People die in brawls much quicker in an atlas than a Jenner, and that is not how battletech is designed to play out.
BattleMonkey
Member
ECM in the tabletop was never that great. Like AMS, it should not be the end all solution, but all together it should add up to a good defense. Right now you can skip AMS and just let the ECM protect you, as right now it's already killed amount of missiles used, most players are dumping lrms. AMS used to be important to take, but now I almost never have missiles coming at me since everyone is sick of ECM making them feel useless.
February dev update: http://mwomercs.com/news/2013/02/601-2013-february-developer-update
Stuff we get this month:
-Trenchbucket
-New map
-UI changes
-Better performance, especially on lower end systems
And other stuff.
Stuff we get this month:
-Trenchbucket
-New map
-UI changes
-Better performance, especially on lower end systems
And other stuff.
More sim. The learning curve is unnecessarily steep due to the lack of surface level info. I suggest you watch these Training videos first.
Learning curve is a brick wall.
Unfortunately newbies are triply disadvantaged;
Far inferior mechs
Don't have access to adequate group communication
Far less experienced
So you pretty much have to go in with the mindset that while you learn, you should expect to not get kills and lose a lot of matches. Any wins and any kills are a total bonus.
Having said that, once you get a handle on mech control basic weapon and heat handling, jump into a PUG voice server like the comstar one
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/60477-unofficial-community-run-voice-chat-servers/
The game is a far more enjoyable experience when you can chat to people and coordinate movement and attacks with. It's also how the dev's intended the game to be played.
Once you get a hang of things, and have a decent mech (it doesn't take that much time to properly kit one mech out), then the game starts to really shine.
Yeah, jeez, I didn't appreciate just how new-user unfriendly the game was still I tried to help a complete battletech noobie through his first through games last night.
I was able to step straight into the game due to my experience with previous mechwarrior games, but for anyone coming in fresh it's a huge front-loaded knowledge learning curve.
I was able to step straight into the game due to my experience with previous mechwarrior games, but for anyone coming in fresh it's a huge front-loaded knowledge learning curve.
Trebuchet is sometimes jokingly called Trenchbucket. Indeed, this is referrenced in Piranha's MWO concept art for Trebuchet... (Look at left shoulder)