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[Giolon]

Actually the prices are not in line with the TT, XL engines are considerably cheaper, and bigger mechs are also cheaper. Much less steep price curve. Which is why i asked, can't trust Sarna prices to work with this game.
EDIT actually, never mind the mech size but the XL engines are cheaper than in the TT. I think people calculated that somewhere...
EDIT "and XL engines cost about 2.66x more than their standard counterparts" In the TT they're 5 times the price.

Component prices aren't the same, but overall total price of the mechs has been in line for anything I've looked up in the past 2 years. They're not exactly the same down to the c-bill, but they've been in the same ballpark. The Kit Fox reflects that, so I'm expecting the rest of the clans to.

 

[Woorloog]

Ah but the base mech prices consist component prices + chassis price which depends on tonnage and type only. And since XLs cost just over half what they cost in the TT, all heavier Clan mechs are likely to be cheaper than they're in the TT.
Though... i have to admit i'm not sure how the Kit Fox costs the normal then...

EDIT uh, the Kit Fox Prime costs in the TT 5.3 million... so it is actually more expensive in MWO. OK... that doesn't make any sense.

EDIT OK, whatever. I can't figure this out. I'm going to assume Sarna prices and plan accordingly as that seems to be good idea... Except for Kit Fox which is more expensive. Argh, 18 million in 24h... OK there will be sale, let's say 15%, so perhaps, what, 15 million?

 

[Giolon]

Even 5.3 mil to 6 mil is only off by about 10%. I consider that close enough to be "in line". Some mechs are closer, some maybe a little further. But I've yet to see anything come out anything like double or half of the liisted Sarna price. It's just a guideline that's not failed me yet.

What I think is going to be interesting is when Community Warfare finally gets in place (hah!), PGI said at the launch event last year that they were going to have dynamic pricing. If your faction owns a planet that makes a certain mech, it'll be cheaper. If you belong to faction B and only faction A makes a mech, you have to buy it on the black market and it'll be much more expensive.

I wonder how or if they'll prevent faction hopping to get all the best deals.

 

[K.Jack]

So i core this guy fast. Twin ERLL plus twin AC5, a few shots destroys even an Atlas, especially when is damaged already and doesn't move.
What does the guy do? Claims i'm a hacker because he got that frozen screen glitch.
Absolutely hilarious how sore losers try to justify their loss!

Anyway. Any idea how much Kit Foxes are going to cost in C-Bills? I assume they're going to be around 5 million, without the sale there will be tomorrow. I wonder how much C-Bills i need to stock up today...

Also, went back to Quickdraws due to C-Bill sale on them. They're just... fun. I don't know why but they appeal to me, despite being somewhat medicore mechs due to their size and low tonnage and uninteresting hardpoints (unlike Jagers or Catas).

Funnily enough, I'm leveling the Quickdraws right now. I bought the IV-Four in the 50% off sale, then the QKD-5K shortly after, and I picked up the 4H yesterday in this Steiner. So I need to basic the 5K and 4H right now. They are fun mechs, if you throw a big engine in there. Fortunately I have an XL330 and XL340 from buying Cicadas in the last sale. I have yet to buy an XL straight up, because the prices are just so hard to swallow.

But I tend to gravitate to mechs that are anti-meta and non-viable. Trebs, Kintaros, QKDs, Orions, etc.

 

[Woorloog]

I like anti-meta in general too. Mediums, odd heavies, CQC or generalist loadouts.
My Firebrand is probably rather meta, it is basically an optimized/upgraded Rifleman... and it is very, very good.

My Quickdraws are H and G, will buy K later. H i have Basiced already, G i intent to keep due to its quirks making it, IMO, better than H (i don't use that many missiles so the extra HP is waste for me).

EDIT running with 300XL though, fast enough but also allows max armor with relatively good firepower. Will use XL360 for the K.

 

[K.Jack]

I like anti-meta in general too. Mediums, odd heavies, CQC or generalist loadouts.
My Firebrand is probably rather meta, it is basically an optimized/upgraded Rifleman... and it is very, very good.

My Quickdraws are H and G, will buy K later. H i have Basiced already, G i intent to keep due to its quirks making it, IMO, better than H (i don't use that many missiles so the extra HP is waste for me).

EDIT running with 300XL though, fast enough but also allows max armor with relatively good firepower. Will use XL360 for the K.

Oh crap, when I was deciding between G and H for my third, I didn't even notice the +33.3% arm quirks. That does make it better, but I don't know if I can stomach investing price of mech + DHS + Endo in a fourth QKD.

Dammit I will now make it a point to look at that 'Quirks' section.

I also used the sale to pick us the Jager S, since it'll be my 3rd Jager, and I really want to elite the Firebrand. The FB is objectively the best Jagermech, with the high mounted energy points.

You guys can add me, if you want. ID is Kevjack

 

[Giolon]

Dammit I will now make it a point to look at that 'Quirks' section.

The Quirks section is only working for the IS mechs that got updated last patch (Hunchback, Awesome, Centurion, Dragon) and the Clan mechs. All the light mechs have a +5% leg internal structure that you'll see too. For the rest of mechs quirks, you still have to refer to something like Smurfy: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#mechs_quirks

 

[Woorloog]

I calculated i need at least 11 million by tomorrow's Kit Fox sale, assuming 35% sale (generous sale), or 15 if just 15% sale (basing this on the fact the MC sales for new Clan mechs have been 15%).
Aiming for 15 million to be on the safe side.... ugh. Still need something like 7 million. I can sell an unnecessary XL200 engine that came with Grid Iron, but i run Hunchies with STD200 or STD250, mediums really need the extra survivability IMO and so the engine is pretty much useless for me. Unless Vindicators may make use of it, though i suspect they will need a standard like all other mediums, at least as long as i'm driving them....

 

[K.Jack]

Here's a Smurfy of my QKD-4H. Usually get 300-500 damage and a couple kills. I'm really falling in love with this mech. Seriously, is there a better looking mech in MWO tgan this:

re: Mediums with XLs, I can't run a medium that isn't moving moving over 90kph. Speed gives me more survivability than a STD engine. At 100kph you can get out of sticky situations and duck around corners at will.

I totally understand running the STD in the Hunchie though, as that hunch screams SHOOT ME FIRST.

 

[Woorloog]

Speed doesn't seem to be saving me even in lights, smart playing does. And firepower.

I'm not a fan of XLs in mechs lighter than heavies, they simply don't have enough armor, the Quickdraw just about does with armor maxed (400/402) (Quickdraw's legs are so enormous they draw attention and require a lot of armor). Indeed pretty much every heavy i have piloted has had an XL engine (Jagermech, Catapult, Thunderbolt, Quickdraw), though i probably wouldn't use an XL with a Cataphract if i had one.

I should note that i'm something of a brawler. I can snipe but i prefer close-to-medium range combat. Yet at the same time, i'm a generalist, i prefer having at least one long range weapon (my Quickdraw has LRM10, my Thunderbolt had LRM and ERLL, and so on). My Firebrand is pretty much and exception to this given its sniper-centric weapons but i take it to close combat quite often (and do relatively well there). My Oxide is oddly dual-purposed, it has both LRM5s and SRM4s.

In lights, XL is a must to get enough speed but even then i don't like them really, though both Ravens and Jenners have relatively large CT so XL is not that big an issue.

Of course, the mediums i like and use(d) are the Centurion and Hunchback, the former is a zombie with wide side torsos, the latter... well, it has a highly visible target on its shoulder (though ironically everyone shoots my left shoulder first when i play with my Grid Iron). My Blackjack worked with XL once i figured out how to play with it: Long range, snipe with AC2s. And even then it was rather slow (for you) since it was merely XL225 (AC2s are heavy).

I wonder and worry about the Vindicator... I worry it will be either too big overall (it should be about the size of a Blackjack i think) or has wide torso, both cases would make it unsuitable, IMO, for an XL.
And upping its speed (because Vindicator is really slow for a medium even for me) to 81kph, with standard engine is not really viable, Endo-Steel doesn't free up much weight for it,
Most of all, i worry it will look terrible. I happen to like Vindicator as it is a Capellan mech, and a generalist.

EDIT by the send me an friend request if you want, Empyrus in game. Unless i have you already in my friend list, can't remember. Also probably have timezone conflicts... but whatever.

 

[Woorloog]

Summoner Flash sale is on. 15% off MC price.
Interestingly it was bugged for a moment and they were available for C-bills too... at 15 million a mech. NOT 21,320,834 C-bills it costs according to Sarna. Still way more than even IS assaults.

Also apparently i had read the schedule wrong, there is no C-bill sale for Kit Foxes, they're just available now.
Guess i need some more cash then...

 

[Giolon]

Summoner Flash sale is on. 15% off MC price.
Interestingly it was bugged for a moment and they were available for C-bills too... at 15 million a mech. NOT 21,320,834 C-bills it costs according to Sarna. Still way more than even IS assaults.

Also apparently i had read the schedule wrong, there is no C-bill sale for Kit Foxes, they're just available now.
Guess i need some more cash then...

Interesting. That's by far the largest discrepancy. Maybe Sarna won't hold true as a ballpark any longer.

In any case, since all non-Hero mechs are sold at a C-bill to MC conversion ratio of 2500:1 (rounded up to the nearest 5 MC), we can calculate the Summoner C-bill price now that we know their MC prices.

SMN-PRIME: 5630 MC = 14,075, 500 C-bills
SMN-B: 5550 MC = 13,875,000 C-bills
SMN-D: 5385 MC = 13,462,500 C-bills

 

[Woorloog]

Well the Summoner sure wouldn't be worth 20+ million no matter how you put it. Even with buffed quirks it wouldn't be good enough, i think. Still needs better quirks to be competitive with the Timber Wolf, i think.

 

[Giolon]

Well the Summoner sure wouldn't be worth 20+ million no matter how you put it. Even with buffed quirks it wouldn't be good enough, i think. Still needs better quirks to be competitive with the Timber Wolf, i think.

Yeah, its big problem is too much of its weight and crit slots are taken up by fixed jump jets.

 

[Woorloog]

Yeah, it's big problem is too much of its weight and crit slots are taken up by fixed jump jets.

NO NO NO! They're not an issue, they give it character, something special.
The issue is Timber Wolf S, which allows JJs for it and and it can do everything the Summoner can do.
Naturally they won't remove the S model... so they should buff the Summoner (well, ignoring the IS/Clan balance issue) to be competitive, better jumping, stronger legs, and given its low hardpoint numbers, faster ROF and better cooldown. Or something like that.

 

[Phades]

Timberwolf is going to be top of its class mainly because it isn't hamstrung in the fixed internals and ferro instead of endosteel allocation. This would be in addition to the inherent 75 ton sweet spot for fittings and the natrual min/maxed engine preset.

Tertiary things like number of hardpoints and distribution of them are important, but wouldn't be enough to compensate. Much like how front loaded damage is king, that particular chassis will also be king of its class. This is basically the poster child for the counter point made for fixed loadouts not causing problems in terms of customization. Players will just simply self bias to the most optimized option available.

There are bigger fish to fry in the game than this particular parity issue though unfortunately.

 

[Woorloog]

Ok, you can't make the Summoner really equal to the Timber Wolf, and that's not really the point either (they have 5 ton mass difference after all), but currently it really doesn't look that hot, not even when compared to Inner Sphere mechs. I figure that giving it some more quirks, or better quirks, would make it at least somewhat decent.
A lot of the mechs in this game are really worse than others. The Locust is pretty bad, the Quickdraw and Thunderbolt don't really offer anything over the other heavy options, and whatever else. The Awesome looks decent now that it gained some buffs... so why not give some to the Summoner? EDIT and also to the countless other weak mechs.

 

[K.Jack]

Been leveling my Summoner Prime today. The low slung arms suck but I've found success with a build of 4 medium lasers and a UAC20 mounted high in the right torso (which requires a D omnipod). It is objectively worse than the Timber Wolf, but it's also less of an easy mode, which attracts me to it.

btw I bought the Clan pack weeks ago, not just buying the Summoner for MC today.

 

[Woorloog]

The Kit Fox is wonderful! It took me a few games to understand how to use it but once i got it... it is so good! Feels great.
It has paper-thin armor and it is slow but whatever, it is great! Been using stock Prime and S though i reconfigured Prime as Kit Fox A (2CERML, Gauss 2 ton ammo) for now, just to try it out.
I like how it is a light mech with the weapons loadout of a medium... savage little thing.

EDIT Found this from the MWO forums: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH1_8u0F7cY
UrbanSpider...

 

[K.Jack]

You should run an ECM on every Kit Fox imo. And the three AMS if they tickle your fancy.

 

[Nete]

I see the Kit Fox (and probably the Adder) more as a medium mech with the armor (and size) of a light. You can carry a shit-ton of weapons, but is vulnerable as hell.

That said, is an interesting mech as it forces you to play differently to the other lights (and, usually, it also forces you to actually support your teammates. Yay on pugs). For now I've only tested energy boats, being 2xLPL and 2xMG the build I've felt more comfortable with so far. Good damage at all distances, manageable heat and some dakkacrits for fun.

I dropped all the AMS after some games. Is just too heavy for this thing (the ammo runs out freakingly fast with multiple AMS), and the ECM is usually enough.


On the Clan mechs prices, somebody calculated them time ago using a similar breakdown than PGI's. With the Kit Fox its 2 C-Bills off in two variants (a bit more with the Prime), so seems pretty accurate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wuLLHLxputlAyH0zABtLYC0xN-mdfTa8Oo9fIsTRoSQ/edit#gid=0

 

[Woorloog]

You should run an ECM on every Kit Fox imo. And the three AMS if they tickle your fancy.

Playing with an ECM is too meta, don't like that. I also see it as a crutch of sorts, i need to learn how to play with the mech first, because running with the ECM affects one's playing (quite possibility negatively). And i have done well without an ECM so far.
Besides, i like having a big gun (and CERPPCs don't count because they were nerfed to the ground), can't have that with the C arm, unless torso mounted but the Kit Fox has limited side-torso space and i prefer the flexibility of arm-mounted weapons. Unless they will add C's left arm (which would have two ballistic hardpoints)... which i doubt because i reckon PGI is just too scared of an ECM+ballistic combo.

Anyway, i noticed the Kit Fox being available caused a lot more people to use lights, Kit Foxes of course, and there's more ECM around too. Not everyone needs it. Both teams having one would be nice, but that should be a matchmaking thing: equal amounts, or lack of, ECM for both sides.
Having both ECM and triple AMS is kind of unnecessary. Not utterly redundant but not that useful.

That said, i think i will install ECM and the C arm for my Kit Fox S, once i get around planning a loadout for it.

EDIT I've tried some of the canon loadouts only so far for the Kit Fox. Funny thing is, they're all OK, if not optimal. In the tabletop, they're pretty terrible some things aside, because the mech doesn't have enough armor or speed to make use of its firepower. In MWO, with doubled armor, the standard configurations are actually OK. Also suit me, because they're often generalist things in nature...

 

[Phades]

Besides, i like having a big gun (and CERPPCs don't count because they were nerfed to the ground)

Eh? They are back to beta values for projectile speed. They got buffed to the heavens becuase they couldn't figure out the netcode and were compensating in the wrong place for it.

 

[Woorloog]

Eh? They are back to beta values for projectile speed. They got buffed to the heavens becuase they couldn't figure out the netcode and were compensating in the wrong place for it.

Yeah, well, i can't hit anything with the PPC anymore. Nor do i see people using them either.
And honestly, i've never been a fan of PPCs anyway.

 

[Phades]

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if more of the ballistic style weapons were dialed back closer to their beta values.

 

[Woorloog]

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if more of the ballistic style weapons were dialed back closer to their beta values.

That would be pretty shitty way to balance the game really. Constant nerfs... of course, it is not like they're doing good job in the first place...

 

[Phades]

The thing is, hit registration has always been the issue. Also remember the maps were signifigantly smaller than alpine and they were having those issues then.

They just made a buff, when instead they needed a fix. Just look at the history of what missiles have done over the years. Does this surprise you in the slightest?

 

[K.Jack]

Dammit I'm going to have to buy these. Hero releases on the 19th.

I swear the art department are the ones keeping MWO alive.

 

[Giolon]

Can we get a quote on that image please? It's huge.

 

[K.Jack]

Can we get a quote on that image please? It's huge.

I had Chrome snapped to on side, made the image look 500x500. Read you post then made the browser fullscreen and was like WHOA. Sorry!

Can't wait to see how pay2lose the hero is, but I'm on my knees for us to get the ECM variant.

 

[Woorloog]

The Vindicator looks great. Now let's hope it isn't too big, like the Quickdraw, Shadowhawk, Griffin and Trebuchet, or wide as the Centurion (it is considerably less wide in the concept art).

ECM. I don't like playing with it. Played a few games with Kit Fox S with C-arm and ECM... and it makes me careless, or i hang too much behind without contributing anything but ECM cover and this means i don't get XP or C-bills either (and i really need those right now).
No ECM forces me to think more, be more careful. I trust ECM too much if i use it... a flaw i will try to correct but still...

EDIT i do better with an ECM Raven, but then i use its speed and ECM for NARC hit-and-run attacks, the Kit Fox lacks speed for that (i tried).

EDIT ECM Vindicator Hero? That would be kind of neat...

 

[Giolon]

The Vindicator artwork does look awesome as usual, but sometimes the translation to in-game leaves a bit to be desired - see Centurion.

I don't foresee PGI adding any more ECM mechs to the game any time soon. Even the clans only got a Light mech capable of ECM.

While I dislike the PPC speed change, it's undeniably helped the game (along w/ the JJ nerf and recent fix for SRM hit registration) and brought average combat range in significantly and allowed more matches to turn into downright nasty brawls instead of the cover-peaking sniping fest it had been for well over a year now.

The gameplay feels like it's in a better state than it was even 2-3 months ago.

 

[Woorloog]

I guess it takes time for people to adjust to the slower PPC speed? I haven't seen any in use for a couple of days now.

I think the LRMs could use shorter range, say 800 meters. Also slightly less steep angle of attack. Or perhaps the latter would suffice. Again, to reduce the engagement range. Of course, the Clans have significant range advantage... but this LRM change should apply to them too.
BTW, the LRM range in the tabletop game is mere 660 meters or so.

 

[K.Jack]

I'm running two ERPPCs in the right torso of my Quickdraw 5K. I only did it because I've been avoiding getting good with PPCs, until I started playing more seriously a month ago. So I never really got much experience with them before the velocity nerf.

I find them easy to use, when you get used to how much you have to lead targets moving at different speeds. Now I wish I'd tried them before, as they must've been easy as hell to use when they were 100s of meters per second faster. Stupid me.

 

[Woorloog]

Oh, they were powerful and relatively easy to hit with. I didn't like them back then either but at least i found them usable.
Now... well, not. I think it is just me though, i could probably adjust to the speed change given that i can hit others with AC20 (of course it has much, much shorter range), but since i don't like them, i don't really see much point in that.
Yet, that is. Once the Summoner is available for C-bills, i will need to learn the CERPPC... the Thor Prime's lightning is the PPC after all...

BTW, am i insane to run the Kit Foxes (and other Clan mechs, once available) with stock loadouts? (Or tabletop alt configs like A and B, Gauss and UAC10 respectively as their main weapons.)
I do oddly well with those... though i guess many Clan stock mechs are considerably better than IS stock mechs given that they have XLs and DHS always, and weak weapon loadouts can be compensated with pure firepower and range.

 

[K.Jack]

BTW, am i insane to run the Kit Foxes (and other Clan mechs, once available) with stock loadouts? (Or tabletop alt configs like A and B, Gauss and UAC10 respectively as their main weapons.)
I do oddly well with those... though i guess many Clan stock mechs are considerably better than IS stock mechs given that they have XLs and DHS always, and weak weapon loadouts can be compensated with pure firepower and range.

Nah, a lot of the clan's stock loadouts are really strong.

I've run the Timber Wolf in stock config and can rack up 5 kills with ease. But that mech feels like I've enabled god mode at times. It's going to be gross for non-payers, when they cost 20+ million a piece. The grind was my main reason for buying the Clan Pack.

edit: try out this Kit Fox build. Jut had my best Fox match with that. Couple kills too.

 

[Woorloog]

Nah, a lot of the clan's stock loadouts are really strong.

I've run the Timber Wolf in stock config and can rack up 5 kills with ease. But that mech feels like I've enabled god mode at times. It's going to be gross for non-payers, when they cost 20+ million a piece. The grind was my main reason for buying the Clan Pack.

The Timber Wolf Prime is not a fair comparison, it is one of the best mechs in the Battletech, be it the tabletop or computer games. It is fast, heavily armored, good firepower. Its only issue is pretty much the limited LRM ammo, i think.

It ain't going to cost 20+ million (canonical price is around 25 million if i recall correctly). The Summoner is supposed to be 21 million or so, but in the game (as revealed by MC prices and a glitch) is about 15 million. Given that the Timber Wolf is mere 5 tons heavier, it ain't going to cost much more despite the Endo-Steel and more equipment. Perhaps 18 million? Still expensive, of course.

Personally i don't find there much point in buying the Clan packs... if all the mechs you gained had 30% C-bill/XP bonus (ie they'd be heroes like the Collection Primes are), they might be worth it. Pretty sure you only get one Prime per type of mech and the rest are basic types, as general rule buying normal mechs for MC/real money is not wise.
The paints and other stuff increase the pack's value of course, but i don't care about them at all, not bothering with visual customization.
These, and the fact i don't really see this game being worth any more of my money, i paid $30 for the Founder Veteran pack but given how the game has turned out, i'm regretting that (not regretting the tier itself, none of the Founder's mechs appealed to me). My premium time is still there unused... (If the game were in a state where i could see myself playing everyday for a month, i would activate it.)

If they get their shit together, release CW that works, with all "modules" (seriously, they're just releasing part of the thing at first), get the balancing to some reasonable state (the Clans must feel different from the IS but not be too much better really, the ECM must be overhauled, etc.), add more maps and modes, i might spend some more money on this later. But i don't think that will happen anytime soon.
Guess this is pretty good game for a free game though, and this is relatively fun despite all the issues, which is more than i can say about many other games these days.
And this isn't really "pay to win", so that's an added bonus, this requires enough skill that advanced equipment, heroes and stuff doesn't win this alone, or confer a big advantage either. Unless we define "pay to win" to include in-game money (C-bills)

EDIT Kit Fox build. Torso ballistic... uh, not a fan, not unless it is AC20 like the Hunchback has.... Might try it out though.

 

[K.Jack]

The Timber Wolf Prime is not a fair comparison, it is one of the best mechs in the Battletech, be it the tabletop or computer games. It is fast, heavily armored, good firepower. Its only issue is pretty much the limited LRM ammo, i think.

It ain't going to cost 20+ million (canonical price is around 25 million if i recall correctly). The Summoner is supposed to be 21 million or so, but in the game (as revealed by MC prices and a glitch) is about 15 million. Given that the Timber Wolf is mere 5 tons heavier, it ain't going to cost much more despite the Endo-Steel and more equipment. Perhaps 18 million? Still expensive, of course.

Personally i don't find there much point in buying the Clan packs... if all the mechs you gained had 30% C-bill/XP bonus (ie they'd be heroes like the Collection Primes are), they might be worth it. Pretty sure you only get one Prime per type of mech and the rest are basic types, as general rule buying normal mechs for MC/real money is not wise.
The paints and other stuff increase the pack's value of course, but i don't care about them at all, not bothering with visual customization.
These, and the fact i don't really see this game being worth any more of my money, i paid $30 for the Founder Veteran pack but given how the game has turned out, i'm regretting that (not regretting the tier itself, none of the Founder's mechs appealed to me). My premium time is still there unused... (If the game were in a state where i could see myself playing everyday for a month, i would activate it.)

If they get their shit together, release CW that works, with all "modules" (seriously, they're just releasing part of the thing at first), get the balancing to some reasonable state (the Clans must feel different from the IS but not be too much better really, the ECM must be overhauled, etc.), add more maps and modes, i might spend some more money on this later. But i don't think that will happen anytime soon.
Guess this is pretty good game for a free game though, and this is relatively fun despite all the issues, which is more than i can say about many other games these days.
And this isn't really "pay to win", so that's an added bonus, this requires enough skill that advanced equipment, heroes and stuff doesn't win this alone, or confer a big advantage either. Unless we define "pay to win" to include in-game money (C-bills)

EDIT Kit Fox build. Torso ballistic... uh, not a fan, not unless it is AC20 like the Hunchback has.... Might try it out though.

I feel your reasons for not buying it. It's the only game I play daily right now, so spending real disposable income didn't bother me much.

Due to the omnipod system, I've been unlocking elite tier then selling the non Prime(I) models, which sell for tons of c-bills (Summoner with all omnis removed but feet and head sells for 5,156,564 c-bills). Suddenly I have 34 million to use on Inner Sphere mechs, and still haven't sold the Novas, Foxes, Summoners, .Dires or Warhawks. So it was worth it for me. Plus I got all of the ultra-trollish Warhorns and the highly useful modules.

Mechs and equipment sell for exactly 50%, right? I just kitted out a Warhawk in the Prime config, and the total sell price came up to 7,720,665. Does that mean it will cost exactly 1,545,330 on release?

Also, the Kit Fox build I posted was missing a ML in the left arm. Correct build. I wasn't sure about the torso LBX either, but in practice it's amazing, because you can peak up over hills and hit people without them even seeing you. The Fox is so small that it doesn't stick up more than an inch, and the ECM makes it so that they don't see you. Just had a 3 kill match. The LBX is great for crits, and your alpha strike will finish any exposed component quickly. Playing the Fox is definitely teaching me about positioning and survivability.

 

[Giolon]

Mechs and equipment sell for exactly 50%, right? I just kitted out a Warhawk in the Prime config, and the total sell price came up to 7,720,665. Does that mean it will cost exactly 15,453,300 on release?

Likely not, b/c the sell price doesn't take into account the value of the Double Heatsink or structure "upgrades" that are sort incorporated into the cost of buying IS mechs that have them, so I assume some of that is baked into the Clan Mech cost as well.

An example here, my KFX-S that I haven't modified sells for 1,777,633, but the purchase price for one is 5,848,129, so I only get back about a 30% value from selling that mech.

 

[Nete]

For the second Kit Fox I really wanted to create a Splatfox, but after testing with both regular SRM and Streaks, I just don't feel comfortable with it. The mech is too squishy *and* slow to be a decent striker. The extra range on the SSRMs helps a bit, but at the same time are less reliable due the need to lock-on the target (and the extra exposure time to do that unless you have a spotter).

After several tests, I ended mixing the missile idea with my beloved Large Pulse Laser, and I must say I really like it. This little shit can bring some serious pain.

I guess I will try a ballistic build for the third variant once I buy it.

EDIT: Wrong link lol. So many tabs.

 

[Woorloog]

Individual items are sold at 50% price but mechs themselves, even ignoring upgrades sold at 33% price at most, like Giolon suggested.

The Kit Fox works best when you appear non-threatening, when the enemies focus on others, very good for team shooting. I reckon a Splat Fox works just fine.

I noticed i found myself liking Streaks... with Clan Mechs. With IS mechs, i just can't stand Streaks, pretty much none of my mechs ever made any use of them. A Catapult C4 i had used them as secondary weapon along with medium lasers for close combat but even then i wasn't a fan of them. I reckon it has to do with the size, firing just a couple of missiles doesn't feel useful, unlike firing 4 or more.

Of course, overall the Clan mechs have so very great feel. The HUD, the sounds... and with missiles, those high-tech blue rocket exhausts and streaming launch systems (while perhaps less effective than the IS's clustered missiles, the Clan version just looks cooler). I actually thought i wouldn't like CUACs due to those firing sounds (a bit too sharp and high pitched) but the burst firing weapon feels so good the sound doesn't really feel out of the place.
I gotta grant this to PGI, they managed to distinguish the Clans from the IS wonderfully when it comes to feeling.
The only thing i miss are the green medium lasers, if only the Clan mediums were slightly greenish instead of pure yellow...

 

[K.Jack]

Individual items are sold at 50% price but mechs themselves, even ignoring upgrades sold at 33% price at most, like Giolon suggested.

The Kit Fox works best when you appear non-threatening, when the enemies focus on others, very good for team shooting. I reckon a Splat Fox works just fine.

I noticed i found myself liking Streaks... with Clan Mechs. With IS mechs, i just can't stand Streaks, pretty much none of my mechs ever made any use of them. A Catapult C4 i had used them as secondary weapon along with medium lasers for close combat but even then i wasn't a fan of them. I reckon it has to do with the size, firing just a couple of missiles doesn't feel useful, unlike firing 4 or more.

Of course, overall the Clan mechs have so very great feel. The HUD, the sounds... and with missiles, those high-tech blue rocket exhausts and streaming launch systems (while perhaps less effective than the IS's clustered missiles, the Clan version just looks cooler). I actually thought i wouldn't like CUACs due to those firing sounds (a bit too sharp and high pitched) but the burst firing weapon feels so good the sound doesn't really feel out of the place.
I gotta grant this to PGI, they managed to distinguish the Clans from the IS wonderfully when it comes to feeling.
The only thing i miss are the green medium lasers, if only the Clan mediums were slightly greenish instead of pure yellow...

Like UACs? Wait until you get to try this Summoner I run, which has 4x ERML in the arms, and a high mounted UAC20 in the right torso.

 

[Woorloog]

Like UACs? Wait until you get to try this Summoner I run, which has 4x ERML in the arms, and a high mounted UAC20 in the right torso.

I'm not a fan of UACs but i thought i wouldn't like the Clan versions at all due to their snappy sound... but it wasn't so bad after all.
I like Clan UACs more than the IS UAC5 for sure, i never could make any good use of UAC5.
I think i'll be using more LB-X ACs though, always had a soft spot for shotguns, and the bigger the better. Too bad one can't fit 4 LB 20-X ACs for Dire Wolf...

Here is what i'm trying with Kit Fox right now actually:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=177&l=1e43b994e4b5702d76713f7fb68ec0bc6f64ae73
ECM, 2xCERSL, 2xCUAC2, 4xJJs (i considered using less of them but i'm too much of a purist to accept using less than 3 JJs, and without symmetry 3 is not an option...).
Not much ammo though. Also not liking the torso mounts for the ACs but i guess they are useful. (So far, the only mech where i like torso mounted ballistics is the Hunchback.)

EDIT i should get rid of the JJs as i don't use them really. Of course then i should get rid of S legs... but not really keen on wasting money for pods i don't really need.

 

[K.Jack]

I'm not a fan of UACs but i thought i wouldn't like the Clan versions at all due to their snappy sound... but it wasn't so bad after all.
I like Clan UACs more than the IS UAC5 for sure, i never could make any good use of UAC5.
I think i'll be using more LB-X ACs though, always had a soft spot for shotguns, and the bigger the better. Too bad one can't fit 4 LB 20-X ACs for Dire Wolf...

Here is what i'm trying with Kit Fox right now actually:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=177&l=1e43b994e4b5702d76713f7fb68ec0bc6f64ae73
ECM, 2xCERSL, 2xCUAC2, 4xJJs (i considered using less of them but i'm too much of a purist to accept using less than 3 JJs, and without symmetry 3 is not an option...).
Not much ammo though. Also not liking the torso mounts for the ACs but i guess they are useful. (So far, the only mech where i like torso mounted ballistics is the Hunchback.)

EDIT i should get rid of the JJs as i don't use them really. Of course then i should get rid of S legs... but not really keen on wasting money for pods i don't really need.

With what they've done to jump jet strength, taking less than three seems like a waste anyway.

I'm not sure the Kit Fox is for me.I don't yet grasp how to engage in the thing, so I end up either being the thankless ECM and finish the match with 100 dmg, or I over extend and do 200 dmg before dying a sad little fox death. I'm not giving up butt I'm taking a break. But maybe I'll try your UAC2 build first.

edit: wow I don't know if I could live with that little armor

 

[Woorloog]

The Kit Fox is probably one of the hardest mechs to use in the whole game. The Locust, Commando, Spider and Jenner are fast strikers, and in that role, they all are pretty effective, the Raven is premier scout and ECM support, the Adder seems to be powerful fire support. Hell, the Locust works in its role quite well in skilled hands though i admit there are better options.
The Kit Fox? It lacks speed to replicate the striker role, even a lowly Locusts is better at that. Nor does it really have speed for scouting either, despite the ability to mount an ECM, which may be an detriment as it makes it a high priority target. Its low slung weapons make it a weak sniper. It is weak, though mere 1.5 tons of armor is enough to maximize its protection, this is taken from the nice 16 ton pod space, and given the mech's short comings, it needs everything it can have for weapons to make most out of the chassis, i think. It does have ECM and jump jets but leveraging those in combat is not easy.
One thing to note is that as long as you don't mount energy-heavy loadout but a mixed one, the mech runs relatively cool even without additional heat sinks. It can fire quite a lot, and it still has quite good mobility to get to cover to cool down.

All these make it a very challenging to use... one i find very, very appealing. I like being an underdog i guess, the extra challenge. Makes victory so much sweeter.

For me, the ideal playstyle is a generalist fire support. Mixed weapons loadout, such as Prime or alt config B, ability to engage at variety of ranges. Move with others, target their targets. I often make the mistake of attracting attention, i am and always will be something of a lone wolf... But when i don't screw up, the mech works pretty well as it has rather high firepower for its size.
Interestingly the mech seems to work pretty well in close quarters combat, in general melee. It seems people prioritize heavier targets in such fights, and that's were light mech with high firepower shines. As long as you can avoid getting shot and avoid attracting too much attention.

As for the low armor, that doesn't really bother me. It is not like maxed out armor would offer much more protection. I reckon the Kit Fox needs a kind of savage mentality, a berserk mentality, if used for combat. Hit hard, dodge as much as you can and hit again, being aggressive and deadly is the best defense.
Guess it could be a support player's mech, with TAG; ECM, and some missiles for fire support, a role where the weak armor doesn't matter that much either.

Jump jets: One jump jet still allows fast turns, if you can do that. I can't do it well enough for it to be any use, too risky for me. Besides, as i said, mounting less than 3 JJs offends my purist-sensibilities, pretty sure 3 is the least amount of JJs any mech in the Battletech mounts.

EDIT I write way too much. I should analyze these somewhere where there are more readers, not GAF, pretty sure we don't have even a ten players here. Of course the alternatives would be Mechspecs (registered, post some but only little), where i would face some competition by more dedicated players with numbers and stuff (and possibly a bit more meta-oriented attitude), or the official forums... and my opinion about any game's official forums is that they're the worst place to talk about the game.

 

[king picollo]

I drop in and out, i tend to play for a few weeks and get burnt out because there's not enough change in the game.

I also never buy anything for mc so just have to grind c-bills. Which isn't that fun.

I also find the lack of team communication a drag to what is essentially a team game. The closest comparison i can make is trying to play Last Titan Standing on Titanfall. I have lots of friends who play that game and when we play LTS, the difference chat makes is enormous.

 

[K.Jack]

Hopefully they actually implement that VOIP someday. That it isn't in already is quite astonishing. The game would get better in an instant.

The Kit Fox is probably one of the hardest mechs to use in the whole game.

-snip-

Yeah that''s some good advice.

Once I finish this Marik challenge (100 kill assists here I come!), I'll get back to the Fox.

 

[Phades]

They "tried" with that C3 program, but that was just... bad.

They have/had NGNG channel in TS be offical for a while in addition to another one (i dont recall offhand) where people could PUG and use voice chat. Just use teamspeak really.

 

[Woorloog]

I've noticed that many internal VOIP systems are not favored. Pretty much everyone uses TeamSpeak, Mumble, or whatever else, even if given competent (better than MWO's) VOIP. At least, that's my experience with various games.
I suspect PC players are somewhat more averse to talking with randoms (that is, random randoms, as opposed to pre-arranged randoms like guilds/clans) over VOIP than console players. I may be wrong though, i just wouldn't be surprised given the popularity of various VOIP programs.

 

[Giolon]

Yeah, on PC, most gamers who use voice chat aren't going to use whatever's built in, no matter how good it is. Even Blizzard tried for World of Warcraft, and everybody still just used TS (plus their implementation did kind of suck).

What *could* help is a command wheel that has audio callouts. It's been helpful in some games and horribly abused and spammed in others.